Hot Resale At The Golden Tulip - Foreign Quota

[brutox]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Do you have the original specs and brochures/photos? In other developments some people have had some success in getting some compensation (with the assistance of the consumer protection office) for not receiving what was originally described. Clearly if you can rally support from other co-owners your complaint will have more impact.

Hey, paulyd2k.

I think few here would counsel litigation as a first recourse.

As KittenKong suggests, you might have success by first appealing to the Consumer Protection Board (CPB) .. it was created to defend the unentitled little guys in Thai society (consumers) from the abuses by the powerful interests defended by the influential and entitled, offering an alternative to the uncertainties, expense, and time of Thai jurisprudence .. in a fashion, a return to village justice.

It is essentially mediation, in which a key to success is the number of aggrieved complainants and the blatancy of the developer's misrepresentations.

On your side might also be a Thai law codified several years specifically targeting property developers who were doing exactly this .. collateral materials illustrating glorious properties that were a shadow of what they actually delivered .. the PhD of the old bait and switch.

Depending on when your project was launched, Golden Tulip might be subject to this law, or it might be grandfathered if they launched the project before the law was codified .. an attorney could advise.

I did not read the details, but the law attempts to hold developers accountable for misrepresentations .. I rather doubt it is easy to enforce in court, as many Thai laws are not very tightly written and the Thai legal systems is built for allowing the 'Middle Way' (or, my ham-fisted interpretation of this Buddhist concept), which is open for wide-ranging interpretation .. but, it is out there.

I appeared before the CPB about 12-14 years ago.  Our company was unfairly targeted by a very large number of people who failed in their legal complaint against us.  After failing in court, they took it to the CPB, where we again prevailed.  As a face-saving gesture, we made a few right-of-the-decimal place concessions, which allowed the leader of the complainant group, a retired senior judge with big face, to claim a hollow victory and save face.

On my side I had a powerful Army general from my BOD, and I retained an attorney, who both remained unseen to hi from the back row .. we determined it was best to appear before the CPB mediator as a defenseless citizen, appealing against unfair treatment by influential, powerful interests.

It was time consuming (maybe 6 months +/-) and bothersome (maybe 5-6 appearances before the CPB), but fair .. allowed us to appear conciliatory at no real cost .. it allowed the complainants a path out .. it worked for us.

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by brutox

[paulyd2k]

well I got some pictures and the glossy brochure but you know what they are like here, I have spoken to the chap in charge now and he seems a decent chap , have offered to scrap the sinking fund and first year no maintainence, and prob a discount on last payment, so I will see how it goes, I have had a few properties here but down to 2 now, well 1 and an unfinished 1,55555, I don't need the money for anything so will ride it out and hope the project is nice when done, if I live to see it finished, WTF,555

[wido]

18 hours ago, paulyd2k said:

yes exactly, so going to be a complete bombsite for another 2 plus years, and also they are giving us condos that are nothing like we were shown, the only differences I was told were the kitchen colour choices,  so far the doors look different and the tiles look different, and if its anything like across the road at the end of construction people will still be angry in four years time, the quality and finishes are poor at centara. they just expect us to put up and shut up here,

The contract mention: living, dining, kitchen, bedrooms: ceramic tile floor, bathrooms: marble tile floor, balcony: ceramic tile floor

doors: timber veneers doors or painted timber doors and solid timber frame, full height with imported hardware, hafele or equivalent as per sample.

note: finishes/materials standard mentioned above are subject to availability and may be changed to equal. selected natural materials such as stone and timber will have some variations in tone and colour.

If you have the same contract signed, where do you see it's not the same tile and materials. You already visited the site and saw they were not use ceramic tiles?

 

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, wido said:

The contract mention: living, dining, kitchen, bedrooms: ceramic tile floor, bathrooms: marble tile floor, balcony: ceramic tile floor

doors: timber veneers doors or painted timber doors and solid timber frame, full height with imported hardware, hafele or equivalent as per sample.

note: finishes/materials standard mentioned above are subject to availability and may be changed to equal. selected natural materials such as stone and timber will have some variations in tone and colour.

If you have the same contract signed, where do you see it's not the same tile and materials. You already visited the site and saw they were not use ceramic tiles?

I think the important part of the contract is "..... subject to availability .... may be changed to equal....".

There are tiles and tiles, and some can cost 10 times what others do. If you were originally promised nice tiles worth xB/sqm then you expect to get nice tiles worth about xB/sqm and not some crappy tiles only worth half of that. The same goes for all the other fittings etc. Just as if you were promised a full air-con gymnasium you would not expect to get a broom closet with one barbell in.

That said, purchasers should bear in mind that most of the finishing products used in most new builds are of very poor quality and will not last very long. You are buying glitter not gold.
The kitchen surfaces in my condo are made of granite: not very long ago they all were. They look exactly the same today as they did years ago when they were new. And they will still look exactly the same in 50 years time when I'm long dead. Modern condo kitchen surfaces are usually particleboard and very thin Formica. Owners will be lucky to get a few years out of them, and if it was me I would negotiate not to have them and would buy proper ones myself.

[paulyd2k]

our contract is with golden tulip who doesn't exist, lucky the condos are still in our name

[wido]

8 hours ago, paulyd2k said:

our contract is with golden tulip who doesn't exist, lucky the condos are still in our name

The contract was not with Tulip but with Testanorm by Tulip co, who has been changed the name to Testanorm Property Pattaya co.

One of the directors, mr. Yakov Elbaz (Kobi) has been replaced by mr. Yuranan  Fineman (Nova Group)

The project name has also been changed from Golden Tulip hotel and Residence to Grand Avenue Residence.

All the conditions mentioned in the original contract are still valid and effective with the new names, the completion dates will be extended to December 2018.

I have a signed addendum by Testanorm property pattaya co. ltd. to my condominium purchase contract.

The original contract mentioned only ceramic tiles if you want other tiles or quality you have to negotiate by Testanorm property pattaya co. ltd.

Complaining on this forum is useless.

 

[wido]

9 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I think the important part of the contract is "..... subject to availability .... may be changed to equal....".

There are tiles and tiles, and some can cost 10 times what others do. If you were originally promised nice tiles worth xB/sqm then you expect to get nice tiles worth about xB/sqm and not some crappy tiles only worth half of that. The same goes for all the other fittings etc. Just as if you were promised a full air-con gymnasium you would not expect to get a broom closet with one barbell in.

That said, purchasers should bear in mind that most of the finishing products used in most new builds are of very poor quality and will not last very long. You are buying glitter not gold.
The kitchen surfaces in my condo are made of granite: not very long ago they all were. They look exactly the same today as they did years ago when they were new. And they will still look exactly the same in 50 years time when I'm long dead. Modern condo kitchen surfaces are usually particleboard and very thin Formica. Owners will be lucky to get a few years out of them, and if it was me I would negotiate not to have them and would buy proper ones myself.

I was according to the contract only promised ceramic tiles, no further specification sheet at the contract. Maybe we signed too easy the contract after visiting the showroom and looking at the promotion leaflet.

Edited January 1, 2018 by wido

[striderman]

[Scuba+]

Maybe we signed too easy the contract after visiting the showroom and looking at the promotion leaflet.

Was the sales girl hot?

[usexpat46]

1 hour ago, wido said:

The contract was not with Tulip but with Testanorm by Tulip co, who has been changed the name to Testanorm Property Pattaya co.

One of the directors, mr. Yakov Elbaz (Kobi) has been replaced by mr. Yuranan  Fineman (Nova Group)

The project name has also been changed from Golden Tulip Hotel and Residence to Grand Avenue Residence.

All the conditions mentioned in the original contract are still valid and effective with the new names, the completion dates will be extended to December 2018.

I have a signed addendum by Testanorm property pattaya co. ltd. to my condominium purchase contract.

The original contract mentioned only ceramic tiles if you want other tiles or quality you have to negotiate by Testanorm property pattaya co. ltd.

Complaining on this forum is useless.

 

Was there a penalty in the original contract of "X" amount reduced for each day late of completion?

[wido]

9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

Was the sales girl hot?

 

It was a sales man, he didn't looks hot.

Edited January 1, 2018 by wido

[wido]

8 hours ago, usexpat46 said:

Was there a penalty in the original contract of "X" amount reduced for each day late of completion?

The only penalty was under 4.2: in case the seller is not able to complete the construction, the buyer is entiteld to receive all of his monies  returned as mentioned under section 2, including interest at the highest rate equal to the savings interest of  krung thai bank plc, calculated from the paid date.

But, in mine opinion, without bank warranty is this penalty nothing worth.

[usexpat46]

4 hours ago, wido said:

The only penalty was under 4.2: in case the seller is not able to complete the construction, the buyer is entiteld to receive all of his monies  returned as mentioned under section 2, including interest at the highest rate equal to the savings interest of  krung thai bank plc, calculated from the paid date.

But, in mine opinion, without bank warranty is this penalty nothing worth.

When I bought my condo there was a  penalty for each day delayed after the stated completion date.  However the condo was basically completed as some units were occupied with owners while the other units were shells.  I don't know if that penalty clause in the contract was the developers idea or the law firm that I hired to handle the sale,  but I did get the discount for the delay.

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, wido said:

The only penalty was under 4.2: in case the seller is not able to complete the construction, the buyer is entiteld to receive all of his monies .......

Complete the construction when? On time? A month late? A year late? 10 years late? Ever?

What you are describing is an open-ended clause and as such is meaningless. If no date is specified then you can forget about the clause being applied. About the only thing that would put that clause into effect would be the developer ceasing trading, and of course if it does that it probably means that it's bankrupt and has no assets anyway, so you would have nothing to claim against. Plus the fact that in case of any claim you would be an unsecured creditor and as such would be at the bottom of the list of creditors, below entities like the government (taxes etc.) and staff and banks.

As far as I know this was a feature of the problems connected with the Waterfront, and when it applied for restructuring all creditors had to submit details of what they were owed or forfeit their claim entirely.

[southsidebruce]

in the meantime, while this monstrosity of a condo build is continuously underWay, for years on end - the new Holiday Inn Express on Bukhao will be completed and opened in another few months (I am guessing)... I have seen some buildings that seem to take forever to build, and others that are built in what seems like record time... the constantly changing name/management TwoLip Condo Emporium is the former... what a racket... 

[wrapper]

On 1/2/2018 at 01:25, southsidebruce said:

in the meantime, while this monstrosity of a condo build is continuously underWay, for years on end - the new Holiday Inn Express on Bukhao will be completed and opened in another few months (I am guessing)... I have seen some buildings that seem to take forever to build, and others that are built in what seems like record time... the constantly changing name/management TwoLip Condo Emporium is the former... what a racket... 

who'd buy a new condo off-plan in thailand if you read the forums first?  I didn't read the forums first and only after going in head and feet first, of course you can get the wrong impression reading forums but I have learned enough to tell me that I would never have purchased and can only hope i get away with my foolishness.

southside bruce talks of some that seem to be built with no issues while others lag behind, mines is contractually due to be finished on june 2018, hope I'm one of the lucky ones?......does this look promising? can i stop worrying?

I've been shitting myself, sorry for language ever since buying it and then reading forums, every rule i've read on hear not to do i've broken them all, naive, incredibly stupid, gullible, misguided, i was them all, if only I had taken advice, read the forums, i did nothing, just viewed lots of condos and then bought one, there's a big difference from a 2 weeks 3 times a year holidaymaker and buying your own condo......as i said i hope i get away with my gross stupidity?

[Gnorman]

7 hours ago, wrapper said:

who'd buy a new condo off-plan in thailand if you read the forums first?  I didn't read the forums first and only after going in head and feet first, of course you can get the wrong impression reading forums but I have learned enough to tell me that I would never have purchased and can only hope i get away with my foolishness.

southside bruce talks of some that seem to be built with no issues while others lag behind, mines is contractually due to be finished on june 2018, hope I'm one of the lucky ones?......does this look promising? can i stop worrying?

I've been shitting myself, sorry for language ever since buying it and then reading forums, every rule i've read on hear not to do i've broken them all, naive, incredibly stupid, gullible, misguided, i was them all, if only I had taken advice, read the forums, i did nothing, just viewed lots of condos and then bought one, there's a big difference from a 2 weeks 3 times a year holidaymaker and buying your own condo......as i said i hope i get away with my gross stupidity?

 

I'm sure if you posted the developer and project someone would have some info for you, the building looks to be ticking along ok to me though.

[wrapper]

7 hours ago, Gnorman said:

I'm sure if you posted the developer and project someone would have some info for you, the building looks to be ticking along ok to me though.

well that was one of the many big errors i made, everyone on here says only use reputable developers with a proven track record, this project is their first.

[Harry Brown]

57 minutes ago, wrapper said:

well that was one of the many big errors i made, everyone on here says only use reputable developers with a proven track record, this project is their first.

What's the name of the project?

Are there workmen on the job?

Was it inactive for a period of time?

 

 

[wrapper]

7 minutes ago, Harry Brown said:

What's the name of the project?

Are there workmen on the job?

Was it inactive for a period of time?

 

 

can't post the name of the project...with good reason, have to be careful what i say

but yes there has always been lots of workmen on the job and no inactivity.

condos aren't selling too quickly or at all in pattaya even in "luxury" development like this,  prices have come down, not up as i thought was the case as it nears completion, as i've said I've already broken all the rules and treated this purchase like I was buying at home and clueless really to the going's on in Thailand Property construction so maybe I'm worrying needlessly?, if i was to turn the clock back i definitely would not buy, Thailand is too crooked and buying a property is just so risky, maybe for smart guys it isn't but for someone as naive as me?..well?

the photos show that externally it's almost completed and the windows are on every apartment and i'd imagine they've already purchased most of the materials to finish the job as the crane has gone, i am taking this as a good sign and my hope is that it will indeed finish on time and built to the "luxury" spec's in the showroom and on my contract.

[usexpat46]

36 minutes ago, wrapper said:

can't post the name of the project...with good reason, have to be careful what i say

but yes there has always been lots of workmen on the job and no inactivity.

condos aren't selling too quickly or at all in pattaya even in "luxury" development like this,  prices have come down, not up as i thought was the case as it nears completion, as i've said I've already broken all the rules and treated this purchase like I was buying at home and clueless really to the going's on in Thailand Property construction so maybe I'm worrying needlessly?, if i was to turn the clock back i definitely would not buy, Thailand is too crooked and buying a property is just so risky, maybe for smart guys it isn't but for someone as naive as me?..well?

the photos show that externally it's almost completed and the windows are on every apartment and i'd imagine they've already purchased most of the materials to finish the job as the crane has gone, i am taking this as a good sign and my hope is that it will indeed finish on time and built to the "luxury" spec's in the showroom and on my contract.

Well I'm glad I read this post before I answered Harry Brown's question.  A few positives about buying pre plan.  1.You usually get a discount.  2. You have the option of just buying the shell and finishing it off to your specs. 3. You have the choice of more units instead of only what is left i.e. buying a unit that has only 1 or no common wall.

[wrapper]

40 minutes ago, usexpat46 said:

Well I'm glad I read this post before I answered Harry Brown's question.  A few positives about buying pre plan.  1.You usually get a discount.  2. You have the option of just buying the shell and finishing it off to your specs. 3. You have the choice of more units instead of only what is left i.e. buying a unit that has only 1 or no common wall.

of course buying pre-plan can have positives especially if you get what you paid for when completed

but in between buying off-plan and completion can and often is a nerve wracking time, this I had no clue of before and of course for many this has resulted in financial disaster, I now realise you have to be a gambler to buy off-plan

[KittenKong]

20 hours ago, wrapper said:

who'd buy a new condo off-plan in thailand if you read the forums first?  I didn't read the forums first and only after going in head and feet first, of course you can get the wrong impression reading forums but I have learned enough to tell me that I would never have purchased and can only hope i get away with my foolishness.

southside bruce talks of some that seem to be built with no issues while others lag behind, mines is contractually due to be finished on june 2018, hope I'm one of the lucky ones?......does this look promising? can i stop worrying?

 

I know which building this is, but I wont mention the name for the reasons you gave. I see it often enough when I drive that way, and I would say that it is moving forward slowly. I doubt that it will be finished on schedule but I also suspect that your contract includes something about up to 6 months delay being acceptable. This is a fairly common clause here. I think there is a reasonable chance of it being finished in that time frame. Of course that doesnt mean that there wont be any issues later with bank loans and chanotes, but for your sake hopefully not.

Elsewhere you mention prices commonly starting low and going up as a building nears completion, which is often true but does depend very much on demand. I prefer to look at is as big discounts being available early on as that is when the developer often wants a lot of contracts signed in order to get the bank loans released. And inevitably the earlier you sign the more risk you take. Of course with bigger self-funded developers this is less of an issue and so the possible early discounts also tend to be smaller.
In the current climate of poor sales I am seeing more last-minute discounts on buildings that are close to being finished, presumably to drum up demand.

I get the impression that marketing etc. forms a very large part of the costing of most units these days, which explains why you often need to get a hefty discount in order to end up with something that has a chance of being worth what you paid for it later.

[wrapper]

25 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

I know which building this is, but I wont mention the name for the reasons you gave. I see it often enough when I drive that way, and I would say that it is moving forward slowly. I doubt that it will be finished on schedule but I also suspect that your contract includes something about up to 6 months delay being acceptable. This is a fairly common clause here. I think there is a reasonable chance of it being finished in that time frame. Of course that doesnt mean that there wont be any issues later with bank loans and chanotes, but for your sake hopefully not..

just some of the many reasons i should never have bought, my contract is for foreign ownership and there is no clause for any delay, initially i mistook thailand for being a normal country with fair laws but now not sure how valid my contract is after reading what a lot of guys on here have to say but hopefully my contract is as legally binding as it would be in most other countries

Edited January 4, 2018 by wrapper

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, wrapper said:

initially i mistook thailand for being a normal country with fair laws

Many people make that mistake.