Long Haul Business Class for under $2K (Long Post)

[Luv2Phuket]

14 hours ago, Hotlanta said:

I dont knows if I am searching wrong but I just checked AA's award flights from SFO to BKK Business, one way and also round trip.. There is like 1 date available in the next 3 months.  Is it always this bad?  Economy seems to be available for 37k miles, but anything higher class is virtually empty?  I dont want to throw money into AAdvantage if i cant travel on my desired date.

 

14 hours ago, HimBadMan said:

Yes.  This has been quite common for 2022 and now 2023..   airfares are still high and travel demand has not slowed down hence limited award availability. Also airlines fucking customers by devaluating miles during this time..     Maybe after summer high season we see a break ?   But very doubtful.    You may find one here and there but will need to search once or twice a day and have some luck.      

I have had better luck looking much farther out.

Availability might pop up at the last minute, but looking for an award flight about a month out via AA usually has very poor odds of success.

As @HimBadMan notes, award availability has been shit throughout 2022 and 2023. It has been mentioned in this thread quite often lately, but a big problem is that Cathay availability has seemingly disappeared.  Given that the OneWorld options from USA to BKK are primarily JAL and Cathay, that has severely cut into award availability.

[travelling_man]

20 hours ago, Hotlanta said:

But if I am paying cash for Business, this may be the best way?  Better than shelling out $5600.

I also posted two fares of 10k and 5k.  5k-ish seems to be the most common at the moment.

Does anyone else remember when, as the title says, we were trying to get business class for under 2k? Lol

 

[Little Evil]

On 27/05/2023 at 23:21, HimBadMan said:

This "phantom" award availability is pissing me off.   Looking for my flight back for Sept and it's beyond annoying to continue to see these show up..

Also equally annoying is the unbelievable or lack of award space on CX via AA miles..  cannot recall the last time I saw award space on CX via AA.  Definitely pre covid 

CX is just off the charts nutty at the moment. They basically fired half their staff during covid and now is in a world of staff shortage hurt now that HGK is open again. Actual paid fairs for J & F are easily 3X higher than the rest of the market due to this, so near term awards are going to be scarce to zero. But I did manage to find out in Feb 2024 last month and made some speculative bookings just on the rarity of finding it on AA. 

Unrelated and a bit off topic, but I just did a nightmare last minute trip to SJO in coach last week. Because it was last minute, no biz availability. But the legs are under 4 hours and I got a killer fare, so I felt it was doable. It was not. I was stuck next to kids on one leg and the kid next to me spills his full size bag of pretzels on my seat. No problem, but like 30 minutes later, I realize he's licking his fingers and picking up salt from my seat and putting it in his mouth. WTF?!? His parents are like 4 rows ahead of me and I'm thinking, do I call out this kid for how disgusting this is? He then spends the rest of the trip rocking back and forth in his seat the entire time. Then on the way back, I have some girl with a cat in a carrier next to me. The cat is absolutely flipping out the entire flight, and there's a kid with special needs in the row right in front of me just randomly screaming as well. Both the girl with the cat and the parents of the child in front are completely desensitized by all the noise and do very little about it. And I do nothing as well, as I'd instantly be the heartless asshole with either scenario. So I try to ignore it all and settle down to binge Narcos (never saw this series) and quickly realize I have to scrub past like half the show's violence and nudity (and context) because of the girl sitting next to me, and that's the only thing I downloaded before leaving. FML.

This was a strong reminder of why we all play this points game. 

[Luv2Phuket]

Sounds BRUTAL!  555

FWIW, I'm 110% with Stewie on this:

 

[Luv2Phuket]

I'm still focusing my spend on my AA Aviator to continue to hold Platinum status (actually made Platinum Pro this year), but my absurdly high estimated tax payments have me considering other available cards.

The Venture X keeps popping up as an option, but I'd love to see one of those Bonvoy cards come back with a great offer.

The Sapphire Reserve could be an option, but I can't get over the fact that they had a 100k bonus offer when it came out.

A Chase Ink Business Preferred could be the top option for now -- 100k UR with a $15k minimum spend in 3 months (no sweat! 555).  I just need to make certain I'm not barred from the bonus because of a card I had a few years ago for a business that no longer exists.

EDIT:

Quick follow-up: submitted the Chase Ink app and am waiting to hear back.  The number of Chase cards I currently have could be an issue.  Hopefully not.

I realized that the other business Ink card I had was opened about 5 years ago and closed more than 2 years ago, so I should not have a problem qualifying for the bonus.  The fact that they have bumped it to 100K was a big factor in pushing me to get it.  That could get my UR number back up to a decent level (adding at least 115k after spend + bonus).

EDIT 2:

Shoulda checked my business email! 555  Approved and card coming in 8 to 10 business days.

[Little Evil]

37 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

The Sapphire Reserve could be an option, but I can't get over the fact that they had a 100k bonus offer when it came out.

There have been reports of both targeted offers and short-lived promotions of the Preferred version at 80-100k in recent weeks. If you're only interested in the welcome offer and not so much the better perks of the Reserve, that might be another route if you can manage to find the higher offer. 

[jmukh]

I am just completing the signup bonus on the Ink Business Cash (90k offer). I'm tempted by the Business Preferred, but the bonus categories would get no spend for me after that, so it wouldn't be a keeper. The Business Premier doesn't have transferable points (ugh), so the Ink Business Unlimited might be next. Looks like their offer is down to 75k now instead of 90k. Also got a 15k retention offer on the Gold, so I need to remember to eat out more and restock the meat freezer.

I was also tempted by United or AA business cards, but with the ongoing devaluations I might hold off for a while unless I'm certain I want to try to get to AA status.

Perhaps IHG or Hyatt for another annual hotel night? I already have a $50 Sapphire credit, $200 Amex plat credit, Hilton $250 credit, Hilton free night, and two Marriott free nights, and $300 Capital One which could be hotels or flights, so I'm slightly hesitant to keep adding hotel nights at this point, but could probably make it work. 

[Luv2Phuket]

I've done a shitty job with free night certificates, so laying off of hotel cards, at least for a little while.

The internet/cable/phone bonus points are decent, but I need to see what I am getting with my current Chase Ink (discontinued product).  The $95 annual fee isn't bad, but it will definitely be at the front of my "firing line" when it comes up for renewal next year (unless it meets/exceeds my current Ink's benefits). 

Current Ink gets me 5X on spend at office supply stores, which is GREAT!  I buy Amazon GCs to effectively get 5X on Amazon spend (ditto with Uber) and load up on Visa/MC gift cards when they are on sale (i.e., no fee), then use them for groceries.

I'm culling a number of cards as they come up for renewal this year.  Just cut my AMEX Delta Reserve (sucks unless you fly Delta, which I do not), and I will drop my AMEX Green when it comes up for renewal in November (pointless to drop before then, because fee already paid).  My AMEX Platinum Business card made both moot.

I closed my CapOne card, so should be able to jump back into their world with the VentureX, but I prefer to wait for the VentureX Lounge to open at LAS (supposedly approved and on the way).

 

[jmukh]

6 hours ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Current Ink gets me 5X on spend at office supply stores, which is GREAT!  I buy Amazon GCs to effectively get 5X on Amazon spend (ditto with Uber) and load up on Visa/MC gift cards when they are on sale (i.e., no fee), then use them for groceries.

Ditto. Mine also sometimes has Safeway gift cards, which is right across the street, so it's an easy 5x on groceries (which I'm lazy about since the Gold already gets 4x on groceries, and I'd value the points about the same). I just bought a Lowes gift card on the Staples website for some hardware I need to grab tomorrow (the Uber gift cards are available on the Staples website as well).

I'm getting much better about preloading gift card balances into Amazon so all of my spend there is effectively 5x; I spend a ton there (especially compared to the minuscule amount I spend at Staples).

I haven't switched phone spend over yet; I had the impression that Google Fi wouldn't track since it's a Google payment. Similarly, Verizon's 10% discount goes away if I pay with a card, so FIOS is just going to have to keep hitting a bank account directly.

I did discover somewhat belatedly that both my Sapphire and Ink Business have a $10 monthly GoPuff credit for groceries, with a code for free shipping and $10 off your first 10 orders in 30 days. This is slightly annoying to use since I have to put in two orders (one on each card), but it's effectively a $30 order for ~$10, so I might as well take advantage of the credits for the rest of the year. You could justify the annual fee on *any* $99 Chase card at this point (even the branded ones, like IHG) as long as that credit's in place. On a free card like the Ink, it's nuts.

I may need to take a better look at Chase. I've been very Amex heavy the last couple of years.

[Luv2Phuket]

11 hours ago, jmukh said:

Ditto. Mine also sometimes has Safeway gift cards, which is right across the street, so it's an easy 5x on groceries (which I'm lazy about since the Gold already gets 4x on groceries, and I'd value the points about the same). I just bought a Lowes gift card on the Staples website for some hardware I need to grab tomorrow (the Uber gift cards are available on the Staples website as well).

I'm getting much better about preloading gift card balances into Amazon so all of my spend there is effectively 5x; I spend a ton there (especially compared to the minuscule amount I spend at Staples).

I haven't switched phone spend over yet; I had the impression that Google Fi wouldn't track since it's a Google payment. Similarly, Verizon's 10% discount goes away if I pay with a card, so FIOS is just going to have to keep hitting a bank account directly.

I did discover somewhat belatedly that both my Sapphire and Ink Business have a $10 monthly GoPuff credit for groceries, with a code for free shipping and $10 off your first 10 orders in 30 days. This is slightly annoying to use since I have to put in two orders (one on each card), but it's effectively a $30 order for ~$10, so I might as well take advantage of the credits for the rest of the year. You could justify the annual fee on *any* $99 Chase card at this point (even the branded ones, like IHG) as long as that credit's in place. On a free card like the Ink, it's nuts.

I may need to take a better look at Chase. I've been very Amex heavy the last couple of years.

I'll have to check out GoPuff - not familiar with it or the credit.

As to monthly phone bill, I opted to use my AMEX Biz Platinum, even though I lose the 10% Verizon discount.  The insurance that AMEX provides is excellent, so the savings by not insuring through Verizon pretty much made it a wash (and I get a few more AMEX MR each month).

[Luv2Phuket]

On 01/06/2023 at 08:38, Luv2Phuket said:

I'll have to check out GoPuff - not familiar with it or the credit.

As to monthly phone bill, I opted to use my AMEX Biz Platinum, even though I lose the 10% Verizon discount.  The insurance that AMEX provides is excellent, so the savings by not insuring through Verizon pretty much made it a wash (and I get a few more AMEX MR each month).

Looks like I will be changing my monthly phone charges to the new Chase Ink Business Preferred when it arrives.

I was checking to see the perks I will get, when I stumbled across the mobile phone protection it provides - turns out, it slightly beats the AMEX protection:
https://onemileatatime.com/guides/chase-ink-cell-phone-protection/

Deductible is higher, but coverage goes up from $800 to $1000.  Given the cost of phones these days, I think it's worht the higher deductible.

Plus, instead of 1 ANMEX MR, I will get 3 Chase UR per USD spent.

I'm hoping the card arrives before my trip in 6 days, so that I can use it for the hotel charges.

[fko]

On 30/05/2023 at 18:20, Little Evil said:

CX is just off the charts nutty at the moment. They basically fired half their staff during covid and now is in a world of staff shortage hurt now that HGK is open again. Actual paid fairs for J & F are easily 3X higher than the rest of the market due to this, so near term awards are going to be scarce to zero. But I did manage to find out in Feb 2024 last month and made some speculative bookings just on the rarity of finding it on AA. 

Unrelated and a bit off topic, but I just did a nightmare last minute trip to SJO in coach last week. Because it was last minute, no biz availability. But the legs are under 4 hours and I got a killer fare, so I felt it was doable. It was not. I was stuck next to kids on one leg and the kid next to me spills his full size bag of pretzels on my seat. No problem, but like 30 minutes later, I realize he's licking his fingers and picking up salt from my seat and putting it in his mouth. WTF?!? His parents are like 4 rows ahead of me and I'm thinking, do I call out this kid for how disgusting this is? He then spends the rest of the trip rocking back and forth in his seat the entire time. Then on the way back, I have some girl with a cat in a carrier next to me. The cat is absolutely flipping out the entire flight, and there's a kid with special needs in the row right in front of me just randomly screaming as well. Both the girl with the cat and the parents of the child in front are completely desensitized by all the noise and do very little about it. And I do nothing as well, as I'd instantly be the heartless asshole with either scenario. So I try to ignore it all and settle down to binge Narcos (never saw this series) and quickly realize I have to scrub past like half the show's violence and nudity (and context) because of the girl sitting next to me, and that's the only thing I downloaded before leaving. FML.

This was a strong reminder of why we all play this points game. 

I have been hearing about cx being expensive...I booked them from Amsterdam in business (return) for 2300 euro. The return leg was only 400 added to the price of the first leg in business (would have been 0 added if I opted for premium economy).

This was the only business option under 3k. Booked it because direct flights in economy were 1500 return at the time. Then I prefer a longer flight in decent business product.

[Luv2Phuket]

Not Asia-related, but I think I got a "miles win" today.

I am flying to upstate NY next weekend, and my flight leaves at the butt crack of dawn (6 a.m.).  To make it a little more comfortable, I checked on the cost to upgrade to first....$800....one way....ouch!  My RT ticket was only $600.

While I think I had a good chance of scoring a free upgrade (first was about 75% open), I asked about a mileage upgrade.  Got it for 15,000 miles and a $75 fee.

By my math, I think I got nearly 5 cents per mile in value, which is pretty damn good for AA miles, especially since I'm sitting on over 750,000 of them and am having trouble finding availability to Asia.

[bgtp]

I’m connecting in Stockholm now on my way home and there’s no lounge access airside, WTF! Perhaps this Scandinavian country isn’t so advanced after all and they peaked with IKEA.

[Luv2Phuket]

11 hours ago, bgtp said:

I’m connecting in Stockholm now on my way home and there’s no lounge access airside, WTF! Perhaps this Scandinavian country isn’t so advanced after all and they peaked with IKEA.

WTF, indeed!

On a related note, I just read that Priority Pass is adding a bunch of Plaza Premium lounges to their portfolio.

I'm hoping to use my Priority Pass card at the Johnny Rockets at Syracuse airport this week.  I'm hoping to have at least one friend with me, so I should get a $56 credit - told them "the burgers are on me!"  555

 

[A6-GIV]

11 hours ago, bgtp said:

I’m connecting in Stockholm now on my way home and there’s no lounge access airside, WTF! Perhaps this Scandinavian country isn’t so advanced after all and they peaked with IKEA.

They have a lounge but it comes as a build  yourself kit.

a partnership of IKEA and Lego

[Little Evil]

On 04/06/2023 at 08:36, fko said:

I have been hearing about cx being expensive...I booked them from Amsterdam in business (return) for 2300 euro. The return leg was only 400 added to the price of the first leg in business (would have been 0 added if I opted for premium economy).

This was the only business option under 3k. Booked it because direct flights in economy were 1500 return at the time. Then I prefer a longer flight in decent business product.

Thing is, they were never this expensive before. 2019 and earlier, they were market competitive for business class. But these days, my route is easily 2-3X more expensive than the nearest competitor or even their own pre-covid pricing, depending on the day of the week you look. I'm sure there are still some pocket routes that are more reasonable, but generally speaking, their rates and award availability are sh*t these days. I'm not sure what a good fare is for Amsterdam, but the relative price difference from your coach option seems like a good deal. 

I'm still hunting for an August award trip via at least 4 different programs, but very well may end up either booking a paid PE ticket and trying to upgrade or flat out buying RT J if the rates dip into the lower ends. 

[Luv2Phuket]

4 minutes ago, Little Evil said:

Thing is, they were never this expensive before. 2019 and earlier, they were market competitive for business class. But these days, my route is easily 2-3X more expensive than the nearest competitor or even their own pre-covid pricing, depending on the day of the week you look. I'm sure there are still some pocket routes that are more reasonable, but generally speaking, their rates and award availability are sh*t these days. I'm not sure what a good fare is for Amsterdam, but the relative price difference from your coach option seems like a good deal. 

I'm still hunting for an August award trip via at least 4 different programs, but very well may end up either booking a paid PE ticket and trying to upgrade or flat out buying RT J if the rates dip into the lower ends. 

Add me to the LONG list of BMs hoping Cathay turns it around....but I'm not optimistic.

I have a trip scheduled in August (4-20, but side trips to Singapore and Bangkok in the plans), so hopefully we can meet up and chat over a drink or meal.

[bgtp]

12 hours ago, bgtp said:

I’m connecting in Stockholm now on my way home and there’s no lounge access airside, WTF! Perhaps this Scandinavian country isn’t so advanced after all and they peaked with IKEA.

And my domestic connection home is from the new EWR Terminal A which United uses in addition to C and of course their lounge in the new terminal isn’t ready yet. I bitched and they gave me a $30 food voucher. So I’m chilling in a restaurant even if surrounded by the proletariat.

[Luv2Phuket]

I was listening to a frequent flyer podcast today about United's latest devaluation, and they were REALLY hyping Aeroplan.

I don't think I have ever used them in the past, but I have had a membership for years.  They are a transfer partner for many of the transferrable cc programs, and they apparently have quite a few transfer partners outside of Star Alliance.

Anybody here a big Aeroplan fan?

Stop me if I have whined about this before, but it almost bugs me that these bloggers focus so much of their time/attention on travel from the USA to Europe.  No offense to the BMs who live there, but I'm not interested....I just wanna get my fat ass back to Thailand in comfort! 555

Because they are so focused on Europe, they never give EVA's program any credit.  I'm a big fan, especially with United kicking us in the balls again.

[ThePope]

i use aeroplan almost exclusively. Im not happy if its being advertised as a good deal to all though as im sure another devaluation is coming. Aeroplan is great to fly *A partners such as Eva, ANA, and they are partnered with Etihad (although rumors that you cant book J with etihad currently and possibly ongoing). There is dynamic pricing for AirCanada which for most flights pushes a $5000 business flight to 250k points which is a horrible deal but sometimes AC has 85k longhaul flights

Booking EVA 360days out, or Etihad ~11months out when availability opens (although currently not able to due to system update/possible blocking) is necessary. about 85k for N.A. to BKK on partner airlines. Generally if an award seat is available on a *A partner aeroplan will have the cheapest price

and when EVA/ANA opens up days to weeks before departure the price is pretty good too

And aeroplan points often go on sale for about 1.7cents US per point so a lot of people are gaming the system by buying award space this way. 85k business one way N.A to BKK works out to $1445 US if you buy up the points

[jmukh]

23 hours ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Stop me if I have whined about this before, but it almost bugs me that these bloggers focus so much of their time/attention on travel from the USA to Europe.  No offense to the BMs who live there, but I'm not interested....I just wanna get my fat ass back to Thailand in comfort! 555

I will admit I found this unexpectedly useful when visiting a girl I know in Europe last month, but in general, I agree with you: all of their focus seems to be on Europe, and the joys of free luggage on all of your US flights. Similarly, on hotels, they completely miss the insane cash values that countries like Malaysia and Thailand have for the mid- to upper- end of the major chains. You'd think that with BKK being the most touristed city in the world for a couple of years, a couple of American travel hacker blogs would have noticed it by now.

Another annoying side effect of this: when every points and miles blog says that the AA card gets you free luggage, you will have to dig very far through the small print to realize that this is domestic only (unlike JetBlue), and you're still going to be charged for Medellin. This is especially problematic because with JetBlue killing most of their routes to Medellin, AA is the easiest way to get there from DC for the most of the dates I search.
 

[Luv2Phuket]

13 hours ago, ThePope said:

And aeroplan points often go on sale for about 1.7cents US per point so a lot of people are gaming the system by buying award space this way. 85k business one way N.A to BKK works out to $1445 US if you buy up the points
 

Therein lies why I asked the question - current 50% off sale, so it works out to about 1.31 cents per mile if you buy a minimum of 60,000 miles (60,000 works out to $1,050 CAD, so about $788.50).  Anything below 60,000 gets a lower discount.

With United gutting its awards, I'm thinking of buying miles to have a foothold in the program.

I could buy 80,000 (85,000 is not an option - just 80k or 90k) for $1,400 CAD or $1050.  I could then easily transfer the other 5k over to get me to the 85k required. 

That's a pretty damn good price for OW Biz class....but I do not like to speculatively buy miles.

Deal runs through June 17, so I have a a few more days to think about it.

[ThePope]

3 hours ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Therein lies why I asked the question - current 50% off sale, so it works out to about 1.31 cents per mile if you buy a minimum of 60,000 miles (60,000 works out to $1,050 CAD, so about $788.50).  Anything below 60,000 gets a lower discount.

With United gutting its awards, I'm thinking of buying miles to have a foothold in the program.

I could buy 80,000 (85,000 is not an option - just 80k or 90k) for $1,400 CAD or $1050.  I could then easily transfer the other 5k over to get me to the 85k required. 

That's a pretty damn good price for OW Biz class....but I do not like to speculatively buy miles.

Deal runs through June 17, so I have a a few more days to think about it.

 

they have additional partnerships with etihad and emirates and some other airlines

Generally the saying goes only buy miles if you have a plan for them. So if you see something you like ~360 days out buy up and grab it

Refund fee is $150cdn, or you can book the higher tier business class option which prices at 105k points and is no-fee refundable- thats the option i usually do to remain flexible as i often have 2-3 outbounds and returns booked per trip

miles dont really expire as long as you have some points movement once a year in your account, even purchasing through 'estore'

but im expecting further devaluations so only buy points if you have a flight to book

fyi points usually refund to your account almost instantly, and creditcard charges in 5 business days... all online to cancel no need to call.

And if an AC leg gets rebooked/time changed you can often rebook to any available itenerary on AC site, ive used this trick to book Home-YYZ-YVR-BKK all AC metal which usually prices 400k points as my 100k points itinerary had a small time change on AC metal

Edited June 9, 2023 by ThePope
mistook OW for oneworld not oneway

[ThePope]

here's a good example for you specifically of a short-notice flight. or searching way out like may27 2024 shows a bunch of 101k flexi on EVA with the AC connect to YVR