Retirement Visa problem - New Rules

[Oukiva]

12 minutes ago, expatdude said:

I imagine walking into a bank and saying "I need you to certify I've had 800,000 for the last 3 months, will have 800,000 three months from now, and after that I will have 400,000." That's gonna be fun.

Or I imagine walking in and saying "I transferred 40,000 baht a month every month and also have 400,000 in savings and I need you to certify that and that I will continue to have/do that."

Banks didn't verify before that you had 800k during 3 months; they just certified that your account was a real valid one.

So - very probably - they will not verify either that you had 800/400k all year long or that you made monthly transfers.

That was and will be the Immigration Officer job.

[Encora]

1 hour ago, expatdude said:

Is sending money out of the country so easy? If so, each time you transfer (each way!) you incur losses due to transfer fees and exchange rates. I haven't crunched the numbers but I'm guessing just putting the 800,000 in for the whole year would be cheaper if you have enough to do that.

Relatively easy from NZ to LOS, but indeed, each transaction costs more then if done with fewer larger transactions. Until recently, I transferred three or four times a year, as needed, but a total of well over 800K each year. Last year, due to car replacement, it was 1.3 K
But when I came to renew my visa, showing both my overseas bank account statements, and the Thai bank, which showed money going out of the first on a certain date, then coming into the Thai Bank straight after, they weren't interested. "Must be 65K pr more each month...."

I could afford to do it the right way, if I know which will be the right way next time around.

 

[Tarl]

1 hour ago, Oukiva said:

Banks didn't verify before that you had 800k during 3 months; they just certified that your account was a real valid one.

So - very probably - they will not verify either that you had 800/400k all year long or that you made monthly transfers.

That was and will be the Immigration Officer job.

So what they require us to provide from the bank and whether the bank will provide it so it can be provided to Immigration is what?

[Lambik]

Some, like myself, are still lucky. 

Being Belgian and having a pension higher than 65000 Thb monthly, I still can have a L. o. I. at the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya. 

No need to have 800000 on a bank account, and can transfer the money I want, when I want, no minimum required. 

So far, so good. 

Till... 

 

[Tarl]

1 hour ago, expatdude said:

That is only one possible complication (having multiple accounts where money was transferred).

I imagine walking into a bank and saying "I need you to certify I've had 800,000 for the last 3 months, will have 800,000 three months from now, and after that I will have 400,000." That's gonna be fun.

Or I imagine walking in and saying "I transferred 40,000 baht a month every month and also have 400,000 in savings and I need you to certify that and that I will continue to have/do that."

It will be interesting to see how things will shake out and how the banks will deal with all this. Will they create accounts specifically for this situation? There's a lot of information that has yet to come out, and I am almost sure they haven't thought these things out to their logical conclusions yet.

Is sending money out of the country so easy? If so, each time you transfer (each way!) you incur losses due to transfer fees and exchange rates. I haven't crunched the numbers but I'm guessing just putting the 800,000 in for the whole year would be cheaper if you have enough to do that.

Was looking at this earlier today. Bank exchange rates very poor so will be substantial costs along with transfer fees. On the other side tying up 800k for 5 months in addition to 400k for 7 months also results in substantial losses. My accountant just based on my last years figures estimated I will lose a minimum of 45k baht a year from portfolio earnings.

[ex-pat]

8 hours ago, Encora said:

 

Force be with you:
"From what I read you just need your Thai account showing money coming in from an international source. There was a discussion that this is a problem for those using Transferwise as they transfer money into your Thai account from another Thai bank, so nothing on the transfer to indicate it came from an international source."

 

I have regular transfers from both the USA and Canada to Krungsri and UOB. There is nothing to indicate that they come from overseas. I doubt the banks would want to get into certifying that. 

[Oukiva]

17 minutes ago, Tarl said:

So what they require us to provide from the bank and whether the bank will provide it so it can be provided to Immigration is what?

I am not 100% sure as I don't use this option, but from what I heard :

Banks make no problem to deliver a letter confirming the account exists, and if needed a listing of your operations on this account. You may have to pay a fee for both of them. Getting data more than 6 months old may be not immediate. Some banks (Krungsi?) seem able to deliver a filtered listing of international transfers only. 

[dave01]

16 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

From what I read you just need your Thai account showing money coming in from an international source. There was a discussion that this is a problem for those using Transferwise as they transfer money into your Thai account from another Thai bank, so nothing on the transfer to indicate it came from an international source.

I use transferwise, Bank with BKK Bank, and every deposit from Transferwise is  clearly shown as "international transfer".  Don't know about other banks.

[Tarl]

6 minutes ago, Oukiva said:

I am not 100% sure as I don't use this option, but from what I heard :

Banks make no problem to deliver a letter confirming the account exists, and if needed a listing of your operations on this account. You may have to pay a fee for both of them. Getting data more than 6 months old may be not immediate. Some banks (Krungsi?) seem able to deliver a filtered listing of international transfers only. 

So could be an issue from the sounds of that.  Be interesting how this is all going to work.

[Tarl]

2 minutes ago, dave01 said:

I use transferwise, Bank with BKK Bank, and every deposit from Transferwise is  clearly shown as "international transfer".  Don't know about other banks.

Thanks for that. Will pass that info onto a few friends. Great info to help them minimise their monthly transfer costs. Maybe the way I go in future as well.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Tarl

[dave01]

22 Jan 2019 14:02

International Transfer

xxxxxxxxx

That is how BKK Bank shows a transfer from Transferwise (the x's are the amount)...

[SteveX08]

Yes.  TransferWise use Bangkok Bank to process all their transfers into Thailand.   The funds are then transferred to whatever local bank you use.  Might be easiest just to open a new BB account.

[Soi7]

Whatever the case it will turn into an old fashion Ethiopian  clusterfuck before it is all said and done

[Srirachapocalypse]

9 minutes ago, Soi7 said:

Whatever the case it will turn into an old fashion Ethiopian  clusterfuck before it is all said and done

My goodness, I've only been involved in Mongolian Clusterfucks, I'm curious if the Ethiopian version is better or worse  

I'm starting to again wonder if it might be worth re-assessing the Thai Elite visa thing, if I'm gonna blow $30,000 it might be kind of neat having all the VIP perks and the office in Bangkok taking care of most of the other visa related annoyances. Still a couple years out from retirement, so hopefully this shakes out by then before I have to worry about any major decisions.

[Barhop]

1 hour ago, Tarl said:

Was looking at this earlier today. Bank exchange rates very poor so will be substantial costs along with transfer fees. On the other side tying up 800k for 5 months in addition to 400k for 7 months also results in substantial losses. My accountant just based on my last years figures estimated I will lose a minimum of 45k baht a year from portfolio earnings.

Have no idea if this could work for you but I use Bahtsmart to transfer money back to Thailand from the TG who gives me a massage in Adelaide each week.  They charge zero fees at either end and the exchange rate is not too bad.

There is a printable record of all these transactions available.  Wonder if they would wear this as evidence if one was to transfer the 65B each month???  Just throwing up an idea that might help.  Cheers

 

[Barhop]

7 minutes ago, Barhop said:

There is a printable record of all these transactions available.  Wonder if they would wear this as evidence if one was to transfer the 65B each month???  Just throwing up an idea that might help.  Cheers

Oh bugga...just realized that as you log into your account, there is a thai or english box to tick.  One could even print it all out in Thai I guess..

[expatdude]

3 hours ago, Encora said:

Relatively easy from NZ to LOS, but indeed, each transaction costs more then if done with fewer larger transactions. Until recently, I transferred three or four times a year, as needed, but a total of well over 800K each year. Last year, due to car replacement, it was 1.3 K
But when I came to renew my visa, showing both my overseas bank account statements, and the Thai bank, which showed money going out of the first on a certain date, then coming into the Thai Bank straight after, they weren't interested. "Must be 65K pr more each month...."

I could afford to do it the right way, if I know which will be the right way next time around.

Yeah, things have yet to be clarified. Nobody knows what they will require--I'm pretty sure even they don't know at this point. That makes it useless to speculate for a while.

2 hours ago, Tarl said:

So what they require us to provide from the bank and whether the bank will provide it so it can be provided to Immigration is what?

See above.

1 hour ago, Soi7 said:

Whatever the case it will turn into an old fashion Ethiopian  clusterfuck before it is all said and done

Yes, that's the only speculation that makes any sense at this point.

1 hour ago, Srirachapocalypse said:

I'm starting to again wonder if...

 

52 minutes ago, Barhop said:

Wonder if...

 

43 minutes ago, Barhop said:

Oh bugga...just realized that as you log into your account, there is a thai or english box to tick.  One could even print it all out in Thai I guess..

If you enjoy wondering, have fun, but at this point it's not clear to anybody.

[Barhop]

1 hour ago, expatdude said:

1 hour ago, expatdude said:

If you enjoy wondering, have fun, but at this point it's not clear to anybody.

 

Sorry, will not bother the thread ever, ever, ever again...

[Tarl]

3 hours ago, Barhop said:

Have no idea if this could work for you but I use Bahtsmart to transfer money back to Thailand from the TG who gives me a massage in Adelaide each week.  They charge zero fees at either end and the exchange rate is not too bad.

There is a printable record of all these transactions available.  Wonder if they would wear this as evidence if one was to transfer the 65B each month???  Just throwing up an idea that might help.  Cheers

 

Nice, certainly could be a good option. Thanks.

[Tarl]

3 hours ago, Srirachapocalypse said:

My goodness, I've only been involved in Mongolian Clusterfucks, I'm curious if the Ethiopian version is better or worse  

I'm starting to again wonder if it might be worth re-assessing the Thai Elite visa thing, if I'm gonna blow $30,000 it might be kind of neat having all the VIP perks and the office in Bangkok taking care of most of the other visa related annoyances. Still a couple years out from retirement, so hopefully this shakes out by then before I have to worry about any major decisions.

Once I look at my figures if I am losing anywhere near 30k to 50k baht a year or so I will look at their 20 year visa. 

[SteveX08]

1 hour ago, Tarl said:

Once I look at my figures if I am losing anywhere near 30k to 50k baht a year or so I will look at their 20 year visa. 

Not knowing your figures, 12 x 65,000 baht transfers with TransferWise will cost you a total of $252 AUD, about 5,800 baht for the year.   Obviously, your investments get drawn down gradually, but it shouldn’t have the same effect as 800/400K.

Edited February 2, 2019 by SteveX08

[dave01]

Re transferwise....  Just had a quick look at my account there, and it archives all your transfers, so you can print them out at any time... individually. The print outs *MAY* help when it comes to proving the source of the money in your Thai Bank Account (other, than it seems, BKK who already show it as international) if Immigration are looking for that... just a thought..

[jed§]

A friend who lives in Thailand sent me this link. If you don't feel like reading it, basically the story is this:- a Colonel in the government decides to change the visa rules for ex-pats. Meanwhile, immigration officials charged with carrying them out are bewildered because they don't know how they're going to do it. It's all as a result of some countries' embassies saying they're going to stop writing letters confirming the incomes of their nationals.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/02/01/new-retiree-visa-rules-bewilder-thai-immigration-source/?fbclid=IwAR3mBWwl_GXlCpKlhDBcdvwsm-Rt-_aaId3RvOCzM_PV1O5ocr4goM5ek64

It all sounds very much like the 'crackdown' on guest houses and probably dozens of similar, previous 'new' rules which are quickly ignored, side stepped or quietly dropped. TiT

Edited February 2, 2019 by jed§

[davidge]

14 minutes ago, jed§ said:

A friend who lives in Thailand sent me this link. If you don't feel like reading it, basically the story is this:- a Colonel in the government decides to change the visa rules for ex-pats. Meanwhile, immigration officials charged with carrying them out are bewildered because they don't know how they're going to do it. It's all as a result of some countries' embassies saying they're going to stop writing letters confirming the incomes of their nationals.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/02/01/new-retiree-visa-rules-bewilder-thai-immigration-source/?fbclid=IwAR3mBWwl_GXlCpKlhDBcdvwsm-Rt-_aaId3RvOCzM_PV1O5ocr4goM5ek64

It all sounds very much like the 'crackdown' on guest houses and probably dozens of similar, previous 'new' rules which are quickly ignored, side stepped or quietly dropped. TiT

Already posted in this thread yesterday!

[Tarl]

1 hour ago, SteveX08 said:

Not knowing your figures, 12 x 65,000 baht transfers with TransferWise will cost you a total of $252 AUD, about 5,800 baht for the year.   Obviously, your investments get drawn down gradually, but it shouldn’t have the same effect as 800/400K.

Yeah the 800/400k option just feels like I am throwing money away. Opening a Bkk bank account and organising an approximate 70k baht monthly withdrawal is a good scenario for me. Will set that up next month. My extension is due in September so will be able to show 7 mths only of the money being transferred which worries me. Not sure what combination of monthly transfers and money in the bank is satisfactory under the new rules.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Tarl