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English Monk in Thailand....


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Good question considering the general conversation on this board.

 

Buddhism is all about having the right intention. So a girl working in a bar to take care of her family is doing a bad job but with the right intention so good karma. Where as one that works in the bar just to feed her crack habit ignoring her responsibilities and family is amassing huge amounts of negative karma.

 

A couple of times I visited Pattaya in robes and once was walking down Soi Baukhao early afternoon and walked past a bar full of girls. They called out 'Luang Pee I go with you' to with I smiled and said back in Thai 'yes please!' Needless to say they loved it.

 

Also in my experience as a Monk and lay person in Pattaya it seems that the Thai men are the ones showing off their Amulets but never give Alms or make merit its the girls that do. I would always go down Pattaya Klang on Monk days and give the Monks food and they would give a water blessing and again it was only ever girls there. I guess they know what they are doing isn't considered right and are doing what they can to make merit to counter what they work as.

 

Karma is a bitch and the payback doesn't come in this life but is waiting for you in your next,

 

Well said!

 

I have often pointed out that the girls start off working bars for Karma whereas their brothers have oppotunities to spend time as monks to get the points. Obviously it is not always cut and dried but it goes to indicate the degree of feeling about the girls in Thailand. They are not always looked on as “dregs of society”.

 

Most of them get the benefit of the doubt from their family but all too often get looked down on by mongers.

 

I hope you can help us mongers towards the path of enlightenment with regard to the Buddhist philosophy. It should help us to understand the friendly people we travel to Thailand to visit.

 

Please keep posting.

 

Thanks

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^ Sorry an in-joke.

 

Where do monks stand on how well poor Thai citizens are served by their government and the rich elite? Do monks consider that the poor should suffer in silence or agitate for a better deal.

 

Now I know why I didn't get your question.

 

Tough question as it involves politics but again it comes back to the Karma you attained in your previous life. For the most part even the very poor Thai's are outwardly happy guess they just accept their current life is but one of many they will live.

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Now I know why I didn't get your question.

 

Tough question as it involves politics but again it comes back to the Karma you attained in your previous life. For the most part even the very poor Thai's are outwardly happy guess they just accept their current life is but one of many they will live.

 

I think I'd prefer a philosophy that offer a little more in the way of justice in this life....

 

...Though as I understand it many monks took part in the red shirt demonstrations.

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Well said!

 

I have often pointed out that the girls start off working bars for Karma whereas their brothers have oppotunities to spend time as monks to get the points. Obviously it is not always cut and dried but it goes to indicate the degree of feeling about the girls in Thailand. They are not always looked on as “dregs of society”.

 

Most of them get the benefit of the doubt from their family but all too often get looked down on by mongers.

 

I hope you can help us mongers towards the path of enlightenment with regard to the Buddhist philosophy. It should help us to understand the friendly people we travel to Thailand to visit.

 

Please keep posting.

 

Thanks

 

Remember girls can not ordain so a man will become a Monk for a period of time generally 30 days then thats it job done in his eyes. Its the girls that make the real life commitment. When a guy ordains its also to make merit for his mother.

 

I think the sad fact is BG's are generally treated so badly by their families always wanting money to taking sole responsibility for bringing their kids up because the father has f_cked off and left her alone. That's just IMO.

 

I hope you can help us mongers towards the path of enlightenment with regard to the Buddhist philosophy. It should help us to understand the friendly people we travel to Thailand to visit.

 

I'm looking for the sign to the road myself I dont know what help I can be! I also hate the thought of preaching and trying to convert people to Buddhism its a road that has to be chosen and walked alone but with the odd bit of guidance.

 

As a good starting point here are the absolute fundamentals of Buddhism. If these mean something to you then maybe Buddhism is the right path to walk.

 

 

 

 

The Four Noble Truths

 

The first sermon that the Buddha preached after his enlightenment was about the four noble truths.

 

The first noble truth is that life is frustrating and painful. In fact, if we are honest with ourselves, there are times when it is downright miserable. Things may be fine with us, at the moment, but, if we look around, we see other people in the most appalling condition, children starving, terrorism, hatred, wars, intolerance, people being tortured and we get a sort of queasy feeling whenever we think about the world situation in even the most casual way. We, ourselves, will some day grow old, get sick and eventually die. No matter how we try to avoid it, some day we are going to die. Even though we try to avoid thinking about it, there are constant reminders that it is true.

 

 

The second noble truth is that suffering has a cause. We suffer because we are constantly struggling to survive. We are constantly trying to prove our existence. We may be extremely humble and self-deprecating, but even that is an attempt to define ourselves. We are defined by our humility. The harder we struggle to establish ourselves and our relationships, the more painful our experience becomes.

 

The third noble truth is that the cause of suffering can be ended. Our struggle to survive, our effort to prove ourselves and solidify our relationships is unnecessary. We, and the world, can get along quite comfortably without all our unnecessary posturing. We could just be a simple, direct and straight-forward person. We could form a simple relationship with our world, our coffee, spouse and friend. We do this by abandoning our expectations about how we think things should be.

 

This is the fourth noble truth: the way, or path to end the cause of suffering. The central theme of this way is meditation. Meditation, here, means the practice of mindfulness/awareness, shamata/vipashyana in Sanskrit. We practice being mindful of all the things that we use to torture ourselves with. We become mindful by abandoning our expectations about the way we think things should be and, out of our mindfulness, we begin to develop awareness about the way things really are. We begin to develop the insight that things are really

quite simple, that we can handle ourselves, and our relationships, very well as soon as we stop being so manipulative and complex.

 

 

The Eightfold Path

 

The path to liberation from these miserable states of being, as taught by the Buddha, has eight points and is known as the eightfold path.

 

The first point is called right view -- the right way to view the world. Wrong view occurs when we impose our expectations onto things; expectations about how we hope things will be, or about how we are afraid things might be. Right view occurs when we see things simply, as they are. It is an open and accommodating attitude. We abandon hope and fear and take joy in a simple straight-forward approach to life.

 

 

The second point of the path is called right intention. It proceeds from right view. If we are able to abandon our expectations, our hopes and fears, we no longer need to be manipulative. We don't have to try to con situations into our preconceived notions of how they should be. We work with what is. Our intentions are pure.

 

 

The third aspect of the path is right speech. Once our intentions are pure, we no longer have to be embarrassed about our speech. Since we aren't trying to manipulate people, we don't have to be hesitant about what we say, nor do we need to try bluff our way through a conversation with any sort of phoney confidence. We say what needs to be said, very simply in a genuine way.

 

The fourth point on the path, right discipline, involves a kind of renunciation. We need to give up our tendency to complicate issues. We practice simplicity. We have a simple straight-forward relationship with our dinner, our job, our house and our family. We give up all the unnecessary and frivolous complications that we usually try to cloud our relationships with.

 

Right livelihood is the fifth step on the path. It is only natural and right that we should earn our living. Often, many of us don't particularly enjoy our jobs. We can't wait to get home from work and begrudge the amount of time that our job takes away from our enjoyment of the good life. Perhaps, we might wish we had a more glamorous job. We don't feel that our job in a factory or office is in keeping with the image we want to project. The truth is, that we should be glad of our job, whatever it is. We should form a simple relationship with it. We need to perform it properly, with attention to detail.

 

The sixth aspect of the path is right effort. Wrong effort is struggle. We often approach a spiritual discipline as though we need to conquer our evil side and promote our good side. We are locked in combat with ourselves and try to obliterate the tiniest negative tendency. Right effort doesn't involve struggle at all. When we see things as they are, we can work with them, gently and without any kind of aggression whatsoever.

 

Right mindfulness, the seventh step, involves precision and clarity. We are mindful of the tiniest details of our experience. We are mindful of the way we talk, the way we perform our jobs, our posture, our attitude toward our friends and family, every detail.

 

Right concentration, or absorption is the eighth point of the path. Usually we are absorbed in absentmindedness. Our minds are completely captivated by all sorts of entertainment and speculations. Right absorption means that we are completely absorbed in nowness, in things as they are. This can only happen if we have some sort of discipline, such as sitting meditation. We might even say that without the discipline of sitting meditation, we can't walk the eightfold path at all. Sitting meditation cuts through our absentmindedness. It provides a space or gap in our preoccupation with ourselves.

 

 

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I think I'd prefer a philosophy that offer a little more in the way of justice in this life....

 

...Though as I understand it many monks took part in the red shirt demonstrations.

 

Justice in this life come from your actions in your previous life. Living a mindful and respective life now means your next life will reap the rewards. You have to pay it forward in Buddhism!

 

I wasn't aware of Monks getting involved with the demonstration.....

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Fantastic thread.

 

Thanks for starting it. 

 

Please continue sharing your knowledge.  It must have taken a lot of courage to take that first step and ordain.  I bet everyday of it was a gem.   

 

In fact why not write your story as well.  What lead to you taking this path.  it sounds like you would have a very interesting story to tell.

 

Put me down for a purchase of the book.  Perhaps proceeds to help a deserving cause.

 

Life is suffering.  From my point of view, It was not until I shared suffering with Thai people and that I began to see and started to understand.   

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I think I'd prefer a philosophy that offer a little more in the way of justice in this life....

 

...Though as I understand it many monks took part in the red shirt demonstrations.

 

I think any decent person would prefer a world where there is justice.  The point is that there is no justice in life.  Life is full of suffering.  Even if you are not suffering yourself all you have to do is open your eyes and see that justice is sadly lacking.  

 

However I would ask Para the following:

 

Isn't justice for all, something that we should all be fighting for?  Well maybe striving for, would be a better way of putting it as the term fighting applies aggression. 

Could it not be that the acceptance of life being suffering means that we stop fighting for justice?  Take a legal system for example.  The 'ideal' of the system might be to achieve justice for all, but the reality is the system is administed by humans and is therefore prone to abuse and injustice resulting in suffering.  If we just accepted that the suffering was inevitable then surely we would be dooming ourselves to suffering?  Therefore take a bargirl for example.  If she accepts that the suffering is a normal part of life, then she is not going to strive to find another way and is therefore doomed to suffer.  Could it be argued that the doctrine which says acceptance of suffering is necessary is just not another way of controlling people and keeping them down?

 

(Note this is not intended as an argument or debate.  It is a genuine set of questions)

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Fantastic thread.

 

Thanks for starting it. 

 

Please continue sharing your knowledge.  It must have taken a lot of courage to take that first step and ordain.  I bet everyday of it was a gem.   

 

In fact why not write your story as well.  What lead to you taking this path.  it sounds like you would have a very interesting story to tell.

 

Put me down for a purchase of the book.  Perhaps proceeds to help a deserving cause.

 

Life is suffering.  From my point of view, It was not until I shared suffering with Thai people and that I began to see and started to understand.   

 

I am glad you enjoyed the thread.

 

The journey to me becoming a Monk is quite unique but writing a book would get me both arrested and banned in most countries. I've lived a very colorful life being a Monk was another chapter for me.

 

Life is full of suffering and Buddhism is the only thing that both acknowledges that and gives you guidance on how to reduce it.

 

The hardest part for me to grasp was 'non attachment'. If you attach to a pleasant experience when its gone you crave and miss it thus leading to suffering. Also holding onto a bad memory causes suffering. Learning to simply accept and attach to nothing does insulate you from 'normal' pleasures but also from suffering. Kinda hard when trying to apply that to relationships but that comes with time.

 

I have shared suffering with Thai people I was banged up for a while in Bangkok but thats another story!

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I still smell a rat!

 

I don't know as yet what the point is? maybe the irony of a monk and a mongering forum?? but there's something amiss here I think!

 

 

Bill

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I still smell a rat!

 

I don't know as yet what the point is? maybe the irony of a monk and a mongering forum?? but there's something amiss here I think!

 

 

Bill

 

Well it is in a part of the forum entitled

 

Customs, Culture, Traditional Music, Buddhism, Arts and History

 

I guess its not just a mongering forum.  There are even expat threads out there discussing the price of computers and smart phones.  Now why put those on a 'mongering forum'. 

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However I would ask Para the following:

 

Isn't justice for all, something that we should all be fighting for?  Well maybe striving for, would be a better way of putting it as the term fighting applies aggression. 

Could it not be that the acceptance of life being suffering means that we stop fighting for justice?  Take a legal system for example.  The 'ideal' of the system might be to achieve justice for all, but the reality is the system is administed by humans and is therefore prone to abuse and injustice resulting in suffering.  If we just accepted that the suffering was inevitable then surely we would be dooming ourselves to suffering?  Therefore take a bargirl for example.  If she accepts that the suffering is a normal part of life, then she is not going to strive to find another way and is therefore doomed to suffer.  Could it be argued that the doctrine which says acceptance of suffering is necessary is just not another way of controlling people and keeping them down?

 

(Note this is not intended as an argument or debate.  It is a genuine set of questions)

 

Why would I consider a constructing comment argumentative? I'm all for getting it out there and people joining in.

 

Isn't justice for all, something that we should all be fighting for? Well maybe striving for, would be a better way of putting it as the
term fighting applies aggression. Could it not be that the acceptance of life being suffering means that we stop fighting for justice?

 

We should be striving for wisdom and understanding and peace to reach Nirvana but ignoring suffering will stop true understanding as you become ignorant to the fact. 

 

Take a legal system for example.  The 'ideal' of the system might be to achieve justice for all, but the reality is the system is administed by
humans and is therefore prone to abuse and injustice resulting in suffering.

 

Agreed but thats by definition a democracy which has been abused?

 

If we just accepted that the suffering was inevitable then surely we would be dooming ourselves to suffering?

 

No not at all! To accept suffering means you acknowledge it so you can then do something about it. Like a drug addict admitting he has a problem before he has any chance of being cured.

 

Therefore take a bargirl for example.  If she accepts that the suffering is a normal part of life, then she is not going to strive to find another way and is therefore doomed to suffer.

 

Don't confuse the acceptance of suffering with Karma.

 

Could it be argued that the doctrine which says acceptance of suffering is necessary is just not another way of controlling people and keeping
them down?

 

No acceptance allows control. Its not a case of 'life is shit then you die' more like 'life is shit but I know that so will do what I can to reduce it before I die'

 

Thoughts?

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Well it is in a part of the forum entitled

 

Customs, Culture, Traditional Music, Buddhism, Arts and History

 

I guess its not just a mongering forum.  There are even expat threads out there discussing the price of computers and smart phones.  Now why put those on a 'mongering forum'. 

 

I's of general interest really, the same as this section that you have posted in!

 

I'm really not knocking you for posting! it's interesting to see where this goes?

 

 

Bill

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I still smell a rat!

 

I don't know as yet what the point is? maybe the irony of a monk and a mongering forum?? but there's something amiss here I think!

 

 

Bill

 

As always you are welcome to your opinion but let me ask you something.

 

For many years I was on steroids so know a shed load about them if I come to a mongering board and answer a steroid question is that wrong? I have been blessed with a unique life experiencing many thing that a lot will never please don't the fact I have an understanding of many things against me.

 

I was a steroid user so can answer steroid questions. I was a Monk so can answer Buddhist questions. I have lived all over the world so again can answer many questions.

 

As I say I have lived a very colorful life through choice. Others haven't.

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Thoughts?

 

Well I asked a few big questions there and the answers are short, concise, yet deep and thought provoking, So I guess I will take some time to think on your answers.  What started as a set of questions borne out of a single thought process has now given me a number of separate 'thought paths' to follow.  Each one of them will give me a fair bit to think on, reflect and research.

 

Much appreciated. 

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Thoughts?

 

Well I asked a few big questions there and the answers are short, concise, yet deep and thought provoking, So I guess I will take some time to think on your answers.  What started as a set of questions borne out of a single thought process has now given me a number of separate 'thought paths' to follow.  Each one of them will give me a fair bit to think on, reflect and research.

 

Much appreciated. 

 

 

Then I achieved what I aimed for.

 

Remember we all walk this path alone at different speeds and sometimes in odd directions but the goal always remains the same. Only you have the answers to your questions all I did was prompt you into thinking about then eventually finding them.

 

With metta

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I's of general interest really, the same as this section that you have posted in!

 

I'm really not knocking you for posting! it's interesting to see where this goes?

 

 

Bill

 

 

Bill feel free to ask questions they are always better than closed statements.

 

If you doubt my credentials I will gladly point you to other boards that I post on to show I only talk from experience. If your problem is with me personally then drop me a PM and we can discuss it rather than clog this thread up with irrelevant comments.

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Cool thread para. It is very interesting. I don't consider myself Buddhist but I do see a lot of wisdom in the Buddhist worldview and it's spiritual improvement system.

 

I also enjoy spending time at various Wats and shrines as the 'energy' there is very often very peaceful and conducive to deep thought, meditating, or just clearing ones head from the noise of everyday life. 

 

In fact I was recently going through a rough time and visited a local Wat and was 'blessed' by the monk there. I felt much better afterward and while I was spending some time sitting and thinking at the Wat I was inspired to come to the Wat every day for a month to make a small offering and spend some time praying and meditating, and also to refrain from eating meat during that month. Going to the Wat every day really helped me through that rough patch and now I still stop in on a regular basis just to get a recharge of that peace many Wats are filled with.

 

I guess what I am saying is that I respect what you have done and I can understand why someone would choose to walk that path for a while.

 

I do have a couple questions. One of the biggest problems I have with Buddhism is with the first truth. I cannot see that life is only pain and suffering. Life is also filled with joy and beauty and happiness. Both exist surely, and perhaps one cannot be had without the other there to give it contrast, but I just can't buy that all is suffering. What are your thoughts on that?

 

Second a quick question about Karma. You have said it only comes back around to you in your next life. Are you saying it won't come back to you during this life, or that it cannot? It seems to me that what you put out into the universe is going to come back around, in this life or the next, but sometimes it comes back sooner than later.

 

Third is a totally mundane question. What did you do about your visa during this year? Did the Monks set you up with a 'Monk' visa of some kind?

 

Finally what caused you to decide to start a thread like this on this board in particular? I don't share the same level of scepticism as some of my fellow BMs, but it does seem an odd place to find an ex-monk posting.

 

Regardless, thanks for the interesting thread, I'd love to hang out sometime if you are ever in Pattaya. 

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Bill feel free to ask questions they are always better than closed statements.

 

If you doubt my credentials I will gladly point you to other boards that I post on to show I only talk from experience. If your problem is with me personally then drop me a PM and we can discuss it rather than clog this thread up with irrelevant comments.

 

I have no problem with you personally Para!

 

All I say is with a good heart and a smile on my face Sir!

 

I will now leave this thread as I feel I do not want to invade it any longer!

 

 

Bill

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I am glad you like the thread but happier you found peace at a temple.

 

I do have a couple questions. One of the biggest problems I have with Buddhism is with the first truth. I cannot see that life is only pain and suffering. Life is also filled with joy and beauty and happiness. Both exist surely, and perhaps one cannot be had without the other there to give it contrast, but I just can't buy that all is suffering. What are your thoughts on that?

 

 

The first truth doesn't say life is only suffering it tell us life has suffering. Of course life has all the emotions going but acknowledgment of suffering then learning how to reduce it leads to a happier life. 

 

Second a quick question about Karma. You have said it only comes back around to you in your next life. Are you saying it won't come back to you during this life, or that it cannot? It seems to me that what you put out into the universe is going to come back around, in this life or the next, but sometimes it comes back sooner than later.

 

Depends on how much good/bad karma you have built up! Sure it can come back in this life if its deserved.

 

Third is a totally mundane question. What did you do about your visa during this year? Did the Monks set you up with a 'Monk' visa of some kind?

 

My visa 'position' is unique but most foreign Monks come over on a 1 year then once ordained apply for yearly RO visa extensions. Problem is this cant happen forever I have a friend who has been ordained for 16 years in Bangkok and has had his visa revoked so is now living in Singapore.

 

Finally what caused you to decide to start a thread like this on this board in particular? I don't share the same level of scepticism as some of my fellow BMs, but it does seem an odd place to find an ex-monk posting.

 

Simply because it had a Buddhism section in. Normally I would never bring up my past as a Monk on another mongering board as there is no interest but PA had the section and there were other Buddhist posts so I assumed some people would be interested. Same as PA has a technology section I was a IT consultant in London for many years so have a reasonable understanding so help out there as well.

 

As for the skeptics I have zero problems with them I fully know who I am.

 

Regardless, thanks for the interesting thread, I'd love to hang out sometime if you are ever in Pattaya.

 

You are welcome BTW I live in Pattaya!

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I have no problem with you personally Para!

 

All I say is with a good heart and a smile on my face Sir!

 

I will now leave this thread as I feel I do not want to invade it any longer!

 

 

Bill

 

I am happy I have not offended you.

 

Why do you feel the need to leave jump in and get dirty like the rest of us.

 

Para

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Thoughts?

 

Well I asked a few big questions there and the answers are short, concise, yet deep and thought provoking, So I guess I will take some time to think on your answers.  What started as a set of questions borne out of a single thought process has now given me a number of separate 'thought paths' to follow.  Each one of them will give me a fair bit to think on, reflect and research.

 

Much appreciated. 

Dont forget to look for a job too my friend.

A man can not live on love and Serenity alone.

The vehicle that is your body need fuel, and where you live, fuel costs... unfortunately you will not be given food just because you walk down the street early morning in any western country as far as i know.

 

Good to hear there is serious thinking going inside you Danca, but i kinda new that already.

 

And sorry to the op, if he feel i am derailing his fine thread.

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Dont forget to look for a job too my friend.

A man can not live on love and serenity alone.

The vehicle that is your body need fuel, and where you live, fuel costs... unfortunately you will not be given food just because you walk down the street early morning in any western country as far as i know.

 

Good to hear there is serious thinking going inside you Danca, but i kinda new that already.

 

And sorry to the op, if he feel i am derailing his fine thread.

 

Sounds like you know dancaholic and I'm guessing he is at a crossroads so I would of been saddened if you hadn't of posted your thoughts for him....

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I am glad you like the thread but happier you found peace at a temple.

 

I do have a couple questions. One of the biggest problems I have with Buddhism is with the first truth. I cannot see that life is only pain and suffering. Life is also filled with joy and beauty and happiness. Both exist surely, and perhaps one cannot be had without the other there to give it contrast, but I just can't buy that all is suffering. What are your thoughts on that?

 

 

The first truth doesn't say life is only suffering it tell us life has suffering. Of course life has all the emotions going but acknowledgment of suffering then learning how to reduce it leads to a happier life. 

 

Second a quick question about Karma. You have said it only comes back around to you in your next life. Are you saying it won't come back to you during this life, or that it cannot? It seems to me that what you put out into the universe is going to come back around, in this life or the next, but sometimes it comes back sooner than later.

 

Depends on how much good/bad karma you have built up! Sure it can come back in this life if its deserved.

 

Third is a totally mundane question. What did you do about your visa during this year? Did the Monks set you up with a 'Monk' visa of some kind?

 

My visa 'position' is unique but most foreign Monks come over on a 1 year then once ordained apply for yearly RO visa extensions. Problem is this cant happen forever I have a friend who has been ordained for 16 years in Bangkok and has had his visa revoked so is now living in Singapore.

 

Finally what caused you to decide to start a thread like this on this board in particular? I don't share the same level of scepticism as some of my fellow BMs, but it does seem an odd place to find an ex-monk posting.

 

Simply because it had a Buddhism section in. Normally I would never bring up my past as a Monk on another mongering board as there is no interest but PA had the section and there were other Buddhist posts so I assumed some people would be interested. Same as PA has a technology section I was a IT consultant in London for many years so have a reasonable understanding so help out there as well.

 

As for the skeptics I have zero problems with them I fully know who I am.

 

Regardless, thanks for the interesting thread, I'd love to hang out sometime if you are ever in Pattaya.

 

You are welcome BTW I live in Pattaya!

 

OK I guess maybe it is in the way the first truth gets presented then. I often hear it distilled down to 'life is suffering' and I just can't buy that.

 

Cool to hear you are in Pattaya, after I get back (this week yay!) maybe we can hang out over a meal or something. 

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OK I guess maybe it is in the way the first truth gets presented then. I often hear it distilled down to 'life is suffering' and I just can't buy that.

 

Cool to hear you are in Pattaya, after I get back (this week yay!) maybe we can hang out over a meal or something. 

 

Why not drop me a PM and we can arrange something.....

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Furry just asked this question:

 

"Second a quick question about Karma. You have said it only comes back around to you in your next life. Are you saying it won't come back to you during this life, or that it cannot? It seems to me that what you put out into the universe is going to come back around, in this life or the next, but sometimes it comes back sooner than later"

 

If I may I would like to quote the following:

 

"Kamma classified according to time at which results are produced:

a) One that ripens in the same lifetime.

b) One that ripens in the next lifetime.

c) One that ripens in successive births."

 

 "These three are bound to produce results, as a seed to sprout.  Just as a seed needs conditions and help to sprout, so do these kinds of Kamma."................. 

 

Understanding one's Destiny by K.M.M Swe Published by May-Su-Thin-Nu & Brothers Maw. 2006.

 

That is just the start of one of the chapters on Kamma.   So as Para said it can come back to you in this life. 

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