How many expats speak fairly fluent thai

[ChangNaam]

In 2005, I took an eight month sabbatical, or unpaid leave of absence, and studied in Chulalongkarn University's Intensive Thai Language Program:

 

http://www.chula.ac.th/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/08/Intensive-Thai-Program.pdf

 

Emphasis added on intensive.

 

It's a one year program in full, but not everyone takes it that far as there are 9 5-week programs, and you must pass the final exam to move to the next level.

 

It's very academic, and included history and culture.

 

I speak, read, and write, but my weakness has been comprehension when Thais speak very fast, which tends to happen when you have your pronouncistion, tones, and grammar in order. Also Thais tend to think I'm over formal sometimes in casual settings. It did, however, come in handy in Isaan, where nobody speaks Thai, or with new girls into the game, with virtually no English comprehension, who find themselves comfortable with you if you know that the language.

 

Unless you really want to take the language to the academic level, most expats in Pattaya don't speak Thai. They know a few words, which usually don't pronounce properly, and think they know a few phrases. Essentially, they're masturbating the language, as the girls know every the English word for each Thai word attempted. Also, do not learn from a bar girl. There are many aspects of slang that should be hear-but-don't-speak when it comes to foreigners.

 

The turning point is when your Thai is better than their English.

 

It is true that some girls who've been in Pattaya for years hate it when Westerners speak Thai. My way of dealing with that is speaking English the way I normally do, and if I say something once, and they don't understand, I'll say it in Thai the second time.

 

If you really want to learn the language properly, my advice is to learn to read and write, with much emphasis on practice writing. Know the rules, which apply to the tones and pronunciation. There are exceptions, which come by with rote learning, but relatively few with the 5,000 to 10,000 words most second language users know. Finally, focus on grammar to avoud be derogatory or the appearance of being disrespectful.

 

If you do take a course, don't expect your instructor to speak English. It's about communication, not translation.

 

I believe that if one wants to learn a language, especially an Asian language, it's both academic and full time. Upon retirement in a few years, I plan to complete either the Chulalongkarn program, or study for the P-6 exam (the language proficiency test every Thai takes after seventh grade).

 

After that, I plan to study Mandarin which unlike Thai, does not have an alphabet, but is tonal and the symbols that are challenging to codify.

 

Studying foreign language in retirement is, according to some studies, good for the brain and keeping one sharp in their senior years.

 

I usually tell this to my friends that stay there...but they all look at my crazy when they see me texting back and forth with thai girls in script.

 

Thai is a pretty cool language and it makes sense, unlike other European languages. Lots of guys wont make the effort to break their brains in to script...it only takes a good 40-50 study hours (maybe less) to start reading and writing....

 

The key is constant practice, like everyday, 2-3 hours.

 

You can only get so far with transliteration or speaking without knowing how these words are written and enunciated....

 

Dont worry about what "bar-girls" will think; a foreigner that has taken the trouble to learn the language probably does not frequent bargirls that often because he usually has a few high end hottie TGs to keep him drained...

 

"Better Passah Thai...Better Pussy" 

[Tarl]

This is utter nonsense, and you were fluent in Thai, you'd know this. Ask any linguistics professor with respect to Thai. My professor informed us that while there are many dialects throughout the regions, with proper Thai, everyone will be able to understand you and you'll be able to communicate with anyone familiar with any other dialect of Thai.

 

Most often, bargirls are speaking slang and/or in less proper manners. This is not something that needs to be studied, and hearing derogatory words, comments, phrases, etc. comes with experience and familiarity. Regardless, I have never had any need, or desire, to speak in such a manner, and this is by no means a secret code of any sort.

 

 

Again, utter nonsense. It's a dialect of the Thai Language.

Just on a young child in Isan. You have no idea. They do not speak Thai till they go to school. If you think it is nonsense cone up to my village. I will get kids 2 to 6 and you can chat to them in thai and see what happens.

 

More than happy for you to do and i will show you around

[Dr.Winston]

Just on a young child in Isan. You have no idea. They do not speak Thai till they go to school. If you think it is nonsense cone up to my village. I will get kids 2 to 6 and you can chat to them in thai and see what happens.

 

More than happy for you to do and i will show you around

You are obviously quite right that to many Central Thai is considered a second language. Having said that Ruay is correct that it is a dialect and as I said before I think it's a much better strategy to learn Standard Central Thai first and then learn the dialects if you want to.

 

For one you will have much more learning material available, second you will be more widely understood and thirdly you will have the option of not becoming victim to the snobbery that many educated Thais display to some of the minority groups and their dialects.

[Tarl]

You are obviously quite right that to many Central Thai is considered a second language. Having said that Ruay is correct that it is a dialect and as I said before I think it's a much better strategy to learn Standard Central Thai first and then learn the dialects if you want to.

 

For one you will have much more learning material available, second you will be more widely understood and thirdly you will have the option of not becoming victim to the snobbery that many educated Thais display to some of the minority groups and their dialects.

I don't disagree with learning thai first. What I say to members like Ruay is thete are good reasons to learn Isan.

 

Saying it is a dialect does not mean people can speak thai or learn thai from their parents. Is just silly to say your your son or daughter magically nows central thai words because they know Isan.

 

Personally think that is elitist crap but my lasy post on that

[Dr.Winston]

I don't disagree with learning thai first. What I say to members like Ruay is thete are good reasons to learn Isan.

 

Saying it is a dialect does not mean people can speak thai or learn thai from their parents. Is just silly to say your your son or daughter magically nows central thai words because they know Isan.

 

Personally think that is elitist crap but my lasy post on that

Perhaps what he means is that they are exposed to Central Thai via the TV and other media constantly and therefore become familiar with Central Thai even if they do not speak it?

[6853395]

I hear farangs telling western jokes to the Thais, who dont have a clue whats funny about it. 

 

This is correct.

These are two jokes, in Thai, that only a Thai would find funny.

 

Idioms, jokes, etc. in their literal translation are not funny, and vice-versa.

 

Perfect example, "Cat got your tongue?" will have no meaning in Thai.

[6853395]

Just on a young child in Isan. You have no idea. They do not speak Thai till they go to school. If you think it is nonsense cone up to my village. I will get kids 2 to 6 and you can chat to them in thai and see what happens.

 

More than happy for you to do and i will show you around

 

No disagreements on the schooling part.

 

The part I took issue with was the claim that they were "speaking Isaan, not Thai".

[sinbad5]

One perspective from a blogger:

 

"When the UK announced a couple of years back that the government was tightening up requirements of foreigners seeking settlement into the United Kingdom to speak English it was met with overwhelming approval.

 

It was greeted with views from all and sundry that of course people who expect to live in the UK should speak the language of the country. If they don’t, good riddance.

 

Yet the very same individuals who would bar people from the UK see no reason to make the slightest effort to learn Thai. Many who effectively live on retirement visas in the country almost have a badge of pride in refusing to learn the language.

 

They hide behind the supposed “difficulty” in learning Thai and brazenly expect the locals to speak the Queen’s English. Instead of just getting a pith helmet and going out in the midday sun to expound their imperialistic values, these people hide behind their keyboards spouting interminable nonsense as they bash the locals and their education system for not being able to speak their language. It’s absurd. They even refuse to ‘wai’ thinking it beneath them in some way. Many threads on Thaivisa are evidence of these attitudes.

 

There has been a requirement to learn some Thai and some Thai culture for a number of people who are living in Thailand. Most international school teachers are required to go through a ten module twenty hour course run by the Teachers’ Council that includes aspects of the Thai language and culture. This is something but actually very little. Teachers in local school may do more…or less. And what about other jobs? Why should learning Thai not be a requirement for extending any work permit?

 

People working here in all professional capacities and expecting to get work permits should be made to enroll in courses in the Thai language and culture. And not just a few hours – how about make it two hours a week for a year at least 100 hours. And if it is not done….yeh, good riddance and som nam naa. (I won’t write that in Thai as so few will understand it).

 

Pensioners expecting to enjoy retirement here should be made to study Thai language and culture as part of the deal not just have to show money in the bank. Call it a way of paying tax if you like. It would be for the benefit of all. They would learn something about the country and might even make more Thai friends.

 

Some people of course already make efforts in the Thai language – these people will not be inconvenienced just helped in having courses more easily available. A whole army of Thai teachers would benefit from increased employment opportunities. Win – win.

 

Even the language requirements of people seeking Permanent Residence needs to be included. At the moment though the paperwork and requirements for PR are extensive, the language requirements are not. In fact, apart from a few questions that can be circumvented there is virtually no requirement to speak Thai at all. Thais should get on the front foot in promoting their language and culture and not let westerners browbeat them over the ability to use English

 

And it is not just speaking. All seekers of work permits, retirees from all nations and those trying to get PR should be made to learn written Thai. It is only like ABC for goodness sake, and most people who set their mind to it can learn to a good standard within a year or two.

 

How many foreigners can read and write Thai? – if not a rarity it is still far too few. Sure, you don’t expect tourists to know but people who live here should all learn. Just attending courses might be enough at first perhaps with an incentive for those who pass exams. Good students could have their pictures taken in the papers with their teachers pointing at them.

 

And for the retirees it will give them something to do in the day rather than just sit at home or on a bar stool moaning about the country that has given them a welcoming home in their twilight years. Learning Thai and culture may even open their hearts and minds to a more understanding and less imperialistic attitude towards Thailand."

 

http://www.inspirepattaya.com/lifestyle/two-faced-language-views-make-people-living-thailand-learn-thai/

[Tarl]

You are obviously quite right that to many Central Thai is considered a second language. Having said that Ruay is correct that it is a dialect and as I said before I think it's a much better strategy to learn Standard Central Thai first and then learn the dialects if you want to.

 

For one you will have much more learning material available, second you will be more widely understood and thirdly you will have the option of not becoming victim to the snobbery that many educated Thais display to some of the minority groups and their dialects.

Sorry didn't want to post on isan v thai anymore but was chatting to the girl tpday and a few villagers. Seems it is a dialect but is it a Thai or Lao dialect?

 

Definitely last comment. Apologies thought some may be interested in looking at that.

[Dr.Winston]

Sorry didn't want to post on isan v thai anymore but was chatting to the girl tpday and a few villagers. Seems it is a dialect but is it a Thai or Lao dialect?

 

Definitely last comment. Apologies thought some may be interested in looking at that.

I'd say it's a Thai dialect, if only because they are in Thailand although it does contain many elements of the Laos language......which is very similar too and obviously from the same origins as Thai, even down to the script.

[Tarl]

I'd say it's a Thai dialect, if only because they are in Thailand although it does contain many elements of the Laos language......which is very similar too and obviously from the same origins as Thai, even down to the script.

Strangely I thought the same but they don't have a script and their tones even on thai words are often different. It appears it is actually a Lao dialect. Who knew.

[Dr.Winston]

Strangely I thought the same but they don't have a script and their tones even on thai words are often different. It appears it is actually a Lao dialect. Who knew.

I've seen plenty of Isaan girls using Thai script but never any using Laos script.

 

Tbh, I can't see any reason why Isaan dialect should have it's own script? Whether you see it as Thai, heavily influenced by Laos or the other way around seems to be to a bit of a pointless question as the overriding factor IMO is that they live in Thailand.

 

Perhaps for your own satisfaction you could Google the origins of the Laos language. If it derives from Thai (Certainly the same roots) then you might even think of the Laos language itself being an offshoot of Thai (I really do not know)

[Goolabert]

It's been mentioned a few times that Isaan is a dialect but it seems that it is assumed to be a dialect of Thai.

 

Isaan is a dialect of Lao, not Thai. There is no written Isaan because while they may speak Lao, they learn to read and write only in Thai.

[Tarl]

I've seen plenty of Isaan girls using Thai script but never any using Laos script.

 

Tbh, I can't see any reason why Isaan dialect should have it's own script? Whether you see it as Thai, heavily influenced by Laos or the other way around seems to be to a bit of a pointless question as the overriding factor IMO is that they live in Thailand.

 

Perhaps for your own satisfaction you could Google the origins of the Laos language. If it derives from Thai (Certainly the same roots) then you might even think of the Laos language itself being an offshoot of Thai (I really do not know)

Yes they write isan using thai script they learn at school.

 

I have just been googling it. Is interesting. Isan and Lao don't come from the same root as Thai. Thks.

[Tarl]

It's been mentioned a few times that Isaan is a dialect but it seems that it is assumed to be a dialect of Thai.

 

Isaan is a dialect of Lao, not Thai. There is no written Isaan because while they may speak Lao, they learn to read and write only in Thai.

Yeah I never realised that. Made the assumption myself.

[Dr.Winston]

It's been mentioned a few times that Isaan is a dialect but it seems that it is assumed to be a dialect of Thai.

 

Isaan is a dialect of Lao, not Thai. There is no written Isaan because while they may speak Lao, they learn to read and write only in Thai.

That's interesting and makes sense, however "In Thailand, the Isan language is officially classified as a dialect of the Thai language." so there do appear to be different 'levels' of classification. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isan_language

[slick67]

Well, they say a language is nothing more than a dialect with an army behind it.

 

Central Thai is nothing more than just another dialect. It became the national language because that's where all the political, economic and military power is.

 

Isan used to be written with the Lao script, just like several other local dialects had their own script.

This changed with the formation of Thailand as a modern state, when all other scripts were banned and only Thai was taught in schools.

[Dr.Winston]

Well, they say a language is nothing more than a dialect with an army behind it.

 

Central Thai is nothing more than just another dialect. It became the national language because that's where all the political, economic and military power is.

 

Isan used to be written with the Lao script, just like several other local dialects had their own script.

This changed with the formation of Thailand as a modern state, when all other scripts were banned and only Thai was taught in schools.

Sure, but the the way it is, is the way it is!

[Tarl]

Sure, but the the way it is, is the way it is!

Agree regardless what wiki says it is a Lao dialect rooted from the same base language.

 

Interesting talking to older villagers who renark on how more and more thai words ate becoming part of their Isan language.

 

Big change they didn't like last 20 years or so is this generation using paw and mae for father and mother instead of epaw and emae.

[Dr.Winston]

Agree regardless what wiki says it is a Lao dialect rooted from the same base language.

 

Interesting talking to older villagers who renark on how more and more thai words ate becoming part of their Isan language.

 

Big change they didn't like last 20 years or so is this generation using paw and mae for father and mother instead of epaw and emae.

The are so many dialects even within the Isaan dialect. It appears that it's a Laos dialect in origin but it's also true to say that it is an official Thai dialect.

 

The question is, how will you play it as regards learning? Learn Isaan, ignoring Central Thai or go with the flow and learn Central Thai and then branch out into Isaan if you want to? I know how I would/did play it although learning Isaan is never something I've really tried to do, just that I happened to pick quite a bit of it up by living there and the fact that it has so many commonalities with Thai.

[Tarl]

The are so many dialects even within the Isaan dialect. It appears that it's a Laos dialect in origin but it's also true to say that it is an official Thai dialect.

 

The question is, how will you play it as regards learning? Learn Isaan, ignoring Central Thai or go with the flow and learn Central Thai and then branch out into Isaan if you want to? I know how I would/did play it although learning Isaan is never something I've really tried to do, just that I happened to pick quite a bit of it up by living there and the fact that it has so many commonalities with Thai.

Yeah it hasn't much to do with the OP. Just an interesting subject that morphed from the OP.

[bgtp]

The are so many dialects even within the Isaan dialect. It appears that it's a Laos dialect in origin but it's also true to say that it is an official Thai dialect.

 

The question is, how will you play it as regards learning? Learn Isaan, ignoring Central Thai or go with the flow and learn Central Thai and then branch out into Isaan if you want to? I know how I would/did play it although learning Isaan is never something I've really tried to do, just that I happened to pick quite a bit of it up by living there and the fact that it has so many commonalities with Thai.

 

Yeah, I'm glad I learned central Thai as I've been able to use it anywhere I've been in the country. Even worked with the lovely Lao ladies working in those rustic Isaan entertainment establishments. If I were living in an area where a dialect was more commonly spoken, then I would try to pick that up, too. But, I'll likely never be an expat. I'm just a frequent visitor who likes to 'get off the beaten path' every now and then, so central Thai works perfectly.

[Dr.Winston]

Yeah, I'm glad I learned central Thai as I've been able to use it anywhere I've been in the country. Even worked with the lovely Lao ladies working in those rustic Isaan entertainment establishments. If I were living in an area where a dialect was more commonly spoken, then I would try to pick that up, too. But, I'll likely never be an expat. I'm just a frequent visitor who likes to 'get off the beaten path' every now and then, so central Thai works perfectly.

And as a bonus, if you speak Central Thai they'll all think that you're 'posh' (-:

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

Agree regardless what wiki says it is a Lao dialect rooted from the same base language.

 

Interesting talking to older villagers who renark on how more and more thai words ate becoming part of their Isan language.

 

Big change they didn't like last 20 years or so is this generation using paw and mae for father and mother instead of epaw and emae.

Great example mate. My missus doesn't want our son to copy my neighbor's (step) children. The neighbor is a falang mate and his wife's kids spend the week in the village (near Nong Khai) and the weekends in our hi-so estate in Udon. The kids use 'eepaw, eemae, eeyai'...and my missus absolutely won't let our lad copy them. Yes things are changing. 

[Dr.Winston]

Great example mate. My missus doesn't want our son to copy my neighbor's (step) children. The neighbor is a falang mate and his wife's kids spend the week in the village (near Nong Khai) and the weekends in our hi-so estate in Udon. The kids use 'eepaw, eemae, eeyai'...and my missus absolutely won't let our lad copy them. Yes things are changing.

Yes, there's definitely a lot of snobbery about the Isaan language in Thai society.

 

It's just like the guys who learn a bit of Isaan and use it with bar girls; they get a positive result then maybe try to use it on an immigration officer when they want to extend their visa in Bangkok or Pattaya and it just falls flat, maybe even causes offence.