Retirement Visa problem - New Rules

[forcebwithu]

9 minutes ago, Tarl said:

Thinking that is the safest way to go to get my extension as well and then immediately start monthly deposits so next year I can go with that option. Will just mean parking 800k in the bank for 5 months just once.

If you switch to the monthly deposit method, I think you s/b able to start using the 800k immediately after your extension renewal. To be safe on that assumption it will definitely be a question I'll ask the IO.

[Jebb]

I have some information that may help a small percentage of the BMs who are affected by these changes.

This is my situation, I have a Thai wife that I am separated from but still on good terms with. We have a house in Pattaya that we bought together but obviously is in her name. She wants to stay in Oz and work, I want to live in Pattaya and play. We both respect this. I have gone every year for the last 3 years to the Thai consulate in Brisbane and apply for a Non Immigrant O Visa which allows me to stay for 1 year but have to leave the country every 3 months. It costs $275 Au. You need a passport photo, Passport copy, wedding certificate copy, evidence of $8,000 Au in bank at the date of application, a letter written in Thai from spouse giving you permission to live at the house. They will take your passport and mail it back to you in 3 days. The most important thing is to state that the reason for applying for this visa is "Spousal/Family visit" so that you can spend time with your wife's family (Yeah right!). There are other reasons such as for Education, Language, Teaching, Sports which you will have to show qualifications and enrollment. Don't go there. I have attached the relevant Form A. Form A.pdf.

When you enter Thailand it is most important that you quote the Visa number and the address you provided the Consulate on your arrival card.

Again, this will not be for everyone but if it helps a small percentage of BM's with a current Thai wife then it certainly beats the current shit fight and is much cheaper and easier. It has worked for me for the last 3 years. Good luck guys.

[cbmgolfer]

It’s all a joke IMO.  I tried to get a marriage visa 3 years ago ... the immi officer in charge told me to do retirement visa because “it’s easier for them”.  Ok, got a retirement visa ... even though I’m not retired.  I literally spent 3 weeks in Thailand in 2018.  We live outside the kingdom.  Went in late Dec to renew my visa, the officer (same guy I dealt w previously) asked for a number of additional documents, etc... stuff they never asked for before (like a copy of every page of my bank book).  TBH, he  looked scared of his bosses ... my wife said so also ... they are making it really hard for them.  

I said to him "look, I don’t even want a retirement visa, I only did it to accomodate you guys.  I’m married to a Thai, I have a house, a car, pay for kids in uni... why don’t I have a marriage visa?".  He then said to my wife (in Thai) ... please go get these documents and we will renew the retirement visa, no problem.  So, off we go to fill up the mindless requests for paperwork.  When we came back, everybody is happy, all ok, stamp, stamp.  Visa approved.

what a fucking joke.  

 

As a a side note, I have told a number of Thai immi officers that BTW, my wife was given a 10 year multi entry visa to the US based on our marriage docs.  Each entry is max 6 month stay. No reporting, no questions asked.  They never know what to say ... Thailand has no concept of anything other than inward looking "Thainess".

Edited February 3, 2019 by cbmgolfer

[kansuwan]

3 hours ago, Encora said:

Not correct. Kasikorn uses a code you can see in your savings book to identify foreign transfers. I had mine ticked in my passbook, copied on a separate sheet of paper, and they added up to 1.3 M baht last year. But they weren't acceptable because it was four or five transactions, instead of 12 monthly transactions...

Fair enough - I chose the word "seems" on the basis that not everything on Thai Visa is correct. 

The more folks post here about their visa extension experiences the better.

Keep bugling!

[Pheat]

15 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

Daft really, Immigration just get in the way of people spending money

But the Thailand government no longer wants poor foreigners staying in Thailand for long periods of time and navigating the rules by using an agent to put the 800K into a bank account for a ST.

Thailand has enough poor people already.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Pheat

[southsidebruce]

For a retirement visa, when you park 800,000 THB money in a Thai bank, does it have to be in a certain type of account?  Can you put it into a Certificate(of)Deposit (aka CD), aka time deposit - that earns better interest?  or does it have to be in a regular savings account, making it as Liquid as possible?

[mcjimmys]

As far as I know it has to be in a regular Thai bank account. I made 4,000 baht interest  with my 800,000 baht last year in K bank. Better interest  than banks in America sadly 

[Soi7]

9 minutes ago, southsidebruce said:

For a retirement visa, when you park 800,000 THB money in a Thai bank, does it have to be in a certain type of account?  Can you put it into a Certificate(of)Deposit (aka CD), aka time deposit - that earns better interest?  or does it have to be in a regular savings account, making it as liquid as possible?

My time deposit with Bangkok Bank has always been accepted

[Scuba+]

But the Thailand government no longer wants poor foreigners staying in Thailand for long periods of time and navigating the rules by using an agent to put the 800K into a bank account for a ST.
Thailand has enough poor people already.

Seems to be causing issues for falang at many income levels, 50k, 60k, 70k whatever, what % of thai population earn that, i imagine a low %, many seem to earn around the 10-20k a month

[southsidebruce]

1 hour ago, Soi7 said:

My time deposit with Bangkok Bank has always been accepted

thanks - good to know... how good is the interest rate at BBK bank with their time deposits?  oh, wait a damn second... we have a thang called TheGoogle... this is what I found - and it appears that 2.5% interest is about the best, but not sure as I don't read Thai characters, although some Thai characters I can read like a book (only kidding)... and to compare, interest rates from Pentagon Federal Credit Union in the States... 

 

 

https://www.penfed.org/accounts/money-market-certificate

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by southsidebruce
added information

[Scuba+]

Not correct. Kasikorn uses a code you can see in your savings book to identify foreign transfers. I had mine ticked in my passbook, copied on a separate sheet of paper, and they added up to 1.3 M baht last year. But they weren't acceptable because it was four or five transactions, instead of 12 monthly transactions...
 
 

My Kasikorn also shows swifts from my UK bank as international

[Scuba+]

I still don't think they care about statements and bank books at this point, only letters from banks and embassies. I could be wrong.

Yep you are wrong. From reports the bank issues the standard letter but statements are required to show the monthly transfers if income method used. Statements will most likely be required also to prove the 800k in the account for 5 months as bank books can consolidate transactions

[dave01]

18 hours ago, expatdude said:

(SNIP)

Printouts have never worked before for Thai immigration. I'd be astonished if they do now.

(SNIP)

Read the first 3 points of the order.... How else, other than a bankbook or print out do you think they will want you to prove it? The rules for retirement are MONTHLY deposits of at least 65K.  Fairly straight forward, I would have thought.. For marriage it is a different requirement... an AVERAGE over 12 months totalling no less than 400K

[Soi7]

thanks - good to know... how good is the interest rate at BBK bank with their time deposits?  oh, wait a damn second... we have a thang called TheGoogle... this is what I found - and it appears that 2.5% interest is about the best, but not sure as I don't read Thai characters, although some Thai characters I can read like a book (only kidding)... and to compare, interest rates from Pentagon Federal Credit Union in the States... 
 

 
https://www.penfed.org/accounts/money-market-certificate
 

1.5% on my 1 year TD

Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk

[Scuba+]

Read the first 3 points of the order.... How else, other than a bankbook or print out do you think they will want you to prove it? The rules for retirement are MONTHLY deposits of at least 65K.  Fairly straight forward, I would have thought.. For marriage it is a different requirement... an AVERAGE over 12 months totalling no less than 400K

Plus combination method allowed

[regyai]

So does the 800K parked have to be an 'active' account (in that living expenses are withdrawn over the year and ultimately topped up again ) or can it just be deposited and left in situ in perpetuity to placate immo (until such time as the next grand moving of the goalposts)?

[Soi7]

53 minutes ago, regyai said:

So does the 800K parked have to be an 'active' account (in that living expenses are withdrawn over the year and ultimately topped up again ) or can it just be deposited and left in situ in perpetuity to placate immo (until such time as the next grand moving of the goalposts)?

Mine was in a time deposit never touched just leave it parked never been an issue

[regyai]

c’est ça

[Thaifix]

I am a little lost by the Math here - I am NOT being contentious just genuinely confused.

What exactly is the issue of keeping 800k in the bank permanently? From what I can see the "loss" compared to a standard deposit account in the UK (cant speak for elsewhere) is around 1% or 8000 Baht. No-one wants to "lose" 8000 Baht but its a lot less than going home for new Visas etc.

If the argument is that the money could be "invested" for a much higher rate - then yes but most "investors" keep money on deposit also anyway.

Maybe i am just being thick! 

I keep around 1.5m in banks here, and have done so for 20+ years, so yeah I probably lose 15k a year in interest but 15k to save all this hassle seems a small price to pay.

[kane666]

2 minutes ago, Thaifix said:

I am a little lost by the Math here - I am NOT being contentious just genuinely confused.

What exactly is the issue of keeping 800k in the bank permanently? From what I can see the "loss" compared to a standard deposit account in the UK (cant speak for elsewhere) is around 1% or 8000 Baht. No-one wants to "lose" 8000 Baht but its a lot less than going home for new Visas etc.

If the argument is that the money could be "invested" for a much higher rate - then yes but most "investors" keep money on deposit also anyway.

Maybe i am just being thick! 

I keep around 1.5m in banks here, and have done so for 20+ years, so yeah I probably lose 15k a year in interest but 15k to save all this hassle seems a small price to pay.

Because you get one group of people who say OMG I can make 6% 7% 8% etc on my money NO WAY I'm leaving it sitting in a Thai bank earning 1.5%.

Then you get another group saying OMG I'm not leaving ANY money in an unsafe unreliable Thai bank who will probably steal all my money when I'm not looking or the bank will fail and I'll lose the lot.

So no, you aren't being thick.

[Thaifix]

7 minutes ago, kane666 said:

Because you get one group of people who say OMG I can make 6% 7% 8% etc on my money NO WAY I'm leaving it sitting in a Thai bank earning 1.5%.

Then you get another group saying OMG I'm not leaving ANY money in an unsafe unreliable Thai bank who will probably steal all my money when I'm not looking or the bank will fail and I'll lose the lot.

So no, you aren't being thick.

Well 

To the first group i would assume they spread their money anyway. Most people, with common sense, would do that i would guess which means they always have SOME money on deposit at 1.5%. If they don't that is their CHOICE so they dont really have an argument anyway.

Second group - pisshhhhhh. ALL banks everywhere have some risk regarding their systems but Thai banks are no less reliable than any bank anywhere. TBH that is utter tosh. In 20 years i have had two "incidents", both involving ATMs not actually paying out and in both cases the money was refunded in hours. Thailand per se may be a bit backward but its banks are just the same as anywhere. I am sure many people have horror stories about Thai banks - the same as you read horror stories about HSBC in Hong Kong or Llloyds in London.

Whatever, it still baffles me that its such a big deal. Even if you lose 30k in interest, whcih i DO accept is not nice, its still less than the price of going home to renew non Imms;

Edited February 3, 2019 by Thaifix

[Thaifix]

As a slight aside is it "in a Thai bank" or "in a bank in Thailand"? If the latter there are many foreign banks with branches and offices in Bangkok. HSBC and Barclays for example.

[Tarl]

7 minutes ago, Thaifix said:

Well 

To the first group i would assume they spread their money anyway. Most people, with common sense, would do that i would guess which means they always have SOME money on deposit at 1.5%. If they don't that is their CHOICE so they dont really have an argument anyway.

Second group - pisshhhhhh. ALL banks everywhere have some risk regarding their systems but Thai banks are no less reliable than any bank anywhere. TBH that is utter tosh. In 20 years i have had two "incidents", both involving ATMs not actually paying out and in both cases the money was refunded in hours. Thailand per se may be a bit backward but its banks are just the same as anywhere. I am sure many people have horror stories about Thai banks - the same as you read horror stories about HSBC in Hong Kong or Llloyds in London.

Whatever, it still baffles me that its such a big deal. Even if you lose 30k in interest, whcih i DO accept is not nice, its still less than the price of going home to renew non Imms;

An example maybe is people have their money invested. Parking 800k that could earn you 6% is a loss of 48,000 baht. This gets less if it is parked for 6 months and then 400k parked for 6 months. On top of this loss people need to still transfer funds to live on as they cannot use the 800,000 and then 400,000.

Coupled with that is many expats already have large sums of money unavailable to them due to buying a condo/house, car, motorbike, whitegoods etc as they setup their retirement here. 

Additional to that is the large drop in currency exchange over the last decade.

Bottom line is there is only so much money available to them and while some can afford to absorb drops in currency and losing a further 30k to 40k a year others will struggle.

The option for many who have sold up and moved completely to Thailand to return to their home country is expensive and not possible factoring in flights, accommodation, meals etc.

[mcjimmys]

So to sum it all up, you will either need to show that you have at least 65,000 baht a month coming into your Thai bank account each month. 12 deposits per year of at least 65,000 baht or you must bring over 800,000 baht and that money can not be touched for 6 months. 3 months before your visa and 3 months after. So in reality you need money to live on on top of the 800,000 baht. Thailand = a cheap place to retire. Well maybe not. As a reference. I have my own condo here, so I do not pay rent. I do not drink or  go to bars or fuck Thai prostitutes. I do enjoy going to the beach every day and I eat well. For the past 3 years my average monthly living experience is 20,000 baht per month and I do enjoy my life.  My question is why do I need to have so much money here? Another question I have is, Why does someone who is married only need to have 400,000 baht in the bank? They have twice the expenses that I do. How can life be cheaper if you are married and have a family than if you are single? Very confusing indeed. I am sure the Big Joke has it all figured out.  Just my thoughts 

[Thaifix]

2 minutes ago, Tarl said:

An example maybe is people have their money invested. Parking 800k that could earn you 6% is a loss of 48,000 baht. This gets less if it is parked for 6 months and then 400k parked for 6 months. On top of this loss people need to still transfer funds to live on as they cannot use the 800,000 and then 400,000.

Coupled with that is many expats already have large sums of money unavailable to them due to buying a condo/house, car, motorbike, whitegoods etc as they setup their retirement here. 

Additional to that is the large drop in currency exchange over the last decade.

Bottom line is there is only so much money available to them and while some can afford to absorb drops in currency and losing a further 30k to 40k a year others will struggle.

The option for many who have sold up and moved completely to Thailand to return to their home country is expensive and not possible factoring in flights, accommodation, meals etc.

I understand your points but the bit I have highlighted is interesting. I have NO currency fluctuation on my deposits here. Perhaps another variable to consider.