AIDS risk in Pattaya with bargirls

[Dr.Winston]

Has anyone bothered to get a girl tested prior to taking them for multiple days? I saw in a previous post that the testing takes about 2 hours. How much does the test cost? I'm just wondering if it's worth the peace of mind. I always wear a condom, but that doesn't prevent all methods of transmission. I know that at false negatives can be obtained at certain early stages if anyone wants to point that out. Just out of curiosity, don't the girls working in bars and go-gos get tested periodically? I'd hope that if they tested positive, they wouldn't be allowed to continue in those places.

 

You can get some tests that just take 5 minutes. A guy on this forum who was in the medical profession once said that he could get them cheaply and nobody responded to his offer. On the surface it sounds great, you get the girl to take the test and then you know if she is HIV+ or not in minutes.

 

Once you look a bit deeper into it though things aren't so crystal cut. She might be HIV+ but not sero-positive yet (her body hasn't produced anti-bodies to the virus), or what about yourself? Would you like to get the bad news from some home test kit in some hotel room in Pattaya? Also if the test was positive she might not be psychologically ready for the news. In the West counseling you usually be offered for people diagnosed as HIV+.

 

another factor is that many people would just rather not know. A common pattern is for them to monger with abandon on their holiday and then worry and cry like babies when they get home. Unless you are entering into a LT relationship I really believe that the safest approach is to respect the fact that they could all potentially be carriers and wear a condom.

[Tang]

dear friends,

 

 

Pls enlighten me on the risks & what precautions to ba taken

 

Are freelancers safe?

The risks are reality and the precaution is don't have sex, simple as that really. Make your own mind up what choice you make.

[milligan]

Dr. winston that 5 minute HIV is available at the loma clinic for 400 baht its just above the roundabout on the right side of pattaya-Naklua Rd. (668/41-42M.5 pattaya-Naklua Rd, North Pattaya Tel.038-421546)

Sometimes it is difficult to come with a condom on...what are you going to do? not finish? rub one out? ponder what the responsible guy would do?

[ADJ]

Use a condom with anyone you have sex with, frelancers who have been with 3000 men could be clean, a new girl who has slept with one guy could have an sdt or hiv!!!. Dont risk anything

[ADJ]

Dr. winston that 5 minute HIV is available at the loma clinic for 400 baht its just above the roundabout on the right side of pattaya-Naklua Rd. (668/41-42M.5 pattaya-Naklua Rd, North Pattaya Tel.038-421546)

Sometimes it is difficult to come with a condom on...what are you going to do? not finish? rub one out? ponder what the responsible guy would do?

 

 

That is useless really mate, it takes 3 months for the HIv virus to establish itself in the blood stream. At least 2 tests 3 months aprt are needed to get an accurate result!!!!!!. I'd spend the 400 baht on a condom or 2!

[lade]

wear sumpn' while you're humpin'

[jxw]

Hi I am a new member and would like to add my 2 cents on the AIDS topic. I am currently working on finishing my degree as a Doctor of Pharmacy in the United States so I will not reveal my sources about the statistics. I also had taken part in lab research over HIV vaccines a while ago. I had posted this info in a PI blog and was attacked by hardcore bareback supporters but I hope you guys will benefit from the info. A man having bareback vaginal sex with an HIV+ female will have a 5/13000 chance of getting HIV during 1 intercourse in "ideal conditions". "Ideal conditions" assumes that your cock has not had its skin damaged during a handjob, oral sex, or any other activities previous to vaginal penetration. Also, we have to put into consideration that the female vaginal tissue may also be ripped ever so slightly while we are busy giving oral sex and fingering. This is important because if she and you had already damaged the skin tissues of the 2 organs during pre-penetration activities, you may raise your chances of infection by up to 100 times. Suddenly 500/13000 does not look so good does it? THAT IS ALMOST 5%!!! BTW, anal penetration has a 10x increase in transmission rate at 5/1300 in "ideal conditions". Proper condom usage "could" theoretically raise the chances of protection from transmission by up to 50 times. If you do the math, it means 5/650000 rate of transmission during intercourse with HIV+ female in "ideal conditions". However, if you or the HIV+ female has genital herpes. Your risk of infection by HIV will be amplified by 100-200 times since genital herpes causes skin breaks that aid the HIV virus's entry into your body.

 

Once the virus first enter your body, there will be no symptoms until 1 month to 8 weeks later when you suddenly get flu-like symptoms but will quickly recover like any other flu. That is because your immune system has started to work against the virus but will eventually be overwhelmed 6-10 years later. At that stage, the unfortunate person has AIDS. It is such a dangerous virus because no visible symptoms are shown for SUCH a long period of time. During that time, the person can infect many others and keeping the cycle going. Based on my research and my professors, we wont be able to cure HIV for a VERY long time. The virus is too "smart" and our knowledge of the human body is currently not enough to invent a competent vaccine or cure against HIV. Please take care of yourselves friends!

 

On a side note, the HIV prevalence rate in Thailand is an astonishing 3% according to WHO. That means out of 100 people in Thailand, there are 3 HIV+ . Since bar girls are a highly susceptible group to be infected, 3% for the whole population may mean much higher prevalence rate for the sex worker population.

 

 

Thank you for your times! and remember that using a condom may reduce your chances of infection by up to 50 times. Good luck everyone and feel free to pm me if any questions.

[THguypattaya]

wow the risk will be amplified 100-200 times if the HIV girl got genital herpes..that's nasty since sometimes there will be no visible genital herpes so you don't know if she got herpes!!

[jxw]

wow the risk will be amplified 100-200 times if the HIV girl got genital herpes..that's nasty since sometimes there will be no visible genital herpes so you don't know if she got herpes!!

 

If the virus is dormant, like when no outbreak is present, it does not increase your chances by 100 times. It only increases your chances because there are skin lesions in a breakout scenario.

 

Quick question ironfist, Do the admin automatically promote me to TRUSTED after 25 posts? Or is it harder than that?

Edited February 20, 2009 by jxw

[jxw]

You can get some tests that just take 5 minutes. A guy on this forum who was in the medical profession once said that he could get them cheaply and nobody responded to his offer. On the surface it sounds great, you get the girl to take the test and then you know if she is HIV+ or not in minutes.

 

Once you look a bit deeper into it though things aren't so crystal cut. She might be HIV+ but not sero-positive yet (her body hasn't produced anti-bodies to the virus), or what about yourself? Would you like to get the bad news from some home test kit in some hotel room in Pattaya? Also if the test was positive she might not be psychologically ready for the news. In the West counseling you usually be offered for people diagnosed as HIV+.

 

another factor is that many people would just rather not know. A common pattern is for them to monger with abandon on their holiday and then worry and cry like babies when they get home. Unless you are entering into a LT relationship I really believe that the safest approach is to respect the fact that they could all potentially be carriers and wear a condom.

 

It is still better to get them tested though because if they come out negative, your only risk is that they contracted the virus within the last month. Your chances of being safe increases dramatically since you are betting on the chances that roughly 30 guys did not infect her in that period.

[milligan]

great facts JXW....their must be some stats on service men returning from pattaya... or pattaya specific stats...everyone has a huge incentive to lie and fake tests (BM and BG) but their must be a semi reliable source

[Rambone]

Herpes is what I'm really worried about. Kind of hard to hide it from you girl friend or wife when an outbreak hits. And no cure for that either (though Valtrex can help). In US it has 20% infection rate, in Pattaya I'd think it's even higher than that.

[milligan]

JXW you seem to know what you are talking about. you say the risk under ideal conditions is 5/13000 or to put it simply one in twenty six hundred. However with an STD and some high friction sex it can jump to one in twenty six ? does it get any higher?

Is the risk higher when a Bg is floridly infected with the flu like symptoms after a month? Also if a BM is HIV pos what are his chances of giving it to a BG under ideal conditions ? does it change at different stages in the infection or is it fairly constant? and for the BM and BG that are enjoying the high volume/high friction/std/high risk sex without a condom can they protect themselves with ARVs? tell me how this works, thanks

[jxw]

JXW you seem to know what you are talking about. you say the risk under ideal conditions is 5/13000 or to put it simply one in twenty six hundred. However with an STD and some high friction sex it can jump to one in twenty six ? does it get any higher?

Is the risk higher when a Bg is floridly infected with the flu like symptoms after a month? Also if a BM is HIV pos what are his chances of giving it to a BG under ideal conditions ? does it change at different stages in the infection or is it fairly constant? and for the BM and BG that are enjoying the high volume/high friction/std/high risk sex without a condom can they protect themselves with ARVs? tell me how this works, thanks

 

Dear Milligan, Anti-retroviral drugs can help protect yourself from HIV+ individuals but it is not guaranteed. I can't supply a reliable data for how much does the drugs help prevention because this theory has not been proven by enough trials. The scientific basis is that the drugs will hinder the virus greatly when it enters your body by destroying its capacity to bind and enter your nuclear membranes (protease inhibitors), stop its reverse transcriptase activity (reverse transcriptase inhibitors), and various other mechanisms that are more complicated and require a biology background to understand. Yes, it will kill most if not all the virus that enters your body but it is not guaranteed to immunize you since all it takes is one hiv molecule to enter your cell and reproduce itself successfully. The best way to describe its efficacy is to see it as a second condom. Also, these drugs have side effects and hard to obtain without a prescription.

 

The transmission rate of an individual with HIV is directly affected by his or her viral load. During the flu like symptoms stage, her viral load is very high and it makes her particularly dangerous. When infected with HIV, a person undergoes a 6-10 year stage where there are no symptoms beyond the initial flu. The virus fights with the person's immune system daily and continue to reproduce itself as fast as it is killed off. This goes on until the virus mutates to a version that your immune system has trouble destroying and the viral load slowly reach astronomical levels and results in AIDS. If a person were to undergo intercourse with someone who has AIDS, the chances are VERY HIGH that he would be infected. It would no longer be 5/13000 since the HIV+ individual's viral load is through the roof.

 

It is also for a man to give it to a woman than vice versa, I currently do not have the statistics for you. Don't bother having sex with anyone with HIV and other STDs even with a condom. The risk is too high

 

Also, it is a common misconception that someone who just got transmitted the virus is relatively innocuous. This is not true since his/her body has never seen the virus and has no antibodies against it so the viral load will explode exponentially until the flu-like stage takes place where massive amounts of antibodies are made to fight the virus and lower its viral load. It is actually safer after the flu-like stage but none is recommended.

 

In general, cover up and get them tested. If she is positive, sent her away. Her viral load is probably high since most people from developing countries will have trouble paying for the HAART daily treatment like the people in the west. She may either not take any HAART or perhaps take them far less times than she should. It is too high of a risk.

[Al.]

As there are a lot of members understandably very concerned about HIV and also a large number that do not know as much as they should I shall attempt to explain in simple layman terms what HIV/AIDS is.

 

HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) is a virus that attacks the immune system most notably the CD4 cell also known as a T helper cell, the CD4 cell recognizes viruses and infections invading the body then stimulates T killer cells to destroy the intruders imagine a sentry alerting the army that they are under attack.

 

The HIV virus attaches itself to (most notably) the CD4 cell then enters it where it multiplies eventually breaking out and releasing more HIV viruses destroying the CD4 cell in the process.

 

A person is highly and most contagious shortly after becoming infected with HIV i.e. in the first three months before the body starts producing antibodies and towards the end when it has progressed to AIDS when there is a high concentration of virus (viral load). This explains why it has not spread as quickly as expected when it was first discovered in 1984

 

In fact there is a time when although infected they are much less likely to infect someone else as the virus has been largely eliminated although not completely by the antibodies produced by their immune system eventually however after a number of years the virus overwhelms their immune system, basically there are not enough CD4 cells left which in turn leaves them vulnerable to opportunistic infections and they progress to AIDS.

 

HIV becomes AIDS when your immune system is seriously damaged. If you have less than 200 CD4 cells or if your CD4 percentage is less than 14% you have AIDS. There is an official list of opportunistic infections, put out by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). The most common ones are PCP (Pneumocystis pneumonia) a type of pneumonia, KS (Kaposi's sarcoma), a skin cancer, CMV (Cytomegalovirus), an infection that usually affects the eyes and Candida, a fungal infection that can cause thrush. AIDS related symptoms also include serious weight loss, brain tumors, and other health problems. Without treatment, these opportunistic infections will kill you. The sentries are all dead and the army is massacred while they sleep.

 

A person is most contagious when they have a large number of copies of the HIV virus in their blood and bodily fluids (viral load) someone who has a low or undetectable viral load is far less contagious if at all whilst on a medication regime (HAART) and their viral load is undetectable studies are still ongoing regarding this so dont take it as gospel.

 

Antibody tests like the ELISA (cheaper and quicker) or the Western Blot (more expensive, takes longer, more accurate) look for antibodies that were produced to fight the virus however it takes time for the body to produce enough antibodies to be detected.

 

The ELISA test is the most common one used as it is cheaper and does not take as long for a result to be produced it can however produce false positives so is normally followed up with the Western Blot if a positive is recorded.

 

Antigen tests detect the virus directly not the antibodies his test can detect the virus in the blood before antibodies are produced.

 

It is more expensive than an antibody test and can take up to three days to get a result. It can also fail to detect the virus if an infected person's immune system has suppressed the viral load to very low levels or they are taking medication that has suppressed the virus.

 

There is no reason why someone could not get both an Antibody and Antigen test done at the same time this would detect someone recently infected but before the body has produced enough antibodies and someone who for some reason has a very low viral load.

 

The best way to protect yourself is to always use a condom and get regular medical checks for STD's and HIV if you are unfortunate enough to become infected the earlier you know about it and receive treatment the better your long term outlook.

 

If you are infected, with the medication currently available there is no reason you should not live your normal lifespan.

 

Al.

[CockBoy]

Does that mean you could get HIV, and live on medications with a normal lifespan without getting AIDS?

[milligan]

thanks JXW and Al...you guys really know what you are talking about...have the different factors ever been incorporated into an easy to read chart or graph.... or are their just too many variables

[ginseng]

some great information here. I don't like the posts speculating about conspiracy theories or plain old wishful thinking though some elements of how the virus is transmitted are debatable. Hard science works for me. Although you can theoretically live a longtime on antiviral drugs in this day and age, I still would be devastated if I got the virus. For one the medicines are not cheap and with the economy the way it is who knows when you may lose your job and your insurance. The meds are also not without side effects. Also the virus is always mutating, you could catch a strain that the meds aren't effective on. Worst of all would be giving it to my Fiance. That is the real show stopper. If it was just my life than I think I could accept whatever may come but I couldn't accept unfairly changing her life for the worse. Even going in with condoms seems dangerous to me, going bareback just plain stupid.

[THguypattaya]

hi guys is it a week or 3 weeks after your last sex session to get checked up for STD/HIV? I think it's 3 weeks? and it's been 4 weeks since I am back from LOS, but thinking about go to LOS again in 2 weeks....should I get it checked up now and go or just do it when I come back?

[fostraswift]

hi guys is it a week or 3 weeks after your last sex session to get checked up for STD/HIV? I think it's 3 weeks? and it's been 4 weeks since I am back from LOS, but thinking about go to LOS again in 2 weeks....should I get it checked up now and go or just do it when I come back?

 

 

takes 3 months after exposure to be sure with hiv.

[Al.]

To answer some of the questions.

 

Does that mean you could get HIV, and live on medications with a normal lifespan without getting AIDS?

 

The short answer is yes it is possible to live with HIV without it progressing to AIDS this however depends on a number of factors the main ones are.

 

How soon you are diagnosed.

 

Although the current medications do a very good job of restoring the immune system it will never return to its previous level therefore the sooner you are diagnosed the better.

 

Receiving proper medical care.

 

This involves regular blood tests and medication (can be as little as 1 tablet per day) strict adherence is essential.

 

Around 200 people die in the UK alone every year from AIDS simply because they were diagnosed too late for the medication to work

 

thanks JXW and Al...you guys really know what you are talking about...have the different factors ever been incorporated into an easy to read chart or graph.... or are their just too many variables

 

Not quite sure what you mean are you talking about risk factors of contracting HIV

 

some great information here. I don't like the posts speculating about conspiracy theories or plain old wishful thinking though some elements of how the virus is transmitted are debatable. Hard science works for me. Although you can theoretically live a longtime on antiviral drugs in this day and age, I still would be devastated if I got the virus. For one the medicines are not cheap and with the economy the way it is who knows when you may lose your job and your insurance. The meds are also not without side effects. Also the virus is always mutating, you could catch a strain that the meds aren't effective on. Worst of all would be giving it to my Fiance. That is the real show stopper. If it was just my life than I think I could accept whatever may come but I couldn't accept unfairly changing her life for the worse. Even going in with condoms seems dangerous to me, going bareback just plain stupid.

 

The virus needs to find a way into your body in order to be transmitted it achieves this through direct contact with an infected persons blood or bodily fluids.

 

The main risk factors are blood transfusions (now not a factor in western countries as all blood is screened for HIV) sharing needles (drug abusers) unprotected sex (vaginal and anal) HIV can infect the mucus membranes (i.e. inside the penis, vagina, nose, nose eyelids etc.) directly or through cuts and sores in the skin many of which can be undetectable.

 

There are documented cases where HIV was transmitted orally, so we can't say that getting HIV-infected semen, vaginal fluid or blood in the mouth is without risk. However oral sex is considered a low risk activity.

 

There can be side effects to the medication this was particularly true in the early days however with the new medications it is far less likely. Most people have little or no side effects and most disappear within the first 4 months of someone starting medication. Somebody with a very low viral load is more likely to have side effects.

 

Yes the medication and treatment is expensive I cannot comment on the USA as I don’t know however in the UK it is free so no need whatsoever for UK BM’s not to be tested it could save your life.

 

Condoms have proven to be very effective at stopping the spread of HIV as for going bareback I agree with you especially in somewhere like Pattaya.

 

Although HIV is surprisingly not that easy to get from unprotected vaginal sex (for a man) the more unprotected sexual partners you have multiplies the chance of catching it multiply that again by the number of sexual partners they have had and you get some idea of the problem. A bit like playing Russian Roulette.

 

hi guys is it a week or 3 weeks after your last sex session to get checked up for STD/HIV? I think it's 3 weeks? and it's been 4 weeks since I am back from LOS, but thinking about go to LOS again in 2 weeks....should I get it checked up now and go or just do it when I come back?

 

Antibodies can be detected in as little as 3 weeks most within 2-3 months in rare cases it can take up to 6 months extremely rare to take more than 6 months. If you are coming to LOS in 2 weeks you could get checked in Pattaya then again after you return to the US follow your Doctors recommendations.

 

Lastly I would like to say whilst everybody seems to be worried about HIV there are a whole host of other nasties out there just as deadly if left untreated and easier to catch that nobody seems overly concerned about.

 

Al.

[milligan]

Not quite sure what you mean are you talking about risk factors of contracting HIV

 

yes that is exactly what i was asking. The numbers (one in twenty six hundred sliding all the way down to one in thirteen) are fascinating. If someone could put together an easy to read chart or graph based on estimates or even guesstimates it would be a huge step forward. All the factors specifically delineated, even if the risk values were not yet fully known. The terminology was helpful also" ideal conditions" and "less than ideal conditions". One question i still have concerns the odds of an HIV pos man giving it to a BG under "ideal conditions" is it about the same? are the ethics the same ?

[shunsuke]

In high-income countries, the risk of female-to-male transmission is 0.04% per act and male-to-female transmission is 0.08% per act. For various reasons, these rates are 4 to 10 times higher in low-income countries.

 

The correct and consistent use of latex condoms reduces the risk of sexual transmission of HIV by about 85%.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV

 

Adults aged 15 to 49 prevalence rate in Thailand: 1.4% [0.9% - 2.1%]

 

http://www.unaids.org/en/CountryResponses/...es/thailand.asp

[THguypattaya]

takes 3 months after exposure to be sure with hiv.

 

 

how about STD? I don't feel pain or anything but there are some STD that after getting it you won't feel pain or anything, some can cause Infertility and I am worried about that, should I get it checked or do it when I come back?

[milligan]

technically yes but i have never heard of an STD without symptoms (for men ) in the real world.....and try not to worry about the HIV either the stats should put you at ease.....worry about having a scooter accident

 

but the HIV is an interesting topic....and one of these days Dr. Winston may give us a heads up on the two BGs he knows that are HIV positive