Hot Resale At The Golden Tulip - Foreign Quota

[KingMidas]

On 5/4/2017 at 10:24 PM, Saigonscot said:

Ok, did you use a solicitor for that? If so could you pls give me the details?

I understand Drew Noyes is available.

[Swinga]

How much does it cost to paint a wall and move a crane to keep the sales coming in?

[kent hansen]

any update. Do the workers work now on the project?

[striderman]

13 minutes ago, kent hansen said:

any update. Do the workers work now on the project?

well they were on the gable end again yesterday when i went by.................

 

 

but while the site looks a lot cleaner and there are workers about it's such a big project i don't think right now there are enough of them

[Swinga]

why paint 1 wall, when half the joint needa finishing? Scam

Sent from my SM-C5000 using Tapatalk

[Saigonscot]

On 20/05/2017 at 12:03, striderman said:

well they were on the gable end again yesterday when i went by.................

 

 

but while the site looks a lot cleaner and there are workers about it's such a big project i don't think right now there are enough of them

Thanks for the update.

[burren]

maintenance at 50 baht is expensive

maintenance in my condo is a rip off 

[Halfaboy]

Would this mean 50 Baht / m2 / month ?

Ask for a detailed budget and cost overview and you can judge....

Have fun !

[chris2004]

Yes 50 is a lot, double my condo and 10x that in View Talay 1&2.

[Scuba+]

Try 45 baht per sqm per month across the road
At least golden tulip or should we say grand avenue will have separate pool & areas for condo buyers which will be apart from the hotel complex unlike it's sister complex across the road being the centara avenue which shares the pool & as yet to be built gym with hotel guests who have more power in what goes on then condo owners themselves
We are yet to get a chanote despite numerous promises & a deadline of 4th quarter 2015 . We are yet to get a gym or roof top gardens & we are yet to have a body corporate meeting where we have any say in anything

Still no word of chanotes for you? What do they say?

[SLEUTH]

On 2017-4-6 at 2:55 PM, davidge said:

Way to young to remember it coming out but they are from Swansea 

I thought Steve Winwood was a brummie?

[davidge]

9 minutes ago, SLEUTH said:

I thought Steve Winwood was a brummie?

Spencer Davis is a Welsh musician and multi-instrumentalist, and the founder of the 1960s rock band The Spencer Davis Group. Wikipedia

Born: 17 July 1939 (age 77), Swansea

Music groups: The Spencer Davis Group, Rockamovya

Movies: The Ghost Goes Gear, Magical Mystery Tour, 60's Rock 'n' Roll Jukebox

Record labels: Fontana Records, United Artists Records

 

The band was named after him so good enough for me, regardless of who else was in it too. 

[striderman]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

showroom being demolished. i'm guessing to build the hotel unit

[KittenKong]

On 12/06/2017 at 10:15 PM, Blueydog said:

At least golden tulip or should we say grand avenue will have separate pool & areas for condo buyers which will be apart from the hotel complex unlike it's sister complex across the road being the centara avenue which shares the pool & as yet to be built gym with hotel guests who have more power in what goes on then condo owners themselves

 

Well, either the condo or the hotel must own the pool which presumably means that the other party is just borrowing it (and presumably paying some sort of fee). It should be possible to find out which it is.

 

On 12/06/2017 at 10:15 PM, Blueydog said:

We are yet to get a chanote despite numerous promises & a deadline of 4th quarter 2015 . We are yet to get a gym or roof top gardens & we are yet to have a body corporate meeting where we have any say in anything

 

You should get together with as many other co-owners as possible and have a meeting and form an ad-hoc committee. Take the signed voting results with copies of voter IDs to the Land Office and complain. Engage a Thai lawyer as a one-off to help you: it wont cost very much. If your building has been registered as a condominium then a GM must be held fairly promptly to decide rules and common fee payments and to appoint a committee and JPM and eventually a management company and anything else that co-owners care to do. The building accounts have to be presented at that meeting also. Dont let them walk over you.

[Halfaboy]

The problem usually at this stage is that the developer still holds the majority of the votes . So in a AGM he can decide whatever he wants.

[KittenKong]

20 hours ago, Halfaboy said:

The problem usually at this stage is that the developer still holds the majority of the votes . So in a AGM he can decide whatever he wants.

 

No, he cant. The condo act clearly precludes any one voter from casting more votes than the total of all other voters.

OK, this is Thailand and that means corruption and trickery so there are ways to work around that rule, but even so the law is in your favour and if you present voting results that show that all co-owners apart from the developer want change then the land office and the courts are likely to pay attention if it comes to that. Normally it wont come to that.

[Gnorman]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

No, he cant. The condo act clearly precludes any one voter from casting more votes than the total of all other voters.

OK, this is Thailand and that means corruption and trickery so there are ways to work around that rule, but even so the law is in your favour and if you present voting results that show that all co-owners apart from the developer want change then the land office and the courts are likely to pay attention if it comes to that. Normally it wont come to that.

Yes but in this case I think the owners are waiting for their chanotes which the bank probably hold not the developer. I can't see any amount of complaining will make a bit of difference until debts are paid.

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Gnorman

[KittenKong]

46 minutes ago, Gnorman said:

Yes but in this case I think the owners are waiting for their chanotes which the bank probably hold not the developer. I can't see any amount of complaining will make a bit of difference until debts are paid.

 

Maybe, maybe not. But if no one complains officially at all then it will probably just drag on and on and on indefinitely. Official complaints to the Land Office should get some sort of reaction and a proper explanation of the delay. Sending emails or letters to the developer will surely have no effect.

Co-owners have nothing to lose by complaining and everything to gain. So I suggest that they do so.

[striderman]

the ex showroom in Soi 15 today

 

 

 

and some progress on the first condo block

[Gnorman]

Thanks as always for your photos striderman.

[Saigonscot]

On 18/06/2017 at 09:21, Gnorman said:

Thanks as always for your photos striderman.

Yes, thank Striderman for the updates.

[brutox]

So, Blueydog, you have entered the bone crushing Thai Vortex .. the news is not good:

• Your developer is the notorious Tulip Group (NOT the same as the international Golden Tulip Resorts, which ostensibly operates the hotel);
• Chanote title deed transfers are now 1-1/2 years delinquent, and counting;
• Tulip Resorts is accepting no reservations at the onsite Golden Tulip Essential, which they ostensibly operate;
• You have taken occupancy.

I have been around the property investment and development business in Thailand a good bit, and have seen this .. I hate to say it, Blueydog, but in this situation in Thailand you not only have no good cards .. mmmm, you actually have no cards.

To be fair, there are some undercapitalized projects by incompetent developers that auger in .. but, a pattern of projects as this by the same players betrays something a bit more deliberate.

First and foremost, your position .. under Thai law, you are an unsecured creditor .. that means that you have given money to someone with no way to claim direct recompense (a uniquely defined collateral), other than on paper from a Thai court (which would be a major accomplishment by itself) .. by the time a court renders a judgement, the project (not the developer) is "bankrupt" .. the developer pulls money out of the project upfront (through an assortment of spurious means), leaving an empty shell .. they also build bankruptcy remoteness into the ownership structure, where the project is placed into a special purpose vehicle (SPV) created to own just this asset alone, and the developer is a contracted manager to the SPV, and has no liability for the SPV itself .. your legal recourse will be to a bankrupt company (alongside a gazillion other claimants), not the developer.

[ Incidentally, this ownership structuring is all legal under Thai law. ]

In this way, buyers' money can be deployed by the developer in any way he chooses, and I mean .. any .. way .. at .. all .. cars, boats, wine, women, generous development management fees (to themselves), and a host of other fees (also, to themselves) .. and, enough on the project to launch it and generate pre-sales .. and even as seed money to start the next project.

[  Watch for it .. with the passage of time, they often do it all again with an entirely new pipeline of unsuspecting buyers .. as they want to appear reputable, some cleverly conceal themselves (in the open) behind the good reputations of hotel management companies that innocently serve as their shills .. the reputable Centara hotels and Golden Tulip Resorts are the latest to be victimized and suffer brand damage by association. ]

Towards the end of a project as this, when bills are unpaid, the general contractor commonly takes ownership of the buyers' units .. sometimes lenders (generally not conventional banks) make high-risk loans to these guys in return for the chanote title deeds on the buyers units, at a very low loan-to-value ratio .. these guys are secured creditors .. meaning that the chanote title deed is transferred to them to hold as collateral until the debt is paid .. unit buyers' positions are subordinate to theirs .. waaaay subordinate .. actually, saying that unit buyers even have a position in the credit stack is probably overstating the reality.

[ If you will check with the Land Department, I rather doubt the chanote title deed on your unit is held in the name of a conventional bank .. developers as these are unqualified for loans from conventional banks .. it is more likely in the name of the contractor, or Somchai's International Bank of Last Resort .. pretty hot money, playing a high-risk long game. ]

What solace there is, is that once you take occupancy of a property in Thailand, landlords cannot blast you out, even with dynamite .. tenant rights here are very strong .. the right of adverse possession here stems from the long practice of squatter's rights, reaching back to days when a land's ownership was ill-defined by a seasonal stream boundary, and that big tree over there ("No, no, the other big one"), and the rise over there where Somchai's prize buffalo was struck by lightning back in '54.

[ A friend in Bangkok is in the same interminable bind as you, but at a bit greater a loss .. a THB 45.0m condo .. exact same scenario as this .. exactly .. he cannot sell it, and he cannot own it .. but, he has occupied it for the last 4+ years .. repeated attempts by the creditor holding the chanote title deed (the contractor) to evict him have failed .. he does, however, have the resources to fend eviction off with a top tier attorney who uses the Thai legal system's defects to advantage .. the creditor cannot sell it, since buyers know how difficult eviction in Thailand is .. the Thai Vortex. ]

It ain't good, Bueydog .. you can consult an attorney, but an honest attorney (ahhhh, hah-hah-hah-haaah! .. umm .. uh .. sorry) will probably advise you that what thin legal recourse you have by now might likely be back to an SPV company that is just smoke.

[  You might want to have an attorney brief you on the details of adverse possession ("squatter's rights") so that you are not maneuvered out of the property by whatever tricks the creditor might know .. unlike you, they've probably been here before. ]

The ghostly, tattering Waterfront Suites & Residences project towering over Pattaya should be a pattaya icon, screaming warnings to buyers of condos from developers as these .. unfortunately, there seems to be an endless stream of foreign newbies, unknowledgeable of Thai ways, who will believe everything they are told by the oh-so-friendly expert (and, honest!) sales agents, and who cannot see through the thin veneer beneath which these guys operate.

Good luck to you, Blueydog .. we will all be interested to see if there is a breakthrough for you on this.

Edited June 23, 2017 by brutox

[striderman]

On 6/18/2017 at 3:21 PM, Gnorman said:

Thanks as always for your photos striderman.

the remains of the showroom yesterday..............

 

[rhodie]

Good luck to all you guys. Maybe you should group together and employ @brutox as an adviser. Thing is dodgy developers do this all over the world, even in a highly regulated place like Australia. Risky buying off plan. Following with great interest.

[Gnorman]

On 6/13/2017 at 3:08 AM, Blueydog said:

2 months has been the standard answer for close to a year now . I no longer ask . Many have taken possession & living here despite the fact the bank still has the power to boot us in worst case scenario

I'm assuming the few people that have taken possession of their condos in the Centara Avenue development have obviously paid all their money in full, and have done so knowing they will probably not ever get their Chanote?

A friend rented a condo there earlier this year for a month. He said the Thai lady and older falang he rented the condo off had two condos available. He was going to book the same condo for Dec/Jan, they wanted cash up front not surprisingly. I told him to book if he wanted but don't pay, he was grateful once I told him why. He said it was like a ghost building inside, he was about the only one staying in his whole building and definitely the only one staying on his floor.  

It sounds a bit more promising for the condo owners across the Soi at the other development, but with new developers having taken over I'd be holding my breath I think.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by Gnorman