AIDS risk in Pattaya with bargirls

[Siam Sam]

I never want to go though what i felt like awaiting my HIV test results my last trip. I used to bareback all the time and just laugh about it. Never again.

[yogi02]

I never want to go though what i felt like awaiting my HIV test results my last trip. I used to bareback all the time and just laugh about it. Never again.

 

Regarding BBBJ. I spoke to someone from a local clinic who had CDC stats. There is apparently no documented case of a person receiving a BJ getting HIV. I never understood why they say there was a risk, when they also say there is NO RISK from deep kissing. The fear of tranferring the virus thru bloodly gums, etc. would also come into play during deep kissing, wouldn't it? If this is true, why no risk in kissing, but we are told there is one with BBBJ.

[Dr.Winston]

Regarding BBBJ. I spoke to someone from a local clinic who had CDC stats. There is apparently no documented case of a person receiving a BJ getting HIV. I never understood why they say there was a risk, when they also say there is NO RISK from deep kissing. The fear of tranferring the virus thru bloodly gums, etc. would also come into play during deep kissing, wouldn't it? If this is true, why no risk in kissing, but we are told there is one with BBBJ.

 

I really believe receiving a BJ carries no realistic risk of spreading the virus. They ways in which HIV can/cannot be passed on sometimes seems to make no sense at at all. For example; most people would assume that if a pregnant woman is HIV positive then her offspring will be too, after all the fetus is living and developing inside her body for 9 months. However in fact only about one in three babies born to HIV positive mothers will contract the virus from their mother (they will all test positive for the antibodies at birth but have not contracted the actual virus. They will later test negative for the antibodies). This 1 in 3 figure can be reduced further if the expecting mother takes anti-viral drugs. Personally I find this fact incredible.

 

I have read that carriers are a lot more likely to pass on the infection in the period just after they themselves become infected (usually before they test positive for the antibodies) Apparently what happens is that once the virus enters the body it reeks havoc on the hosts immune systems usually causing a mild flu like illness. In response the body produces antibodies (from this point on they will test positive) to the virus which are initially very effective. The virus then goes into semi dormant phase and the disease progresses at a much slower rate. Personally I believe the risk is allied to the concentration of the virus within the body (known as the viral load). The more virus present the greater the risk. I have also read that it is virtually unknown for someone to pass it on if they are on the latest antiviral therapies which keep the viral load low.

 

To conclude I believe it is the people either in the initial stages of infection or in the last stages of infection when the viral load is high who are the most infective. I would take an educated guess that most of the infected Thais will not be on the latest antiviral drugs and therefore be more likely to have a higher viral load

 

It is all very complicated but I am sure that if you wear a condom the risk must be almost insignificant. I am not a doctor but I have read a lot on this subject since my friends were infected. There is reason for concern but not paranoia as it is very easy to prevent becoming infected by using condoms. I do except that the virus is hard to pass on from a woman to a man sexually but I also believe that if you are unlucky enough to have unprotected sex with a BG who is in certain stages of HIV infection it will be a lot easier for you to catch it from them. Of course this is all just my personal theory based on all that I have read on the subject over the years. It does help a little to explain how random the infections seem to be though.

Edited October 11, 2007 by panyaa

[Siam Sam]

I really believe receiving a BJ carries no realistic risk of spreading the virus. They ways in which HIV can/cannot be passed on sometimes seems to make no sense at at all. For example; most people would assume that if a pregnant woman is HIV positive then her offspring will be too, after all the fetus is living and developing inside her body for 9 months. However in fact only about one in three babies born to HIV positive mothers will contract the virus from their mother (they will all test positive for the antibodies at birth but have not contracted the actual virus. They will later test negative for the antibodies). This 1 in 3 figure can be reduced further if the expecting mother takes anti-viral drugs. Personally I find this fact incredible.

 

I have read that carriers are a lot more likely to pass on the infection in the period just after they themselves become infected (usually before they test positive for the antibodies) Apparently what happens is that once the virus enters the body it reeks havoc on the hosts immune systems usually causing a mild flu like illness. In response the body produces antibodies (from this point on they will test positive) to the virus which are initially very effective. The virus then goes into semi dormant phase and the disease progresses at a much slower rate. Personally I believe the risk is allied to the concentration of the virus within the body (known as the viral load). The more virus present the greater the risk. I have also read that it is virtually unknown for someone to pass it on if they are on the latest antiviral therapies which keep the viral load low.

 

To conclude I believe it is the people either in the initial stages of infection or in the last stages of infection when the viral load is high who are the most infective. I would take an educated guess that most of the infected Thais will not be on the latest antiviral drugs and therefore be more likely to have a higher viral load

 

It is all very complicated but I am sure that if you wear a condom the risk must be almost insignificant. I am not a doctor but I have read a lot on this subject since my friends were infected. There is reason for concern but not paranoia as it is very easy to prevent becoming infected by using condoms. I do except that the virus is hard to pass on from a woman to a man sexually but I also believe that if you are unlucky enough to have unprotected sex with a BG who is in certain stages of HIV infection it will be a lot easier for you to catch it from them. Of course this is all just my personal theory based on all that I have read on the subject over the years. It does help a little to explain how random the infections seem to be though.

 

[x4p3gsu]

To be really safe:

a. Always have sex with a condom - use only high quality condoms and if you are having sex for a long time - change the condom so it doesn't break.

b. Consider using the Durex lubricating gel - this is really beneficial since some girls might be dry and not lubricated down there - which may cause the condom to break or their skin to break and bleed. Using the gel will make everything smooth and will probably make the girl more comfortable.

c. Try to have sex while you are sober (or relatively sober) so that you can follow guidelines a and b above. Most people who barebacked girls in PTY have done so while being drunk.

d. Some guys assume that if they are with a girl for more then a few days or a few weeks - then it's safe to bareback. This is not smart - the girl might not even know that she is HIV positive. The least you can do (still not 100% safe) is to have the girl take and HIV test at a reliable clinic so at least you know that there is a high chance of her being HIV negative.

e. If you are barebacking: use lube. ask the girl when she expects her period so you can know if you are in the right time frame, check out the girls pussy and see that she is not bleeding, has no sores, etc... And always take a quick pee after you are done with sex.

[exe0826]

just strap it up even if you been a few times and done do it Can i ask anybody with more knowledge after waking up from the night before why do the bar girls not give a shit about blokes wearing

[Carguy]

just strap it up even if you been a few times and done do it Can i ask anybody with more knowledge after waking up from the night before why do the bar girls not give a shit about blokes wearing

 

I've asked that question frequently, and got very different answers. They range from "if he is clean, he doesn't have aids" to "he told me he didn't have it" to "I wanted him for husband, and having his baby seemed like a good way to get him" to the most frequent "maybe he pay me more no condom". Mostly its just a total lack of education, coupled with the fact that they boink their Thai boyfriends sans condom all the time, so why not? Some of the newbie bargirls don't even know how to say 'condom', they say 'tung yang'. Most of the bars give them no training at all. What it really comes down to is whether the customer or the bargirl is more irresponsible. Thais don't usually think past today, so you'd better, especially with the new ones to the biz.

[Dr.Winston]

just strap it up even if you been a few times and done do it Can i ask anybody with more knowledge after waking up from the night before why do the bar girls not give a shit about blokes wearing

 

I think that with most people there is a battle going on between what their brains tell them to do and what their emotions want them to do. Alcohol tends to suppress the thinking part of your mind which allows the emotions to dominate. That's why it always seems to happen after a few drinks.

 

Women are much more emotional creatures to start with and therefore tend to do what they feel is right at any given time. If a woman feels good about you then common sense is less likely to influence her decisions.

 

Think about this as it could be the key to understanding many of the differences between the ways men and women tend to think.

 

That's my theory anyway. Of course some of them are just uneducated.

Edited December 31, 2007 by panyaa

[tetrapod]

The instinct to go bareback is primal, we only started using prophylactics on a large scale about 150 years ago. They haven't been around long enough to become part of our instincts. This is why you should avoid mixing drugs with sex. Also, if you're going back home to someone, don't even think about it.

[whitespider - RIP]

copied from another thread - apologies for duplicating but seems more appropriate here

 

????????

 

WHOrg' quotes 1.8m cases in Thailand - thats around 2.7%. It does state this is an estimate.

 

It is almost certain to be higher in the P4P area but yes 40% is way off the mark. Figure oft' quoted for ladyboys is the 40% and although again high I would nto be surprised at 20%+.

 

At a guess I would say maybe 10%-15%.

 

Reason we dont get 10-15% of farang infected is simple. The majority DO wrap up PLUS your chances of infection from sex one time (unprotected) are small. Besides which how many infected farang are going to go on a web board and admit it.

 

FACT guys - your chances of getting HIV here are high compared to your home life. Even a tiny increased rish isn't worth it.

 

Even if its 1% that would be 200 girls in Pattaya and SOMEONE will be sleeping with them tonight!!

 

In the last 13 months I have known only 3 cases but then again I dont know many girls here. ALL 3 of them left Pattaya.

 

WRAP UP!!!! for everyones sake not just your own.

[F.E.Tanaka]

1,8 mill cases of AIDS or HIV in Thailand?

[Siam Sam]

I think that with most people there is a battle going on between what their brains tell them to do and what their emotions want them to do. Alcohol tends to suppress the thinking part of your mind which allows the emotions to dominate. That's why it always seems to happen after a few drinks.

 

Women are much more emotional creatures to start with and therefore tend to do what they feel is right at any given time. If a woman feels good about you then common sense is less likely to influence her decisions.

 

Think about this as it could be the key to understanding many of the differences between the ways men and women tend to think.

 

That's my theory anyway. Of course some of them are just uneducated.

 

I agree with that but I also think that the average BG is very uneducated in terms of sexually transmitted diseases, and does not know the facts. This combined with the fact that she may feel under pressure to please the man (due to her upbringing) and maybe sometimes scared of the reaction they could get when they say no to the man will influence her decision. My excuse is always the fact that I'm pissed. The risk seems to go out the window then, plus you know how nice it feels without wearing a condom. No matter how many times I have promised not to do it, I always do. Just as well I'm sticking to the one girl now.

[Rebel]

http://amuzingthaicartoons.com/picture-2.htm

[GEM]

I think the bottom line when you come to these sort of questions is, be smart, and use protection. I don't mean to imply that you should be smart by using the protection, but really as it's own qualifier, be smart about what sort of girls you pick, and pay a little attention to obvious health signs and such. I mean even if those only point to a cold or something of that sort, who wants to get a cold on vacation? And the last bit about using protection is a bit of a given, but if you're willing to gamble it. My two cents.

[Eastboy]

a lot of good info in this thread.

 

Has any one read :

 

The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS: How a Tragedy Has Been Distorted by the Media and Partisan Politics (Paperback)

by Michael Fumento (Author)

 

Since planning my first trip to Pattaya, I've been doing some reasearch on AIds etc and came across this book

The author has a website at http://fumento.com/ click the articles link

 

It seems the statistics point to low risk for heterosexual sex. I'm not condoning irresponsible sexual behaviour, as panyaa said the statistics will mean nothing if you do get infected, so always wrap up.

[heaven on earth]

scares the shit out of me,never get drunk and ride a bar girl

[ratchada]

my ex-girlfriend is now dying of AIDS. she worked in Pattaya for an unspecified number of years before I met her (I met her in BKK); no telling whether or not she got it there (she worked at a bar beer called Stoney's, I think, on Walking Street), I actually suspect she got it a) directly from her ex-(Thai)-husband, or b) indirectly (shared needles) from that same ex-husband.

 

it's pretty clear she was HIV+ the whole time (6 months) I was with her (and having unprotected sex with her, yikes!!).

 

I've long since tested negative (it's been 2 1/2 years now since I've even heard from her; almost 4 years since we had sex) several times, so I know I'm clean, but still scary...although it also shows how extraordinarily difficult it is to get it if you're a male through heterosexual contact...!

 

ratchada

[Eastboy]

I think that with most people there is a battle going on between what their brains tell them to do and what their emotions want them to do. Alcohol tends to suppress the thinking part of your mind which allows the emotions to dominate. That's why it always seems to happen after a few drinks.

 

Women are much more emotional creatures to start with and therefore tend to do what they feel is right at any given time. If a woman feels good about you then common sense is less likely to influence her decisions.

 

Think about this as it could be the key to understanding many of the differences between the ways men and women tend to think.

 

That's my theory anyway. Of course some of them are just uneducated.

 

 

Yea I know that battle between reason and emotion. Drinking definately impairs the thinking brain (thats why I enjoy drinking, sometimes you need a vacation from the tyrant brain )

 

Another danger I've noticed in my personal experience, is when you have that "chemistry" with a girl . I was with one girl, and we were just fooling around, hadn't put the condom on yet. and I remember just being so caught up in the heat of the moment, that if she let me in without a condom I would have done it. Ofcourse after the orgasm the brain reasserted itself and started yelling at me

 

Anyway best advice is keep your wits about you and dont be stupid

[Eastboy]

I think that with most people there is a battle going on between what their brains tell them to do and what their emotions want them to do. Alcohol tends to suppress the thinking part of your mind which allows the emotions to dominate. That's why it always seems to happen after a few drinks.

 

Women are much more emotional creatures to start with and therefore tend to do what they feel is right at any given time. If a woman feels good about you then common sense is less likely to influence her decisions.

 

Think about this as it could be the key to understanding many of the differences between the ways men and women tend to think.

 

That's my theory anyway. Of course some of them are just uneducated.

 

 

Yea I know that battle between reason and emotion. Drinking definately impairs the thinking brain (thats why I enjoy drinking, sometimes you need a vacation from the tyrant brain )

 

Another danger I've noticed in my personal experience, is when you have that "chemistry" with a girl . I was with one girl, and we were just fooling around, hadn't put the condom on yet. and I remember just being so caught up in the heat of the moment, that if she let me in without a condom I would have done it. Ofcourse after the orgasm the brain reasserted itself and started yelling at me

 

Anyway best advice is keep your wits about you and dont be stupid

[penconfellang]

Bag it every time

[Jaco2]

my ex-girlfriend is now dying of AIDS. she worked in Pattaya for an unspecified number of years before I met her (I met her in BKK); no telling whether or not she got it there (she worked at a bar beer called Stoney's, I think, on Walking Street), I actually suspect she got it a) directly from her ex-(Thai)-husband, or b) indirectly (shared needles) from that same ex-husband.

 

it's pretty clear she was HIV+ the whole time (6 months) I was with her (and having unprotected sex with her, yikes!!).

 

I've long since tested negative (it's been 2 1/2 years now since I've even heard from her; almost 4 years since we had sex) several times, so I know I'm clean, but still scary...although it also shows how extraordinarily difficult it is to get it if you're a male through heterosexual contact...!

 

ratchada

 

..........Or you could be one of the lucky few who are resistant to that particular

strain of HIV. My advice to anyone is always bag up and never use the local ones

unless absolutely necessary. Bring a supply of condoms from the UK with you. It's

not worth the risk.

 

Remember - "No glove, no love".

[Thaiaddict]

man all those readings got me worried to go, I also read that thai girls loves to go bareback and some mamasan knew some girls that's HIV positive but still let them work. wow that's just wrong!! chance of catching HIV and STD in Thailand probably much greater than at your home country I bet??? all those reading got me worried maybe I am not going any more heh

 

any tips on finding some clean girls? but you still never know :(

[layow]

any tips on finding some clean girls

 

make sure they shower..lol

 

seriously no,

[unlucky1]

I think I got it on my first night - used condoms all night then had a moment of madness - stuck it in in the morning for a few secs.

 

I then read a web-site that was misleading saying chances of getting it 1/2000 and had a few times of unprotected (just a moment each time) in another girl days later.

I believe the chances of getting it in Thailand are greater plus if she has an STD which the first girl had then it is much easier transmitted.

 

The girl who I think I got it from worked in Honeypot Club, the other girl was in Soi 6 - I took the 2nd to the hospital and she tested clean for everything, whilst I had chlamydia, which is why I think it was the first girl

 

It's a primal urge not to use a condom I think, which makes it dangerous. In Britain you could shag hundreds of prostitutes and get nothing as they will also make sure you've got a condom on, policing it yourself isn't quite so easy, especially after drinks.

 

I wish they had good education for the bar girls then I and others wouldn't be in this predicament.

Edited July 5, 2008 by unlucky1

[Dr.Winston]

I think I got it on my first night - used condoms all night then had a moment of madness - stuck it in in the morning for a few secs.

 

I then read a web-site that was misleading saying chances of getting it 1/2000 and had a few times of unprotected (just a moment each time) in another girl days later.

I believe the chances of getting it in Thailand are greater plus if she has an STD which the first girl had then it is much easier transmitted.

 

The girl who I think I got it from worked in Honeypot Club, the other girl was in Soi 6 - I took the 2nd to the hospital and she tested clean for everything, whilst I had chlamydia, which is why I think it was the first girl

 

It's a primal urge not to use a condom I think, which makes it dangerous. In Britain you could shag hundreds of prostitutes and get nothing as they will also make sure you've got a condom on, policing it yourself isn't quite so easy, especially after drinks.

 

I wish they had good education for the bar girls then I and others wouldn't be in this predicament.

 

Respect for being so honest. It's only when people have the guts to come out in the open like this that anything is likely to change.