Retirement Visa problem - New Rules

[Billyboy294]

4 hours ago, mcjimmys said:

Another question I have is, Why does someone who is married only need to have 400,000 baht in the bank? They have twice the expenses that I do. How can life be cheaper if you are married and have a family than if you are single? Very confusing indeed. I am sure the Big Joke has it all figured out.  Just my thoughts 

No more barfines and Ladydrinks.

[GlobalTraveler]

They have a Banker they pay off who supplies the page with money in for  3 months. They add it on the counter to your bank book and immediately take it out. Then they  change the dates manually.

[Pheat]

8 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

what % of thai population earn that, i imagine a low %, many seem to earn around the 10-20k a month

Does not matter how much a Thai earns a month..

The issue is the Thai government is cracking down on foreigners on a low income who navigate the visa rules by using an agent to put 800K in a bank account

The Thai government no longer wants this type of foreigner staying in Thailand for long periods of time so is doing something about it .

[Tarl]

4 minutes ago, Pheat said:

Does not matter how much a Thai earns a month..

The issue is the Thai government is cracking down on foreigners on a low income who navigate the visa rules by using an agent to put 800K in a bank account

The Thai government no longer wants this type of foreigner staying in Thailand for long periods of time so is doing something about it .

This being a crackdown on visa agents is just another assumption really. Previous post quoting the authorities on this certainly didn't say that.

There are much simpler ways to crack down on that without tying up expat monies for a year and changing the rules.

Personally if they were going to change the rules it would have been good to see them include expat assets and annual expenditure. In the end if it is about authorities concerned over expats not spending money then what is to say high income earners are actually spending that income.

[Oukiva]

28 minutes ago, Tarl said:

This being a crackdown on visa agents is just another assumption really. Previous post quoting the authorities on this certainly didn't say that. //

Seriously? See my posts from Thursday, page 2 :

On 31/01/2019 at 19:51, Oukiva said:

The new requirements are likely the result of immigration officials trying to put an end to the practice of visa agents falsifying bank statements for foreigners who do not have enough money to meet the financial requirements needed for a retirement extension.

 

[Tarl]

22 minutes ago, Oukiva said:

Seriously? See my posts from Thursday, page 2 :

 

Exactly they are not saying they are but “are likely”. Obviously if they were they would not be speculating on the them being likely but would just say they are. 

Thanks for that quote.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Tarl

[xtremedude]

The current requirement is to have 800K in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to extension, but somehow the visa agents are able to fake this.  So what's to prevent visa agents from coming up with false document indicating that 800K was kept in account for 3 months after approval?  It seems to me if the former can be done, certainly the latter can be done as well.  It probably just means an extra cost to expats utilizing visa agents.

[Scuba+]

The current requirement is to have 800K in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to extension, but somehow the visa agents are able to fake this.  So what's to prevent visa agents from coming up with false document indicating that 800K was kept in account for 3 months after approval?  It seems to me if the former can be done, certainly the latter can be done as well.  It probably just means an extra cost to expats utilizing visa agents.

Apparently the top guy at immigration Jomtien can sign off the extension if the 3 month seeding not done, that was how they got through before. Maybe he hasn't got the power to do the same after

[SteveX08]

9 hours ago, Billyboy294 said:

No more barfines and Ladydrinks.

Yes, but they are substituted with cars and houses...

[Lubudi]

2 hours ago, SteveX08 said:

Yes, but they are substituted with cars and houses...

Yes ! I can vouch for that.

 Now that I'm living with a permanent TGF the money I have now "invested" in her in houses (2), car, land etc is much , much more than what I was spending in Pattaya on beerbar girls and studio rental before I settled down. And not being legally married to her I still have to rely on the blocked 800k 

[usexpat46]

9 minutes ago, Lubudi said:

Yes ! I can vouch for that.

 Now that I'm living with a permanent TGF the money I have now "invested" in her in houses (2), car, land etc is much , much more than what I was spending in Pattaya on beerbar girls and studio rental before I settled down. And not being legally married to her I still have to rely on the blocked 800k 

Why not get legally married?  I don't know about your country but at least in America your tax liability to the Feds and most states is reduced.

[Lubudi]

11 minutes ago, usexpat46 said:

Why not get legally married?  I don't know about your country but at least in America your tax liability to the Feds and most states is reduced.

Good question !!

I've never been married and I just don't want to be !!

 

[usexpat46]

4 minutes ago, Lubudi said:

Good question !!

I've never been married and I just don't want to be !!

 

I waited until I was 70 before I pulled the trigger.  Lived with the TG for about 12 years prior and would have had more $$$ if I would have gotten married earlier instead of having the Feds and California wasting the money.

[Garzan]

26 minutes ago, usexpat46 said:

Why not get legally married?  I don't know about your country but at least in America your tax liability to the Feds and most states is reduced.

:-) I got my LBTD several years back. 555 

[Pheat]

13 hours ago, Tarl said:

This being a crackdown on visa agents is just another assumption really. Previous post quoting the authorities on this certainly didn't say that.

A mate who has been doing the 800K in and out via an agent was told last week by his agent .

This will no longer be possible very shorty and he has been doing this for over 9 years and pays the agent 28K a year for the service .

He is basically f@cked he has not got £20,000 .

 

[brutox]

Head's up, men .. this is a big one.

BillyBoy294 started this thread perhaps unaware of where it would all go .. Thai public policy is commonly poorly conceived and even more poorly executed, and seems to migrate around before settling into a poor public policy.

BillyBoy294's early post cited a complication for retirees who haven't the financial means to qualify .. the 'certification' of their financial resources by their embassies, which we all know are patently faked .. (the Thai government knows it, too).

So, here we go .. the government is now moving the goal post much farther down the pitch .. unsurprising.

The latest rule change tightens requirements, in my view far more so than the income verification changes about which this thread first started.

Get this .. per police order No. 35/2561, retirees must now:

• Maintain THB 800,000 in bank account for 2 months PRIOR to application; AND,
• Maintain THB 800,000 in bank account for 3 months AFTER the retirement visa is issued; AND,
• Maintain THB 400,000 in bank account throughout the balance of the visa's validity.

[I guess these balances would be confirmed with each 90-day report.]

This will likely clean-up the retirees with insufficient funds to qualify to live here, and are here only by circumventing the system by illegal means .. apparently, Thai visa processing consultants working with banks to falisify bank records for a fee has proved to be a problem .. this would probably kill that.

I did not dig too deeply, but read nothing about the actual implementation of the order, and if/how it will be enforced .. or, maybe amended .. or, maybe enforced selectively at the local level (as so much immigration policy is here) .. or, even how this "police rule" complies with what I would have thought should be an "immigration rule" .. or, maybe new creative work arounds arising to circumvent the law.

The government is trying to clean-up the widespread illegal immigrant mess they have because endemic corruption prohibits their existing rules from working .. seems they are creating a greater mess treating the symptoms of the problem, rather than treating the problem.

But .. mmmm .. maybe this is what they HAVE to do to deal with the corruption that invariably subverts Thai rule of law at virtually every level of Thai society .. local and farang.

Read on .. https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thai-immigration-clamps-down-on-requirements-for-retirement-visas

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by brutox

[Scuba+]

A mate who has been doing the 800K in and out via an agent was told last week by his agent .

This will no longer be possible very shorty and he has been doing this for over 9 years and pays the agent 28K a year for the service .

He is basically f@cked he has not got £20,000 .

 

Some falang with money issues may choose to re circulate the monthly 65k income method back and forth to falangland

 

[brutox]

41 minutes ago, Scuba+ said:

Some falang with money issues may choose to re circulate the monthly 65k income method back and forth to falangland

 

Hey, Scuba+ .. I am guessing that would be more easily accomplished before the government cracked down on the certification of financial means policy, about which BillyBoy294 initially posted .. does re-cycling the monthly income avoid that issue?

Man, that just seems so simple .. would the government's new policy on financial certification detect that?

Edited February 4, 2019 by brutox

[forcebwithu]

1 hour ago, brutox said:

Head's up, men .. this is a big one.

BillyBoy294 started this thread perhaps unaware of where it would all go .. Thai public policy is commonly poorly conceived and even more poorly executed, and seems to migrate around before settling into a poor public policy.

BillyBoy294's early post cited a complication for retirees who haven't the financial means to qualify .. the 'certification' of their financial resources by their embassies, which we all know are patently faked .. (the Thai government knows it, too).

So, here we go .. the government is now moving the goal post much farther down the pitch .. unsurprising.
...

You would have to go back page 2, but the same info was posted there. That reignited this topic with seven pages and counting of new posts on the change.

 

[brutox]

1 hour ago, brutox said:

Head's up, men .. this is a big one ...

 

 

5 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

You would have to go back page 2, but the same info was posted there. That reignited this topic with seven pages and counting of new posts on the change ...

 

Yup, I missed it, forcebewithu .. sorry for the unnecessary clutter, men .. this was all new to me this morning, so I will read back through the discussion .. thanks.

[Scuba+]

Hey, Scuba+ .. I am guessing that would be more easily accomplished before the government cracked down on the certification of financial means policy, about which BillyBoy294 initially posted .. does re-cycling the monthly income avoid that issue?

Man, that just seems so simple .. would the government's new policy on financial certification detect that?

it seems they will just be looking at International transfers in, they won't be analysing transfers out to other accounts. Some people have bills to pay back in farangland so will need to transfer back

[forcebwithu]

2 minutes ago, brutox said:

 

Yup, I missed it, forcebewithu .. sorry for the unnecessary clutter, men .. this was all new to me this morning, so I will read back through the discussion .. thanks.

For not having read the prior discussion I think your post was a very good summary.

[brutox]

14 minutes ago, Scuba+ said:

31 minutes ago, brutox said:

Hey, Scuba+ .. I am guessing that would be more easily accomplished before the government cracked down on the certification of financial means policy, about which BillyBoy294 initially posted .. does re-cycling the monthly income avoid that issue?

Man, that just seems so simple .. would the government's new policy on financial certification detect that?

it seems they will just be looking at International transfers in, they won't be analysing transfers out to other accounts. Some people have bills to pay back in farangland so will need to transfer back

Stop me now if I am opening an issue that is discussed earlier, and I will read back through this thread.

But .. but .. money being re-cycled can be manipulated to fall short of the minimum THB 65,000 monthly income .. a guy living here on THB 25,000 per month could hack the system with an actual annual income of only THB 365,000 [(25,000 x 12) + 65,000] .. less than the minimum THB 780,000 [65,000 x 12].

Does the government require a certification of that monthly income? .. pension statement? .. retirement account? .. anything? .. if not certified, how is that monthly income verified to the satisfaction of the Thai government?
 

Edited February 4, 2019 by brutox

[forcebwithu]

12 minutes ago, brutox said:

Stop me now if I am opening an issue that is discussed earlier, and I will read back through this thread.

But .. but .. money being re-cycled can be manipulated to fall short of the minimum THB 65,000 monthly income .. a guy living here on THB 25,000 per month could hack the system with an actual annual income of only THB 365,000 [(25,000 x 12) + 65,000] .. less than the minimum THB 780,000 [65,000 x 12].

Does the government require a certification of that monthly income? .. pension statement? .. retirement account? .. anything? .. if not certified, how is that monthly income verified to the satisfaction of the Thai government?
 

Those are all questions that have not been answered. And apparently even the IO's tasked with enforcing the new rule don't know. Here's an article that was previously mentioned in a prior post.

NEW RETIREE VISA RULES BEWILDER THAI IMMIGRATION

[kane666]

11 minutes ago, brutox said:

Stop me now if I am opening an issue that is discussed earlier, and I will read back through this thread.

But .. but .. money being re-cycled can be manipulated to fall short of the minimum THB 65,000 monthly income .. a guy living here on THB 25,000 per month could hack the system with an actual annual income of only THB 365,000 [(25,000 x 12) + 65,000] .. less than the minimum THB 780,000 [65,000 x 12].

Does the government require a certification of that monthly income? .. pension statement? .. retirement account? .. anything? .. if not certified, how is that monthly income verified to the satisfaction of the Thai government?
 

Bottom line is nobody really knows yet. Most things I have read say as long as the 65k shows as a foreign xfer into your Thai bank then that's good enough. In theory they shouldn't care whether it is a pension, dividends, rental income, salary from a business etc, they just want to see 65k x 12 foreign xfers into a Thai bank. We won't know until people actually start trying to get their extensions.

Or until Thai Immigration clarify and make sure all IO's follow the clarification. (and yes, that is a joke)