10PM Update: Soccer Team still trapped in flooded cave, search suspended due to rising waters, believed still alive

[whitespider - RIP]

12 minutes ago, brutox said:

The British Cave Rescue Council (BCRC), the interviewees in the above article, has all the direct comms from the men who were the very point of the spear .. unfiltered by the layers between themselves and the Thai governor who was "in charge of the rescue".

I am dying to know the behind the scenes details of the hurdles these heroic men of action had to endure and circumvent, to get past the local customs, culture, practices, even politics and diplomacy it seems, preventing them from making this happen.

 

 

Yes that intrigues me too

There was one brief video, albeit shot from behind some foliage, where a group of official looking Thais were talking to the lead diver. he didnt look angry as such but he clearly did look very pissed off about something and was obviously arguing with them.

My money is on the officials trying to wangle it being Thai divers who finished the job although that is pure speculation on my part.

[brutox]

1 hour ago, whitespider said:

Yes that intrigues me too

There was one brief video, albeit shot from behind some foliage, where a group of official looking Thais were talking to the lead diver. he didnt look angry as such but he clearly did look very pissed off about something and was obviously arguing with them.

My money is on the officials trying to wangle it being Thai divers who finished the job although that is pure speculation on my part.

You been here awhile, whitespider, so probably unsurprised that there is an important backstory to this.

Many followers might think the epilogue was written when the last divers emerged .. as the details of the story are compiled and sorted, there is sure to be some 'ah-hah' and 'holy shit' revelations.

I rather doubt those will come out in the Thai narrative, where claims of great heroism might be misplaced, or greatly exaggerated to favor a certain cultural bias.

At the time of the rescue, we could only imagine the decision-making by the authorities directing the rescue, who have zero experience in Cave diving, and are culturally indoctrinated against taking risks and responsibility.

Living here, we see this behavior at every level of Thai society .. the Thai leader of the rescue operation would not be exempt.

So much of what motivates Thai behaviors is obscured beneath a thin veneer, through which farang have difficulty penetrating.

The article cites the unwillingness of the Thais to do anything "that is a risk" (were they f#*king kidding?) .. imagine the total abject fear in them when Thai SEAL khun Saman died .. the seriousness of thrir responsibility must have come down on them like a ton of bricks.

The whole world was watching them, and because of their lack of experience and unwillingness to accept foreign help, they could be presiding over the deaths of these beautiful little boys .. in front of the entire world.

No pressure there for a Thai, eh? .. failure and the loss of face at this level? .. incomprehensible and immeasureable by Thai society.

That might explain why no greater authority voluteered to step-up to direct the rescue .. a senior military ops guy would surely have been better suited than a local politician. 

I assume what followed was a typical response .. do nothing .. deer in the headlights .. frozen.. if the boys all die, they were beyond rescue .. you called me too late .. I do not control the rain .. their evil stateless Burmese coach did this to them .. bad karma .. the boys all had unlucky numbers.

Bottom line:  not .. my .. fault.

The article describes how the Thai officials had to be talked into taking action by farang men who know Thai behaviors .. the deal was probably, that the farang take over the operation (which the article confirms) .. if it all goes right, the local officials get the credit .. if anyone dies, it is the foreign divers faults.

Note that the Thais held absolute control over the media .. note also how the farang rescue teams said very little, even after the rescue .. seems to me that none hung around for very long after the boys were out (perhaps their choice, perhaps not).

I believe there is a backstory in that.

As you, whitespider, I want to hear the full unedited story, told without restrictions by the men who were the tip of the spear.

[whitespider - RIP]

36 minutes ago, brutox said:

As you, whitespider, I want to hear the full unedited story, told without restrictions by the men who were the tip of the spear.

I am not sure where we are with this but I would not be at all surprised if the divers, or at least the "big 3" keep quiet. I say this for two reasons.

1. Those 3 guys are widely regarded as the best in the world. They do this stuff all the time and have not gone public in the past. They are likely to protect that reputation.

2. I have experience of Cave rescue divers - a very close friend was a leading member of Wharfedale Cave Rescue 35 years ago when Wharfedale were the "top boys". Even back then they traveled the word regularly doing these things but rarely if ever spoke about it. To be frank these guys are nutcases, and from my experience quite introverted rather than secretive. I will NEVER forget Waz (his nickname) saying to me after a big job in Mexico "the job is easy until you have to pull a dead mate out", which he sadly had to do several times. I was told a few years ago that Waz was the only one to reach 50 although that is unconfirmed. He was an utter utter lunatic some of the things he did.

[brutox]

1 hour ago, whitespider said:

... To be frank these guys are nutcases ...

Huh .. really .. I am surprised.

That you mention it, I can imagine there being a heavy dose of thrill-seeking in what they do .. but, I always imagined they were pathologically obsessive about the details of what they do .. jeez, they gotta' be .. risk takers, but defying the odds against them by being more fastidious than brain surgeons operating on their own child.

The cost of even small mistakes could mean their agonizing, horrific death in an inescapable, cold, pitch black, watery grave deep within the bowels of the earth .. short of dying on the dark side of the moon, about as lonely a place as a man can die.

Ummm .. so, yeah .. okay, whitespider .. I guess that really does sound pretty mad.

I wonder how they might be portrayed in the movie/book .. "Jack Reacher" meets "One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest"?

Did any of the Cave rescue divers you knew have wives? .. children? .. uh, life insurance?

 

[whitespider - RIP]

59 minutes ago, brutox said:

Did any of the cave rescue divers you knew have wives? .. children? .. uh, life insurance?

 

It was 35+ years ago mate and even i was young back then . None were married in those days but later who knows as i was long gone from the UK. It was only much later I learned Waz was the only one to make 50.

I once watched them go into a Cave - once was enough. It was a "fun dive" (allegedly) not a rescue, I would guess it was a chasm about 12-14 inches high; it was where a stream emerged from the foot of a limestone cliff in the Dales. They assured me that once through the initial bit the Cave inside was easy and not even flooded but that one time watching was enough for me.

[forcebwithu]

The rescued children and their coach are hitting the road 3 Oct.

Wild Boars headed to Argentina for Olympic visit

CHIANG RAI: The 12 young players and their coach from the Moo Paa Academy football team in Mae Sai will leave Thailand on Oct 3 for Buenos Aires, Argentina, to attend the opening of the 2018 Summer Olympic Youth Games at the invitation of International Olympic Committee president Thomas Bach.

Accompanied by a team of Thai officials, they will stay three days at an Olympic village for athletes.

The games will be held between Oct 6-18 in Buenos Aires.

On Oct 9, the Wild Boars and their coach Ekapol Chanthawong will proceed to the United States. They will appear for interviews on NBC's Today Show and Late Night programmes in New York on Oct 11 and 12.

They will also appear for a media conference at the Thai consulate in New York before returning to Thailand on Oct 20.

The news on their scheduled overseas trip came after the 12 players of the Moo Paa Academy football team and Coach Ekapol on Sunday attended a religious ceremony at Wat Phra That Doi Wao in tambon Wiang Phang Kham in Mae Sai. The ceremony was dedicated to Sqd Ldr Saman Gunan, a former Seal member who died in the operation to rescue them from the Tham Luang Cave in Chiang Rai's Mae Sai district in June.

The ceremony was also attended by Mrs Waleeporn, wife of the late Sqd Ldr Saman.

The 12 Wild Boars and their coach were trapped by rising floodwaters in the Tham Luang Cave on June 23. They were extracted from deep inside the Cave complex in an international rescue operation that captured worldwide attention. The last members of the team were brought out of the Cave on July 10.

source: https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1549482/wild-boars-headed-to-argentina-for-olympic-visit

[xtremedude]

I feel sorry for the 13th boy who did not enter the Cave with rest of his teammates because his mother came to pick him up after practice.  At first I am sure he felt lucky that he was not lost in the Cave and even after they were found, I would think that he was glad that he was not trapped in the Cave with the prospect of a very risky rescue.  But now with the boys and their coach rescued, the 13th boy is excluded from all the fame and adoration that his teammates are receiving.  Life is truly like a box of chocolates.  You never know what you are going to get.

On a side note, the person who should never be forgotten in this remarkable story is the sole person who paid the ultimate price for the safety of the boys.  Saman Gunan, a true hero in my book.

 

 

[Mr Wombat]

18 minutes ago, xtremedude said:

I feel sorry for the 13th boy who did not enter the cave with rest of his teammates because his mother came to pick him up after practice.  At first I am sure he felt lucky that he was not lost in the cave and even after they were found, I would think that he was glad that he was not trapped in the cave with the prospect of a very risky rescue.  But now with the boys and their coach rescued, the 13th boy is excluded from all the fame and adoration that his teammates are receiving.  Life is truly like a box of chocolates.  You never know what you are going to get.

On a side note, the person who should never be forgotten in this remarkable story is the sole person who paid the ultimate price for the safety of the boys.  Saman Gunan, a true hero in my book.

 

 

That is the strangest thing I have ever read. Do you really think he was the unlucky one.

[xtremedude]

11 hours ago, Mr Wombat said:

That is the strangest thing I have ever read. Do you really think he was the unlucky one.

Based on what happened (everyone came out safe), yes I think the 13th boy who did not go into the Cave probably wishes that he had.  He is now excluded from all the worldly travels and other exciting activities that his teammates get to experience.  So yes I think he is unlucky that he is missing out.  Obviously you do not agree with my view and I would be interested to know your take on this (ie why you think he is lucky not to have gone into the cave).  

[Mr Wombat]

1 hour ago, xtremedude said:

Based on what happened (everyone came out safe), yes I think the 13th boy who did not go into the cave probably wishes that he had.  He is now excluded from all the worldly travels and other exciting activities that his teammates get to experience.  So yes I think he is unlucky that he is missing out.  Obviously you do not agree with my view and I would be interested to know your take on this (ie why you think he is lucky not to have gone into the cave).  

I cant be 100% sure but I would think those that were trapped in the Cave are going to have mental scars for the rest of their lives. I cant even imagine being stuck underground for over a week with no food, no light, thinking you are going to die.

[xtremedude]

8 hours ago, Mr Wombat said:

I cant be 100% sure but I would think those that were trapped in the cave are going to have mental scars for the rest of their lives. I cant even imagine being stuck underground for over a week with no food, no light, thinking you are going to die.

I am of the view that which does not kill you makes you stronger.

[brutox]

The word by a veteran entertainment industry friend of mine is that major Hollywood titans have been/are here fighting for story rights with divers, kids parents, others.

The foreign divers reportedly committed their story rights collectively to a small independent filmmaker.  The Thai government apparently claims rights to the kids story (allegedly to protect the vulnerable boys from opportunists -- yeah, right).  I can well imagine the kids parents have been pressured, or cajoled to sell their kids rights for a new motorcycle to someone -- government officials, or maybe a political strongman.

With fractured story rights and the remorseless greed factor by some opportunists, my friend's belief is that any film will be difficult to insure without clear chain of story title.  There might be one giant producer that might write a mongo check to all parties to consolidate the story rights.

With the threat of copyright infringement, the film might be unmade.  Except, of course, by the Thai Film Office, who know exactly what they are doing.

Between soulless Hollywood producers and Thai officials who are -- mmm .. well, Thai officials -- his belief is that the kids and their families will end up with nothing.  No different than the miners trapped in the Chilean copper mine in 2010, subject of the film The 33, who were never compensated at all for their story rights.

Checking back in a year, or so to see how this all shakes out will be interesting.

[Mr Wombat]

16 minutes ago, brutox said:

The word by a veteran entertainment industry friend of mine is that major Hollywood titans have been/are here fighting for story rights with divers, kids parents, others.

The foreign divers reportedly committed their story rights collectively to a small independent filmmaker.  The Thai government apparently claims rights to the kids story (allegedly to protect the vulnerable boys from opportunists -- yeah, right).  I can well imagine the kids parents have been pressured, or cajoled to sell their kids rights for a new motorcycle to someone -- government officials, or maybe a political strongman.

With fractured story rights and the remorseless greed factor by some opportunists, my friend's belief is that any film will be difficult to insure without clear chain of story title.  There might be one giant producer that might write a mongo check to all parties to consolidate the story rights.

With the threat of copyright infringement, the film might be unmade.  Except, of course, by the Thai Film Office, who know exactly what they are doing.

Between soulless Hollywood producers and Thai officials who are -- mmm .. well, Thai officials -- his belief is that the kids and their families will end up with nothing.  No different than the miners trapped in the Chilean copper mine in 2010, subject of the film The 33, who were never compensated at all for their story rights.

Checking back in a year, or so to see how this all shakes out will be interesting.

How interesting would a film really be. Look at titanic, they had to put a rich girl poor man love affair into it to make it interesting

A factual 1 hour documentary told from the british divers point of view would be more interesting.

[brutox]

1 hour ago, Mr Wombat said:

How interesting would a film really be. Look at titanic, they had to put a rich girl poor man love affair into it to make it interesting

A factual 1 hour documentary told from the british divers point of view would be more interesting.

Hey, Wombat .. AusABC did a great little documentary on it a month or so ago, with interviews with the Aussie divers and members of the American military rescue support unit .. if you did not view it, it is worth searching out .. as you wrote, very interesting.

This story seems to have a lot of entertainment value to me .. the whole world was watching this drama .. it drew universal interest across time zones all around the world .. I could see the creative types writing quite an inspiring docu-drama, with several engaging story tracks and plenty of nail-biting suspense.

Hope someone pulls it off .. I'd pay to see it.
 

[Mr Wombat]

11 hours ago, brutox said:

Hey, Wombat .. AusABC did a great little documentary on it a month or so ago, with interviews with the Aussie divers and members of the American military rescue support unit .. if you did not view it, it is worth searching out .. as you wrote, very interesting.

This story seems to have a lot of entertainment value to me .. the whole world was watching this drama .. it drew universal interest across time zones all around the world .. I could see the creative types writing quite an inspiring docu-drama, with several engaging story tracks and plenty of nail-biting suspense.

Hope someone pulls it off .. I'd pay to see it.
 

Great documentary.

Just an observation. Do you think the aussie vet and the anaesthetist are a gay couple. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But they seem to take holidays together and the vet has a certain way he speaks

[CJKHawaii]

Based on what happened (everyone came out safe), yes I think the 13th boy who did not go into the cave probably wishes that he had.  He is now excluded from all the worldly travels and other exciting activities that his teammates get to experience.  So yes I think he is unlucky that he is missing out.  Obviously you do not agree with my view and I would be interested to know your take on this (ie why you think he is lucky not to have gone into the cave).  

As of now I'm sure he wishes he was included because of the fame, fortune, brotherhood but hopefully one day when he is older he will realize how lucky he actually is. I think you may be looking at it as though the rescue was definitely going to be a success.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[DaffyDuck]

He would feel even luckier if everyone had died, and he were the sole survivor.

Nothing stops the other kids from inviting him along.

[Harry Brown]

7 hours ago, Mr Wombat said:

Great documentary.

Just an observation. Do you think the aussie vet and the anaesthetist are a gay couple. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But they seem to take holidays together and the vet has a certain way he speaks

 

I thought the Vet had a wife?  

[xtremedude]

7 hours ago, CJKHawaii said:

As of now I'm sure he wishes he was included because of the fame, fortune, brotherhood but hopefully one day when he is older he will realize how lucky he actually is. I think you may be looking at it as though the rescue was definitely going to be a success.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
 

Prior to the rescue, of course the 13th boy would have felt lucky that he did not go into the Cave.  But after the rescue, I am not so sure he feels the same, especially when all his teammates are now famous and they get all the perks that come with fame.

[forcebwithu]

Well deserved honor for two of the Australians involved in the Cave rescue.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1617810/2-divers-win-australian-award-for-thai-cave-rescue

Prime Minister Scott Morrison (right) stands with winners 2019 Australians of the Year: Dr Richard Harris (left) and Dr Craig Challen at the 2019 Australian of the Year Awards in Canberra on Friday. (Mick Tsikas/AAP Image via AP)

CANBERRA: Two amateur divers who cancelled their vacation plans to join what they thought was a hopeless mission to rescue 12 boys and their soccer coach from a flooded Cave in Thailand on Friday received one of Australia's most prestigious awards.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison presented Australian of the Year Award 2019 trophies to anaesthetist Richard Harris and his dive buddy Craig Challen, a retired veterinarian, at a ceremony in the national capital Canberra on the eve of Australia's national day.

"A lot's been said about this little adventure that we've had, but the bottom line for me is that there are 13 families that have still got their sons they wouldn't have if we hadn't been there as part of that group,'' Dr Challen said. "That's what floats my boat.''
...

 

[Oukiva]

Already 1-2 months since the first trailer is out,

but for those (like me) who missed it :
 

 

 

More on https://www.thecave.movie/

(Movie will be out November 28)