Art on the Hill condo debacle in Pattaya

[Rambo12]

Wow man I've read every post on here because I was thinking about buying a condo and can't believe the hell you've all been through. I most definitely will not buy a condo that isn't built already after reading all of this!

[jerry]

Wow man I've read every post on here because I was thinking about buying a condo and can't believe the hell you've all been through. I most definitely will not buy a condo that isn't built already after reading all of this!

 

Rent is the way to go ATM ... i see beautiful condos being rented out for prices that are far under market value . 

Thousands of condos empty and the owners are happy to take low offers even if it's only just covering costs . 

[supergeil]

Wow man I've read every post on here because I was thinking about buying a condo and can't believe the hell you've all been through. I most definitely will not buy a condo that isn't built already after reading all of this!

Keep in mind that this is all about Matrix, a builder of small budget condos (no offence to the buyers).

 

I bought off-plan myself, partly to secure what I consider the best unit in the building, and partly because it allowed me to make changes to the project (of which I had many).

 

For me it turned out pretty good, as I have a condo tailored to my needs and there is no way I would have been able to find something ready-made like this, neither for sale or rent.

 

But if your needs are limited, if you’re buying into a building with lots of identical units, etc. then there is probably no reason to run the risk of buying off-plan, as the only advantage is the pre-sale discount, but even that might be questionable.

[Rambo12]

Rent is the way to go ATM ... i see beautiful condos being rented out for prices that are far under market value . 

Thousands of condos empty and the owners are happy to take low offers even if it's only just covering costs .

 

I've been talking to some friends over there and researching online and I have to agree renting would most likely be better for me.

 

Keep in mind that this is all about Matrix, a builder of small budget condos (no offence to the buyers).I bought off-plan myself, partly to secure what I consider the best unit in the building, and partly because it allowed me to make changes to the project (of which I had many).For me it turned out pretty good, as I have a condo tailored to my needs and there is no way I would have been able to find something ready-made like this, neither for sale or rent.But if your needs are limited, if you’re buying into a building with lots of identical units, etc. then there is probably no reason to run the risk of buying off-plan, as the only advantage is the pre-sale discount, but even that might be questionable.

.

 

It seems like I've heard a few other horror stories where the build just stops and sits there for awhile. I see your point if you're looking to design and custom your condo that would be the way to go if not probably best to just wait.

[sagitarius123]

This is an extract from Andrew Drummond's article, of todays date.

 

 

 

One section of the community requiring considerable scrutiny is of course the group of foreign property developers in the resort.

Currently foreigners investing their life savings in holiday homes are now more at risk than ever as unscrupulous property developers take cash for projects which will never be built.




Developers have set up lavish showrooms and advertised glossy condo in the sun projects heavily on the internet and but time after time the projects are being cancelled or simply not going ahead after the money rolls in from buyers.

They of course always have something or somebody else to blame.
Currently it is the military government and the trickle of foreigners, likely to become a stream, leaving the country – to perhaps be replaced by Chinese.

Currently buyers, from Europe (including Britain), Russia, China, India, Australia, are all demanding their cash back on unbuilt projects.

They report that if they put out warnings on the net, they face libel law suits under Thailand's Computer Crime Act.

Some have discovered in their paperwork two contracts which upon closer examination show how they have been criminally defrauded.

An original master contract which gives a guaranteed completion date or money back clause is switched at the last minute with one which has no completion date at all.

Then there can also be a clause to go to arbitration, not civil or criminal court, if the client considers the developer is in breach of the contract. (Arbitration is super expensive and the costs can be as much as the condo being bought).



But if they have to take legal action it's at this stage that they realise that legal action is going to cost them more than their condo and will take years in a judicial system which is both notoriously pliable and dysfunctional.

And even if a Thai court was to order they be repaid – the buyer would have to enforce the order too.

For decades both police and city officials have turned a blind eye to the scamming property developers who frequently hob nob with city officials and senior officers and vie with each other at annual Property Award ceremonies in Bangkok.

Police will not investigate property scams. But worse they have even been used to intimidate victims of property fraud.


Emerald Palace
The city's Consumer Protection Office, serves only to protect some Thai victims. Readers of this site may recall an interview with one of them over the 'Emerald Palace' scam.

The officer suggested the city could deal with transgressors by simply eliminating them and taking them out into the Gulf of Thailand in a fast boat!


Haughton
Of course nothing happened in that case where Briton Richard Haughton running Harlequin (Thailand) then TPME sold scores of units in his condo – then sold them again to the Kasikorn Bank for a 79 million baht loan!

To ensure none of the scams get out the developers have essentially bought off all the local English language media.

Thus if victims of property rip-offs try to complain to a local English language newspaper – they will be quickly shown the door.

The local rags depend on the advertising from the so called developers for their very existence even though they know the scams.

In fact a very well-known local media personality even recently approached this site asking on the basis of friendship whether I could 'lose' a story on the new Scandinavian player in the property business in Pattaya. The reason, he had a potentially lucrative media contract with them.


There is a certain irony in the fact that while Thailand's military premier General Chanyuth Chan-Ocha is severely clamping down on foreign correspondents, journalists writing for the mafia remain as rich as their unchecked next advertising puff will allow them to be.

So now if you still want to buy let's see what's happening in the property market in Pattaya? The market is dominated by Israeli managed companies, who have been known in the past to offer deals of 12 per cent to a massive 18 per cent to agents who sold their products.

This may account for the fact that every third foreign business in Pattaya appeared to be a law office or real estate agent. It also tells you something about the mark ups on property to foreigners. Here are some of the major players. Of course I am not saying any of the following groups are scamming. They may be at worst bad gamblers. But often its not their money and I am questioning whether some should be in the business at all.


THE NOVA GROUP


This group is widely known as one of the most professional of the Israeli companies.

Projects normally come in on time. If not buyers have been refunded. In the last year for instance the Nova Group has cancelled highly publicised condo projects called Pacific Bay , Ocean Pacific, North Beach, Nam Talay Building B.

Also Nova principally owned by Israeli Rony Fineman seems to have 'let go' its entire condo staff. This company is getting out of the condo business, towards hotels, and the buzz is that it is moving much of its cash out of Thailand.


Fineman boasts of being a mate of Robert Maxwell, the thieving former British newspaper tycoon who drowned after falling off his yacht Ghislaine. Fineman was the General Manager of Maxwell's Restaurants based in Covent Garden, London. He has dual Irish-Israeli nationality.



THE TULIP GROUP


The Tulip Group is led by Israeli Kobi Elbaz, and other investors and, with the exception of the Centara Grand Resort which was running at 50 per cent occupancy, does not appear to have finished to any of its projects which include Waterfront, Centara Grand Condominiums Na Jomtien and Tulip Residences and Suites.


The Waterfront may have been this group's undoing. I don't know who they upset but all work has been stopped for a while, and City Hall has yet to issue a construction permit - hence their progress reports on their websites all seem to include officials of one sort or another.


Nevertheless you can still buy a condo there and they are advertising on the net.




THE MATRIX GROUP


The Matrix Group of Israeli Miki Haim has the slogan: 'We build our promises'


At the moment still 'Pie in the Sky'.


But seemingly recently it has not built its promises and is late delivering 'The Vision' , The View, Sky Tower, while little work appears to be being done to finish them.

So called completed Sunset Boulevard 1 & 2 have major construction faults, according to the buzz in the industry.


HEIGHTS HOLDINGS

Heights Holdings is run by Israeli Maim David & Herman Van Gucht this group has 18 projects with real problems. Only a few have been finished.

They are heavily advertising internationally. This may be the most controversial of all the development groups.

Belgium born Herman van Gucht has a 'Dr.Death' aura about him. This relates to his time in the United States where he ran USA Real Estates Solutions in Florida before he departed for Thailand. There were accusations of that a representative of his company was forging title deeds to acquire the properties of dead people, mainly Belgian who had bought retirement homes in Florida.




Herman van Gucht, 65, is also in the courts in Pattaya for allegedly stealing the assets of investors who has invested in a project called Thaisiri.


His name is also of course associated with Town and Country Property (24.5 %) . Whispering Palms 49 %,Tropicana View- 47.5 % and with his wife is linked to: The Cube, Peak Towers, Suan Sawan,The Residence Jomtien, Palm Oasis and Palm Springs Saranchol, La Royale and The Cove. He boasts he owned 1000 rai of land in the Pattaya area (through proxies of course)
Heights Holdings have a number of court cases on their hands and others believed to be pending.


POWERHOUSE

Powerhouse. This is run by Jewish New Yorker June Bernard and is years behind in the development of Skylight and Waters Edge. The latter was even nominated for a design award. It would be nice if it got built.



Skylight was the subject of a section in a promo video by Capital TV's Raine Grady. I thought for a moment Bernard was being interviews in the actual Skylight development, but no, it was the lavish sales office.

Skylight is just a few holes in the ground although the video above went to air in June 2013.

June Bernard is known throughout Asia from Bangkok to KL, Jakarta and Manila, for her involvement in 'boiler rooms' - selling fraudulent shares, specialising in 'slopping' – and working on boiler room left-overs (slops).




 

[Carl123]

"This is an extract from Andrew Drummond's article, of todays date."

 

Very interesting, confirms what I had always heard regarding Jewish involvement in Pattaya property development.

 

I would be very interested in Andrew Drummond investigating or bringing to light just how these developers are able to acquire large plots of land to do their projects.

[Evilfriar]

"This is an extract from Andrew Drummond's article, of todays date."

 

Very interesting, confirms what I had always heard regarding Jewish involvement in Pattaya property development.

 

I would be very interested in Andrew Drummond investigating or bringing to light just how these developers are able to acquire large plots of land to do their projects.

I'd assume they buy the land Carl, that's legal for a company to do in Thailand and the only way you can buy land if your a foreigner. 

 

Cheers

[asmodeus]

I'd assume they buy the land Carl, that's legal for a company to do in Thailand and the only way you can buy land if your a foreigner.

 

Cheers

Would be v interested to hear Brutox's take in this given his background

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[david555]

This is an extract from Andrew Drummond's article, of todays date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That Drummond page is Blocked in Thailand by that Green screen..........  http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2016/03/thailands-military-prepares-attack-on.html

 

 

 

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2016/03/thailands-military-prepares-attack-on.html

[Larssonn]

cant thank you writers enough for sharing all this info and special big thanks to Sagitaurius123 for a very informative post .

[sagitarius123]

That Drummond page is Blocked in Thailand by that Green screen..........  http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2016/03/thailands-military-prepares-attack-on.html

 

 

 

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2016/03/thailands-military-prepares-attack-on.html

That's why I copied it......As opposed to providing a link.

 

Was your emoji meant to be sarcastic?

[jerry]

This is an extract from Andrew Drummond's article, of todays date.

 

One section of the community requiring considerable scrutiny is of course the group of foreign property developers in the resort.

Currently foreigners investing their life savings in holiday homes are now more at risk than ever as unscrupulous property developers take cash for projects which will never be built. 

 

Nice bunch ... well that has definitely put me off of buying a condo in Thailand ever again . 

[Carl123]

I'd assume they buy the land Carl, that's legal for a company to do in Thailand and the only way you can buy land if your a foreigner. 

 

Cheers

 

I hate to repeat unreliable gossip, but from a source who has been around the real-estate business for a while I have been told a lot is acquire through predatory lending practices.

[Evilfriar]

I hate to repeat unreliable gossip, but from a source who has been around the real-estate business for a while I have been told a lot is acquire through predatory lending practices.

I had to look that up Carl, never heard of it before.

 

I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to real estate, is there a simple explanation of how predatory lending would give these companies some sort of advantage when it comes to acquiring land? I'm not getting it from what I'm reading.

 

Cheers

[Evilfriar]

Nice bunch ... well that has definitely put me off of buying a condo in Thailand ever again . 

Think you'd already well and truly made up your mind already Jerry 

 

Sorry i missed you on the last trip, you were in Cambodia, hopefully some time in the future can catch up for dinner and a drink.

 

Cheers

[david555]

That's why I copied it......As opposed to providing a link.

 

Was your emoji meant to be sarcastic?

 yes , as it seems they do not like us to know ......I also have it full 11 pages printed ... and almost I find we should welcome the army  for a cleaning up ....for that group ....(not meaning the nightlife group by those...)

[supergeil]

It does seem like some of the company founders have a questionable morale, but I am honestly wondering how much is just due to sheer incompetence.

I think building to a Western standard in Thailand is a huge challenge because it’s harder to source proper materials, and most people in the building process have no experience building to this standard, in fact, with most contractors using poor migrant workers, many of these workers haven’t even seen Western standard and live in sheds themselves (or worse), so expecting them to know about multi-storey plumbing issues, or have the aesthetic sense to not make a mess with cabling etc. is naive.

 

I picked a fairly decent Thai developer myself with a low-rise building where their architect oversaw the day-to-day progress, but the development hasn’t been without problems and was delayed with about a year.

 

Of course the problems were minuscule compared to Art on the Hill, though partly because they got fixed quickly. but the fix wasn’t always cheap. Tiled walls, floors, and ceilings have been redone multiple times, concealed aircondition units have been taken out and replaced, etc.

 

[Carl123]

I had to look that up Carl, never heard of it before.

 

I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to real estate, is there a simple explanation of how predatory lending would give these companies some sort of advantage when it comes to acquiring land? I'm not getting it from what I'm reading.

 

Cheers

 

On the topic of predatory lending and property acquisition:

 

A few years ago it was relatively common to see business cards for short term personal loan companies distributed about as many places as possible to generate business.  

 

I do not stay in Jomtien any more so don't know if it is still as common, but there are many small loan places located about the Pattaya area.  In the USA they are commonly known as title loans or pay-day loans.  A title loan is secured by surrendering one's title to a vehicle as collateral.

 

The average Thai person is probably not well educated in the field of economics, consumer sciences, usury fees and the like, so if a lender can get a Thai person who happens to own a bit of property to borrow some money to possibly support a bad habit like gambling and/or drug abuse (or possibly just a bit of bad luck) then there is a very good chance the lender will end up owning their property through foreclosure.

 

Once a top predator gets their teeth into a vulnerable prey they are almost certainly doomed.  

[Carl123]

I suppose to tie this all up one must understand that real-estate, finance, and insurance are very much interwoven, with the individual companies being holey owned subsidiaries of the parent corporation usually a multinational if for no other reason than tax avoidance.   

[Evilfriar]

Thanks Carl, that's making sense now.

 

So the suspicion is that some of these property developers may have set up such loan companies and used them to acquire the land I take it.

 

Cheers

[supergeil]

I don’t follow what predatory lending and insurance has to do with incompetent developers in Pattaya, nor do I believe that any of these guys are subsidiaries of multinational companies.
 
What we are dealing with is the equivalent of used car salesmen or timeshare sellers. They operate in Pattaya for a few reasons:

• Little regulation and control.
• Cheap labor and materials (so “product” should be cheap to create).
• Lots of gullible Westerners with money who doesn’t have a proper understanding of what they are buying (i.e. the low quality) and with too much faith in the actors operating in Thailand (i.e. “the system”).

I believe Matrix got their start offering “one condo for one million”, this is less than USD 30k and sounds like an absolute steal, couple that with the slick sales people who will start to talk about renting it out when it’s not in use for a 5-10% ROI, and people are sold.

 

It doesn’t require a lot of skill to do what these guys do, just lack of ethics, which is sadly not an uncommon among Westerners operating businesses in Thailand. Of course there are also many Westerners operating very decent businesses in Thailand, but I have met more Western “scammers” here in Thailand than I have met my entire life in the West.

[Phil1975]

Art On The Hill Buyers

 

Have any of you been requested, or have already paid your SECOND years maintenance payment? 

 

For some it is already due, and nothing from Matrix as usual, no communications whatsoever.

 

The building manager spoke to the legal adviser of Matrix 2 or 3 weeks ago, and was told Matrix would get back to her as to who was going to manage the maintenance payments, Matrix or the building management company. 

 

Nothing has come out of Matrix since. Surprise surprise. 

 

Also still nothing regarding when the AGM will be held to vote in a committee.... 

[rick379]

Rent is the way to go ATM ... i see beautiful condos being rented out for prices that are far under market value . 

Thousands of condos empty and the owners are happy to take low offers even if it's only just covering costs .

 

Plus when you rent it gives you an opportunity to see how the place is and the area, if it's noisy or you just don't like it your not stuck dealing with unloading the headache you can pack your stuff and move on...I no neighbors come and go so it makes it a little tough to no exactly for the long term but a quality built unit and sometime in it will give you a good idea about the place.. rent till you know is best imo

[whooshbang]

Art On The Hill Buyers

 

Have any of you been requested, or have already paid your SECOND years maintenance payment? 

 

For some it is already due, and nothing from Matrix as usual, no communications whatsoever.

 

The building manager spoke to the legal adviser of Matrix 2 or 3 weeks ago, and was told Matrix would get back to her as to who was going to manage the maintenance payments, Matrix or the building management company. 

 

Nothing has come out of Matrix since. Surprise surprise. 

 

Also still nothing regarding when the AGM will be held to vote in a committee.... 

 

I have not yet but its hard to say when this is due. I paid everything almost 2 years ago. I am still waiting for my chanote and some money back. Signed back in January and they have dragged their feet ever since.

[Phil1975]

Clock starts from key hand over I'm guessing. That's when your 1 year warranty starts