Long Haul Business Class for under $2K (Long Post)

[Luv2Phuket]

Right on cue!  555

Here is a blog reviewing the inaugural LAX-TPE flight earlier this week (looks excellent):

https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/starlux-airlines-business-class-airbus-a350/

It claims Starlux bookings using Alaska miles will open this summer.

[slashlarue]

Last year I got 150,000 sign-up miles on Plat Amex. From my United card (which I spent everything on, everything), I went well over 300,000. I also have a Marriott Bonvoy card that I don't use anymore and has many miles on it but it is only suitable for hotels. I've been saving these for the Courtyard in Pattaya, and they keep giving the free night certificate, which went by the wayside many times in the last three years. As for where I've gone and going to, there is only one regular Marriott. This would wipe out all of the award points, and I don't think it's worth it.

I've been watching some good travel geeks on (if you can believe it) TikTok, and they have a lot of good advice, things I never knew. Many of them said to book six months out for a points flight if you can. So I tried it, and they were right. I was able to get (I know this is about business class flights) a flight in coach (Asiana, in January/24) for less than half the oneway points in the high season/summer. A long way out, but I couldn't pass it up.

And that f_ucking American Airlines (a budget carrier masquerading as a legacy carrier) canceled the miles balance last year. Real Sc_umbags, as when was I going to use them, say, two years ago? I never fly them anyway. United was just the opposite.

[Luv2Phuket]

1 hour ago, slashlarue said:

Last year I got 150,000 sign-up miles on Plat Amex. From my United card (which I spent everything on, everything), I went well over 300,000. I also have a Marriott Bonvoy card that I don't use anymore and has many miles on it but it is only suitable for hotels. I've been saving these for the Courtyard in Pattaya, and they keep giving the free night certificate, which went by the wayside many times in the last three years. As for where I've gone and going to, there is only one regular Marriott. This would wipe out all of the award points, and I don't think it's worth it.

I've been watching some good travel geeks on (if you can believe it) TikTok, and they have a lot of good advice, things I never knew. Many of them said to book six months out for a points flight if you can. So I tried it, and they were right. I was able to get (I know this is about business class flights) a flight in coach (Asiana, in January/24) for less than half the oneway points in the high season/summer. A long way out, but I couldn't pass it up.

And that f_ucking American Airlines (a budget carrier masquerading as a legacy carrier) canceled the miles balance last year. Real Sc_umbags, as when was I going to use them, say, two years ago? I never fly them anyway. United was just the opposite.

A few thoughts:

Marriott Bonvoy can be transferred to just about every airline.  I think the exchange rate is 3 Bonvoy for 1 mile, but you get 5000 bonus miles for doing 60,000 Bonvoy, so the effective rate is 60,000 Bonvoy for 25,000 miles.

While not great, it can be a way to build miles in an airline that is difficult to earn miles with (like Korean Air).

I try to never waste free ngiht certificates, even if it is just a "staycation" for a night where I live.  Since I live in Las Vegas, it's not too hard! 555

I fell behind due to some cancelled trips and poor planning on others, and have 2 that are about to expire.  I will use 1 a week from Friday, staying at MGM (Hyatt) when friends are there; I will try to find a Saturday night to kill my leftover Hilton certificate at Resorts World.  I could do the Waldorf Astoria, but I get free parking at Resorts World vs a $30 charge at Waldorf....and I'm a cheap fuck! 555

As for booking way out, I've been doing that for years.  In the "heyday" of Cathay having availability and being a top notch carrier, they would generally open ONE first class seat about 11 months out (think it was 334 days).  Typically, it would be booked within a day or two, so I would keep checking to see the first day that I could book it, and jump on it asap.

Miles expiration sucks ass, but it is fairly easy to extend their life with just about any carrier.  I think AA expires every 2 or 3 years, unless you take some action.  I could be wrong, but I think BA is the same.  AA is simple - you can sign up to do online marketing polls or use their online shopping mall to keep you miles alive.  I think United and Delta have no expiration.

There are exceptions - EVA has a firm "shelf life," with no way to extend them.  I got lucky as Hell when I was able to cash out 75,000 EVA miles about a month before they were set to expire.  I think Singapore has a firm shelf life of 3 years with no way to extend, as well.

 

[davidge]

29 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Marriott Bonvoy can be transferred to just about every airline.  I think the exchange rate is 3 Bonvoy for 1 mile, but you get 5000 bonus miles for doing 60,000 Bonvoy, so the effective rate is 60,000 Bonvoy for 25,000 miles.

Thanks for that. I’ve stayed at the Marriott a few times but will never get enough points on that account to get anything out of it. I’ve just transferred to BA Avios which means I’ll get something out of it as I use a BA Credit Card. 

I wonder if I can do similar with Accor and IHG? I’ll have to look into it. I’ve already transferred my Nectar.

Definitely got enough for a free night at many hotels now.

[bgtp]

5 hours ago, davidge said:

I wonder if I can do similar with Accor and IHG? I’ll have to look into it. I’ve already transferred my Nectar.

Both Accor and IHG let you covert points to BA Avios, but I don’t think the conversion rate is a good value. IHG also let’s you change your earning preference for stays from their points to BA Avios. Again, not a good value, but sometimes, if I’m only staying one night, I change to get the points in Avios if I want to get some activity in order to reset the expiration date.

[davidge]

9 hours ago, bgtp said:

Both Accor and IHG let you covert points to BA Avios, but I don’t think the conversion rate is a good value. IHG also let’s you change your earning preference for stays from their points to BA Avios. Again, not a good value, but sometimes, if I’m only staying one night, I change to get the points in Avios if I want to get some activity in order to reset the expiration date.

Thanks. I did a quick check and saw it’s possible. IHG won’t let you convert unless you’ve got at least 10000 points. I don’t know if there’s anything similar with Accor. I don’t use hotels a lot, but usually have 6-8 overnight stays a year for concerts and maybe one or two at Heathrow. Realistically, I’m not going to get enough points with any hotel for free nights - I stay in a few different ones depending on cost but usually Marriott, Accor or IHG as they’re the convenient ones for the concerts. I’m at 8200 with IHG but am staying in one this week. I’ve no idea how many points I’ll get for that.

[slashlarue]

21 hours ago, Luv2Phuket said:

A few thoughts:

Marriott Bonvoy can be transferred to just about every airline.  I think the exchange rate is 3 Bonvoy for 1 mile, but you get 5000 bonus miles for doing 60,000 Bonvoy, so the effective rate is 60,000 Bonvoy for 25,000 miles.

Yes, but I don't think 3-1 is a good deal.

[Little Evil]

Sorry if this has been covered already. Currently viewing the forum from a phone and harder to look back on posts. 

Been finding JAL F seats to/from JFK for September this year via AA. 110k one way. Thought it would be worth noting since it's been a while since I've seen F seats on this route.

[jmukh]

After beginning my points-whoring during the pandemic as a way to daydream about travel, I'd mostly redeemed for short flights to S. America (JetBlue to Medellin) or Marriott hotel rooms so far.

Last month, I finally scored a business class redemption (KLM economy to Europe, Air France lie-flat business back to the US). This was during a peak flight period over the easter break where cash pricing was through the roof.

I have to say, I have mixed thoughts on business class. I *loved* the improved lounge facilities (the Air France business class lounge blows away anything I've seen on the Priority Pass network with the exception of Hong Kong or Bangkok's lounge options), the ability to get an absolutely perfect night's sleep on the flight back, and the great food / drink options (who would have thought I'd ever enjoy airport or flight meals?). Noise canceling headphones were a nice touch. Priority check-in (after explaining to a bitchy nordic woman about 83483883x times that yes, I indeed have a business class ticket) (though I had to keep it polite, she had six inches and 40 pounds on me) was ok, but unnecessary since I usually get to airports early.

Interesting fact on priority boarding: in Paris, the business class boarding line bypasses secondary screening for US flights. I guess the terrorists only fly economy?

But all of that said, I'm still not sure I'd ever pay the full cash price on those tickets. The idea of dropping a couple of thousand (sometimes, as high as $20k) on tickets for an experience that lasts one flight is difficult to justify in my head; I immediately think of what a couple of thousand extra dollars buys you in Pattaya or Medellin as a comparison. Even with the 5x back on the Amex Platinum, I can't justify the price.

As a points redemption, however, I'm completely hooked. How am I going to fly a damn economy ANA ticket to Pattaya every winter now, sitting in the back with the rest of the peasants?

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by jmukh

[Luv2Phuket]

12 minutes ago, jmukh said:

After beginning my points-whoring during the pandemic as a way to daydream about travel, I'd mostly redeemed for short flights to S. America (JetBlue to Medellin) or Marriott hotel rooms so far.

Last month, I finally scored a business class redemption (KLM economy to Europe, Air France lie-flat business back to the US). This was during a peak flight period over the easter break where cash pricing was through the roof.

I have to say, I have mixed thoughts on business class. I *loved* the improved lounge facilities (the Air France business class lounge blows away anything I've seen on the Priority Pass network with the exception of Hong Kong or Bangkok's lounge options), the ability to get an absolutely perfect night's sleep on the flight back, and the great food / drink options (who would have thought I'd ever enjoy airport or flight meals?). Noise canceling headphones were a nice touch. Priority check-in (after explaining to a bitchy nordic woman about 83483883x times that yes, I indeed have a business class ticket) (though I had to keep it polite, she had six inches and 40 pounds on me) was ok, but unnecessary since I usually get to airports early.

Interesting fact on priority boarding: in Paris, the business class boarding line bypasses secondary screening for US flights. I guess the terrorists only fly economy?

But all of that said, I'm still not sure I'd ever pay the full cash price on those tickets. The idea of dropping a couple of thousand (sometimes, as high as $20k) on tickets for an experience that lasts one flight is difficult to justify in my head; I immediately think of what a couple of thousand extra dollars buys you in Pattaya or Medellin as a comparison. Even with the 5x back on the Amex Platinum, I can't justify the price.

As a points redemption, however, I'm completely hooked. How am I going to fly a damn economy ANA ticket to Pattaya every winter now, sitting in the back with the rest of the peasants?

 

I just read a discussion of a similar issue (is biz/first class overrated?) in this blog:

https://onemileatatime.com/insights/first-business-class-overrated/

I could use my points/miles for economy redemptions at half the cost of biz, but there is no way I would do so.  If I'm doing a redemption for truly long haul (i.e., more than 6 hours or so), it is for biz or first only.

While I'm with you on not spending 5-figues for a flight, I would only go down to premium economy. 

As I have stated before, I think I would just skip the trip before I would spend 20+ hours crammed into an economy seat. 

I'm 6'2" and 245 lbs (but dropping by the day! 555) with balky knees.  Economy for anything more than about 5 hours is pure torture for me.  Hell, even on a 3+ hour domestic flight, I gotta be in main cabin extra, if not the exit row.

[Jake.houston]

I’ll be back in Patts next month. I decided to leverage some JAL and American points I had to book in premium economy. This will be my first time not going business to Asia in about 9 years.

The JAL product has solid reviews in premium economy. I will know soon enough.

[Luv2Phuket]

16 hours ago, Jake.houston said:

I’ll be back in Patts next month. I decided to leverage some JAL and American points I had to book in premium economy. This will be my first time not going business to Asia in about 9 years.

The JAL product has solid reviews in premium economy. I will know soon enough.

I have yet to find a decent way to book PE with AA miles. 555

VERY curious to hear your thoughts on JAL PE.  Based on my research, it appears to be similar to domestic first, with decent width and the most legroom of any PE product I could find (40+ inch pitch, IIRC).  I think it also is 3-3-3, so an aisle seat in the center section could be good to set up a "don't crawl over me" situation.

I'm DYING to get back, but other trips have relegated me to August (+ I don't want to take too many trips and fuck up my current position, even though I work remotely).

The WORST part is that I am spending a fucking arm and a leg to go to a Hall of Fame induction for friend in June -- what I'm dropping on flight, transport & hotel could have gotten me to Thailand and back!  555

[Jake.houston]

On 10/05/2023 at 12:43, Luv2Phuket said:

I have yet to find a decent way to book PE with AA miles. 555

I kinda cheated and crossed my AMEX points with the JAL/AA miles. AMEX travel is very helpful in my experience.

[slashlarue]

On 09/05/2023 at 20:06, Luv2Phuket said:

I just read a discussion of a similar issue (is biz/first class overrated?) in this blog:

https://onemileatatime.com/insights/first-business-class-overrated/

I could use my points/miles for economy redemptions at half the cost of biz, but there is no way I would do so.  If I'm doing a redemption for truly long haul (i.e., more than 6 hours or so), it is for biz or first only.

While I'm with you on not spending 5-figues for a flight, I would only go down to premium economy. 

As I have stated before, I think I would just skip the trip before I would spend 20+ hours crammed into an economy seat. 

I'm 6'2" and 245 lbs (but dropping by the day! 555) with balky knees.  Economy for anything more than about 5 hours is pure torture for me.  Hell, even on a 3+ hour domestic flight, I gotta be in main cabin extra, if not the exit row.

For me, a slightly shorter 😆, I just can't give up so many miles just for crappy business class seats and boarding first. Sometimes you can get two round-trip flights for the number of miles it takes for one (maybe just oneway) business class ticket. I did this a few years back and regretted it. But that's just me.

[slashlarue]

Well, actually, I regretted it a little. I always wanted to fly on the upper deck of a 747, and Delta 2016 was/is partners with ANA. So I got a business class ticket for like 125,000 one-way BKK-JFK. Thai Airways flew BKK-HND, and HND-JFK was ANA. I did it because I also wanted to fly the Thai 747. After all, they were slowly being taken out of service.

[jmukh]

On 12/05/2023 at 08:49, slashlarue said:

For me, a slightly shorter 😆, I just can't give up so many miles just for crappy business class seats and boarding first. Sometimes you can get two round-trip flights for the number of miles it takes for one (maybe just oneway) business class ticket. I did this a few years back and regretted it. But that's just me.

I'm also shorter, though not much lighter. For me, I am realizing that I am (at least currently) accruing miles faster than I can afford to travel to Thailand, so while it is true that I could book two economy tickets for that number of points, the reality is that the points balances will keep increasing because I won't be able to take twice the number of trips in economy that I could do in business.

A related issue is timing. If I get a trip approved at work last-minute (like last winter's Asia trip, when I knew my dates about a week and a half in advance), I can't book an economy ticket at half the number of miles of a great business class redemption. In those scenarios, an economy trip on points is going to cost me more points than a great business class redemption. (Air France, on my recent trip, had dates where economy cost 2x+ what I paid in business for flying a couple of days earlier). In a situation where I've got to fly last-minute for Asia where the good business class bookings were sold out a year in advance, I'd just pay cash for economy instead of wasting the points.

If my balances slow down and I find myself booking an increasing number of legs in cash, I might reconsider, but for now I'm really hoping to score business class to Asia at some point in the coming year. We'll see how it goes.

[Little Evil]

That supposed JAL F availability via AA's program I posted about last week....maybe not true. I actually tried to book something and it seems to always throw a "We're sorry but at least one of the flights or fares you chose is no longer available." error. You then look up the flights again and it shows up again. Called in and the first agent I spoke to couldn't figure it out either. Ghost availability? Last seat issue?  My itinerary would start or end in Boston, so I'd have a short Jet Blue flight BOS to JFK. Could that be it? I tried both outbound and inbound trips on multiple days. Anyone get that error before? 

Will try calling again, but I thought I'd check in with the brain trust first before wasting time. 

[slashlarue]

On 15/05/2023 at 10:29, Little Evil said:

That supposed JAL F availability via AA's program I posted about last week....maybe not true. I actually tried to book something and it seems to always throw a "We're sorry but at least one of the flights or fares you chose is no longer available." error. You then look up the flights again and it shows up again. Called in and the first agent I spoke to couldn't figure it out either. Ghost availability? Last seat issue?  My itinerary would start or end in Boston, so I'd have a short Jet Blue flight BOS to JFK. Could that be it? I tried both outbound and inbound trips on multiple days. Anyone get that error before? 

Will try calling again, but I thought I'd check in with the brain trust first before wasting time. 

I’ve always heard that for the best seats, or even “a” seat you need to book months in advance. Every time I used to look at Asiana to Bangkok from JFK I go to United airlines website and it would be nothing for 120,000 miles each way so I was watching TikTok yeah, I watch TikTok sometimes. And the TikToker said go to Asiana‘s website look what they have and you’ve got to book months in advance because there’s very few seats and probably less in economy, or they just go faster. 

I saw when I looked at flights, not to Bangkok, but to “somewhere else” they were round-trip coach tickets for 80,000 miles. So I looked even further ahead and I could get seats to all the Asian locations for about the same mileage and the miles start creeping up when you get towards the summertime.

[bgtp]

2 hours ago, slashlarue said:

I’ve always heard that for the best seats, or even “a” seat you need to book months in advance. Every time I used to look at Asiana to Bangkok from JFK I go to United airlines website and it would be nothing for 120,000 miles each way so I was watching TikTok yeah, I watch TikTok sometimes. And the TikToker said go to Asiana‘s website look what they have and you’ve got to book months in advance because there’s very few seats and probably less in economy, or they just go faster. 

I saw when I looked at flights, not to Bangkok, but to “somewhere else” they were round-trip coach tickets for 80,000 miles. So I looked even further ahead and I could get seats to all the Asian locations for about the same mileage and the miles start creeping up when you get towards the summertime.

The lowest cost for biz tickets with points is when they first become available, typically 11 months or so out, or last minute such as within the next few days. I’m at the lounge in Haneda now, next stop BKK. HND-BKK biz was 30K AA miles when I booked a while back. The trip from Florida to Japan in biz was 60K AA miles.

[Luv2Phuket]

24 minutes ago, bgtp said:

The lowest cost for biz tickets with points is when they first become available, typically 11 months or so out, or last minute such as within the next few days. I’m at the lounge in Haneda now, next stop BKK. HND-BKK biz was 30K AA miles when I booked a while back. The trip from Florida to Japan in biz was 60K AA miles.

Enjoy a nice bowl of Japanese curry for me!

#Jealous!

[Little Evil]

16 hours ago, slashlarue said:

I’ve always heard that for the best seats, or even “a” seat you need to book months in advance. Every time I used to look at Asiana to Bangkok from JFK I go to United airlines website and it would be nothing for 120,000 miles each way so I was watching TikTok yeah, I watch TikTok sometimes. And the TikToker said go to Asiana‘s website look what they have and you’ve got to book months in advance because there’s very few seats and probably less in economy, or they just go faster. 

I saw when I looked at flights, not to Bangkok, but to “somewhere else” they were round-trip coach tickets for 80,000 miles. So I looked even further ahead and I could get seats to all the Asian locations for about the same mileage and the miles start creeping up when you get towards the summertime.

Each program is different, but AA opens award availability at 331 days out, and that is often when it's easiest to book. But that is not to say you can't find seats after then. Just a little more random when things get released. 

I typically do the year out (or 331 days for AA), and if not then, check back in 6 months out. But all this kind of went out the window with covid and its subsequent crippling of travel in general for a couple years messing with award travel. Award availability doesn't seem to make much sense anymore and some airlines are just now getting back to full number of flights. 

Still have no idea what's going on here with JAL via AA. The flights still show up and I still can't book them.

[Luv2Phuket]

51 minutes ago, Little Evil said:

Still have no idea what's going on here with JAL via AA. The flights still show up and I still can't book them.
 

Check it thru Alaska or BA - it may be ghost availability.

[davidge]

On 09/05/2023 at 08:04, davidge said:

Thanks. I did a quick check and saw it’s possible. IHG won’t let you convert unless you’ve got at least 10000 points. I don’t know if there’s anything similar with Accor. I don’t use hotels a lot, but usually have 6-8 overnight stays a year for concerts and maybe one or two at Heathrow. Realistically, I’m not going to get enough points with any hotel for free nights - I stay in a few different ones depending on cost but usually Marriott, Accor or IHG as they’re the convenient ones for the concerts. I’m at 8200 with IHG but am staying in one this week. I’ve no idea how many points I’ll get for that.

Apologies for threadfucking again . 
Marriott - convert online, easy, Avios appeared almost immediately.

Accor - I’ll find out next week as I’m waiting until a stay this weekend. (Edit: just checked and you need a minimum of 4000 points so it will take me a while)

IHG - have to telephone, incompetent agent, didn’t know the rules, put me on hold 5 times, insisted BA/Avios weren’t partners, told her she was wrong, eventually she said they were. 14-21 days until points appear. FUCK IHG.

[slashlarue]

14 hours ago, bgtp said:

The lowest cost for biz tickets with points is when they first become available, typically 11 months or so out, or last minute such as within the next few days. I’m at the lounge in Haneda now, next stop BKK. HND-BKK biz was 30K AA miles when I booked a while back. The trip from Florida to Japan in biz was 60K AA miles.

So that is 90,000 for one way business class. Not bad, I just can’t give up that many miles for a larger seat. I don’t drink on the plane nor do I eat the food, (in recent years) ok maybe I have a roll with butter, and I can’t get that much sleep in those lie flat seat either. 

So let’s say as I said I could get JFK to BKK or somewhere else in SEA for 80-90 thousand. I could go twice, even if I can’t.

If I was someone who stayed 2 months at a time and only went once a year then yes BC might be the best option.  

 

[bgtp]

11 hours ago, davidge said:

Apologies for threadfucking again . 
Marriott - convert online, easy, Avios appeared almost immediately.

Accor - I’ll find out next week as I’m waiting until a stay this weekend. (Edit: just checked and you need a minimum of 4000 points so it will take me a while)

IHG - have to telephone, incompetent agent, didn’t know the rules, put me on hold 5 times, insisted BA/Avios weren’t partners, told her she was wrong, eventually she said they were. 14-21 days until points appear. FUCK IHG.

Another use for Accor is that 2000 points is worth 40 euros towards a stay at participating hotels. I believe you can also use them to pay for part of a stay, i.e. take 40 euros off your bill for every 2000 points. You may find better value in that than transferring to BA. One downside is that not all Accor properties participate in their loyalty program for redemptions.

I like IHG and it’s my main hotel program, but I use the points for free nights rather than transfer. I did credit one stay to BA versus IHG points last year because I needed to extend my mileage expiration. The points didn’t show up for over a month. So, I contacted them via the website/app and they posted about a week later,