White Pines

[soi16]

Sad! Nothing last forever, but Thai forever is ST as with some ladies.

[Marcus85]

Did the silly bitch of an owner ever say why she just let the head chef walk out?

[Kreggerz]

Was also there last night.

There's definitely something going on there.

No I didn't try the calamari again.

I  had a pasta order with a side of chicken parm. It was like negotiating to buy a house to get the order in. A waitress said something funny -- "everything is different now."

I assume they're working on it but it might be a time to give it a break  unless you like drama with your food. 

[just hanging]

1 hour ago, Kreggerz said:

Was also there last night.

There's definitely something going on there.

No I didn't try the calamari again.

I  had a pasta order with a side of chicken parm. It was like negotiating to buy a house to get the order in. A waitress said something funny -- "everything is different now."

I assume they're working on it but it might be a time to give it a break  unless you like drama with your food. 

but the katoey one sorted it for you, right?  I had the pizza last night, 159 baht,  the time before smaller and not as good, last night as good as ever.  good entertainment watching people try and order though, thanks

appears they are trying fix and slowly doing it

[BeerBelly]

5 hours ago, Marcus85 said:

Did the silly bitch of an owner ever say why she just let the head chef walk out?

I heard both sides of the story but I don't feel I have the right to share the information. But as a restaurant owner, I can tell you staff is the number one problem in Pattaya. There are so many job opportunities, so it's difficult to keep staff. If they feel they've lost face, they simply leave and get a new job the next day. And as a business owner, there is not much one can do to stop it.

The one thing I thought was a mistake with her staff when I found out was that her head cook's fiance also worked there. So in the case of losing one staff, she would (and has) lost two staff members.

Someone mentioned they suspect they might be cooking their crusts twice and now that I think about it, they might be right. In fact, I suspect they have never made their own dough and simply buy pre-made crusts from Makro. Next pizza someone buys, check out the bottoms. If you see a regular pattern of holes, it's a sure sign the crust is pre-made/cooked.

[mcfish]

I heard both sides of the story but I don't feel I have the right to share the information. But as a restaurant owner, I can tell you staff is the number one problem in Pattaya. There are so many job opportunities, so it's difficult to keep staff. If they feel they've lost face, they simply leave and get a new job the next day. And as a business owner, there is not much one can do to stop it.

The one thing I thought was a mistake with her staff when I found out was that her head cook's fiance also worked there. So in the case of losing one staff, she would (and has) lost two staff members.
Someone mentioned they suspect they might be cooking their crusts twice and now that I think about it, they might be right. In fact, I suspect they have never made their own dough and simply buy pre-made crusts from Makro. Next pizza someone buys, check out the bottoms. If you see a regular pattern of holes, it's a sure sign the crust is pre-made/cooked.

A top Chef could easily be retained with a cut of the profits plus retainer. Doesn't need to be huge but needs to be a lot better than the next gig

[Kreggerz]

Bought in crusts?

Wouldn't surprise me.

Time to send a 60 minutes crew in there and get to the bottom of all this. 

When it rains it pours. 

[jimboh]

A little bit off topic but can anyone recommend a good Indian close to White Pines?

[just hanging]

4 hours ago, jimboh said:

A little bit off topic but can anyone recommend a good Indian close to White Pines?

not close but on Walking Street.  layla on soi arab, most of the gogo owners go there, open 24 hours

[BeerBelly]

15 hours ago, mcfish said:

A top Chef could easily be retained with a cut of the profits plus retainer. Doesn't need to be huge but needs to be a lot better than the next gig

Maybe, but maybe not.

I have friends in the business who have told me that when you give workers more money, they use it to take more time off. So rather than becoming more reliable and loyal, you get the opposite result.

I don't think her leaving was about money in any case.

[just hanging]

when a chef walks out could be for many reasons. 

dont like working too hard

another place stealing them

dispute with workers/owner

wants too much of a raise

not much you can do about it, professional operation so I am sure the owner tried all she could.  I just sent an email telling her of our complaints, she said she is working hard on it and will be fixed shortly

[BeerBelly]

I went out last night with the intention of trying the calamari, but then I realized it was Tuesday and they are closed every Tuesday.

[BeerBelly]

I went to WP last night to try the replacement calamari and the bacon burger.

First things first, the calamari was below average. They went from the, IMHO, the best calamari in Pattaya to a below average calamari. I normally order the calamari with extra sauce. But this time, you can see the portion is less than half what it used to be and the sauce did not taste good at all. The calamari was cooked okay, but the taste was far from the same. Terribly bland, very little garlic and the dish certainly is NOT prepared the same way. It looked like the ratio of calamari to garlic was changed, so now there is VERY little garlic. And I know from talking to Som before that she would cook the calamari in two step, where the garlic was sauteed in a pan separately. 

I ordered the burger as well. When it arrived, it looked very similar to the burger I got in the past. However, the bacon was not as pronounced,  and he did a very sloppy job placing it on the burger. I don't know if they are using less bacon, or a different brand, but in any case I could not taste the bacon like i could before.

The burger itself was not cooked well done. However, this could be remedied. In the past, I never requested a specific cook level, and I didn't last night. But in the past, it was cooked well done, which is my preference  for ground beef in Thailand. The new cook might simply cook medium by default and can probably cook well done if requested.

The fries come with the same sauce as the calamari, but again, I could not eat it. I had to ask for a dish for some ketchup.

The ladyboy's name is Elle (L?), and she is the manager. I gave her my constructive criticism  (same as I have mentioned here). Before, I would make a special trip to WP just to eat the calamari, now, I most certainly would not. 

I can speculate as to why things have changed so much based on my conversations with the owner in the past. My favorite place to get Thai food is Saengchen kitchen near Marine plaza. However, they suffer from the same issues as WP does now. My favorite dish there is the chicken with cashew nuts. The issue with that place is the consistency. They are open 24/7, so have a large cooking staff. So depending on which cook is there, the taste of that dish can range from good to great.

I think WP has the same problem. Rather than teaching the cooking staff the house recipes, they leave it up to the cook to cook the dishes as they see fit. Back to a conversation I had with the owner, I  asked her how she came up with the recipes and she told me something to the effect of "I just tell Som what I want, and she makes it" and therein lies the problem.

I think this is the problem with Saenchen as well. All the cooks "know how to make" chicken with cashew nuts, but they don't know how to all make it the same. If the new cook is cook, they should let him come up with his own dishes and redo the menu. Otherwise, you will get lot of people who are disappointed that he cannot make dishes as good as they used to be.

When talking with Som before she left, she told me she would be opening up her own place at Pattaya Park. I think she is better than that but I won't be making an excursion to go see her simply because I don't want to pay to go inside the park just to eat her food.

[just hanging]

2 hours ago, BeerBelly said:

I went to WP last night to try the replacement calamari and the bacon burger.

First things first, the calamari was below average. They went from the, IMHO, the best calamari in Pattaya to a below average calamari. I normally order the calamari with extra sauce. But this time, you can see the portion is less than half what it used to be and the sauce did not taste good at all. The calamari was cooked okay, but the taste was far from the same. Terribly bland, very little garlic and the dish certainly is NOT prepared the same way. It looked like the ratio of calamari to garlic was changed, so now there is VERY little garlic. And I know from talking to Som before that she would cook the calamari in two step, where the garlic was sauteed in a pan separately. 

I ordered the burger as well. When it arrived, it looked very similar to the burger I got in the past. However, the bacon was not as pronounced,  and he did a very sloppy job placing it on the burger. I don't know if they are using less bacon, or a different brand, but in any case I could not taste the bacon like i could before.

The burger itself was not cooked well done. However, this could be remedied. In the past, I never requested a specific cook level, and I didn't last night. But in the past, it was cooked well done, which is my preference  for ground beef in Thailand. The new cook might simply cook medium by default and can probably cook well done if requested.

The fries come with the same sauce as the calamari, but again, I could not eat it. I had to ask for a dish for some ketchup.

The ladyboy's name is Elle (L?), and she is the manager. I gave her my constructive criticism  (same as I have mentioned here). Before, I would make a special trip to WP just to eat the calamari, now, I most certainly would not. 

I can speculate as to why things have changed so much based on my conversations with the owner in the past. My favorite place to get Thai food is Saengchen kitchen near Marine plaza. However, they suffer from the same issues as WP does now. My favorite dish there is the chicken with cashew nuts. The issue with that place is the consistency. They are open 24/7, so have a large cooking staff. So depending on which cook is there, the taste of that dish can range from good to great.

I think WP has the same problem. Rather than teaching the cooking staff the house recipes, they leave it up to the cook to cook the dishes as they see fit. Back to a conversation I had with the owner, I  asked her how she came up with the recipes and she told me something to the effect of "I just tell Som what I want, and she makes it" and therein lies the problem.

I think this is the problem with Saenchen as well. All the cooks "know how to make" chicken with cashew nuts, but they don't know how to all make it the same. If the new cook is cook, they should let him come up with his own dishes and redo the menu. Otherwise, you will get lot of people who are disappointed that he cannot make dishes as good as they used to be.

When talking with Som before she left, she told me she would be opening up her own place at Pattaya Park. I think she is better than that but I won't be making an excursion to go see her simply because I don't want to pay to go inside the park just to eat her food.

can i send this to the owners webstie?  she thinks they are fixing stuff

[Kreggerz]

On the calamari dish which there now seems to be a consensus has gone seriously downhill, to me the most surprising thing is the smaller portion. Not because that's the most important thing, but because that's the easiest part to keep the same, and yet, it isn't. I don't think they are going to able to get it back to the way it was with the old chef gone. 

Another thing I didn't mention before is that when I ordered a pasta with an add on chicken parm for 50 baht, the pasta portion seemed downsized from a regular portion of pasta (which isn't that large to begin with). The add on chicken parm option was never on their menu so I guess I can understand some confusion about that, but still, another negative change. 

[BeerBelly]

 

34 minutes ago, just hanging said:

can i send this to the owners webstie?  she thinks they are fixing stuff

Yes, but don't include anything after "I can speculate as to why things have changed so much ..."

[Evil Penevil]

White Pines was a great addition to the Pattaya food scene when it first started.  It offered excellent farang food at very low prices.  At its peak six months ago, WP was the best restaurant in Central Pattaya in its price class for standard farang fare.  In terms of quality ingredients, skill in preparation and taste, WP punched far above its weight class.

But when Som (the former chef at WP) left, that all changed. She really knew her farang dishes and the food has definitely gone down since her departure.  As Beerbelly points out, inconsistency is the hobgoblin of small restaurants in Pattaya.  A change in staffing often spells disaster when chefs change.

A big problem is that a lot of  Thai cooks who prepare farang foos have no idea how it should look or  taste.  In one place (NOT WP),  the cook came out of the kitchen and asked me if the dish I'd been served was OK. I was and I complimented her on it.  She said she never eats farang food, only cooks it and never knows if what she's sending out is good or bad.  I suggested that she should ask the farang boss to taste an example of each dish on the menu so she'd know if she'd gotten it right.

"Boss not care," was her answer. 

I do believe the boss at WP cares, but she may be out of her depth when it comes to finding or instructing a replacement for Som.  It won't be easy to find a Thai cook with Som's skills or experience.

Discouraged by the spate of reports of poor experiences with farang food at WP,  I went with a Thai dish last night.  I had sweet-and-sour fish stir-fry.  It was good, but it didn't set my taste buds dancing.  There are several restaurants in Central Pattaya that offer better Thai food at similar or lower prices compared with WP,  so it has lost its attraction for me until it gets back on track.  I am keeping , but I can't say I'm optimistic.

This is what I had: 

Good portion size, fresh fish and the sauce had the right balance between sweet and sour.  It was, however, a bit dominant and  tended to overwhelm the taste of the other ingredients.  I would have preferred the vegetables to have been cut finer and not in big chunks.  

Santa Penevil

[navidnavid]

Hi Evil... care to share the Thai food restaraunts which are currently your favorite in Pattaya on he basis of value and quality? I go to many eateries based on ur recommendation in Pattaya...

Thanks Evil!

[BeerBelly]

22 hours ago, just hanging said:

can i send this to the owners webstie?  she thinks they are fixing stuff

I got a response from the owner today on FB messenger. She said she's still out of town and has not been back to WP but will get right on it. Honestly, it's been long enough IMHO. It's something that should have been addressed before Som left. I think she is focusing more on her other restaurant, so I won't be holding my breath waiting for WP to be good again.

[DaffyDuck]

Does anyone know where the old cook, Som, has moved to? Maybe doing a comparison of the food would be interesting?

[BeerBelly]

3 hours ago, DaffyDuck said:

Does anyone know where the old cook, Som, has moved to? Maybe doing a comparison of the food would be interesting?

She told me she was opening her own place in Pattaya Park.

[just hanging]

I sent her a few messages and the last one was I was in there a couple of nights ago, and the pizza was really good but took 40 minutes to make.  Said she will work on that when she gets back, and that they make their own pizza dough

[BeerBelly]

25 minutes ago, just hanging said:

I sent her a few messages and the last one was I was in there a couple of nights ago, and the pizza was really good but took 40 minutes to make.  Said she will work on that when she gets back, and that they make their own pizza dough

I wonder how they make their dough. It is really tough. When I make my own pizza dough, it's a two day process to give the yeast time to do its thing. I wonder if they are not giving it time to rise.

[just hanging]

1 minute ago, BeerBelly said:

I wonder how they make their dough. It is really tough. When I make my own pizza dough, it's a two day process to give the yeast time to do its thing. I wonder if they are not giving it time to rise.

yep, you must keep it overnight before you use it for its best taste

[BeerBelly]

6 minutes ago, just hanging said:

yep, you must keep it overnight before you use it for its best taste

One big problem people make when making pizza is they use a rolling pin and squeeze out all the air the yeast is giving off.