Get ready for the tears, MS soon to pull the plug on Windows 7

[Garzan]

To be clear, no one is telling anyone you ~have~ to update to a newer operating system. You could be running CP/M if that's what you really wanted to. What will happen is that all fixes, patches, and support will end, and justifiably so. Supporting legacy products is f-ing expensive, with not a lot of return on those spent resources. So, if someone discovers an exploit to turn your legacy machine into an Internet distributed attack bot, no one is going to fix that exploit. 

And with disks, I was thinking 'install' while writing about 'upgrade'. I've been burned more than once on doing an install when I was wanting to do an upgrade (senior moment) and wiping out the data on my drive. I had a conversation last week with a fellow boardmember living in Isaan who did exactly that. And of course he didn't have anything backed up. 

So, anyone chosing to upgrade (and at least in my own opinion, W10 ~is~ an upgrade from W7/XP/Vista) you should not lose data if you read the prompts carefully and make sure you are upgrading rather than installing. In any case though, WD Passport USB drives are cheap insurance. Copy off your drive, and physically unplug the USB, and your data is safe incase something triggers a series of unfortunate events. :-)

[Thaifix]

16 hours ago, ShaneFalco said:

I still miss windows 3.11

I miss my Atari even more  

On a serious note i am one of those stubborn guys who has stuck with Windows 7 for years but will certainly be changing before the date support is finally pulled. It simply makes no sense to put yourself at risk.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Thaifix

[whitespider - RIP]

I am a W7 user also but my advice would be to listen to the OP

Its a little like everyone complaining when we update the forum - we don't really want to do it but we have little choice when support is being removed.

[Garzan]

I think I'm like a number of people, I never really liked doing version upgrade/updates. But, I also believe, at least for myself, incremental upgrades/updates are a whole less painful on my tired old brain than doing end of life/support upgrades/updates. I haven't liked Microsoft's massive UI shifts, I haven't liked Gnome version changes, I haven't liked KDE version changes, I didn't like Unity when it was introduced, and I didn't like when Unity went away. I didn't like the changes, but I did them anyway* since security updates are important, and I'm going to end up having to change someday anyway, so I might as well get it over with and learn how to use the current system. 

It's more comfortable when things stay the same, but they never really do. Besides, it's good for those little grey cells to get a bit of exercise once in a while trying new things. :-)

*except for W8, I totally refused to do that one.

[Kahoy]

9 minutes ago, Garzan said:

I haven't liked Gnome version changes, I haven't liked KDE version changes, I didn't like Unity when it was introduced, and I didn't like when Unity went away.

I just stuck with Gnome. If there's not a compelling reason to change shit i don't. I always use terminal to install apps anyway and do any coding and you're pretty much forced to terminal. 

Unfortunately, I had to deal with the nightmare of supporting W8 for awhile. Every few versions MS gets it horribly wrong. Millennium, Vista, W8. I'm totally not a Windows fan and got rid of it on my own machines about 10 years ago.

[ocka]

4 hours ago, CyberPro said:

One might suggest that no one is forced to leave XP, there are just cost/risk decisions to be made. Is a known or potential security risk enough to "force" an upgrade?

I bought a new laser printer and there was no XP driver available for it.   Windows 7 was already off the market,  so no choice but 10.

 

4 hours ago, CyberPro said:

Crisp, fast, usable desktop icons. Minimal fluff slowing things down. What's there not to like (about windows 3.11) ?

No 64 bit support.  Not even any 32 bit support!  Not actually even an operating system, just an app running on DOS,  No TCP/IP stack.  The Internet?  What's that?

Anyone remember Trumpet Winsock?  (No it isn't a game they play at the White House )

[ShaneFalco]

8 hours ago, Kahoy said:

 

I'm so old I started coding on dos 2.0. Remember Leisure Suit Larry and the boss key?

 

LSL was great, spent quite a few hours on those games 

[superdaws]

On 16/01/2019 at 04:37, Garzan said:

I think I'm like a number of people, I never really liked doing version upgrade/updates. But, I also believe, at least for myself, incremental upgrades/updates are a whole less painful on my tired old brain than doing end of life/support upgrades/updates. I haven't liked Microsoft's massive UI shifts, I haven't liked Gnome version changes, I haven't liked KDE version changes, I didn't like Unity when it was introduced, and I didn't like when Unity went away. I didn't like the changes, but I did them anyway* since security updates are important, and I'm going to end up having to change someday anyway, so I might as well get it over with and learn how to use the current system. 

It's more comfortable when things stay the same, but they never really do. Besides, it's good for those little grey cells to get a bit of exercise once in a while trying new things. :-)

*except for W8, I totally refused to do that one.

But there is a huge difference between Microsoft's changes and changes on Linux.  With Linux you, or at least someone if you are not technical, can modify the code so that you get what you want and are not forced to simply take what is given to you.  I used to like windows, but there recent changes that make finding things and administering things much more difficult has driven me to absolutely hate it now.  Windows 8 was horrible, but it was obviously bad.  Windows 10 though feels worse to me because it seems like it should be good but really is just awful and most the of the things they change appear to be changed simply to either confuse or irritate people.  Why move things from where they have been for many years?  Why hide things that people use or need?  Why force me to use search for everything?  I know the answer to that one.  They want to monetize everyone's data like google has done.  Well I am done with Microsoft.  I just wish I could ditch them at work too.

[NotASexTorist]

On 15/01/2019 at 08:18, Mr Wombat said:

Yes. But we have saved shit loads along the way sticking to our 10 year old laptops.

Mine still works fine. Can I upgrade to the new windows on my old machine or do I have to bury it

 

You can still 'upgrade' for free.

[NotASexTorist]

On 16/01/2019 at 07:26, Kahoy said:

It's unlikely to work on the old hardware.

+1 for Ubuntu. I'd use a VM like Virtual Box before I'd consider emulators. Of course you'd need the original installable media. 

That's a good move. I use a mac for work but I prefer Ubuntu. If you want a system that just works and doesn't fight you in upgrades them Mac is the way to go.

I'm so old I started coding on dos 2.0. Remember Leisure Suit Larry and the boss key?

If I had to use 8.3 I'd need about 53 subdirs everywhere but I'd go mad. I deliberately make my file names descriptive otherwise I'd forget what they were for.

There's about a 99% chance the hardware won't support an upgrade to win 10.

For old hardware I'd go with Ubuntu. The only caveat would be software that you need for work like Photoshop. If you really reply on such software you should be using a mac anyway IMO.

 

 

Sorry, but your reply is completely biased and incorrect. I have a laptop purchased in Feb 2007 that is running Windows 10 Pro. This makes it twelve years old.

Helping out on technical boards, I also know of many people with ten year old devices running Windows 10.

So closer to the truth is that there is a 99% chance that the hardware will run Windows 10. In fact Windows 10 is likely to be more compatible than Ubuntu, which often takes some fiddling to install Broadcom Drivers.

 

I suggest that no one runs an upgrade install and instead uses the opportunity to fit a solid state drive to their old devices. Then to run a clean install of the operating system.

There are ways of transferring the Windows 7 activation to Windows 10.

[NotASexTorist]

On 15/01/2019 at 15:27, Garzan said:

You made me look. :-) So hardware wise, Windows install will still typically overwrite your existing drive and install a fresh copy. You ~may~ still be able to get the upgrade free, even though the free upgrade program officially expired several years ago. https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/

What I meant by not so easy hardware wise is that unless you have a spare drive to swap into your old computer to try the test to see if it will run on your old hardware, you're going to overwrite your existing install. So if it doesn't want to run when you finish, you end up being screwed, and not in a fun Pattaya way. Linux has a boot from DVD/USB option. Windows doesn't. 

 

Perfect opportunity to upgrade to a solid state drive. They are super cheap these days and make a huge difference to the performance. Pop the old HDD into an external caddy and you can transfer over relevant data at leisure.

 

There is almost no chance that Windows 10 won't install on ten year old hardware. I don't know why all of the scaremongering here.

[NotASexTorist]

On 15/01/2019 at 15:34, davidge said:

When plug is pulled I’ll dump my PC, buy my first iMac and move completely over to Apple.

Use iPad for nearly everything now anyway.

 

Fit an SSD(if you haven't already) and clean install Windows 10 to it.You'll be shocked at the improvement in performance. 

[NotASexTorist]

On 16/01/2019 at 04:29, Decrue said:

I would imagine not updating would end up causing security issues, but unfortunately you don't really seem to have an option nowadays

I just wish the win10 updates weren't so irritating

 

Install Windows 10 Pro, then you can defer the feature updates for almost as long as you like. I defer mine for three months at a minimum.

The problem is that many have Windows 10 Home and have little choice but to put up with inconvenient updates. This colours their view of the operating system.

 

Too much misinformation out there, including on this thread.

[NotASexTorist]

On 16/01/2019 at 05:13, WhiteThai said:

I'm running windows 7, if I update to 10 do I lose all my content, or does it get transferred over? 

 

I recommend fitting a solid state drive. They cost as little as 680 baht and clean installing Windows 10 to it. Then transferring your docs etc from the old hard drive to the SSD. The bonus is that your device will be much faster and you won't be likely to have any installation issues.

Never upgrade from an existing installation. That would be asking for trouble.

[NotASexTorist]

Anyone needing any help with the free upgrade, just post here with details of the device. Brand name and model etc. HDD or already moved to SSD for instance.

Edited February 1, 2019 by NotASexTorist

[Taa_Saparot]

If they continue as they say they will do and update Windows 7 to paying businesses etc.

You don't think these updates will appear elsewhere ?

Edited February 1, 2019 by Taa_Saparot

[Kahoy]

1 hour ago, NotASexTorist said:

There is almost no chance that Windows 10 won't install on ten year old hardware. I don't know why all of the scaremongering here.

Part of my job is supporting staff laptops. So far I haven't found a laptop over about 4 or 5 years old where windows will upgrade without stalling. On one occasion it waited until the installation had almost finished to tell me that the monitor wasn't compatible. I won't let staff upgrade on a machine over 4 years old now. Fortunately, most of the staff use Macs and the tech staff use Ubuntu.

The last time I saw a broadcom driver problem on Ubuntu was around the turn of the century. To each his own. Yes, I am biased against Windows but it's not a baseless choice. I have lost too many hour of my life deleting libraries and editing the damn registry, the most abominable invention in computing.

[NotASexTorist]

6 minutes ago, Kahoy said:

Part of my job is supporting staff laptops. So far I haven't found a laptop over about 4 or 5 years old where windows will upgrade without stalling. On one occasion it waited until the installation had almost finished to tell me that the monitor wasn't compatible. I won't let staff upgrade on a machine over 4 years old now. Fortunately, most of the staff use Macs and the tech staff use Ubuntu.

The last time I saw a broadcom driver problem on Ubuntu was around the turn of the century. To each his own. Yes, I am biased against Windows but it's not a baseless choice. I have lost too many hour of my life deleting libraries and editing the damn registry, the most abominable invention in computing.

 

This is why I suggest never upgrading over the top of an existing installation. Always a clean install and then likely no issues. 

Clean install to SSD is optimal.

 

Turn of the century? Really?

 

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1052403/how-can-i-fix-broadcom-driver-wifi-with-4-15-0-xx-kernel-on-ubuntu-16-04

 

That from 2018 and plenty more where that came from; https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=broadcom+ubuntu&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

Methinks that you are rather prone to hyperbole.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by NotASexTorist

[Kahoy]

1 minute ago, NotASexTorist said:

 

This is why I suggest never upgrading over the top of an existing installation. Always a clean install and then no issues and the upgrade process is flawed.

Clean install to SSD is optimal.

Turn of the century? Really?

Methinks that you are rather prone to hyperbole.

Yes, I have not seen the broadcom driver issue since the early days, Turn of the century really. 

Your advice that people should do a clean install is sound but only goes to my point about how much of a hassle upgrading is on Windows. Replacing all the software from scratch is not going to please many people for whom time is money and may not still have the original install media and license keys neatly filed away. Ubuntu NEVER has those kinds of problems. 

[NotASexTorist]

21 minutes ago, Kahoy said:

Yes, I have not seen the broadcom driver issue since the early days, Turn of the century really. 

Your advice that people should do a clean install is sound but only goes to my point about how much of a hassle upgrading is on Windows. Replacing all the software from scratch is not going to please many people for whom time is money and may not still have the original install media and license keys neatly filed away. Ubuntu NEVER has those kinds of problems. 

 

Why would you need "original media and licence keys" if you are upgrading to Windows 10?? You are so negative against Windows that your arguments are failing to make any sense.

The whole point is utilising the opportunity to upgrade from mechanical storage to solid state. Which will improve the performance considerably.

What do you think will happen if they moved to Ubuntu? Does all of their software and data magically export itself from Windows 7 to Ubuntu?

So absolutely no different from running a clean install of Windows 10.

The difference between you and I is that I am not biased against any particular OS. I have used them all. But I use common sense and intelligence is making decisions, not bias.

It will cost them nothing to migrate from Windows 7 to Windows 10. So they have the choice.They can also dual boot Windows 10 and Ubuntu. You see? Unbiased is better.

 

 

 

 

 

[Kahoy]

5 hours ago, NotASexTorist said:

Why would you need "original media and licence keys" if you are upgrading to Windows 10?? You are so negative against Windows that your arguments are failing to make any sense.

You mentioned a new install which would definitely require the original install media and license keys. Ubuntu would not require any install media or license keys.

Yes, I am biased against windows, I want all the time I have wasted waiting for stalled updates back.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Kahoy

[Garzan]

13 hours ago, Kahoy said:

You mentioned a new install which would definitely require the original install media and license keys.

To be fair, no, you wouldn't need the original install media -> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

I'm fairly certain you have 30 days to come up with a valid license key unless you want to put on an eye-patch and run up the Jolly Roger. 555 

[Kahoy]

1 hour ago, Garzan said:

To be fair, no, you wouldn't need the original install media -> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

I'm fairly certain you have 30 days to come up with a valid license key unless you want to put on an eye-patch and run up the Jolly Roger. 555 

What about the other software? By install media, I mean those old win 7 apps which were distributed on cd and need to be reinstalled,  not windows itself

Who still has their license key from Windows 7 handy? 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Kahoy

[Garzan]

31 minutes ago, Kahoy said:

What about the other software? By install media, I mean those old win 7 apps which were distributed on cd and need to be reinstalled,  not windows itself

Who still has their license key from Windows 7 handy? 

 

Okay, moving the goal posts to application software, how many linux applications come with application install media? They typically don't, you down load them from the application providers website--which happens to be the same way I get application installation files for my Windows applications. Even if there is a Windows application disk in the hardware package, for me, I down load a fresh, current copy from whatever hardware vendor. 

Now, nudging back toward the topic of Windows 7 support ending, ~my~ copy of W7 Ultimate came in a box, with a printed card showing the license key, which I immediately copied into my password keeping application database. If someone happens not to keep license keys to paid software backed up to a safe place, that's their own problem. :-) Hopefully, not keeping track of paid software keys is a mistake that only happens once. I know once was enough for me.

As I recall, at work, I'd get a Sharpie and write the license key on whatever CD or DVD the software came on. Work software needed a method that did not depend on me still working there, and a Sharpie on the disk is pretty universally accessible. The disks then went in a file cabinet in a disk case. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Garzan

[taylor1975]

On 01/02/2019 at 14:01, NotASexTorist said:

 

Install Windows 10 Pro, then you can defer the feature updates for almost as long as you like. I defer mine for three months at a minimum.

The problem is that many have Windows 10 Home and have little choice but to put up with inconvenient updates. This colours their view of the operating system.

 

Too much misinformation out there, including on this thread.

I installed a program called winaero tweaker on windows 10 pro, to stop installing and checking for updates.