Retirement Visa problem - New Rules

[kansuwan]

Here's the official notice:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5d9c3b074d8a8f318362a8aa&fbclid=IwAR39UI_zBxVLedZKgZeAeYnvb0yyyIsr6SHPhnq64ohzACO7VsLUU_LlGn0

[davidge]

5 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

If they do make insurance mandatory for those with an extension to stay, I sure hope they eliminate the requirement "must buy a Thai health insurance online". I've looked at those policies and they're both expensive for the limited coverage, and IMHO the coverage is inadequate. I have a much better policy through IMG Global that far exceeds anything the Thai insurance companies offer.

They allow non-Thai policies BUT the proof they require that the coverage meets the requirements may make it impossible in practice. Again, we have to wait and see.

Also, the order seems today that they’d only be accepted for 1 year before having to switch to one of the ‘official’ policies. Effectively forcing people to dump good policies for much inferior ones. 

 

[davidge]

The new requirement is now on the Thai Embassy London website:

So, who does this apply to?

1. Clearly anyone applying for a new O-A visa in their home country.

2. Pretty clearly anyone entering or re-entering Thailand on a new O-A after 31 October. As you can, effectively, use an O-A for up to 2 years you’ll need to keep the insurance for as long as you use the visa.

3. Possibly anyone re-entering Thailand on an existing O-A after 31 October. This is unclear at the moment but the order seems to imply that if you already have an O-A and leave Thailand then you could need insurance when you re-enter after 31 October???? Needs to be clarified.

4. Maybe, only maybe, someone with an O-A who then applies for an Extension of Stay. This is very unclear at the moment. It may not apply at all, in which case you could buy insurance for one year and then cancel. Worse case scenario is that it applies to anyone with an underlying O-A when applying for Extension. Looks unlikely, but as policy plays out we’ll have to watch what happens.

An example of the costs involved:

[Scuba+]

So daft this is. You need 400k + 40k cover. Having that in a bank account should be sufficient (£20k in the bank is more than enough). With insurance they will exclude pre existing conditions anyway so insurance is useless.

Better to see an agent instead and forget about O-A, which is what they want anyway

[ChiFlyer]

I pretty much agree with what Davidge is saying. I may have really lucked out administrative wise on this, for now.

I did my first Retirement One Year Extension of Stay based on an original (now expired) OA Non-IM a few weeks ago.

My US based insurance meets the requirements and is valid in Thailand, but I sure as hell would like to avoid proving it to Immigration. 

When I show that form to my US Insurance Company, I will assuredly get a "we'll get back to you on this".

On a related note, I was thinking I should take my US Insurance card to a Pattaya Hospital that I would likely use in the event of an emergency, just in order to have them record that I am covered. Anyone done this? I suspect that I can find more entertaining ways to waste my time.

[forcebwithu]

8 hours ago, ChiFlyer said:

On a related note, I was thinking I should take my US Insurance card to a Pattaya Hospital that I would likely use in the event of an emergency, just in order to have them record that I am covered. Anyone done this? I suspect that I can find more entertaining ways to waste my time.

I keep a copy of my insurance card and passport with me. In the event of an emergency that will be sufficient. I know this from first hand experience as years ago I got a slow ride in an ambulance to BPH (slow b/c selfish Thais do not give way to an emergency vehicle with lights and siren on). On arrival I handed over my copies and was well taken care of. Don't be surprised though if they ask for a bit of cash as an upfront payment when you're sufficiently recovered. In my case it was the next morning the request for 20k was made. Don't have it on you, no problem. They load you up in a wheelchair and take you to the ground floor ATM. 

[Scuba+]

I pretty much agree with what Davidge is saying. I may have really lucked out administrative wise on this, for now.

I did my first Retirement One Year Extension of Stay based on an original (now expired) OA Non-IM a few weeks ago.

My US based insurance meets the requirements and is valid in Thailand, but I sure as hell would like to avoid proving it to Immigration. 

When I show that form to my US Insurance Company, I will assuredly get a "we'll get back to you on this".

On a related note, I was thinking I should take my US Insurance card to a Pattaya Hospital that I would likely use in the event of an emergency, just in order to have them record that I am covered. Anyone done this? I suspect that I can find more entertaining ways to waste my time.

Maybe check with your Pattaya hospital of choice, some only deal with specific insurers. You don't really want to find out as they wheel you in

 

[sulu]

My understanding is that the Non O-A is a long stay visa, obtained in one's own country, with the intent to retire in Thailand. That now requires health insurance.

The Non O, obtained in Thailand is essentially the same thing. Can someone offer an opinion as to why this visa would NOT require health insurance ?

TIA

[Soi7]

1 hour ago, sulu said:

My understanding is that the Non O-A is a long stay visa, obtained in one's own country, with the intent to retire in Thailand. That now requires health insurance.

The Non O, obtained in Thailand is essentially the same thing. Can someone offer an opinion as to why this visa would NOT require health insurance ?

TIA

That's a great question

[Oukiva]

1 hour ago, sulu said:

The Non O, obtained in Thailand is essentially the same thing.  //

So false...  :(

The Non-O is completely different of the Non-O-A !

The Non-O-A is only for +50 yo and give 1-year stays

The Non-O is for "anyone" for all kind of reasons (marriage, retirement, child, sport, voluntary, spectacle, …). It gives 90-days stays. It can be single or multiple.

Same as ALL visas, you can only get it outside Thailand, in its Consulates or Embassies. You are not restricted to those in your country as for the O-A.

(The only exception (that I know) about visa obtained in Thailand is when you "transform" your current visa to a Non-O in the aim of obtaining a 1-year extension (retirement, marriage, …))

[Oukiva]

1 hour ago, sulu said:

//  Can someone offer an opinion as to why this visa would NOT require health insurance ?

Because they process on these changes visa by visa ?

• First, Non-O-X
• Now, Non-O-A
• Next, all 1-year Non-O visas ? 
• Next, all 1-year visas ??
• next, all 1-year Extensions ??? 

[fforest]

1 hour ago, sulu said:

My understanding is that the Non O-A is a long stay visa, obtained in one's own country, with the intent to retire in Thailand. That now requires health insurance.

The Non O, obtained in Thailand is essentially the same thing. Can someone offer an opinion as to why this visa would NOT require health insurance ?

TIA

Because they need to turn the heat up slowly to cook the frog....

[Scuba+]

My understanding is that the Non O-A is a long stay visa, obtained in one's own country, with the intent to retire in Thailand. That now requires health insurance.
The Non O, obtained in Thailand is essentially the same thing. Can someone offer an opinion as to why this visa would NOT require health insurance ?
TIA

With a Non Imm O-A you don't need thai baht, equivalent currency is sufficient which means no one needs to buy thai baht which means it's not as good for the country as a Non Imm O where you get the 800k \ 65k monthly etc options. So basically they don't want people to get a O-A, if you do you get stung for useless expensive health insurance.

That's the only logic i can see because we know most retirees here who are at risk of hospital treatment have a Non Imm O and extensions

[usexpat46]

4 hours ago, Oukiva said:

So false...  :(

The Non-O is completely different of the Non-O-A !

The Non-O-A is only for +50 yo and give 1-year stays

The Non-O is for "anyone" for all kind of reasons (marriage, retirement, child, sport, voluntary, spectacle, …). It gives 90-days stays. It can be single or multiple.

Same as ALL visas, you can only get it outside Thailand, in its Consulates or Embassies. You are not restricted to those in your country as for the O-A.

(The only exception (that I know) about visa obtained in Thailand is when you "transform" your current visa to a Non-O in the aim of obtaining a 1-year extension (retirement, marriage, …))

I got my Non-O visa in 2006 when I was on the 30 day entry stamp as it was required to get the 1 year extension.  Cost was 2000 baht and after I paid, it was immediately stamped used.  I then went to the retirement extension desk paid 1900 baht and received the 1 year extension however the 1 year began from the date that I entered LOS on the 30 day stamp which was 2 weeks earlier. So a total of 3900 baht paid and I got 50 weeks of stay.  That Non O visa has since been transferred to 2 passports with no cost.

[Taa_Saparot]

Thread on TV saying Jomtien are asking for insurance for Retirement Extensions.

[petermik]

7 hours ago, Taa_Saparot said:

Thread on TV saying Jomtien are asking for insurance for Retirement Extensions.

rumours rumours rumours

[Soi7]

20 minutes ago, Taa_Saparot said:

Thread on TV saying Jomtien are asking for insurance for Retirement Extensions.

 yes I posted it over there I thought I posted it here as well what happened was a gentleman At our condo complex was down to do his retirement extension the lady told him when he asked about the medical requirement that he would indeed need it next year. He questioned her about it all she would tell him was boss say have to have after end of the month. I don't know the guy we were down at the pool and he was talking to a group of people regarding this don't know why he would make the story up if in fact he did.

[Garzan]

Taking a break from insurance rumors... :-)

I waited to post this until I could get a printout of my Bangkok Bank passbook. This post only applies to US citizens who were using Bangkok Bank New York branch to secure retirement extensions based on 65,000+ baht per month transfers into Thailand. If you aren't doing your extension based on monthly income, this post does not apply to you. If you're not moving money from the United States to Thailand, this post doesn't apply to you. If you think Transferwise is the greatest thing to happen since sliced bread this post does not apply to you.

Supposedly BBNY was going to insist on IAT compliant domestic transfers after April 1st of this year. This is now October, and I've still been able to successfully do domestic transfers using an ABA number from my US bank to BBNY and have the money show up automagically in Thailand. However this last transfer took 10 days so I think they may be dragging their feet to get people to explore other options. It is working with me since 10 days for a transfer is far too long.

On the recommendation of BM @furryman I opened an account with the United Nations Credit Union. https://www.unfcu.org/home/ If you don't happen to work, or worked for the UN, no worries, there is a $50.00 workaround. If you happen to be a member of the United Nations Association of The United States of America ANA-USA you can join UNFCU. The requirement to join ANA-USA is $50.00 (problem solved). https://unausa.org/ The only real sticking point to opening a bank account with UNFCU is you ~must~ have a US utility bill with your name on it, so this process is a lot easier to get started if you're still in the US. If you aren't still in the US, and you've closed out as much as you could in the US, hopefully you have a relative or friend who will let you get on one of their utility bills for a couple of months. 

I just completed an international transfer from UNFCU to my Bangkok Bank account here in Thailand since that BB account is the one I use to document 65,000+ baht inbound foreign transfers per month. The transfer shows up as a foreign transfer. It does take a little longer, three to four days, but the cost is $5.00 USD per transfer. Sending a SWIFT transfer through my Navy Federal Credit Union account is $25.00 per transfer. I'd rather pay $5.00 USD. 

So, if you're moving money from the US, and you're basing your retirement extension on monthly income, and you think that BB might actually finally shut down non compliant domestic transfers someday, UNFCU may be a good option with their $5.00 International money transfers. They do show up as foreign transfers on my Bangkok Bank statement, which for me is the critical part. Perhaps they might work out for you.

(NOTE: this doesn't apply to direct deposits of US Government funds (pension, ss, etc) since all that has remained unchanged.)

[Oukiva]

42 minutes ago, Taa_Saparot said:

Thread on TV saying Jomtien are asking for insurance for Retirement Extensions.

That's unsurprising seeing that they added that in the Rules for Retirement Extension :

(see posts #642-#643 on previous page)

 

The important point to notice is  that the rule clearly concern

those who get Retirement Extension based on an initial Non-O-A visa ONLY,

and most of us have their Extension based on a Non-O Visa.

[fforest]

29 minutes ago, Soi7 said:

 yes I posted it over there I thought I posted it here as well what happened was a gentleman At our condo complex was down to do his retirement extension the lady told him when he asked about the medical requirement that he would indeed need it next year. He questioned her about it all she would tell him was boss say have to have after end of the month. I don't know the guy we were down at the pool and he was talking to a group of people regarding this don't know why he would make the story up if in fact he did.

A guy hanging out by the pool said this then it must be true.....

[Soi7]

1 minute ago, fforest said:

A guy hanging out by the pool said this then it must be true.....

Yeah I don't know the guy but it makes me wonder why anybody would make the story up in any event I guess we're going to find out in a couple of weeks when people start going down after the 31st to do their extension

[usexpat46]

1 hour ago, Soi7 said:

Yeah I don't know the guy but it makes me wonder why anybody would make the story up in any event I guess we're going to find out in a couple of weeks when people start going down after the 31st to do their extension

I wonder what kind of proof they will require for those that have medical coverage from insurance they have in their home country.

[Soi7]

1 minute ago, usexpat46 said:

I wonder what kind of proof they will require for those that have medical coverage from insurance they have in their home country.

That's a very good question but as each office makes up their own rules I guess there's no answer that'll apply to all of them

[davidge]

6 minutes ago, usexpat46 said:

I wonder what kind of proof they will require for those that have medical coverage from insurance they have in their home country.

 

4 minutes ago, Soi7 said:

That's a very good question but as each office makes up their own rules I guess there's no answer that'll apply to all of them

There’s a form on the official insurance website that has to be completed by the overseas insurance company and signed by 2 directors confirming the coverage meets the Thai Government requirements.

Good luck to anyone who tries to get that done!

In any case, the implication on the site is that is only acceptable for the first year in any case and there must be one of the Thai company policies thereafter.

There’s an awful lot in this that we’ll just have to wait and see about. A real mess tbh.

[Soi7]

The answers are going to come fast and furious after the first of next month looking forward to the reports that come back from guys going down to get their extension