Retirement Visa problem - New Rules

[Billyboy294]

That is the one. Except that  there is now a German Consulate in Pattaya so he no longer acts for Germans.

As i understand it, he can act for  Nationals who do not have a Consulate in Pattaya.(or perhaps even an Embassy in Bangkok).

[Captain Dave]

On 15/02/2019 at 06:54, everard said:

You only addressed one point,what about the catch 22 issue of them wanting a letter from the British embassy who have stated they are not going to. Issue? Face up to it, it would appear a. Large proportion of ex pats who chose to 'make Thailand my home ' are going to get their marching orders shortly

I agree the letter from the Embassy is a problem for some who have no proof of income in Thailand.

But this is not a change made by the Thais, just a decision by the British Embassy.

As I posted, the only change the Thais have made - so far as I can see - is to crack down on the tactic used by some agents, of depositing money in clients accounts for a few days to evade their rules.

Just like the Education Visa abuses such a crack down on their rules was bound to occur at some point.

 

The Thais are well aware of the change to Embassy procedure regarding income letter and have said that if you can show regular income

into a Thai account of sufficient amount, this will suffice as proof of such income. 

They have not altered the totals required, so those who needed a letter confirming income from the Embassy will just have to

have the income paid into a Thai account - not really a problem for most I would have thought.

I get my pension paid into a Thai Sterling account, this took less than a day to set up.

 

I still feel that the main concern for UK retirees on limited income is the exchange rate and their income becoming less

than the minimum under the rules.

Again, this is not a change made by Thai Immigration, just the bloody Pound being effected by you-know-what.

 

I have every sympathy for expats on limited incomes finding things tough but I have yet to meet one who is being forced 

to return due to the new rules, and I meet lots of expats every day in my work.

No doubt there will be some, but 'large proportion' is overstating the case.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Captain Dave

[kane666]

https://www.thephuketnews.com/holding-the-balance- phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1-70401.php?fbclid=IwAR30oQ9EKLNgqvZqc3x4dA11VRYn83dJIJ7foBx4Dgb0YZYz7nkuqNAhCSA#3s2898VAtW77ow8z.97

[Scuba+]

https://www.thephuketnews.com/holding-the-balance- phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1-70401.php?fbclid=IwAR30oQ9EKLNgqvZqc3x4dA11VRYn83dJIJ7foBx4Dgb0YZYz7nkuqNAhCSA#3s2898VAtW77ow8z.97

The Grandfather rule seems to be a well kept secret. Guys i know have been here before 2008 don't seem to know about it.

Plus they are referring to Non imm O-A, where as most people concerned have a Non imm O?

[Scuba+]

https://www.thephuketnews.com/holding-the-balance- phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1-70401.php?fbclid=IwAR30oQ9EKLNgqvZqc3x4dA11VRYn83dJIJ7foBx4Dgb0YZYz7nkuqNAhCSA#3s2898VAtW77ow8z.97

This is quite an important point. I read threads where people with families are planning to leave them here and go back to falangland.

 

"the new provisions specifically do not apply to:

- People who have Thai families

- People supporting Thai families

- People whose spouses have (recently) passed away"

 

 

"People supporting Thai families" maybe sponsors are now included..

[kansuwan]

Thai Police Order 35/2561 January 2019 (posted above by Oukiva on 31 January) states that the Grandfather treatment is for those who were here on/before 21 October 1998.

?  

[Billyboy294]

RV.

PHUKET: Phuket Immigration this week clarified the new rules regarding applications for retirement visas, confirming only one major change: that for those applying using funds in a Thai bank account to support their application, a minimum of B400,000 must be kept in the account throughout the year.
Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/holding-the-balance- phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1-70401.php#QirbZ7TIiK23HU8j.99

 

“Under the new rules, the B800,000 must be in the account at least two months before applying for the visa (permit to stay) and must remained in the account for at least three months after the visa has been issued,” Col Acheep said.
Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/holding-the-balance- phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1-70401.php#QirbZ7TIiK23HU8j.99

 

 

Which is it?  B800,000  for 3months after Visa has been issued or a minimum of B400,000 throughout the year?

Edited February 16, 2019 by Billyboy294

[davidge]

11 minutes ago, kansuwan said:

Thai Police Order 35/2561 January 2019 (posted above by Oukiva on 31 January) states that the Grandfather treatment is for those who were here on/before 21 October 1998.

?  

Yes, and had continuous Extensions of Stay without break since then.

Top tip: ignore what you read in Thai local papers and what local immigration officers are quoted as saying 

[kane666]

2 minutes ago, Billyboy294 said:

RV.

PHUKET: Phuket Immigration this week clarified the new rules regarding applications for retirement visas, confirming only one major change: that for those applying using funds in a Thai bank account to support their application, a minimum of B400,000 must be kept in the account throughout the year.
Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/holding-the-balance- phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1-70401.php#QirbZ7TIiK23HU8j.99

 

“Under the new rules, the B800,000 must be in the account at least two months before applying for the visa (permit to stay) and must remained in the account for at least three months after the visa has been issued,” Col Acheep said.
Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/holding-the-balance- phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1-70401.php#QirbZ7TIiK23HU8j.99

 

 

Which is it?  B800,000  for 3months after Visa has been issued or a minimum of B400,000 throughout the year?

800,000 for 3 months after, then you can draw down to 400,000. Cannot go below 400,000 at any time.

[Scuba+]

Which is it?  B800,000  for 3months after Visa has been issued or a minimum of B400,000 throughout the year?

Minimum B400,000 throughout the year but also 800,000 for 3 months after visa issued. It's meant to be a simpler way of saying minimum 400k 7 months and minimum 800k 5 months

[kansuwan]

1 minute ago, Billyboy294 said:

Which is it?  B800,000  for 3months after Visa has been issued or a minimum of B400,000 throughout the year?

*THB 400,000 minimum all year,

*THB 800,000 two or three months prior to application (depends if its a new application or an extension)

and

* 800,000 in the three months after a successful application.

[Billyboy294]

Yes i know what the regulations say but i think  he is wrong or (misleading) in saying you must keep a minimum of B400,000  throughout the year when for three months after getting the Visa you must keep a minimum of B800,000.

Looks like a contradiction to me. I don't see the point in his initial statement.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Billyboy294

[kane666]

3 minutes ago, Billyboy294 said:

So he is wrong or (misleading) in saying you must keep a minimum of B400,000  throughout the year when for three months after getting the Visa you must keep a minimum of B800,000.

Looks like a contradiction to me. I don't see the point in his initial statement.

The initial statement (1st para) looks like it is from the reporter.

“Under the new rules, the B800,000 must be in the account at least two months before applying for the visa (permit to stay) and must remained in the account for at least three months after the visa has been issued,” Col Acheep said.

Again, financial statements from the relevant bank and copies of the bankbook are required in proving the funds are actually in the account, he added.

“After three months the foreigner can start withdrawing from the account, but under the new rules the balance in the account must not go below B400,000 at any time throughout the year,” Col Acheep explained.

That's pretty clear i would have thought?

[Billyboy294]

2 minutes ago, kane666 said:

The initial statement (1st para) looks like it is from the reporter.

“Under the new rules, the B800,000 must be in the account at least two months before applying for the visa (permit to stay) and must remained in the account for at least three months after the visa has been issued,” Col Acheep said.

Again, financial statements from the relevant bank and copies of the bankbook are required in proving the funds are actually in the account, he added.

“After three months the foreigner can start withdrawing from the account, but under the new rules the balance in the account must not go below B400,000 at any time throughout the year,” Col Acheep explained.

That's pretty clear i would have thought?

Yes the regulations are very clear , I just think the initial statement by Col Acheep was misleading.

[Oukiva]

1 hour ago, kane666 said:

https://www.thephuketnews.com/holding-the-balance- phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1-70401.php?fbclid=IwAR30oQ9EKLNgqvZqc3x4dA11VRYn83dJIJ7foBx4Dgb0YZYz7nkuqNAhCSA#3s2898VAtW77ow8z.97

Remember that it is Phuket, and Phuket Immigration is known to be among strictest offices when applying rules; so rules in Pattaya may be easier than what this article says... 

The 2008 seems like an error of translation/calculus as the police order clearly says 1998, same as the previous one.

 

25 minutes ago, Billyboy294 said:

Which is it?  B800,000  for 3months after Visa has been issued or a minimum of B400,000 throughout the year?

Rules on this point are very clear since the first day they published them. The minimum balance history is still this one :

800 800  (X)  800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 400 800 800  (X+1)  800 800 800...

 

13 minutes ago, Billyboy294 said:

So he is wrong or (misleading) in saying you must keep a minimum of B400,000  throughout the year when for three months after getting the Visa you must keep a minimum of B800,000.

Looks like a contradiction to me. I don't see the point in his initial statement.

Not really wrong as he speak for different cases. 

400k is now the minimum in bank for the combo method (income + money-in-bank)

400k is also the minimum for money-in-bank only, but with 5 months at 800k...

Edited February 16, 2019 by Oukiva

[everard]

10 hours ago, Captain Dave said:

I agree the letter from the Embassy is a problem for some who have no proof of income in Thailand.

But this is not a change made by the Thais, just a decision by the British Embassy.

As I posted, the only change the Thais have made - so far as I can see - is to crack down on the tactic used by some agents, of depositing money in clients accounts for a few days to evade their rules.

Just like the Education Visa abuses such a crack down on their rules was bound to occur at some point.

 

The Thais are well aware of the change to Embassy procedure regarding income letter and have said that if you can show regular income

into a Thai account of sufficient amount, this will suffice as proof of such income. 

They have not altered the totals required, so those who needed a letter confirming income from the Embassy will just have to

have the income paid into a Thai account - not really a problem for most I would have thought.

I get my pension paid into a Thai Sterling account, this took less than a day to set up.

 

I still feel that the main concern for UK retirees on limited income is the exchange rate and their income becoming less

than the minimum under the rules.

Again, this is not a change made by Thai Immigration, just the bloody Pound being effected by you-know-what.

 

I have every sympathy for expats on limited incomes finding things tough but I have yet to meet one who is being forced 

to return due to the new rules, and I meet lots of expats every day in my work.

No doubt there will be some, but 'large proportion' is overstating the case.

At the risk of wearing it out try getting out a bit more and talking to people trying to return to the los seem to be making up the rules as they go along,

[Captain Dave]

7 hours ago, everard said:

At the risk of wearing it out try getting out a bit more and talking to people trying to return to the los seem to be making up the rules as they go along,

As I've said several times, and no one has contradicted this, the only real change to the rules is the time you have to keep

money of a certain amount in an account (or combination of cash/income) for a period of time, not just on the day of application.

 

I appreciate this is a problem for those that relied on agents evading the spirit of the rules by sticking money in their account for a few days.

 

I am out and about in Pattaya talking to expats every day, and have been for ten years. 

[Garzan]

12 minutes ago, Captain Dave said:

As I've said several times, and no one has contradicted this, the only real change to the rules is the time you have to keep

money of a certain amount in an account (or combination of cash/income) for a period of time, not just on the day of application.

 

I appreciate this is a problem for those that relied on agents evading the spirit of the rules by sticking money in their account for a few days.

 

I am out and about in Pattaya talking to expats every day, and have been for ten years. 

 

I pretty much agree with you. The expats that have been counting on loopholes and dodgey practices are understandably upset. The ones who haven't aren't so much. :-) 

[usexpat46]

36 minutes ago, Captain Dave said:

 

I appreciate this is a problem for those that relied on agents evading the spirit of the rules by sticking money in their account for a few days.

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with your other comments, but it had to be more than agents as the rules before were that the funds had to be in the account for either 2 or 3 months.

[Billyboy294]

I went with a friend who had been using the same Visa Agent for 3 years. The first RV is 22,000 Baht but thereafter (as with my friend) a renewal was 12,000 Baht.

On behalf of another friend I asked if a first time RV would be any cheaper as my friend has had over 800,000 in a Thai bank for over a year. I was told , "No" as they have 800,000 baht ready to go into an account.

Not sure of the logic of this ; why put 800,000 baht into an account which already has over 8000, 000 baht in it but perhaps it may be because they use their own Bank.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Billyboy294

[Scuba+]

As I've said several times, and no one has contradicted this, the only real change to the rules is the time you have to keep

money of a certain amount in an account (or combination of cash/income) for a period of time, not just on the day of application.

 

 

A big change to the rules is no embassy letter for some countries so people now have to transfer 65k per month for income method. Bare in mind people didnt always transfer everything over plus could easily live on less. Transferwise is hit or miss for Intl transfers so now more expensive transfer methods need to be used. Its all added costs at the time when the exchange rate is pants

 

[david555]

Another nail in the Thai coffin ….? 8000K need  frozen on account to hold whole year round...in consideration by Immigration...

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1081616-thai-immigration-considers-forcing-some-retirees-to-show-800k-in-bank-every-three-months-report/

[forcebwithu]

3 hours ago, Captain Dave said:

As I've said several times, and no one has contradicted this, the only real change to the rules is the time you have to keep

money of a certain amount in an account (or combination of cash/income) for a period of time, not just on the day of application.

I appreciate this is a problem for those that relied on agents evading the spirit of the rules by sticking money in their account for a few days.

I am out and about in Pattaya talking to expats every day, and have been for ten years. 

They also changed how much of what you put on deposit you can use. Previously you could use the 800k to live on after it had seasoned three months, now 400k of the 800k can never be used.

[Soi7]

I think the biggest issue is going to be how are they going to check periodically to see how much money you have? My guess is it will be every 90 days but separate to the 90-day check in they will be totally different things you have to do. Anybody else have any ideas?

[Oukiva]

9 minutes ago, david555 said:

Another nail in the Thai coffin ….? 8000K need  frozen on account to hold whole year round...in consideration by Immigration...

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1081616-thai-immigration-considers-forcing-some-retirees-to-show-800k-in-bank-every-three-months-report/

It's an already old post using radio Fabulous 103 FM as source, and they have prove this year to be way too alarmist...