Retirement Visa problem - New Rules

[Oukiva]

1 hour ago, Billyboy294 said:

(4) At least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have fund deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800,000. The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,00 or;

(5) Must have and annual earning and fund deposited with a commercial bank in Thailand totalling of no less than THB 800,000 until the filing date. The said fund must remain in the account prior to and after the permission is granted and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in (4).

The new requirements to keep 400k baht in the bank for three months after the retirement visa is granted is effective from 1st March  2019."

Hi Billyboy 

It's your whole post who is confusing .  The 3 first lines/paragraphs above are part of this ThaiVisa post,  except that on ThaiVisa the 3rd lines doesn't say 400k  but 800k, conform to the amendment. There is then no contradictions.

 

1 hour ago, Billyboy294 said:

As I understand it according to Para (4) at present you must keep the 800,000 baht  in the account  for at least 3 months after RV is granting. I had never heard of this before so is this not a "new requirement".

But after 1st March 2019 you can reduce the 800K to 400K under a "new requirement",

Of course it's a new requirement! 

And that's why I posted these new rules on page 2 of this topic and explained it on page 3 :

On 01/02/2019 at 12:28, Oukiva said:

// so the new balance history requirement for  eXtensions should be :

800 800  (X)  800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 400 800 800  (X+1)  etc.

 

1 hour ago, Billyboy294 said:

Where is this "new requirement"  which apparently contradicts Para (4). It looks like i will have to keep 800K in the account for 3 months after i get the RV

A bit confusing ; I am due to renew my RV on 18th Feb 2019

These rules will start on March 1st, so you are not concerned for this year. For you old rules with 3-months of 800k.

Next extension (next year) you will just need 2-months but will have to follow the balance history above.

 

No contradiction, and I repost here the rules :

[brutox]

This might get interesting .. two polls (one on ThaiVisa; one on Facebook; both informal) indicate a meaningful impact to the resident farang community.

I can imagine government officials not giving a rat's ass about how farang feel, but I wonder how they'd feel if the story migrates into broader international media coverage and spun to effect tourist sentiments? .. tourism is now credited to contribute nearly 20% of the Thai GDP.

This might get interesting.

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/a-third-of-expats-may-have-to-leave-survey-on-new-retirement-visa-extension

[kane666]

From TV:

I went to Chiang Mai Immigration again today 04-02-2019 at 3 o'clock, and spoke to one of the officers there.

You will not get a a Non immigrant "o" visa or a retirement extention using the income method -  having only documents/ statements from a bank, he said.

You will need a letter from the embassy (if you can get one) or some kind of other proof.

The officer asked if i was American and having a pension. Apparently a pension letter from the home country is accepted.

Hopeless fuckers really.

[jed§]

8 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

short sighted though, the farang at all levels support an ecosystem of Thais

True, although I suspect that this is less the case than previously. Also, these sorts of decisions about visa rules are not made by the sort of Thais who receive money from us.

[Oukiva]

1 hour ago, brutox said:

This might get interesting .. two polls (one on ThaiVisa; one on Facebook; both informal) indicate a meaningful impact to the resident farang community.

Only 40 people voted "I will almost certainly have to leave" on more than 400'000 farang expats,

and ThaiVisa titles the thread "Nearly a third of expats may have to leave" …    Seriously...

 

1 hour ago, brutox said:

I can imagine government officials not giving a rat's ass about how farang feel, but I wonder how they'd feel if the story migrates into broader international media coverage and spun to effect tourist sentiments? .. tourism is now credited to contribute nearly 20% of the Thai GDP.

IMHO tourists do not care at all on changes that may occur on expats rules.

Also foreign retirees are now negligible quantity in Thai statistics:

Farang retirees in Thailand may be about 100'000 while tourists number this year may reach 40'000'000 ! 

[brutox]

12 hours ago, brutox said:

This might get interesting .. two polls (one on ThaiVisa; one on Facebook; both informal) indicate a meaningful impact to the resident farang community.

I can imagine government officials not giving a rat's ass about how farang feel, but I wonder how they'd feel if the story migrates into broader international media coverage and spun to effect tourist sentiments? .. tourism is now credited to contribute nearly 20% of the Thai GDP.

This might get interesting.

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/a-third-of-expats-may-have-to-leave-survey-on-new-retirement-visa-extension

 

11 hours ago, Oukiva said:

Only 40 people voted "I will almost certainly have to leave" on more than 400'000 farang expats,

and ThaiVisa titles the thread "Nearly a third of expats may have to leave" …    Seriously...

 

IMHO tourists do not care at all on changes that may occur on expats rules.

Also foreign retirees are now negligible quantity in Thai statistics:

Farang retirees in Thailand may be about 100'000 while tourists number this year may reach 40'000'000 ! 

Let's not parse out too deeply on this .. the article (and I) clearly cite that this was an informal survey .. not definitve, but certainly indicative of interest in the issue.

The 400,000 farang expats you imply are the field are not respondents to the survey .. the survey population was only 461 respondents, so representing the 40 people you cite in abolute terms could be interpreted as a wee bit misleading .. they represent merely a relative figure (to 461 respondents, not 400,000).

Both of these informal polls are data points only, and not by themselves definitive.

We agree that the Immigration Ministry has no interest in farang opinions .. but .. the Ministry of Tourism and Sport might be .. media routinely shapes perception, often more so than facts .. spun by modern media, this information does make an impact.

e.g. Chinese tourist drown on Phuket tour boat late last year .. tour boat Made in Thailand .. but .. leased by a Chinese company .. operated by a Chinese company .. group tour operator was a Chinese company .. then: media spin, media spin, media spin .. notwithstanding those facts, Chinese visitation to Thailand plummeted, shocking the Ministry of Tourism and Sport to launch a crisis management media campaign .. perception .. perception.

I suggest that is a possible threat .. the Thai government has never, ever shown any aptitude for managing negative international public perception .. totally tone deaf .. who knows how this develops.

For whatever reasons (negative public image this might generate, or others), we all hope the government can make thoughtful policy adjustments that do not crap all over guys who are here legitimately .. jeez, who knows .. maybe half of farang retirees here do not deserve to be here .. are these policies the best way to sweep them out?

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by brutox

[kansuwan]

Tabloid stories coming: 

Beyond middle-aged farang and wife, with children, living a happy self-supporting life in LOS for many years until the new heartless regulations bite.  Farang forced to relocate to home country.  No assets, has to sleep rough.  Children lose father,  tissues all round.  Add in a suicide or two.

[brutox]

Hah! .. kansuwan! .. you are a cynic after my own heart!

As you, I try to anticipate the unlikely surprises that spice our lives here.

We can make light of the plight of unfortunate farang in Thailand, but a great deal of international attention will soon be drawn to Thailand with the upcoming election .. personal interest stories (mostly Thais) are likely to find coverage .. however, this could be one.

 

[Billyboy294]

22 hours ago, Oukiva said:

Hi Billyboy 

It's your whole post who is confusing .  The 3 first lines/paragraphs above are part of this ThaiVisa post,  except that on ThaiVisa the 3rd lines doesn't say 400k  but 800k, conform to the amendment. There is then no contradictions.

 

Of course it's a new requirement! 

And that's why I posted these new rules on page 2 of this topic and explained it on page 3 :

 

These rules will start on March 1st, so you are not concerned for this year. For you old rules with 3-months of 800k.

Next extension (next year) you will just need 2-months but will have to follow the balance history above.

 

No contradiction, and I repost here the rules :

My confusion arose when you said:=                   ;-

"this new rule will be effective for March 1st onwards,

so this should not concern you for this year BillyBoy. "

The Criteria for Consideration is dated   January 2019. Where does it say the new rule will be effective for March 1st onwards. Although i haven't read every post in detail.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Billyboy294

[Oukiva]

2 hours ago, Billyboy294 said:

The Criteria for Consideration is dated   January 2019.

Where does it say the new rule will be effective for March 1st onwards. Although i haven't read every post in detail.

It's on this second page, that has not yet been posted here.

[Pumpuynarak]

21 hours ago, Oukiva said:

Only 40 people voted "I will almost certainly have to leave" on more than 400'000 farang expats,

and ThaiVisa titles the thread "Nearly a third of expats may have to leave" …    Seriously...

 

IMHO tourists do not care at all on changes that may occur on expats rules.

Also foreign retirees are now negligible quantity in Thai statistics:

Farang retirees in Thailand may be about 100'000 while tourists number this year may reach 40'000'000 ! 

KHON KAEN:-- A study recently carried out by Khon Kaen University has found that foreign men who are married to women from Isaan have boosted gross domestic product in the region by almost 9 billion baht.

The findings of the study, which looked at the impact foreign husbands have on the economy in the north east of Thailand were unveiled by Asst Prof Kalapapruek Piwthongngam, from the Faculty of Management Science at the E-saan Centre for Business and Economic Research, reports Daily News Online.

According to the study, after a woman from north east Thailand gets married to or engages in a long term relationship with a foreigner, on average she will normally send approximately 9,600 Baht per month back to her family in the region. This money is normally used to help the family with living expenses, purchasing food, paying for utility bills and education.

The study also found that on average, the wife and foreign husband will normally return to the wifes family home in the region at least once a year, sometimes staying for as long as one month, which results in a dramatic increase in financial spending in the local area.

This increase in spending is mostly seen in the automotive, retail and wholesale sectors, as well as in the local property market. The purchase of household goods, personal items and gold also normally increase during this time.

The E-saan Centre for Business and Economic Research also estimated that this spending helped to create nearly 747,000 jobs in the region.

The centre found that increasingly more women aged between 20 and 40 years old from the north east are marrying foreign men, with a definite trend developing, according to Asst Prof Kalapapruek.

The study found that most foreign men marrying women from north east Thailand came from the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Germany, Sweden and Switzerland.

-- 2014-10-22

 

[Oukiva]

3 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

On 04/02/2019 at 23:52, Oukiva said:

Also foreign retirees are now negligible quantity in Thai statistics

// A study recently // has found that foreign men who are married to women from Isaan have boosted gross domestic product in the region by almost 9 billion baht.

Yes, it just confirms what I said 

- foreign married to women in Isaan : GDP +9 billion baht

- GDP Thailand : about 15 trillion baht, 15'000 billion baht...

[Tarl]

5 hours ago, Oukiva said:

Yes, it just confirms what I said 

- foreign married to women in Isaan : GDP +9 billion baht

- GDP Thailand : about 15 trillion baht, 15'000 billion baht...

So say there are 76 regions in Thailand at 9 billion a region ! Wow!

[Oukiva]

3 hours ago, Tarl said:

So say there are 76 regions in Thailand at 9 billion a region ! Wow!

76 regions, no, but 76 provinces, yes, 

but the way I read the article the 9 billions are for Isaan, and Isaan region consists of 20 of these 76 provinces.

So if all regions were similar, foreign married men could bring 9x76/20 ~= 34 billions, or 0.2% of Thailand GBP

Next question: Which part of these come from those who are retired ?...

 

PS: Isaan :

 

Edit: Nothing personal against you, Tarl & Pumpuynarak; just trying to show realist numbers... 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Oukiva

[Pumpuynarak]

8 hours ago, Oukiva said:

Yes, it just confirms what I said 

- foreign married to women in Isaan : GDP +9 billion baht

- GDP Thailand : about 15 trillion baht, 15'000 billion baht...

I don't think 9 billion is negligible but thats just me and my opinion lol. I wonder what all the Thai recipients of that 9 billion think ?  

[Tarl]

24 minutes ago, Oukiva said:

76 regions, no, but 76 provinces, yes, 

but the way I read the article the 9 billions are for Isaan, and Isaan region consists of 20 of these 76 provinces.

So if all regions were similar, foreign married men could bring 9x76/20 ~= 34 billions, or 0.2% of Thailand GBP

Next question: Which part of these come from those who are retired ?...

 

PS: Isaan :

 

Edit: Nothing personal against you, Tarl & Pumpuynarak; just trying to show realist numbers... 

Can you direct me to the full article.  You say KK Uni did it for all of Isan which suprises me they had the resources to do that. Even so we are talking minumim around 4 times that for Thailand. Even if it was around 36 billion I would think that is substantial.

Of particular interest to me would be the assets an expat in the regions brings to families in the long term.

Personally I think you undervalue what expats bring to the table.

[Oukiva]

15 minutes ago, Tarl said:

Can you direct me to the full article. 

Pumpuynarak posted the ThaiVisa's version 6 posts above this one.

The original article is there dailynews.co.th/regional/275500 (in Thai, but Google Translate can help )

The article comes from the Northeastern Business and Economic Research Center, Faculty of Management Science, Khon Kaen University (KKU)

No doubt for me that these are data about the whole Isaan.

15 minutes ago, Tarl said:

Even if it was around 36 billion I would think that is substantial.

Of course 9 or 34 billion is "substantial", mainly for those directly concerned/impacted, 

but as always with global statistics, too small doesn't appear...

(Think about the value 34 on a graph scaled 0 to 15'000... )

Edited February 6, 2019 by Oukiva

[Tarl]

22 minutes ago, Oukiva said:

Pumpuynarak posted the ThaiVisa's version 6 posts above this one.

The original article is there dailynews.co.th/regional/275500 (in Thai, but Google Translate can help )

The article comes from the Northeastern Business and Economic Research Center, Faculty of Management Science, Khon Kaen University (KKU)

No doubt for me that these are data about the whole Isaan.

Of course 9 or 34 billion is "substantial", mainly for those directly concerned/impacted, 

but as always with global statistics, too small doesn't appear...

(Think about the value 34 on a graph scaled 0 to 15'000... )

Must admit I am bemused by you comparing this to 15 trillion. 90% of sectors would look inconsequential if you compared them this way.

[Pumpuynarak]

12 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

According to the study, after a woman from north east Thailand gets married to or engages in a long term relationship with a foreigner, on average she will normally send approximately 9,600 Baht per month back to her family in the region. This money is normally used to help the family with living expenses, purchasing food, paying for utility bills and education.

The study also found that on average, the wife and foreign husband will normally return to the wifes family home in the region at least once a year, sometimes staying for as long as one month, which results in a dramatic increase in financial spending in the local area.

Whats interesting is that this study is referring to Marriages/LTR where the Thai partner moves to the farangs home country, what about the ???? that LIVE in Isaan/Thailand with their Thai wifeys/LTR ?

[Tarl]

Getting sidetracked though so back to the topic. Be interested how an IO intrepets the 2 months before and 3 months after. Will it be 60 days and 90 days (doubtful as they would have put this if that was their intent) or 2 calendar months and 3 calendar months? 

May mean the month you are granted the visa or extension is not included in the 5 month period meaning the 800k will need to be in the bank for 6 months not 5.

Personally I will transfer 800k 3 months before just to be on the safe side.

[Lambik]

On 04/02/2019 at 09:16, usexpat46 said:

Why not get legally married? 

19 years together with same Thai lady, we moved in together out of love.

We married later for the money : 25% more pension.

[Pumpuynarak]

19 minutes ago, Lambik said:

19 years together with same Thai lady, we moved in together out of love.

We married later for the money : 25% more pension.

Love it lol and if i had'nt married wifey a widows pension would be wasted.....

[Scuba+]

Personally I think you undervalue what expats bring to the table.

I agree, i don't think Thai people undervalue it but Immigration and govt definitely do but they also don't seem to care much about poorer Thais

[david555]

1 hour ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Love it lol and if i had'nt married wifey a widows pension would be wasted.....

In Belgium they changed the payment for the widow if she is not 45 yet , in that case only 1 or 2 years payment , over 45 years she is entitled to a full widow pension for life at a single  rate pension (some exceptions if there are children …)….. the gov. does not grant us a " green leaf " anymore ...just only " oldies" ….just they are jealous I guess 

Edited February 6, 2019 by david555

[Lambik]

44 minutes ago, david555 said:

just only " oldies"

23 years difference between me and my wife, I am 70+ now.

She is still a " green leaf " for me,

but old enough for a full widow pension.