Why are indians disliked in pattaya?

[briguy]

31 minutes ago, taylor1975 said:

 I finally walked out the store and a little old thai lady shouts to me "fucking indians" 555

I certainly try not to be a prejudiced guy, but twice in one trip, I was in line to buy something from the cashier at Family Marts in Pattaya and Phuket and an Indian guy went straight up to the cashier trying to skip the line as if we weren't there. So yeah, I get where the dislike is coming from...

[Mat Cauthon]

49 minutes ago, petehoax said:

You will have a great time, no worry. But you must be mentally prepared for quite a lot of rejection, which will just be a result of your skin complexion. You will be able to influence it slightly, but in general there's not much you can do except to move on and not let it sour your mood. 

I have a fair complexion, so maybe they won't know I am an indian lol. All kidding aside, thanks for the honest comments @petehoax.  I have decided not to worry about any of this stuff, just go there and enjoy. If some places deny us entry their loss, onwards to the next one 🙂. 

 

[Mat Cauthon]

1 hour ago, cutter said:

10 minutes later he's on my girlfriends side trying to touch her hand and then asks for if she wants a drink. She tells me this so I tell him to Fuck Off or I'll drop him. He gets confused so another Fuck Off and he gets the hint and scurries away.

Definitely weird, sorry you had to face it 😑.

[Mat Cauthon]

1 hour ago, taylor1975 said:

Was in the 7-11 near the condo and (lucky for me, yay!) a fine group of indian gents inspecting the ingredients of a 200b bottle of hong thong and in deep debate as to who and how this purchase would be financed. Holding everyone up, as is their MO. Bought nothing ...as is also their MO.

 I finally walked out the store and a little old thai lady shouts to me "fucking indians" 555

I was very shocked by the expletive. So add this to the stereotype: their marvellous ability to piss off anyone and everyone.

Well, at least now I know what hong thong is! 😄

 

[OKAY]

OP , what's the Indian Forums say about the subject ?  I'd think most responses on this forum would be by non-Thais and therefore purely 2nd hand knowledge at best.

[Mat Cauthon]

22 minutes ago, OKAY said:

OP , what's the Indian Forums say about the subject ?  I'd think most responses on this forum would be by non-Thais and therefore purely 2nd hand knowledge at best.

@OKAY Did you mean the topics posted by Indians in pattaya addicts or other sites on the web? Mostly I ran across random comments in the forums mentioning this kind of behavior. I searched for other sites but couldn't find any on this topic except for news like indian guy got robbed, got into fight etc - not the kind of info I was looking for. Now that I have found this forum not gonna look anywhere else lol. 

Found some good posts in this forum though:

https://forum.pattaya-addicts.com/topic/293255-must-do-for-indian-punters-for-bm-wins/

https://forum.pattaya-addicts.com/topic/365938-entering-best-lk-metro-agogos-being-well-spending-indian/

https://forum.pattaya-addicts.com/topic/364095-indian-experience-in-pattaya-3rd-visit/

As per one of the forum above, the OP was asked to provide ID for Champagne agogo, but it seems 100 Baht took care of that. Well, I don't care for that but what the hell, I am going there for a good time and not to change the world, as one BM kindly pointed out. 😄

I was hoping to get some info from first hand reports and since some BMs here owns some establishments in pattaya I thought they might also help me understand the reason for the attitude towards indians. Got a lot of info, and even though I am not that kind of a guy I understand the actions of some groups might be going to result in some bad experiences for me. But as fellow BM's here advised, not gonna take it to heart! Will make sure to post here if I do run into any such incidents after my trip. 

 

[Mat Cauthon]

@OKAY My flatmate just got back from pattaya an hour back. He mentioned one incident before he went to sleep. He had gone to Amsterdam club with his 4 friends in pattaya (they came from india, he went from malaysia, 5 people, yeah yeah total stereotype 😅) . They booked 2 grab to get back, one for 3 people and one for 2. When the grab guy called, he asked how many person and he said 3. Once the driver arrived (2nd grab was on the way), he saw 5 people and immediately started shouting in thai. My friend said he kept trying to calm him down and explain that only 3 people will be going in the cab but the driver was not ready to listen, got back in the cab and drove away... Oh well..!! 

Waiting for him to wake up to grill him more on the trip 😁

[petehoax]

1 hour ago, Edge said:

Are you saying that you don't beleve they are true and that you've never witnessed any/all of the traits you've described?  🤔

Or do you simply mean (as I hope we all know) that you don't believe that all Indians are stereotypical?

the problem starts when you experience a certrain situation and then blame a whole nation / race for this. There are enough examples of this even in this single thread, i've quoted one below.

Just because i regularly see annoying drunken English guys, i'd never blame all the English for it. And so on... 

Personally, i haven't experienced many of the mentioned stereotypes, no. But i'm also not a girl and don't go into rooms with Indians  
I see them often in groups talking to a girl, which is not my style but i don't generally have a problem with it because it doesn't concern me. I think most freelancers are strong / experienced enough and encounter a ton of weird behaviour (from all nations!) and i also know quite a few who are very happy to go with Indian customers. Maybe they prefer to get 1.5k for a 1 hour short time with 3 different guys instead of 1k for a 40min short time with 1 guy. (again, i'm iterating the stereotype... who knows how much of this is true).

I think one big thing to keep in mind is that while most western guys will want to discuss the details in private with a girl, it seems in the indian culture it's normal to discuss it with your friends present. So in many of those situations, the guy is just looking for a completely normal short time. but because his friends stand next to him and might discuss the price together with him, most people will assume (based on the stories they've heard / read) that all those guys want to fuck the same girl. 

Personally i don't really talk that much with girls about her different customers, because it either annoys me or because i think they talk too much bullshit as it is or because i just don't find it that interesting. Of course i know that many will not want to go with indian / middle eastern looking guys. But Thais are also racist & classist to the core, so who knows...

I see Indian guys holding hands and i know many here on the forum think this is super strange. I always just laugh about it cause all those same non-indian guys have no problems of hugging each other when drunk or singing songs while staggering through the streets while having their hands over each other shoulders... And so on.
Cultures are different, social expectations are different. People should be more open minded and care less about what others do. 

To sum up: Are all the stereotypes completely unfounded: No, of course not. There's a reason a stereotype exists. But as soon as you start treating people completely different just because they have a certain skin color or come from a certain country, it crosses a line that i don't want to cross. Treat them as individuals, not as "an Indian" or "an Asian" and so on. 

But yes: If i have the choice of sitting in an airplane full of japanese business man or full of indian tourists, then yes, i will pick the japanese business man every single time, sure. But of course i also pick them over tourists from every other nation as my plane companions. 
 

1 hour ago, briguy said:

I certainly try not to be a prejudiced guy, but twice in one trip, I was in line to buy something from the cashier at Family Marts in Pattaya and Phuket and an Indian guy went straight up to the cashier trying to skip the line as if we weren't there. So yeah, I get where the dislike is coming from...

Edited March 16, 2023 by petehoax

[Mat Cauthon]

30 minutes ago, petehoax said:

I think one big thing to keep in mind is that while most western guys will want to discuss the details in private with a girl, it seems in the indian culture it's normal to discuss it with your friends present

I don't think it is a part of Indian culture, well - not the south indian culture anyways, where I am from. I feel it more likely that these groups of people might on their first trip to thailand, or even if it's their second or third trip, they keep repeating the same mistakes. For the vast majority of indians, this will be the first time they are experiencing the sex tourism industry on such scale and they will most probably be awkward and uncertain as to how to go about the negotiation. If one of them is aware of this process, he might do the negotiations while the others might be sticking together listening and making comments. What they don't realize is that for them the girl says no, its 5 minutes wasted, on to the next one - they don't care about the impression it makes on the girl and that it contributes to the overall stereotype. 

For a lot of them, it might be their first and last trip to thailand because I heard a lot of companies finance these trips as a reward. The itinerary will be something like visiting some landmarks, a soapy massage, some extra activities and a certain amount provided to every person for recreation. 

Granted, this doesn't excuse these types of negotiations, but just trying to figure out what is causing them to act like this. 😅

[axunjaxn]

7 hours ago, Edge said:

 

Try not to be stereotypical..... the search engine will help you.

Only 2 of you is a plus, but, if asked, it might be better to say that you are from Malaysia not India.

Do not lie about where you are from. Many girls love Indians and racism exists because of ignorance. People are people. Some good and some bad.

                                                                  Jack

[Arnie85]

The only thing I have to add to this conversation :

It’s still amusing when two straight Indian guys walk down the street holding hands. 

[axunjaxn]

1 hour ago, petehoax said:

the problem starts when you experience a certrain situation and then blame a whole nation / race for this. There are enough examples of this even in this single thread, i've quoted one below.

You are too smart for this thread. I have seen English ,Aussies, U.S. guys do much worse than the Indians.

                                                                                                                                       Jack

[Edge]

 

@petehoax

So, the second one.  

 

Yes I know about drunken Brits, loud Yanks, belligerent Krauta, smelly Frogs etc etc etc.
All best avoided.

I do try to treat everyone as an individual, though that's more difficult with groups.

A GoGo I frequent does allow Indians in, but has them 'vetted' re' spending and is wary of groups.
The manager had agreed to accept a baht bus full from NWG Soi 6, on condition they took bottle service.
When I arrived they (12-13) had settled in and around the VIP area and the 'accountant' was metering out the single bottle of JW Red and then the soda water.
I must have been watching them a bit obviously as the manager came over and explained.
I asked how much he made on one bottle of JW and he said 'Ah but with that number I'll get them on the extra mixers.'
I said 'Hmm but did you see that guy just went into the toilets with two empty soda bottles and came back with them full?'
I won't dwell on their behaviour, but yes it was stereotypical and the exercise won't be repeated.

Perhaps what one encounters depends how much time you've spent here and where you go.  

Something you touched upon -
Try this....   https://forum.pattaya-addicts.com/topic/113208-the-trials-tribulations-of-thai-livingontheedge/?do=findComment&comment=1828728

 

[taylor1975]

There's actually a topic like this on quora website. It seems indians have a bit of a bad rep for travelling to other countries too. I recall one indian chap posting something like "westerners are unhappy with us because we know how to negotiate and they don't" 555

[jetdoc]

Personally had two experiences with Indians. One was I couldn't get a first class seat on a flight from HNL to NRT because an Indian family of five bought the entire first class cabin. The other was, couldn't get a seat on the bus from hotel to NRT because Air India flight crew did not want any else on the bus. hotel paid for my taxi to the airport, so no harm no foul. Don't know if Indians are a bit racist, but have suspicions.

[Herbby]

4 hours ago, OKAY said:

OP , what's the Indian Forums say about the subject ?  I'd think most responses on this forum would be by non-Thais and therefore purely 2nd hand knowledge at best.

Nah, I live in Bangkok and it is the same here. And I have seen it with my own eyes (all the examples mentioned on here) a number of times. I know a few bar owners and girls and they confirm this is a fairly regular occurrence. That said, I think it generally happens when they are in groups.

 

I was sat chatting with an Indian dude one night and he was complaining how groups of his countrymen “ruin it for most of us” with this type of behaviour. It’s a shame as all Indians obviously get lumped in a being the same, which is obviously not true.

[petehoax]

2 hours ago, Edge said:

So, the second one.  

i know you're half-joking. but no, it's closer to the first one tbh. 

let's take your cheap charlie in gogos example: the number of Indians i encounter in a gogo sharing a drink or being overly cheap is much much lower than the amounts of farangs i see that are nudging their single draft beer for an hour while looking miserably and ogling the girls and never ever buying a LD. 

of course that could just be the result of Indians not being let into the gogo in the first place.

And yes, i'm sure many bar owners / managers have made bad experiences. I'm also sure that many gogos / bars lost out on a ton of income by not letting an Indian into the door although they might have spent 10k+ on that single visit. 

Is their stance warranted: I have no idea. You're certainly much more in contact with owners / managers and regularly talk to them. It might also be the case that the situation nowadays would (or should) be much different from how it was 10+ years ago, which was when many managers / owners probably decided to not let them in at all. 

I don't think it would (or should) be overly difficult to let someone into the bar, tell them that everyone in the group needs to order at least one new drink (for themselves or for a BG) every 30minutes and if they don't order, then kick them out. 

No bar manager would think of not letting English guys into their bar (just because of their nationality) although i suspect that they are probably responsible for over 50% of all fights that happen in a bar in pattaya (again, maybe i'm completely wrong, that's just the image / impression that i have). 

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me: If "all" Indians are so cheap and don't want to spend money, how does it come that there are 5+ Indian nightclubs on Walking Street opening up over the last years (and booming from what i hear) and all of them have higher drink prices than all other western/asian focused clubs on WS? Afaik all of them ask for at least 200+ thb for a single beer bottle and have bottle requirements for a table and so on. And my understanding is that many of them are packed night after night, at least they used to pre-covid. 
Again: Maybe my impression of these clubs is wrong, maybe the situation changed and maybe they're not actually that expensive or the avg customer in there doesn't really spend. I've actually never gone inside (still on my bucket list). 
But if many Indians are happy to spend so much in the nightclub, i assume they'd also be happy to spend a lot in a gogo if they feel welcome. 

Of course: Not everyone is the same. Some will be cheap charlies, some will have tons of money. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by petehoax

[Thomaz73]

7 minutes ago, petehoax said:

don't think it would (or should) be overly difficult to let someone into the bar, tell them that everyone in the group needs to order at least one new drink (for themselves or for a BG) every 30minutes and if they don't order, then kick them out

After the Pin Up moan here, I have made the same point I few times. It's not an unreasonable requirement. 

They might get tired of having to kick out disgruntled, fat, old, farang expats, though. 

[petehoax]

38 minutes ago, Thomaz73 said:

fat, old, farang expats, though. 

heyheyhey, no stereotyping here. There are also fat young farang expats!  

[rioman]

4 hours ago, petehoax said:

the problem starts when you experience a certrain situation and then blame a whole nation / race for this. There are enough examples of this even in this single thread, i've quoted one below.

Just because i regularly see annoying drunken English guys, i'd never blame all the English for it. And so on... 

Personally, i haven't experienced many of the mentioned stereotypes, no. But i'm also not a girl and don't go into rooms with Indians  
I see them often in groups talking to a girl, which is not my style but i don't generally have a problem with it because it doesn't concern me. I think most freelancers are strong / experienced enough and encounter a ton of weird behaviour (from all nations!) and i also know quite a few who are very happy to go with Indian customers. Maybe they prefer to get 1.5k for a 1 hour short time with 3 different guys instead of 1k for a 40min short time with 1 guy. (again, i'm iterating the stereotype... who knows how much of this is true).

I think one big thing to keep in mind is that while most western guys will want to discuss the details in private with a girl, it seems in the indian culture it's normal to discuss it with your friends present. So in many of those situations, the guy is just looking for a completely normal short time. but because his friends stand next to him and might discuss the price together with him, most people will assume (based on the stories they've heard / read) that all those guys want to fuck the same girl. 

Personally i don't really talk that much with girls about her different customers, because it either annoys me or because i think they talk too much bullshit as it is or because i just don't find it that interesting. Of course i know that many will not want to go with indian / middle eastern looking guys. But Thais are also racist & classist to the core, so who knows...

I see Indian guys holding hands and i know many here on the forum think this is super strange. I always just laugh about it cause all those same non-indian guys have no problems of hugging each other when drunk or singing songs while staggering through the streets while having their hands over each other shoulders... And so on.
Cultures are different, social expectations are different. People should be more open minded and care less about what others do. 

To sum up: Are all the stereotypes completely unfounded: No, of course not. There's a reason a stereotype exists. But as soon as you start treating people completely different just because they have a certain skin color or come from a certain country, it crosses a line that i don't want to cross. Treat them as individuals, not as "an Indian" or "an Asian" and so on. 

But yes: If i have the choice of sitting in an airplane full of japanese business man or full of indian tourists, then yes, i will pick the japanese business man every single time, sure. But of course i also pick them over tourists from every other nation as my plane companions. 
 

There are even stereotypes towards members of this board - from members who have not met  or know nothing about each other - so you could be an Indian or a knuckle-dragger to the detritus of society just by being on here/commenting - lol.  The great thing about Pattaya or other developing countries is that one way or the other you can get what you want even if this exists.  

[Aussie Whoremonger]

People are so desperate to not appear racist that they want to deny reality. Stereotypes exist for a reason, and its unfair on the individuals or people they dont apply to but it is what it is. At the same time, people need to be held accountable for the actions and called out on their behavior too, pretending it does not happen just be polite is not on either. Simply put there is a huge culture clash with a lot of the Indians who visit. 

You hear horror stories from the girls, and its too common and frequent for it not to be true. Demands they service multiple men, sometimes groups of men lying in wait for the girl to get to the room, excessive negotiation over prices, refusing to spend money in the bars and gogos while they just sit there staring and treating them really poorly in private. 

Then the are the issues with them being unaware or completely indifferent towards everyone around them. The noise in some hotels with them is ridiculous at times, as are the large groups that will often just block entire sidewalks without any consideration for anyone else

Its not great that this reflects on the Indians who dont behave like this, but blaming it on ignorant racism is a load of nonsense. 

[manni2011]

I wonder how many fewer gold chains would be stolen each year if Indians were welcomed into gogos and didn’t have to resort to haggling with touchy feely ladyboys in the darkened streets of Pattaya. 😀

[ex-pat]

12 hours ago, Arnie85 said:

The only thing I have to add to this conversation :

It’s still amusing when two straight Indian guys walk down the street holding hands. 

That is common lots of places, but maybe less so now than it used to be. First time in the Philippines , which was a long time ago, I had to explain to my my taxi driver/guide, to not hold my hand because it was not customary where I  came from.

Come to think of it, it was super common for Thai girls to do when I first came to LOS - don't see it much anymore. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by ex-pat

[Bonkabit]

13 hours ago, petehoax said:

If i have the choice of sitting in an airplane full of Japanese business man or full of Indian tourists, then yes, I will pick the Japanese business man every single time,

HINT I was give years ago when I started regular travelling.

There are two queues at the airport, one of five Indians, the other of twenty whites (European, American, Australian etc). Which queue do you join?

Answer -  the longer 'White' queue will move very much quicker. Because the Indians will not have their papers organised, will take ages to do everything, will dispute, talk endlessly etc. 

My experience over at least twenty years: hint was correct.

[Lam Chabang]

14 hours ago, petehoax said:

I see Indian guys holding hands and i know many here on the forum think this is super strange. 

To Pete Hoax point:  I have see 100's of Walking St videos where you see Indians locked arm and arm.  Are they gay?  Don't know, but it seems to me "super strange".  I guarantee when I walk down WS it would only be arm and arm with a hot Thai chick. 

Why do Indian guys hang on each other?....Maybe it is a cultural thing.  Don't know.  But IMHO dudes should not be hugging each other like you see in these videos.

I don't think this is a racist or homophobic comment, but to each HIS own.  I like women.