Formula 1

[Abracadabra]

[Mstn2014]

15 minutes ago, Abracadabra said:

Obviously taken in the stewards office.

[bangna]

6 hours ago, butterfly bob said:

Mercedes and their fans are the losers. The public wouldn't have wanted it to finish under the safety car. Or did you mean the British public?

I feel the public are the losers because the trust in the FIA has been affected to the detriment of the sport.

Max wasn't punished in an earlier race, Interlagos? which led to Christian Horner complaining when Max was punished for a similar offence at Saudi Arabia. Michael Masi then made on offer to RB to allow Hamilton to pass. When asked if that was in the rules, he replied no but it could go to the stewards instead. Ironically, after that race Race director Michael Masi came under criticism from Red Bull boss Christian Horner, who claimed that ‘every decision’ went against his team during the race.

This week he said cars could not unlap, then changed to some cars can unlap in contravention of the rules, 3 cars were not allowed that same opportunity. 

There is little point in having a rule book if the Race Director doesn't abide by the rules.

I note you posted that only some cars were allowed to pass, also that the safety car was called in earlier than normal. 

[cbmgolfer]

9 hours ago, SteveX08 said:

Not to mention second rate drivers in second rate cars crashing… causing the whole problem ….

That was, ironically, a Mercedes sister team driver 

[JoeNemesis]

Congratulations to Max. Huge sympathy for Lewis, who was a picture of grace last night in the aftermath of the race. Now the legal slugfest moves to the FIA Appeal Court in Paris. A French body with a French chairman hearing an appeal about a Brit. How do you think that's gonna work out?  Jeez, give me another drink

                          🍻

[Edge]

Of course Mercedes are unhappy....they assumed that they had it in the bag and no doubt would have liked a procession to the line behind the Safety Car.

Instead, Masi, having made an earlier controversial decision in the interests of racing, was determined to provide us with a racing finish........ and what a finish it was..... thank you.
RB were gifted just a chance, and they took it....... well done Max.

Now it is to be hoped that Mercedes can show as much grace as Hamilton did and not drag this through the  FIA International Court of Appeal........ F1 would be the loser IMO.

[Fire Bar Matt]

I think Team Principals should rightly do everything they feel necessary on this subject, that’s why there’s governing rules and regulations. That being said, such rules and regulations while written in ink, so to speak, are always open to a certain persons interpretation, Masi made his, Toto disagrees, Horner agrees. I’ve no problem with the teams appealing and wanting rulings formalised, that just part of the sport and where there’s massive ramifications involved you’d want your team to fight for you in every way they rightfully can. 
 

Both Max & Lewis drove very cleanly on that last lap, that’s what everyone wanted to see and while Max was a gracious winner, Lewis was even more so in defeat, I get the impression he’s happy enough with the on track result and will leave it to the team to sort out. I’ve never been team Lewis but the way he handles himself can only be admired. 

[Fire Bar Matt]

And farewell Kimi, it’s been awesome to watch him drive, the last Ferrari WC and it’s hard to imagine a more straightforward guy, his post race interview on Sky was just so Kimi. 

[butterfly bob]

10 hours ago, bangna said:

I feel the public are the losers because the trust in the FIA has been affected to the detriment of the sport.

Max wasn't punished in an earlier race, Interlagos? which led to Christian Horner complaining when Max was punished for a similar offence at Saudi Arabia. Michael Masi then made on offer to RB to allow Hamilton to pass. When asked if that was in the rules, he replied no but it could go to the stewards instead. Ironically, after that race Race director Michael Masi came under criticism from Red Bull boss Christian Horner, who claimed that ‘every decision’ went against his team during the race.

This week he said cars could not unlap, then changed to some cars can unlap in contravention of the rules, 3 cars were not allowed that same opportunity. 

There is little point in having a rule book if the Race Director doesn't abide by the rules.

I note you posted that only some cars were allowed to pass, also that the safety car was called in earlier than normal. 

I tried to explain the grounds under which Mercedes were appealing. Presumably you also note that the appeal failed?

I don't see much hope for the first point about letting all cars past instead (as usual). The regulations say what the race director MAY do. It's not a precise law as some are trying to suggest. And should they all return next weekend to see what happens if they do that?

However, once he decides to let lapped cars past the regulations do say the safety car should stay out for 1 more lap. That would have meant the race finished under the safety car. 

[wadman]

5 hours ago, JoeNemesis said:

Congratulations to Max. Huge sympathy for Lewis, who was a picture of grace last night in the aftermath of the race. Now the legal slugfest moves to the FIA Appeal Court in Paris. A French body with a French chairman hearing an appeal about a Brit. How do you think that's gonna work out?  Jeez, give me another drink

                          🍻

Same way a British TV station (Sky Sports) covering a duel between a British and Dutch driver works out.

[keepitfun]

5 hours ago, JoeNemesis said:

Congratulations to Max. Huge sympathy for Lewis, who was a picture of grace last night in the aftermath of the race. Now the legal slugfest moves to the FIA Appeal Court in Paris. A French body with a French chairman hearing an appeal about a Brit in a German car. How do you think that's gonna work out?  Jeez, give me another drink

                          🍻

Added another reason 

[Mstn2014]

Terrible if it goes to a court of arbitration.

Far better that once heads cool, an agreement is made that:

1. The Abu Dhabi race is declared null and void.

2. The F1 Drivers Championship ends on equal points, Max deemed the winner on more wins.

3. An urgent review of the rules is made regarding the use of VSC/SC/Red Flag periods and the Tyre Changes and Positions whilst in those periods.

In my opinion the rules should state that when a safety period changes from a VSC or SC to a Red Flag all competitors should be allowed to work on their cars/tyres (as now) but that restart position is from the position held BEFORE the safety period started, not when the Red Flag was shown.   Also that in any race in the last 5 laps it is VSC or Red Flag, no Safety Car.   Finally that as long as climatic conditions allow, Restarts are standing starts, apart from Restarts in the last 5 laps which will be rolling restarts.   

That is my view, 50 years of supporting F1 and a period of pit crewing at motorsport ex race display events.   The F1 "Show" don't mind all the controversy but the Sport of F1 suffered greatly yesterday.

 

[JoeNemesis]

13 minutes ago, keepitfun said:

Added another reason 

Yes, fair point. Mercedes wrapped up their record 8th Constructors' Championship, so it's interesting Toto Wolff is going to fight for Lewis' Drivers' Championship. I'm not sure Lewis is up for that fight right now.

Edited December 13, 2021 by JoeNemesis

[Edge]

38 minutes ago, butterfly bob said:

I tried to explain the grounds under which Mercedes were appealing. Presumably you also note that the appeal failed?.....................................

I didn't think they'd lodged an Appeal yet.........got 2 more days to decide and hopefully won't.

Initial protests were rejected by RC.

"Mercedes saw two protests dismissed by the stewards and must now decide whether to proceed with an appeal and possibly take this world championship outcome to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. "

[ZRHuser]

As the problem was created by Masi and he is clearly not capable to work under high pressure I would like to see him replaced. This race he fucked up big time. If I would be Mercedes I would accept the result if Masi goes. 

[vimto66]

Farcical and contrived, in recent years F1 has always been thus.

[Edge]

 

Masi the magician deserves a medal.

Turned a boring switch-off procession into a fantastic one lap shoot out which could have gone either way.

Best man won but of course lots of poor losers.  

[mikeyboy]

32 minutes ago, Edge said:

 

Masi the magician deserves a medal.

Turned a boring switch-off procession into a fantastic one lap shoot out which could have gone either way.

Best man won but of course lots of poor losers.  

You don't believe that rubbish of course ...

Michael Masi , the only man to successfully polish a turd ...

[gatorade88]

Astounding race, could not have come up with a scripted finish like that if I tried! Odd and controversial decision at the end, can understand the intent but it really stitched up Hamilton/Mercedes! I guess Masi wanted to have that grandstand finish.

May have been fairer to red flag and restart with everybody on new tires or somehow work Hamilton's 11 second advantage back on the restart?

Anyway, not sure I see the point of Mercedes appealing now...even if successful it is not like it would be decided to end the race on the penultimate lap, more like they'd just null and void the race entirely Max is still champion!

 

[Edge]

1 hour ago, mikeyboy said:

You don't believe that rubbish of course ...

Michael Masi , the only man to successfully polish a turd ...

Of course I understand the Hamilton fans' PoV.................

.......but sorry, yes I do........it was a 'turd' that needed polishing.

F1 was the winner IMO.

[Edge]

 

 

[shagwell]

1 hour ago, Edge said:

 

Masi the magician deserves a medal.

Turned a boring switch-off procession into a fantastic one lap shoot out which could have gone either way.

Best man won but of course lots of poor losers.  

I've got an idea for next year... after qualifying don't bother with the first 50 or 60 laps or the also rans (they just get in the way) - just put the best 2 qualifiers on the grid one behind the other and let the one behind have new soft tires and the one in front have worn out hard tires and see if the hair can catch the tortoise over one lap - much more entertaining than watching the race unfold over the full distance where tactics and ability on the day would prevail. 

They wont change the result now of course and Mercedes probably realise that but they need to sort that shit out for next year. I can imagine how they feel...

"Lewis you've got this in the bag, 12 seconds up with 6 laps remaining, just nurse the tires home"....."ooh the safety car's out shall I come in for fresh tires?"... don't be silly Lewis that would put you in 2nd and the race might not restart, if it does restart Max has to get through traffic first, stay out there and its your race". 

Meanwhile - "Massi - we need one more lap"... "Ok Christian let me see what I can do... ok 1 more lap then but the backmarkers can't unlap, if they do the race will be over" ... that's no good Massi how can Max catch Lewis with all the backmarkers in the way"... "well you're asking for a bit much seeing as he was never going to catch Lewis anyway before the crash happened - but hold my beer!"

[jerry]

Lot of sour LH fanboys out here ... understandable as losing like this must suck . 

The Fia decision was unconventional but also understandable . It would have been a total anti climax if this epic season had ended under the SC . Also a bit Mercedes their own fault by keeping LH out while they had several chances to get him in for fresh tires without giving up position and if they would have given up position a RB with older white stripe tires (even with Max at the wheel) is no competition to a Merc with fresher yellow/red stripe tires . 

For me as a Dutchie , who had given up hope till i saw Latifi crash , it turned from "ok , it has been a fantastic season but this is not gonna happen for Max into euphoria in a few minutes in that last round" . If this was a Hollywood production you would say this was over the top and a one in a million chance it would end like this . 

I understand the UK guys aren't happy but going by the reaction of the crowd most of them (and most of the drivers) had a bit like the Fia decisions have gone a few to many times into Hamilton's favor and this is payback for the wining of Toto and his crew . 

Don't like Hamilton but i have to give him he handled 'the afterparty' as a gentleman and a good sport . From what i heard he even asked Mercedes to withdraw the appeals . 

[mikeyboy]

3 hours ago, Edge said:

Of course I understand the Hamilton fans' PoV.................

.......but sorry, yes I do........it was a 'turd' that needed polishing.

F1 was the winner IMO.

If you really do believe it , then no need to apologise .

We all have our foibles , mine being i don't believe the best man won on the day , and i am no avid Hamilton fan .

Brand Formula 1 got it's new world Champion and the marketing guys will be well happy 

Mikeyboy 

Edited December 13, 2021 by mikeyboy
add

[butterfly bob]

9 hours ago, Edge said:

I didn't think they'd lodged an Appeal yet.........got 2 more days to decide and hopefully won't.

Initial protests were rejected by RC.

"Mercedes saw two protests dismissed by the stewards and must now decide whether to proceed with an appeal and possibly take this world championship outcome to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. "

They lodged 2 after the race. Both were rejected a few hours later. Only then was Max confirmed champion. What a farce.

There is a time limit to appeal those decisions. I think they've lodged the intention to do so which gives them more time to prepare. Hopefully someone higher up in Mercedes will tell Wolff not to.