Hot Resale At The Golden Tulip - Foreign Quota

[jasper651967]

1 hour ago, paulyd2k said:

in my opinion, yes, i only invested because i thought it was going to be high level development, i have owned a few properties here, and did my research, and kobi had worked with the thais for many years and done a few projects under the golden tulip name and more were planned,  and this project looked very good, high end swanky hotel at front and high end amenities, now 5/6 years late, maybe more, no hotel, and probably not going to get one, prob no roof gardens, and other bits and pieces i think, same as across the road, as it looks like this project is cash strapped due to low level of workers for a long time now,  i am very thankfull that it never went under and we lost everything, and that i have that money sat there at 55bht to the pound when it`s 42/41 now . so when i send it home i will maker a nice little earner, but i just dont want it now and i hope i can sell as the project nears the end, just bored of all the thai bs, just want to keep the condo i am in now as it owes me little , and live an easy life,555555555, i dont wanna be stuck with a few properties when i`m older,

So what condo have you got , Thai or foreign ? and how much per sq m do you want for it ?

[The Danimal]

5 hours ago, Evilfriar said:

What would you like to have fully foreign owned?

You can already fully own a condo that is in the foreign quota.

Cheers

I bought in Thai quota as I was led to believe it was easy to get Thai corp and could own by myself....turns out it's not so easy unless I go the 49%/51% route...which I won't....so I'm looking for alternatives

[The Danimal]

4 hours ago, paulyd2k said:

but it seems to be moving along well now,  but I cant wait to get rid of mine, it`s still going to be a very long time for completion, if it ever gets finished. I have lost all interest in the project, just hope I can get back what I paid at least

I got a solid deal and didn't buy until late 2017 ...So I am not as anxious as others.  I do feel it will get done...and pretty close to when initially promised when I purchased (~end of Q1 2019)

[The Danimal]

2 hours ago, chris2004 said:

Only buy from the foreign quota. Anyone who buys a thai company condo is crazy.

Why do you say that?

[The Danimal]

42 minutes ago, jasper651967 said:

So what condo have you got , Thai or foreign ? and how much per sq m do you want for it ?

I have top floor corner unit with pool view and clear sight lines down two aisles of the pool....also have the morning sun and afternoon shade...with "outtie" balcony...2bd/2ba..~67sm....arguably/IMO one of the best two units in the project....foreign...I'd take 80/SM

[brutox]

2 hours ago, The Danimal said:

Why do you say that?

Hey, Danimal .. you might not be new to Thailand, but new to the forum .. by your question, you appear new to Thailand.

A lot has been written about nominee companies on this, and other forums .. search out "nominee company/companies", or "illegal nominee" .. or "Condominium Act" .. several threads go into some depth on this.

The summary is:

• The Thai Condominium Act allows foreigners to own freehold title to up to 49% in condominum buildings only (the 49% is measured by gross building area); and,
• Nominee companies for the purpose of foreign property ownership, no matter how fanicifiully structured and contrived by developers, attorneys and agents (local, and foreign) .. are .. illegal .. full stop .. end of sentence .. end of paragraph .. end of statement.

Do your home work.  I did .. as a matter of fact, a lot of it .. on behalf of the international private equity property investor for whom I worked, I had a near-limitless legal due diligence budget, spending USD 10's and 10's and 10's of thousands on asset ownership structures, including direct property ownership .. my principal counsel was a US-based international-Thai law firm .. I secured second opinions by another US-based international-Thai law firm .. both rock solid .. both opinions .. identical.

This is a part of the steep and potentially costly learning curve for newbies in Thailand .. allow no one fool you into a sense of comfort, with their confident smiles and air of authority .. and there are many here (local, and foreign) .. anyone who represents to you anything other than the above is not to be trusted .. stay away from them.

Welcome to Thailand, Danimal .. you are now in the deep water, where touching bottom is not possible if you get into trouble .. you can enjoy it here, but remember to defend yourself at all times .. the cost of failure on major issues here is quite a bit more expensive than in most of our home countries .. in many instances, it is 'all of it' .. good luck.

Edited October 4, 2018 by brutox

[Swinga]

Brutox question if I may?

How does a foreign developer own or even worse mortgage a development and then sell it if he can't own land?

If he doesn't own the land. How is that shelf company developed allowed to 1. Sell a condo development. 2. Mortgage it to a bank?

What magic is involved in this?

Has the Thai landowner signed a lease to the developer?

The condo owners are now just sitting on long subleases?

Has the bank accepted that lease and will therefore accept the shelf company developer?

Perplexed at the smoke and mirrors on this one?

[The Danimal]

19 minutes ago, brutox said:

Hey, Danimal .. you might not be new to Thailand, but new to the forum .. by your question, you appear new to Thailand.

A lot has been written about nominee companies on this, and other forums .. search out "nominee company/companies", or "illegal nominee" .. or "Condominium Act" .. several threads go into some depth on this.

The summary is:

• The Thai Condominium Act allows foreigners to own freehold title to up to 49% in condominum buildings only (the 49% is measured by gross building area); and,
• Nominee companies for the purpose of foreign property ownership, no matter how fanicifiully structured and contrived by developers, attorneys and agents (local, and foreign) .. are .. illegal .. full stop .. end of sentence .. end of paragraph .. end of statement.

Do your home work.  I did .. as a matter of fact, a lot of it .. on behalf of the international private equity property investor for whom I worked, I had a near-limitless legal due diligence budget, spending USD 10's and 10's and 10's of thousands on asset ownership structures, including direct property ownership .. my principal counsel was a US-based international-Thai law firm .. I secured second opinions by another US-based international-Thai law firm .. both rock solid .. both opinions .. identical.

This is a part of the steep and potentially costly learning curve for newbies in Thailand .. allow no one fool you into a sense of comfort, with their confident smiles and air of authority .. and there are many here (local, and foreign) .. anyone who represents to you anything other than the above is not to be trusted .. stay away from them.

Welcome to Thailand, Danimal .. you are now in the deep water, where touching bottom is not possible if you get into trouble .. you can enjoy it here, but remember to defend yourself at all times .. the cost of failure on major issues here is quite a bit more expensive than in most of our home countries .. in many instances, it is 'all of it' .. good luck.

So basically I am stuck to a 49/51 set up unless I can somehow switch to foreign owned (which is considerably more expensive and doubtful at this point)

Edited October 4, 2018 by The Danimal
additional question

[The Danimal]

and BTW yes...60 trips to Thailand...about the same to Pattaya.....and 3 lawyers and 4 RE agents basically led me to believe there were other ways to set up Thai Corp without the 49/51...and my own (limited) research basically came back with lots of variances....ugh...thanks

Edited October 4, 2018 by The Danimal

[wido]

8 hours ago, The Danimal said:

Looking good.....now if any of you know how to create Thai corporation ownership without having a 49% foreign/51% Thai corporation set up....I'd like to have it fully foreign owned???

best contact a specialist lawyer.

[paulyd2k]

4 hours ago, jasper651967 said:

So what condo have you got , Thai or foreign ? and how much per sq m do you want for it ?

hi, my condo is in foreign name , not sure on sq mt price but paid 2.66mb, but not paid the final instalment, unit is c502

[paulyd2k]

there`s tons of stuff to learn here regarding buying properties, and many downfalls,  I believe there are many strange things regarding if you die, your family cannot inherit you house/condo, it has to be sold within a year I believe or it goes back to the vendors, and if your family want it they have to buy it again at market value,  so this is why I am offloading all my properties bar one, and sell it later on, I am not to up on all this but been told many things over the years, also I wouldn't have a thai company, it`s not even legal, they make fake accounts each year and you have to pay,55555, also I heard that in chang mai now, if you are renting properties you have to get a work permit as it`s classed as running a business, will it follow on to here, who knows, but I`m getting out of the market now, just keep my cheapie condo for now, doesn't owe me anything because never paid a penny rent so , sweeeeet, but good luck all others,

[paulyd2k]

5 hours ago, The Danimal said:

I got a solid deal and didn't buy until late 2017 ...So I am not as anxious as others.  I do feel it will get done...and pretty close to when initially promised when I purchased (~end of Q1 2019)

you might be in q1, but I`m sure it will still be a bombsite then , you cant polish a turd,lol

[wido]

2 hours ago, paulyd2k said:

hi, my condo is in foreign name , not sure on sq mt price but paid 2.66mb, but not paid the final instalment, unit is c502

That's the back side. You don't have pool view. 

[paulyd2k]

OMG, that`s terrible, oh by the way I never said I did

Edited October 4, 2018 by paulyd2k

[Oukiva]

40 minutes ago, wido said:

That's the back side. You don't have pool view. 

Hum... I would rather see that as a positive point. 

I lived a short period in an apartment above a communal pool; Never again !

It's just incredible how children can be noisy in/near a pool 

[brutox]

7 hours ago, Swinga said:

Brutox question if I may?

How does a foreign developer own or even worse mortgage a development and then sell it if he can't own land?

If he doesn't own the land. How is that shelf company developed allowed to 1. Sell a condo development. 2. Mortgage it to a bank?

What magic is involved in this?

Has the Thai landowner signed a lease to the developer?

The condo owners are now just sitting on long subleases?

Has the bank accepted that lease and will therefore accept the shelf company developer?

Perplexed at the smoke and mirrors on this one?

Hey, Swinga .. you wrap-up a few good questions in your post:

1. A developer, foreign or Thai, can legally lease land upon which to develop and sell condominiums.  All units will be leasehold, and subordinate to the land lease upon which the condominium is constructed.  A bank will lend money on a leasehold property, although under less favorable terms than for a freehold property.
2.  In almost 20 years here, in the property investment sector for much of that, I am aware of no foreign developers who qualify for commercial loans.  None.  This has nothing to do with the land tenure, but the lack of developer creditworthiness.  These developments are largely built on the buyers pre-sale deposits (which are totally unsecured and available for the developer to do anything they want with the money .. and I mean anything) -- the developers put very little of their own money into them.  Consequently, Thailand is a candy store for unscrupulous foreigners who take great risks with buyers money to develop .. the Thai market is littered with such failed developments.  Their development process is simply uninvestible and conventionl banks will not touch them.  Some foreign developers do secure loans from local finance companies or private placements, which are high risk loans with corresponding terms.
3. Foreign developers owning freehold land upon which they develop condominiums are highly likely illegal nominee companies, to which the foreign developer has legal exposure until the project is complete.

So much has been written about the undisclosed risks to innocent and misled buyers of off-plan condominiums in Thailand.

To me, the only way to avoid the risks of buying off-plan is to buy from a publicly-traded Thai property developer, whose corporate governance is under the supervision of the Security and Exchange Commission, and which is financially sound enough and experienced enough to qualify for conventional bank financing, with loan terms representing another layer of assurance.

 

[Evilfriar]

11 hours ago, The Danimal said:

I bought in Thai quota as I was led to believe it was easy to get Thai corp and could own by myself....turns out it's not so easy unless I go the 49%/51% route...which I won't....so I'm looking for alternatives

Ah ok.

I'm far from an expert, but am almost certain there are no alternatives. If there were they would in any case be more illegal than the current company route (which is already illegal but generally has been turned a blind eye to).

At the end of the day, buying versus renting is of course dependant on personal situation and feelings. For me, no way in hell would I be buying any property in Thailand. Even if I was, no way in the world off plan or in company name.

Hope things work out to your satisfaction, good luck with it.

Cheers

[paulyd2k]

to get to the nitty gritty of it,  they want us to own sweet F.A.

[chris2004]

21 hours ago, The Danimal said:

Why do you say that?

A) It's illegal

B) You will never own the condo

C) You will find it very hard, and expensive, if you ever want to sell.

D) You have to pay company fees every year.

E) There are thousands of foreign quota condos to choose from.

[jasper651967]

23 hours ago, chris2004 said:

A) It's illegal

B) You will never own the condo

C) You will find it very hard, and expensive, if you ever want to sell.

D) You have to pay company fees every year.

E) There are thousands of foreign quota condos to choose from.

Think c is a bit wrong...i had a house in company name and only had to change the directors..cost bugger all...no tax to pay either.

[chris2004]

34 minutes ago, jasper651967 said:

Think c is a bit wrong...i had a house in company name and only had to change the directors..cost bugger all...no tax to pay either.

I think a house is different because you can only buy one via a company. Not many people want a company condo. A friend of mine had to wind up his company which was expensive.

[paulyd2k]

It is easy and cheap to transfer it over to falang, but not easy to sell to a thai, as most thais go to the bank for money, and the bank wont pay a company unless all is in order and the company has a linked bank account, I had this problem with mine, so I held on until a falang bought it, could have sold it 10 times over to thai`s if all was ok

[paulyd2k]

also I would not be buying any property at the exchange rates as they are, well uk rate anyway,

[gusincebu]

It is easy and cheap to transfer it over to falang, but not easy to sell to a thai, as most thais go to the bank for money, and the bank wont pay a company unless all is in order and the company has a linked bank account, I had this problem with mine, so I held on until a falang bought it, could have sold it 10 times over to thai`s if all was ok

This confuses me a bit ..

If the condo is owned in a company name, isnt it from the original Thai quota, and can be bought by a Thai, in name, without company ?

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