How many expats speak fairly fluent thai

[Tarl]

This is utter nonsense, and you were fluent in Thai, you'd know this. Ask any linguistics professor with respect to Thai. My professor informed us that while there are many dialects throughout the regions, with proper Thai, everyone will be able to understand you and you'll be able to communicate with anyone familiar with any other dialect of Thai.

Most often, bargirls are speaking slang and/or in less proper manners. This is not something that needs to be studied, and hearing derogatory words, comments, phrases, etc. comes with experience and familiarity. Regardless, I have never had any need, or desire, to speak in such a manner, and this is by no means a secret code of any sort.

I am not talking about them understanding me I am talking about understanding them when they are talking in a social situation. They switch to Thai to talk to me but they don't talk amongst themselves in Thai.

 

Also you ignored the fact young children in Isan do not speak Thai till they learn it in school.

 

Can I ask have you ever travelled to Isan or is it some place you just learnt about in a school from others?

[6853395]

Lao is a separate language, with many similarities to Thai, and relatively easy for most Thais to grasp. Some ladies may speak Lao, or speak rapidly, around foreigners to be more cryptic.

 

I don't agree that's it's necessary to speak Isaan, and to the contrary, speaking politely and in a formal manner is akin to gentlemanly behavior.

[Tarl]

I've lived in Isaan axoupke of times before. Believe me, if your Thai is good enough then Isaan is just a small step away. Learn a few of the key differences and you notice that there are actually more similarities. Even the script is very similar. I'd say that good Thai could translate to functional understanding of the Isaan dialect. I was in Laos last month and could get the gist of most of the Laos being spoke around me.

So yes they are different but then again, not so much.

Could be mate. I am struggling with the transition myself. Laos I find even more difficult. Lot of Bangkokians come to conferences where I am and I speak to them a lot, majority have told me they don't understand what the locals are talking about.

[6853395]

Can I ask have you ever travelled to Isan or is it some place you just learnt about in a school from others?

Yes, I have traveled to Isaan for a few days for a volleyball tournament, and during my time and travels, no one spoke English, and there were no other foreigners.

 

Speaking proper Thai, every one understood me perfectly fine, and I was able to communicate with anyone. Everyone spoke Thai when they were speaking to me because I was speaking proper Thai to them.

[Tarl]

Yes, I have traveled to Isaan for a few days for a volleyball tournament, and during my time and travels, no one spoke English, and there were no other foreigners.

Speaking proper Thai, every one understood me perfectly fine, and I was able to communicate with anyone. Everyone spoke Thai when they were speaking to me because I was speaking proper Thai to them.

Would have been a cool thing to do. Did you understand the locals chatting amongst themselves?

[Dr.Winston]

Could be mate. I am struggling with the transition myself. Laos I find even more difficult. Lot of Bangkokians come to conferences where I am and I speak to them a lot, majority have told me they don't understand what the locals are talking about.

It's funny that you say that. I've had it before when I was with somebody from Central Thailand and a Northern Thai asked if the other Thai understood Northern dialect...I understood the question, the Central Thai person didn't. Now that doesn't mean my Thai was better than hers, what I think it meant is that my ears are more 'flexible' when it comes to tones. A true Thai is more likely to not understand a word spoken with a 'wrong' or different tone whereas as a Westerner I'm used to not placing too much importance on them.

 

In all honesty though I would say that if you wanted to learn Isaan it might be more beneficial to learn Central Thai to a good level and then learn the differences between that and Isaan. That way you can talk to officials without insulting them and still know what is going on in Isaan.

[6853395]

Would have been a cool thing to do. Did you understand the locals chatting amongst themselves?

I'm in the of responding to another regarding that, but I did not take up Thai studies to hear what people are saying, overhearing, or easedropping.

 

I mentioned above intially that during my studies, and even today, it has always been a weakness of mine to understand Thais when they're speaking fast. Because I speak well, oftentimes Thais speak very fast in return, before I ask them to please speak a little slower. Also, the exercises where we were tested on Thais speaking and then answering questions wasn't a strong point for me, but it does improve over time.

 

Conversationally, Thai ladies speak not slowly to me, but certainly slower than they do with friends and in normal conversation. However, when a Thai lady is pissed off at me, she'll then speak very fast. Getting about 50℅ usually gives me the context.

 

A few years ago at my Pattaya hotel, I was speaking at the front desk. A Thai woman, wife of one of the guests, overheard but had her back to me at the time. Based upon the conversation, she could tell I was a guest at the hotel, and thought to herself that she didn't think Thais stayed there. She turned around, and saw it was me, a foreigner, and she told her husband she thought I was a Thai, so I have received a lot of feedback about my proper speaking, tones, and grammar.

 

So, unless I'm paying extremely close attention, I don't follow the conversations of others.

[just hanging]

a successful person, in business, in deals, in life, in fun, in girls and so on will make everything lean towards them being successful at whatever they are after.    Here a big part of being successful with the girls, and Thais in general, other than money is speaking their language.   I get so many girls that would otherwise be unavailable to me, can we can speak and joke in their language, and there are no misunderstanding.   Hard for me to believe that someone wants to live here, or comes all the time without making a serious attempt at learning the language.

[6853395]

Also you ignored the fact young children in Isan do not speak Thai till they learn it in school.

It's a dialect, not another language. The Thai words they know are the same Thai words in the language. There's not an Isaan word for ถ้วย (cup), for example. When I speak to Thai kids, they understand me, and when they speak, toddlers use words, and older kids speak sentences.

 

While it's true they're parents and family may be speaking the Isaan dialect, mainstream words are spelled the same way.

 

As noted above, Lao has a different script, but it's a different language. A dialect does not have a separate script, and no, the teachers don't say, "you've been speaking Isaan up to now, now you're going to learn Thai".

 

I think the thread is going off topic with respect to learning, knowing, and/or using Thai as a Pattaya expat.

 

My input and advice in this thread is that studying, learning, and using proper Thai is fine, Isaan is a dialect, but regardless of the dialect, proper Thai may be communicated with anyone.

 

Advanced users will eventually pick up slang, Isaan dialects, etc. over time through every day experiences. Isaan is not a subject to undertake formally, or even informally.

[Dr.Winston]

a successful person, in business, in deals, in life, in fun, in girls and so on will make everything lean towards them being successful at whatever they are after. Here a big part of being successful with the girls, and Thais in general, other than money is speaking their language. I get so many girls that would otherwise be unavailable to me, can we can speak and joke in their language, and there are no misunderstanding. Hard for me to believe that someone wants to live here, or comes all the time without making a serious attempt at learning the language.

If you ask them what they would think about a foreigner going to live in their country who cannot be bothered to learn the language you can be pretty sure what type of response you would get. Yet somehow they are good at missing the fact that that is what they themselves have chosen to do.

[6853395]

and joke in their language

I love telling jokes, or joking in Thai. I have a couple of originals that are only funny if said as a Westerner.

 

I'll share sometime.

[6853395]

I'll just add that in my opinion, learning the Thai Language is not easy with regards to just picking it up. It's not Spanish, it's tonal, has a alphabet, classes of consonants, numerous rules with respect to grammar.

 

Reading is far more easier than writing. And while practicing speaking is important, the most crucial feature is self independent study. Attending classes without doing the homework in between will not be sufficient.

 

In my view, I believe with respect to allocating study, it's 20℅ speaking, 30℅ reading, and 50℅ writing.

 

The advice I've always received from the advanced foreign students has been to practice, practice, practice writing. I make sure I can spell every word I speak. It's the only way for me to pronounce it properly.

 

Also, if a Thai uses an Isaan dialect for a word, I'll ask how it's spelled, then say it, in which then I get the thumbs up.

 

I refer to using Roman characters to learn Thai as PBS - the Phonetic Bullshit System.

 

Unless you're using international Phonetics, which is a pain, there's just many unique consonants, c, and sounds to use English.

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

I agree that learning Thai is the way to go. Thai is of course understood throughout the Kingdom - including Issan. That said, if you live in Issan it is helpful to know some Issan too. For example my golf caddy at Ubonratdam in Khon Khaen recently said to me (what sounded like): "bpai poodea lod', I didn't understand, she then repeated in Thai "bpai condeeo loi', and then in English "I go alone".

[Dr.Winston]

I agree that learning Thai is the way to go. Thai is of course understood throughout the Kingdom - including Issan. That said, if you live in Issan it is helpful to know some Issan too. For example my golf caddy at Ubonratdam in Khon Khaen recently said to me (what sounded like): "bpai poodea lod', I didn't understand, she then repeated in Thai "bpai condeeo loi', and then in English "I go alone".

That example you gave would also be understood in the Thai language even if not typical usage, Khon คน and Phu ผู้ both mean 'person' in Thai. Another example of how a sound grounding in Thai will take you a long way towards learning Isaan dialect.

[just hanging]

If you ask them what they would think about a foreigner going to live in their country who cannot be bothered to learn the language you can be pretty sure what type of response you would get. Yet somehow they are good at missing the fact that that is what they themselves have chosen to do.

 

in america I had many legal Latinos in my construction businesses that did not speak english, I tried to force them to speak it, telling them how much better their life would be when they didn't have to live in a Latino owned building, go to a Latino owned restaurant or store and so on.   In Hollywood high school, they would teach english for 1 dollar a semester, which I offered to pay      Almost impossible to get them to go and my Spanish left a lot to be desired.  I then told them I would take 1 dollar an hour off their hourly pay, every month till the started free school.   One guy let it go down 8 dollars an hour before he finally went and got his hourly pay back to normal.   After learning english, and practicing all day on the job they got proficient and every single on of them told me how life was much better for them and they got respect from english speakers when they did not before.  One of the methods I used to get them to speak english, was to tell them if I ever moved to another country, I would immediately try to learn their language, I moved here and did.  One of the smartest things I ever did

 

I am sure the guys that dont learn it, get very upset when someone living in their country expects them to learn their language rather than the countries language.  Just sayin

[just hanging]

I love telling jokes, or joking in Thai. I have a couple of originals that are only funny if said as a Westerner.

 

I'll share sometime.

 

I hear farangs telling western jokes to the Thais, who dont have a clue whats funny about it.  They have their own things they think are funny and you gotta joke about what they think is funny or it just doesn't work.  many of the girls that know I can speak in thai, when a farang is telling them the story of his life, and they have no clue what he is saying, roll their eyes at me like, help meeeeeeeeee

[Dr.Winston]

in america I had many legal Latinos in my construction businesses that did not speak english, I tried to force them to speak it, telling them how much better their life would be when they didn't have to live in a Latino owned building, go to a Latino owned restaurant or store and so on. In Hollywood high school, they would teach english for 1 dollar a semester, which I offered to pay Almost impossible to get them to go and my Spanish left a lot to be desired. I then told them I would take 1 dollar an hour off their hourly pay, every month till the started free school. One guy let it go down 8 dollars an hour before he finally went and got his hourly pay back to normal. After learning english, and practicing all day on the job they got proficient and every single on of them told me how life was much better for them and they got respect from english speakers when they did not before. One of the methods I used to get them to speak english, was to tell them if I ever moved to another country, I would immediately try to learn their language, I moved here and did. One of the smartest things I ever did

 

I am sure the guys that dont learn it, get very upset when someone living in their country expects them to learn their language rather than the countries language. Just sayin

It really is choosing to be ignorant to not try to learn the language of a country you have chosen to live in. What you get out is closely related to what you put in in terms of effort.

 

I can understand some older people deciding that it's getting a bit late in the day although I don't actually agree with that way of thinking.

 

I'm so happy that I decided to learn Thai after my second visit in 1988 because I have had literally decades of reaping the benefits.

[Tarl]

I'm in the of responding to another regarding that, but I did not take up Thai studies to hear what people are saying, overhearing, or easedropping.

I mentioned above intially that during my studies, and even today, it has always been a weakness of mine to understand Thais when they're speaking fast. Because I speak well, oftentimes Thais speak very fast in return, before I ask them to please speak a little slower. Also, the exercises where we were tested on Thais speaking and then answering questions wasn't a strong point for me, but it does improve over time.

Conversationally, Thai ladies speak not slowly to me, but certainly slower than they do with friends and in normal conversation. However, when a Thai lady is pissed off at me, she'll then speak very fast. Getting about 50℅ usually gives me the context.

A few years ago at my Pattaya hotel, I was speaking at the front desk. A Thai woman, wife of one of the guests, overheard but had her back to me at the time. Based upon the conversation, she could tell I was a guest at the hotel, and thought to herself that she didn't think Thais stayed there. She turned around, and saw it was me, a foreigner, and she told her husband she thought I was a Thai, so I have received a lot of feedback about my proper speaking, tones, and grammar.

So, unless I'm paying extremely close attention, I don't follow the conversations of others.

I am probably in the orher group that lkes to understand what is going on around them especially at family gathetings and dinners and social events at the lcal wat etc. Majority of social village events the men sit with the men and the ladies with the ladies. They will certainly respond in Thai if you speak to them but they do not speak Thai amongst themselves. I prefer to try and join in to their conversations but as you say many westerners don't care to do so.

[just hanging]

It really is choosing to be ignorant to not try to learn the language of a country you have chosen to live in. What you get out is closely related to what you put in in terms of effort.

 

I can understand some older people deciding that it's getting a bit late in the day although I don't actually agree with that way of thinking.

 

I'm so happy that I decided to learn Thai after my second visit in 1988 because I have had literally decades of reaping the benefits.

 

I started learning at 60 and I am not a school person at all

[Tarl]

I agree that learning Thai is the way to go. Thai is of course understood throughout the Kingdom - including Issan. That said, if you live in Issan it is helpful to know some Issan too. For example my golf caddy at Ubonratdam in Khon Khaen recently said to me (what sounded like): "bpai poodea lod', I didn't understand, she then repeated in Thai "bpai condeeo loi', and then in English "I go alone".

Agree mate although if you have decided to live in Isan and raise a family then there are a lot of reasons to learn Isan first then Thai as Isan people do. Is interesting to listen to them talk and put together differences such as I is not Phom but Koy, You is not khun but Jao, jao mak beer bhor is the isan verson of khun chawp beer mai and my favourites I learnt quickly were mai pen rai is bhor phen eyang and sabai dee mai is sombai dee bhor where I am.

[Tarl]

I started learning at 60 and I am not a school person at all

You are modest though, your Thai is excellent. No doubt probably wasn't easy.

[6853395]

I am probably in the orher group that lkes to understand what is going on around them especially at family gathetings and dinners and social events at the lcal wat etc. Majority of social village events the men sit with the men and the ladies with the ladies. They will certainly respond in Thai if you speak to them but they do not speak Thai amongst themselves. I prefer to try and join in to their conversations but as you say many westerners don't care to do so.

^

 

That I can understand and interact with. That's group discussion you're involved with. They're communicating with you in conjunction with the group.

[just hanging]

You are modest though, your Thai is excellent. No doubt probably wasn't easy.

 

I never speak english with a thai, but I can express myself 80% and understand 60%.      I excel in bar-girl, restaurant, directions talk, and weak in other stuff

 

again, speaking thai gets me the hotties many times.  Let a few of the boys I have been out with tell you, they are younger and better shape then me but I get them becasue of thai, and have helped many get some that would not go but speaking thai won them over.

 

When you are old like me, you need every trick you can get to get the hotties.

[td5855]

It really is choosing to be ignorant to not try to learn the language of a country you have chosen to live in. What you get out is closely related to what you put in in terms of effort.

 

I can understand some older people deciding that it's getting a bit late in the day although I don't actually agree with that way of thinking.

 

I'm so happy that I decided to learn Thai after my second visit in 1988 because I have had literally decades of reaping the benefits.

It is not only countries you live in?  

It can also apply to countries where you go to work or the people you work with.  I where in the Merchant Navy from 1977 to 1991 when I went into the offshore game (Oil&Gas) during those years in the Merchant would spend anything from 4 to 7 months on a ship.  The crew where all foreign.  One lot from Hong Kong spoke Cantonese, learnt simple phrases that applied to work, food and polite greetings.  With Filipinos being polite, had a memorable result??  

 

Whilst in Port Harcourt, Nigeria.  

Taxi driver tried to rob me when I tried to pay him, result?  Punch up at the bottom of the gangway, a bunch of dockers then went to set about me also?  

But, a few Filipino night watch men came running down the gangway with their cargo knifes/machetes drawn, after some little stabs on arms and legs the Nigerians all retreated.  I talked with the bosun on why his countrymen had come to my aid??  

He replied "You speak polite, say thank you and good morning to Filipinos, many officers not polite same as you"

 

After that that I always wanted to know how to say, good morning, how are you, thank you, excuse me, I am sorry in the language of the country or the people I worked with.  It has saved me from misunderstandings many times.

It is laziness bordering on arrogance if people do not try to learn the language of where they live.......  Rant over :-) 

[Dr.Winston]

It is not only countries you live in?

It can also apply to countries where you go to work or the people you work with. I where in the Merchant Navy from 1977 to 1991 when I went into the offshore game (Oil&Gas) during those years in the Merchant would spend anything from 4 to 7 months on a ship. The crew where all foreign. One lot from Hong Kong spoke Cantonese, learnt simple phrases that applied to work, food and polite greetings. With Filipinos being polite, had a memorable result??

 

Whilst in Port Harcourt, Nigeria.

Taxi driver tried to rob me when I tried to pay him, result? Punch up at the bottom of the gangway, a bunch of dockers then went to set about me also?

But, a few Filipino night watch men came running down the gangway with their cargo knifes/machetes drawn, after some little stabs on arms and legs the Nigerians all retreated. I talked with the bosun on why his countrymen had come to my aid??

He replied "You speak polite, say thank you and good morning to Filipinos, many officers not polite same as you"

 

After that that I always wanted to know how to say, good morning, how are you, thank you, excuse me, I am sorry in the language of the country or the people I worked with. It has saved me from misunderstandings many times.

It is laziness bordering on arrogance if people do not try to learn the language of where they live....... Rant over :-)

Yeah, learning some of their language was a sign of respect which was reciprocated by them.