Retirement Visa problem - New Rules

[Mightygary]

On 20/09/2018 at 17:46, Billyboy294 said:

I find this hard to believe but i was speaking to the Austrian Consul this afternoon and he said the British Embassy in Bangkok is no longer providing letters confirming your Pension/Income. If true you had better start saving your pennies to get 800,000 baht in the bank.

Anyone else heard this.

Some visa agency would put 800,000 in your bank in order for you to make visa and then you take a copy of your bank statement for immigration and withdraw money back for them and pay them some fees.

[Billyboy294]

Yes they have been doing that for years for those who don't have a pension /income of 65,000 baht per month or have 800,000 Baht..

The fee is around 22,000 Baht for a first time "Extension of stay " and  about 12,000 baht for a renewal.

All probably mentioned several times throughout the topic but the topic is getting quite long now..

[Garzan]

I just completed my eighth retirement extension based on monthly income of >65,000b per month. As an US passport holder I no longer have the option of an Embassy Letter. 

So, as it turns out, under the new rules it has actually been less expensive. I don't need to go to Bangkok or hope the Embassy Outreach timing is good, or pay $50 USD for a notary signature. I got two documents from my local Bangkok Bank. One document for 200b was a print out of all my account transactions for the last year. The other document was a letter listing all my foreign deposits for the last year along with a year total for 100b. Significantly less than the Embassy, and local as well. 

My first attempt was unsuccessful. The examining officer wanted to see documentation of the source of my income. I do not know if it was him being exacting, or a general policy. Since the two sources of my income are a US Govt pension, plus monthly withdrawals from my retirement savings account, the documentation was easy, but needed a second trip to Immigration. I printed out one year of income statements from each source and brought them along. The second trip was successful and I was in and out within about 30 minutes. 

While the new rules were a bit worrisome prior to getting the extension, in retrospect, the new requirements were not all that difficult, and ended up costing me less money in documentation and travel. Now that I know what to expect, I am sure next year will be less troublesome.

[Scuba+]

I just completed my eighth retirement extension based on monthly income of >65,000b per month. As an US passport holder I no longer have the option of an Embassy Letter. 
So, as it turns out, under the new rules it has actually been less expensive. I don't need to go to Bangkok or hope the Embassy Outreach timing is good, or pay $50 USD for a notary signature. I got two documents from my local Bangkok Bank. One document for 200b was a print out of all my account transactions for the last year. The other document was a letter listing all my foreign deposits for the last year along with a year total for 100b. Significantly less than the Embassy, and local as well. 
My first attempt was unsuccessful. The examining officer wanted to see documentation of the source of my income. I do not know if it was him being exacting, or a general policy. Since the two sources of my income are a US Govt pension, plus monthly withdrawals from my retirement savings account, the documentation was easy, but needed a second trip to Immigration. I printed out one year of income statements from each source and brought them along. The second trip was successful and I was in and out within about 30 minutes. 
While the new rules were a bit worrisome prior to getting the extension, in retrospect, the new requirements were not all that difficult, and ended up costing me less money in documentation and travel. Now that I know what to expect, I am sure next year will be less troublesome.

Straight forward if you have pension income from abroad over 65k a year. If your monthly transfers are made up of prior year income i.e cash, investment cash, rental cash, any other cash, it isn't clear whether it will be accepted, so basically for me not receiving a pension, it's a waste of time and effort trying to comply with the 65k monthly method

[Garzan]

17 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

Straight forward if you have pension income from abroad over 65k a year. If your monthly transfers are made up of prior year income i.e cash, investment cash, rental cash, any other cash, it isn't clear whether it will be accepted, so basically for me not receiving a pension, it's a waste of time and effort trying to comply with the 65k monthly method

Then a good thing my post wasn't in any way directed at you. :-)

[cjtrader]

On 06/06/2019 at 23:39, ChiFlyer said:

oops - it was $39 in October 2018. Since I was able to drop my $70 a month Sprint service, I am happy with the deal.

Skype can now receive and send text messages, but there are some limits such as no attachments, at least on the ios app. Basically, AIS is my main phone service 9 months out of the year. Now that I am retired, I do not need the level of phone service in the US that I formerly had. The Skype number allows family and friends and businesses in the US to call me as a domestic call. Also, some US businesses require a US number.

When friends from the U.S. call your skype number, does your mobile phone ring or does the call go to your computer. I have been using skype to call home for years but did not know there was a way for my family to call me other than a skype to skype call. If it rings on my mobile at low cost that would be great.

[Garzan]

9 minutes ago, cjtrader said:

When friends from the U.S. call your skype number, does your mobile phone ring or does the call go to your computer. I have been using skype to call home for years but did not know there was a way for my family to call me other than a skype to skype call. If it rings on my mobile at low cost that would be great.

In the Skype settings I have it forward to my Thai cell phone number. When a call comes in it first goes to the desktop but then goes to my Thai cell phone. I also pay a fee to have a US mobile phone number for my Skype account, but I have yet (after several years) to ever successfully receive a text message sent to the Skype US mobile number. Fortunately, text messages go through my Google Voice US mobile number just fine. 

When I'm calling someone on Skype, the mobile number I pay for is what shows up on their caller ID. 

As a disclaimer, and to cover my 'old guy' ass, I also have the Skype application installed on my phone, and a 24/7 post pay data plan on my Thai phone.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Garzan

[Scuba+]

Then a good thing my post wasn't in any way directed at you. :-)

I imagine it was a comment generally

[Luv2Phuket]

Sorry if this has been addressed before (and I'm CERTAIN it has in the preceding 24 pages), are any of you transferring social security payments to meet the 65,000+ baht per month requirement and, if so, how?

I don't know if payments can be made by direct deposit from SSA to an account in Thailand, but I assume the way to do it is direct deposit into U.S.-based bank account and then transfer to Thai bank.  Does that work for reporting requirements?

While depressingly meager, my social security benefits should exceed the minimum required amount (so long as the bottom doesn't fall out of the exchange rate!)

[Garzan]

1 minute ago, Luv2Phuket said:

I don't know if payments can be made by direct deposit from SSA to an account in Thailand, but I assume the way to do it is direct deposit into U.S.-based bank account and then transfer to Thai bank.  Does that work for reporting requirements?

This specifically applies to US citizens receiving funds from the US Government. It does not apply to any one else. 

I won't be applying for social security until early next year, but social security payments are explicitly mentioned along with my federal pension payments on the Bangkok Bank 'transferring funds from the US' information page. So the answer is yes, and my direct experience is with Bangkok Bank. Open an account if you don't already have one, and tell them you want to receive direct deposit social security payments from the US Government. They will give you the correct forms and open the correct type of account. The deposits go to Bangkok Bank New York, and they will automatically show up in your Thailand account within a day or two. They will be listed as foreign deposits and will count toward your 65,000b requirement. 

There may be a way to do so with other Thailand banks. I think the US Embassy put out an email about that not too long ago, but I don't have direct experience with any other method than going through Bangkok Bank New York.

 

[Luv2Phuket]

53 minutes ago, Garzan said:

This specifically applies to US citizens receiving funds from the US Government. It does not apply to any one else. 

I won't be applying for social security until early next year, but social security payments are explicitly mentioned along with my federal pension payments on the Bangkok Bank 'transferring funds from the US' information page. So the answer is yes, and my direct experience is with Bangkok Bank. Open an account if you don't already have one, and tell them you want to receive direct deposit social security payments from the US Government. They will give you the correct forms and open the correct type of account. The deposits go to Bangkok Bank New York, and they will automatically show up in your Thailand account within a day or two. They will be listed as foreign deposits and will count toward your 65,000b requirement. 

There may be a way to do so with other Thailand banks. I think the US Embassy put out an email about that not too long ago, but I don't have direct experience with any other method than going through Bangkok Bank New York.

 

Great info - thanks!

Only one question - "open an account" where?  Here in the USA (at the NY branch) or in Thailand?

No rush - I am 10+ years away from being able to make the move (and ti gets longer the more I fuck around on PA instead of doing billable work! 555)

[Soi7]

1 minute ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Great info - thanks!

Only one question - "open an account" where?  Here in the USA (at the NY branch) or in Thailand?

No rush - I am 10+ years away from being able to make the move (and ti gets longer the more I fuck around on PA instead of doing billable work! 555)

No you cannot open an account with Bangkok Bank New York it is commercial only but they do funnel the funds through New York to your Thai account that you must open here. The only other downside is when you open an account here to get Social Security deposited to it you cannot have it attached to an ATM card you have to go in with your passport every month to get your funds out. And you can't automatically transfer it from one Bangkok bank account to another account you physically have to go get it it's a pain in the ass but they want to make sure you're still alive.

[ChiFlyer]

1 hour ago, cjtrader said:

When friends from the U.S. call your skype number, does your mobile phone ring or does the call go to your computer. I have been using skype to call home for years but did not know there was a way for my family to call me other than a skype to skype call. If it rings on my mobile at low cost that would be great.

It was ringing on both my laptop and phone, which was irritating. I did something to config it to ring on the phone only. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I stumbled through it pretty easily.

Be aware the sms options on the phone have limits. No attachments and no group chats. Other than that it works like a charm. Do not publish your number with Skype, as you will get junk calls.

[southsidebruce]

I have been using Skype for years on my phones and laptop... I have a SkypeIn number, have had it for a few years as well... I have not been able to receive SMS messages via the US/Florida SkypeIn number... I have seen several technical Skype forum discussions about Skype and ability to receive SMS messages, but so far, I am not able to receive them - and that sucks in many ways... But, still - I use Skype often and it works like a lucky charm bracelet (magically delicious) for the most part... 

[ChiFlyer]

1 hour ago, Garzan said:

.....

I won't be applying for social security until early next year, but social security payments are explicitly mentioned along with my federal pension payments on the Bangkok Bank 'transferring funds from the US' information page. ........

 

Hi Garzan - I did a title only search on the quoted phrase you mention and got no results. Could you supply a link, when you get a little time please?

[forcebwithu]

2 minutes ago, southsidebruce said:

I have been using Skype for years on my phones and laptop... I have a SkypeIn number, have had it for a few years as well... I have not been able to receive SMS messages via the US/Florida SkypeIn number... I have seen several technical Skype forum discussions about Skype and ability to receive SMS messages, but so far, I am not able to receive them - and that sucks in many ways... But, still - I use Skype often and it works like a lucky charm bracelet (magically delicious) for the most part... 

Because of the problems with receiving SMS via Skype I setup a free Google Voice number. That has worked fine the few times I've needed to be able to receive an SMS.

[forcebwithu]

1 minute ago, ChiFlyer said:

Hi Garzan - I did a title only search on the quoted phrase you mention and got no results. Could you supply a link, when you get a little time please?

I have the link handy as I've bookmarked it. Here you go.
https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

Expand the section titled, Advice to Bangkok Bank customers receiving payments from US government agencies or private organizations (Direct Deposit).

[cjtrader]

17 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

Straight forward if you have pension income from abroad over 65k a year. If your monthly transfers are made up of prior year income i.e cash, investment cash, rental cash, any other cash, it isn't clear whether it will be accepted, so basically for me not receiving a pension, it's a waste of time and effort trying to comply with the 65k monthly method

Has anyone tried the 65k per month method at Jomtien immigration yet? I will have 6 monthly intl transfers by the time I renew in November. However, my social security is only about 42,000 baht and I make up the other 23,000 from my savings and stock investments. Maybe Jomtien is more liberal than the Udon Thani office that Garzan used and I will not have to document the source of my income. Has anyone tried Jomtien yet?

[Scuba+]

Has anyone tried the 65k per month method at Jomtien immigration yet? I will have 6 monthly intl transfers by the time I renew in November. However, my social security is only about 42,000 baht and I make up the other 23,000 from my savings and stock investments. Maybe Jomtien is more liberal than the Udon Thani office that Garzan used and I will not have to document the source of my income. Has anyone tried Jomtien yet?

Desk 8 Jomtien said to me last month no leniency...so may well/probably won't accept 6 months. Have a plan B. I don't know if they will check the source, but they are very corrupt so will reject if at all possible

[southsidebruce]

got my retirement extension done at Jomtien last week (using the 800K THB method - had it in the bank by early April - which is fortunate/better exchange rate for the USD at that time than now)... I had almost everything I needed (used info from the Pattaya Expats website checklist), except for 2 additional copies of pages in my passport that they needed; and the middle aged gal that was checking my paperwork did the copies there - didn't send me away to do it and come back - which was nice... came back the next day to pick up my passport and get a reentry permit... that also went smoothly and again I was missing a passport page copy (the new retirement extension page), and they again made the copy right there JohnnyOnTheSpot - nice... got that done... only small problem is that my passport expires in April, so I will have to go through this again 3 months earlier than I would have had to do if my passport expiration date wasn't during the 1 year extension period... I plan to try to mail in my passport to the Embassy and see how that works out - to get a new one... they said takes about 2-3 weeks...  all in all, went way smoother than I had anticipated... 

[eXplosief]

26 minutes ago, Scuba+ said:

but they are very corrupt so will reject if at all possible

If it is corruption than there would be a monetary way around it. Is there any?

[Garzan]

1 hour ago, Soi7 said:

And you can't automatically transfer it from one Bangkok bank account to another account you physically have to go get it it's a pain in the ass but they want to make sure you're still alive.

It also effectively insures that no one except you can access the funds. :-) No one can conk you on the head and steal your ATM card and get at your retirement money.

As a side note, my pension goes onto my Direct Deposit account, but the majority of my pension is siphoned off via an allotment that is deposited in my regular BB ATM account that has mobile banking attached to it. I suspect it would work if someone had two accounts, the direct deposit one, and an ATM one, and later redirected the social security direct deposit payments over to the ATM account number.

My daughter in the US put me on her utility bill, so I was able to get a United Nations Federal Credit Union account (have to have a US utility bill to prove your US address, nothing else is acceptable to them). I haven't sent one yet but @furryman recommended them for very inexpensive International transfers. Last month I did a SWIFT via Navy Federal for $25 USD, but UNFCU is supposed to be significantly cheaper. Those show up as foreign deposits on my BB ATM account too. 

[Garzan]

31 minutes ago, Scuba+ said:

Desk 8 Jomtien said to me last month no leniency...so may well/probably won't accept 6 months. Have a plan B. I don't know if they will check the source, but they are very corrupt so will reject if at all possible

I'm not sure if being a stickler for the rules is accurately classed as 'corruption'. It's certainly been an unwelcome shock to have them actually trying to limit corruption by enforcing the rules they have in place when we've all been used to pretty much a free ride. 

But there is still corruption in place, since the Visa Agents are still doing business for those who aren't quite able to meet the letter of the requirements. :-) I don't know how the Visa Agents are managing it, but yes, Plan B is still around in Chonburi for around 12500-15000 baht. 555

My Plan B was going to be applying for a Marriage Visa, and I am oh so glad I don't have to go through that paperwork nightmare. :-)

[Scuba+]

If it is corruption than there would be a monetary way around it. Is there any?

Yes 20k for the 18 months Non imm O then extension.

From an agent 21k, year extension 12500 baht

[Scuba+]

I'm not sure if being a stickler for the rules is accurately classed as 'corruption'. It's certainly been an unwelcome shock to have them actually trying to limit corruption by enforcing the rules they have in place when we've all been used to pretty much a free ride. 
But there is still corruption in place, since the Visa Agents are still doing business for those who aren't quite able to meet the letter of the requirements. :-) I don't know how the Visa Agents are managing it, but yes, Plan B is still around in Chonburi for around 12500-15000 baht. 555
My Plan B was going to be applying for a Marriage Visa, and I am oh so glad I don't have to go through that paperwork nightmare. :-)

You must have missed the posts about them blocking the legit routes, showing no leniency which they are meant to for a limited period and steering people incl me to the corrupt route