How many expats speak fairly fluent thai

[just hanging]

Yes, there's definitely a lot of snobbery about the Isaan language in Thai society.

 

It's just like the guys who learn a bit of Isaan and use it with bar girls; they get a positive result then maybe try to use it on an immigration officer when they want to extend their visa in Bangkok or Pattaya and it just falls flat, maybe even causes offence.

 

when a girl asks if I can speak Isaan, I just say   sow wow

[Dr.Winston]

when a girl asks if I can speak Isaan, I just say sow wow

Try that at immigration! (-:

[just hanging]

Try that at immigration! (-:

 

I do, to all the farangs bitching about a long line......endears me to the immigration officers

[Dr.Winston]

And as a bonus, if you speak Central Thai they'll all think that you're 'posh' (-:

It's strange but I think more Farang's know "Sow Wow" than "Hup Paak", must be the company we keep!

[Tarl]

when a girl asks if I can speak Isaan, I just say   sow wow

Strangely I hear bpak sia used a lot. Had never heard it used it Patts.

 

Nice one for you to try is koy mak jao or if you are really sweet talking her khit haught jao hak jao heng

[just hanging]

Strangely I hear bpak sia used a lot. Had never heard it used it Patts.

 

Nice one for you to try is koy mak jao or if you are really sweet talking her khit haught jao hak jao heng

translation for us dummies?

[Encora]

Well, they say a language is nothing more than a dialect with an army behind it.

 

Central Thai is nothing more than just another dialect. It became the national language because that's where all the political, economic and military power is.

 

Isan used to be written with the Lao script, just like several other local dialects had their own script.

This changed with the formation of Thailand as a modern state, when all other scripts were banned and only Thai was taught in schools.

I first came across this thread last night, and was astounded by some of the opinions expressed. I wanted to respond straight away, but realised that I needed to think rather then shoot from the hip, driven by my impulses.

 

This morning, I reread the whole thread twice. I tried to reply by using multiple quotes, but they don't work very well over different pages.

 

This is my take.

 

Slick appears to be the first contributor who seems to understand the underlying issue.

 

Ruay claims to have studied history during his "Tenure" (???) at Chula, but doesn't show any understanding of history in his naive comments "Isan is a dialect of Thai"  "No need to learn it"

 

Ruay appears not interested at all in understanding what the people around him are talking about, but only in knowing that other people understand what he is trying to say himself. A fairly one-way communication, I'd say.

 

Tarl does show an interest to learn it, to understand what the people in the village around him are talking about.

 

 

IMHO the issue this is about is history, cultural imperialism and elitism.

 

Lao(s)  -(the S at the end was a French construct, adopted by the rest of the world, but alien to Lao people) -

was a much larger country then it is now, until the early 1890's. It included most or almost all of what is now called Isan. The descendants of the people living now in Isan are essentially largely ethnic Lao.

 

At that time, the French colonial powers had occupied Vietnam, moved into Cambodia and started to move into Laos, intending to take over the entire country. The Thai, who had for many years considered Laos as their sphere of influence, got alarmed at that, and threathened war to defend this sphere of influence.

 

It is important to understand that until the Europeans moved into SE Asia, there were no strict drawn borders, but territories were seen as spheres of influence, or fiefdoms. (This issue recently came to the fore with the dispute about the temple complex on the Cabodian border, which was defined by Maps drawn by the French. Until they arrived, borders were not so clearly defined)

 

The French had not anticipated any resistance to their landgrab, and started to realise that they may have over reached themselves. So they got to the negotiating table, and after some bargaining, made a deal with the Thai. The deal was that all of Laos on the East side of the Mekong, plus an area that now comprises of the Lao province of Sayabouli, would be French territory, while the land on the West and South of the Mekong would become Thai property. So what was Lao before was carved up and divided between France and Thailand.

 

Of course, no one asked the people who lived in the old Lao state about what they thought about this deal, all of a sudden the entire population of Isan were told they were now Thai citizens, and eventually expected to assimilate, learn Thai language and pledge allegiance to the Thai throne. Until that moment their language was Lao language, somewhat similar but distinctly different to the Thai language.

 

Note, I said Lao Language, maybe with an regional intonation, but basically the same Lao language they spoke in Vientiane of Savannakhet. Not a great amount of people at that time were literate, but i understand that those who were used Lao script.

 

Over the years, the Thai "colonial Authorities" started to bring more and more pressure to get the original Lao people in Isan to assimilate, but that proved a hard task (Great Britain, with their Welsh, Irish and Scottish population may remember similar issues.)

 

The Thai government or Thai academic authorities defining Isan language as a Thai dialect is simply an oppressive concept, trying to suppress Lao culture in the region.

 

There is a long history around the world showing examples how the winners in any conflict between nations will re-write history, to negate the historic reality of the conquered. The native Americans can probably tell you a bit about that..

 

The point I am trying to make is that Isan people have as much right to consider their language, culture and history as valid, and worth of preserving, as the Central Thai have to their culture. One is not anymore valid then the other.

 

If a falang has decided to go and live in Isan, and have an Isan family, he will be well served to learn the local language.

 

The elitist attitude of the central Thai often shows when they treat Isan people, or anyone speaking their language, as second class citizens, on TV in Soaps they are often portrayed as "country bumpkins", Hillbillies. A bit like the English used to think about the Irish, or the Dutch about the Flemish.

 

Some of the Central Thai "chicken" maybe coming home to roost. Isan people form probably the largest proportion of Thai citizens now. the political conflict of the past ten years or so has brought some of this out.

 

For the record, I studied Thai in a BKK language school for three months, then moved to Lao where I learned Lao language with the help of a private tutor for a year or so. 8 years ago, I came to live in Thailand, at that time my written and spoken Lao was much better then my Thai . I since have taken Thai lessons to remedy that, although am still not fluent.

 

For Language students, an interesting book to read is Asger Mollerup's "Thai Isan Lao Phrasebook"

[just hanging]

I first came across this thread last night, and was astounded by some of the opinions expressed. I wanted to respond straight away, but realised that I needed to think rather then shoot from the hip, driven by my impulses.

 

This morning, I reread the whole thread twice. I tried to reply by using multiple quotes, but they don't work very well over different pages.

 

This is my take.

 

Slick appears to be the first contributor who seems to understand the underlying issue.

 

Ruay claims to have studied history during his "Tenure" (???) at Chula, but doesn't show any understanding of history in his naive comments "Isan is a dialect of Thai"  "No need to learn it"

 

Ruay appears not interested at all in understanding what the people around him are talking about, but only in knowing that other people understand what he is trying to say himself. A fairly one-way communication, I'd say.

 

Tarl does show an interest to learn it, to understand what the people in the village around him are talking about.

 

 

IMHO the issue this is about is history, cultural imperialism and elitism.

 

Lao(s)  -(the S at the end was a French construct, adopted by the rest of the world, but alien to Lao people) -

was a much larger country then it is now, until the early 1890's. It included most or almost all of what is now called Isan. The descendants of the people living now in Isan are essentially largely ethnic Lao.

 

At that time, the French colonial powers had occupied Vietnam, moved into Cambodia and started to move into Laos, intending to take over the entire country. The Thai, who had for many years considered Laos as their sphere of influence, got alarmed at that, and threathened war to defend this sphere of influence.

 

It is important to understand that until the Europeans moved into SE Asia, there were no strict drawn borders, but territories were seen as spheres of influence, or fiefdoms. (This issue recently came to the fore with the dispute about the temple complex on the Cabodian border, which was defined by Maps drawn by the French. Until they arrived, borders were not so clearly defined)

 

The French had not anticipated any resistance to their landgrab, and started to realise that they may have over reached themselves. So they got to the negotiating table, and after some bargaining, made a deal with the Thai. The deal was that all of Laos on the East side of the Mekong, plus an area that now comprises of the Lao province of Sayabouli, would be French territory, while the land on the West and South of the Mekong would become Thai property. So what was Lao before was carved up and divided between France and Thailand.

 

Of course, no one asked the people who lived in the old Lao state about what they thought about this deal, all of a sudden the entire population of Isan were told they were now Thai citizens, and eventually expected to assimilate, learn Thai language and pledge allegiance to the Thai throne. Until that moment their language was Lao language, somewhat similar but distinctly different to the Thai language.

 

Note, I said Lao Language, maybe with an regional intonation, but basically the same Lao language they spoke in Vientiane of Savannakhet. Not a great amount of people at that time were literate, but i understand that those who were used Lao script.

 

Over the years, the Thai "colonial Authorities" started to bring more and more pressure to get the original Lao people in Isan to assimilate, but that proved a hard task (Great Britain, with their Welsh, Irish and Scottish population may remember similar issues.)

 

The Thai government or Thai academic authorities defining Isan language as a Thai dialect is simply an oppressive concept, trying to suppress Lao culture in the region.

 

There is a long history around the world showing examples how the winners in any conflict between nations will re-write history, to negate the historic reality of the conquered. The native Americans can probably tell you a bit about that..

 

The point I am trying to make is that Isan people have as much right to consider their language, culture and history as valid, and worth of preserving, as the Central Thai have to their culture. One is not anymore valid then the other.

 

If a falang has decided to go and live in Isan, and have an Isan family, he will be well served to learn the local language.

 

The elitist attitude of the central Thai often shows when they treat Isan people, or anyone speaking their language, as second class citizens, on TV in Soaps they are often portrayed as "country bumpkins", Hillbillies. A bit like the English used to think about the Irish, or the Dutch about the Flemish.

 

Some of the Central Thai "chicken" maybe coming home to roost. Isan people form probably the largest proportion of Thai citizens now. the political conflict of the past ten years or so has brought some of this out.

 

For the record, I studied Thai in a BKK language school for three months, then moved to Lao where I learned Lao language with the help of a private tutor for a year or so. 8 years ago, I came to live in Thailand, at that time my written and spoken Lao was much better then my Thai . I since have taken Thai lessons to remedy that, although am still not fluent.

 

For Language students, an interesting book to read is Asger Mollerup's "Thai Isan Lao Phrasebook"

 

I rarely read long posts all the way through, just skim them, but this was very interesting.  Thanks.  My thai teacher did some of this with me explaining how several sets of languages were made into one, that why some of the stuff looked strange to me.  Great post

[Dr.Winston]

I first came across this thread last night, and was astounded by some of the opinions expressed. I wanted to respond straight away, but realised that I needed to think rather then shoot from the hip, driven by my impulses.

 

This morning, I reread the whole thread twice. I tried to reply by using multiple quotes, but they don't work very well over different pages.

 

This is my take.

 

Slick appears to be the first contributor who seems to understand the underlying issue.

 

Ruay claims to have studied history during his "Tenure" (???) at Chula, but doesn't show any understanding of history in his naive comments "Isan is a dialect of Thai" "No need to learn it"

 

Ruay appears not interested at all in understanding what the people around him are talking about, but only in knowing that other people understand what he is trying to say himself. A fairly one-way communication, I'd say.

 

Tarl does show an interest to learn it, to understand what the people in the village around him are talking about.

 

 

IMHO the issue this is about is history, cultural imperialism and elitism.

 

Lao(s) -(the S at the end was a French construct, adopted by the rest of the world, but alien to Lao people) -

was a much larger country then it is now, until the early 1890's. It included most or almost all of what is now called Isan. The descendants of the people living now in Isan are essentially largely ethnic Lao.

 

At that time, the French colonial powers had occupied Vietnam, moved into Cambodia and started to move into Laos, intending to take over the entire country. The Thai, who had for many years considered Laos as their sphere of influence, got alarmed at that, and threathened war to defend this sphere of influence.

 

It is important to understand that until the Europeans moved into SE Asia, there were no strict drawn borders, but territories were seen as spheres of influence, or fiefdoms. (This issue recently came to the fore with the dispute about the temple complex on the Cabodian border, which was defined by Maps drawn by the French. Until they arrived, borders were not so clearly defined)

 

The French had not anticipated any resistance to their landgrab, and started to realise that they may have over reached themselves. So they got to the negotiating table, and after some bargaining, made a deal with the Thai. The deal was that all of Laos on the East side of the Mekong, plus an area that now comprises of the Lao province of Sayabouli, would be French territory, while the land on the West and South of the Mekong would become Thai property. So what was Lao before was carved up and divided between France and Thailand.

 

Of course, no one asked the people who lived in the old Lao state about what they thought about this deal, all of a sudden the entire population of Isan were told they were now Thai citizens, and eventually expected to assimilate, learn Thai language and pledge allegiance to the Thai throne. Until that moment their language was Lao language, somewhat similar but distinctly different to the Thai language.

 

Note, I said Lao Language, maybe with an regional intonation, but basically the same Lao language they spoke in Vientiane of Savannakhet. Not a great amount of people at that time were literate, but i understand that those who were used Lao script.

 

Over the years, the Thai "colonial Authorities" started to bring more and more pressure to get the original Lao people in Isan to assimilate, but that proved a hard task (Great Britain, with their Welsh, Irish and Scottish population may remember similar issues.)

 

The Thai government or Thai academic authorities defining Isan language as a Thai dialect is simply an oppressive concept, trying to suppress Lao culture in the region.

 

There is a long history around the world showing examples how the winners in any conflict between nations will re-write history, to negate the historic reality of the conquered. The native Americans can probably tell you a bit about that..

 

The point I am trying to make is that Isan people have as much right to consider their language, culture and history as valid, and worth of preserving, as the Central Thai have to their culture. One is not anymore valid then the other.

 

If a falang has decided to go and live in Isan, and have an Isan family, he will be well served to learn the local language.

 

The elitist attitude of the central Thai often shows when they treat Isan people, or anyone speaking their language, as second class citizens, on TV in Soaps they are often portrayed as "country bumpkins", Hillbillies. A bit like the English used to think about the Irish, or the Dutch about the Flemish.

 

Some of the Central Thai "chicken" maybe coming home to roost. Isan people form probably the largest proportion of Thai citizens now. the political conflict of the past ten years or so has brought some of this out.

 

For the record, I studied Thai in a BKK language school for three months, then moved to Lao where I learned Lao language with the help of a private tutor for a year or so. 8 years ago, I came to live in Thailand, at that time my written and spoken Lao was much better then my Thai . I since have taken Thai lessons to remedy that, although am still not fluent.

 

For Language students, an interesting book to read is Asger Mollerup's "Thai Isan Lao Phrasebook"

It's great that you've clarified the history of how the Isaan language and people came to be though I do think you've been a bit harsh on some people who's intent with their advice to learn Central Thai first was most likely based upon practicalities rather than any attempt to denigrate the people and/or language of Isaan.

[Goolabert]

Ruay's advice was not that you should learn Central Thai first. His advice was that No One should Ever learn Isaan. Bit of a difference.

[6853395]

I do think you've been a bit harsh on some people who's intent with their advice to learn Central Thai first was most likely based upon practicalities rather than any attempt to denigrate the people and/or language of Isaan.

 

Notwithstanding the uncalled for personal attacks, I also noticed how the respondent took selective quotes from my detailed write-ups, disregarding the salient points of support, and took them out of context.

 

As for the history and origin of how the language was derived, that subject matter, even though I didn't address it, was extensively covered at Chula's Intensive Thai Language Program for Foreigners (the word tenure was uncalled for, and anyone may review the nature of this program and its curriculum).  While is it under the umbrella of the Faculty of Arts, it is priced expensive in comparison to University courses, and they have been open that it is a form of revenue to the University, and intended for foreigners.   I took the class from May through December in 2005, about a eleven years ago, and course has been modified in various ways since.  At the time I took the course, it was 2/3 Japanese students, as many Japanese corporations required those working at the Thailand-based offices at the time complete the program, others were well-educated Japanese women, more progressive, having a Desire to relocate to Thailand, where having strong language skills was crucial to their career objectives.  The other 1/3 was United Kingdom, Australia, American, Chinese, and German (usually 1-2 of each as there were three groups consisting of approximately an enrollment of just 25 students at the time.  From my experience in this course, I would say it's the most academically-based course with a lot discipline.  Even though it was revenue source for the University, they very firm about not letting student progress to the next level with a score under 70% on the final exam.  This was for two reasons:  1) They wanted to uphold their reputation as a challenging program, and 2) Those who lagged behind would put a drag on the other students.  By Level 3 of 9, part of the final exam was to give a presentation on a subject of your choice.

 

While I've read the comments regarding the derivation, history, and origin, I don't dispute any of that, but this is more of an academic matter regarding the history,

 

As a practical, and pragmatic matter, it is of my opinion that Central Thai is all that is necessary, and most appropriate for a foreigner to use in any location.

[Dr.Winston]

Notwithstanding the uncalled for personal attacks, I also noticed how the respondent took selective quotes from my detailed write-ups, disregarding the salient points of support, and took them out of context.

 

As for the history and origin of how the language was derived, that subject matter, even though I didn't address it, was extensively covered at Chula's Intensive Thai Language Program for Foreigners (the word tenure was uncalled for, and anyone may review the nature of this program and its curriculum). While is it under the umbrella of the Faculty of Arts, it is priced expensive in comparison to University courses, and they have been open that it is a form of revenue to the University, and intended for foreigners. I took the class from May through December in 2005, about a eleven years ago, and course has been modified in various ways since. At the time I took the course, it was 2/3 Japanese students, as many Japanese corporations required those working at the Thailand-based offices at the time complete the program, others were well-educated Japanese women, more progressive, having a desire to relocate to Thailand, where having strong language skills was crucial to their career objectives. The other 1/3 was United Kingdom, Australia, American, Chinese, and German (usually 1-2 of each as there were three groups consisting of approximately an enrollment of just 25 students at the time. From my experience in this course, I would say it's the most academically-based course with a lot discipline. Even though it was revenue source for the University, they very firm about not letting student progress to the next level with a score under 70% on the final exam. This was for two reasons: 1) They wanted to uphold their reputation as a challenging program, and 2) Those who lagged behind would put a drag on the other students. By Level 3 of 9, part of the final exam was to give a presentation on a subject of your choice.

 

While I've read the comments regarding the derivation, history, and origin, I don't dispute any of that, but this is more of an academic matter regarding the history,

 

As a practical, and pragmatic matter, it is of my opinion that Central Thai is all that is necessary, and most appropriate for a foreigner to use in any location.

I agree with most of what you say, at least within the context of learning Thai. You can get by just about anywhere in Thailand by speaking Central Thai.

 

However I think your comments about their being no need for anybody to learn Isaan were a bit strongly worded and open to misinterpretation. Personally I think it's great to learn Isaan, especially if you live there but I would study Central Thai first just because there is so much more learning material available, it's not a huge jump from Thai to Isaan and other practicalities we've already discussed.

 

Anyway, I've learned plenty I never knew about the origins of the Isaan language and people (something I'd never taken the time to research).

 

The truth is that it's mainly Laos in origin but it is also correct to call it a Thai dialect, just a matter of how broadly you want to look at it. If you take it one step further then they both have their origins in the Tai language.

[Micky2]

In preparation for my retirement to Thailand I am learning the language. I'm curious as to how many on here speak conversational thai and how long it took to achieve that level

Depends on where you are going to be, and what your needs are.

 

Some ex-pats speak quite fluent Thai, myself among them. Most have, or had a need to be.

 

Working up country years ago, where I was at, few people spoke any English, and those who did spoke very little. I spent five weeks doing a sort of immersion Thai course, where we lived with Thai families, and lessons were conducted entirely in Thai. At the end of that I was familiar with the sounds that made up the language, and could read and write the letters of the alphabet, but still only knew a few words. It took several more months to become "tuned in" but once I did the language started to come quite quickly. Among those I know, my experience was typical. I no longer write and read very little, because I have no real need to, but in general conversation I'm fine.

 

A few have some proficiency because they have an interest, but unless they use Thai quite a bit in everyday life they seldom develop much fluency. A guy I knew had majored in Thai at university in the UK. He was reasonably competent at reading, enough to translate documents, and could write a little, but his spoken Thai was nothing flash.

 

Then there are many who have lived and worked in Thailand for many years, who have little to no Thai language ability. There are those in high positions, who have bilingual lackeys to take care of things requiring Thai language skills. Then there are retirees, off-shore workers and the like, based in places such as Pattaya or Phuket, for whom there is no real need. to speak much Thai, if any.

[misteregg]

As others have said, even the roughest of Issan bar girls speaks polite Bangkok Thai on the phone to a stranger or in certain social situations.

They just speak Issan dialect amongst their own.

BTE, best advice as ever is learn to read Thai. It really speeds you along.

[sinbad5]

It's an interesting discussion Encora has introduced on the historical geography side, but I had always understood from what I read that Thai control over Lao territory was much more a claim of sovereignty (control / rule) than merely 'sphere of influence' in the centuries before French Indochina.

[Encora]

I don't dispute the good advice that a starting point for most foreigners should be to learn standard Thai first.

 

The reason why I strongly reacted about the dismissal of Isan language as "merely a Thai dialect with no importance at all" has to to with the politics of cultural imperialism.

 

I referred to the Irish, Welsh, Scots and Native Americans.

 

But I lived part if my life in New Zealand, and am very familiar with the issue of a dominant power using its dominance to try and kill off any vestiges of remaining culture in minority groups. In th NZ example, that is the indigenous Maori population of New Zealand. In Australia, similar practices were used to try and obliterate Aboriginal culture. I am sure that other BM can come up with other examples where this was done by a dominant alien invader to a minority or subservient culture.

 

In NZ, Maori people were encouraged to move from there original rural communities to move to the big city and provide cheap labour to the growing and developing industry. In that process, they became alienated from their tribal roots. Their culture had a strong emphasis on wider family conections, that didn't fit in the single family home structure of Urban New Zealand. They simply served as cheap labour, and whenever the economy tanked, they were the first to loose their jobs. Some similarity with Isan, I think.

 

The education system forced the children to speak English, and penalised them for speaking Maori Language in the playground.

Cultural traditions were mocked, and Maori people pressured to assimilate, "we are all New Zealanders".

 

This is just a nutshell description of what happened in NZ, books have been written in more details about the issue.

 

In the early '70s, a movement emerged to reverse this trend, and it was found that the language, which was seen as the central element in the preservation of the indigenous culture, had almost been obliterated.

 

I believe that the policy of assimilation, and oppression if indigenous culture was a deliberate one, to ensconce the power of the dominant culture. As in Thailand /Isan, the new dominant culture was an invader, who tried to put their stamp on their conquered possession.

 

For that reason, i think it is important that we understand the historical background of what happened here in Thailand, and recognise the cultural rights of subcultures within this country, without dismissing them as "irrelevant" .

 

Probably at least 80 % (maybe closer to 90%) of our "service providers" in this town are Isan. I suggest that we respect them for who they are, which includes their cultural roots and identity.

 

For myself, while relating to the girls, I frequently lapse into Lao/Issan language, and invariably get met with great joy, when they recognise that I know their language and respect their culture. i think their popular music is far more vibrant then the Thai variant, and their food is fantastic.

 

The common Central Thai habit of looking down on Issan people as "second rate citizens, inferior" is totally unjustified and wrong..

 

End of rant.

[bgtp]

Thanks for taking the time to post Encora. I recall reading a book (a fictional story set in Lao) where the author mentions that the Mekong used to be the 'heart' of Lao, similar to the Mississippi River in the USA, until the French and Thai turned it into a border and the folks on one side of the river suddenly became 'Thai'. As you say, 'the winners write the history'. So, I imagine a lot of what you describe won't necessarily be in the Ministry of Education's curriculum and taught by Thai educators to their students.

 

Dr. Winston mentions the Tai Language. I had a chance to meet some Tai/Dai people when I visited Yunnan province in China and could hear the similarities with Thai. Not sure if it was close enough to Thai to communicate since I myself didn't speak Thai very well at the time. 

 

Good thread with good advice and info. Good luck to the OP on his retirement in Thailand and learning Thai!

 

 

[Skalliwag]

As others have said, even the roughest of Issan bar girls speaks polite Bangkok Thai on the phone to a stranger or in certain social situations.

They just speak Issan dialect amongst their own.BTE, best advice as ever is learn to read Thai. It really speeds you along.

She may speak Polite BKK Thai but the person on the other end will know exactly where she's from.

Like me trying to do a Brummy accent.

[Skalliwag]

Had a wonderful happy. Ew year last night with a a shitload of Thais.

Some were speaking Thai,others Laos.

One girl just over for the night from Vancouver speaking Laos with wifey.

They were both happy that they could speak there own dialect.

[bgtp]

Had a wonderful happy. Ew year last night with a a shitload of Thais.

Some were speaking Thai,others Laos.

One girl just over for the night from Vancouver speaking Laos with wifey.

They were both happy that they could speak there own dialect.

 

I went to a Thai restaurant here in Florida last night. The kitchen manager was relaxing in the dining area close to me with two hot friends, or maybe they were her daughters. Wish I could have understood what they were saying, but they were all speaking Spanish ... lol.

[misteregg]

She may speak Polite BKK Thai but the person on the other end will know exactly where she's from.

Like me trying to do a Brummy accent.

What yaw sayin like?

[Cheesecake]

My wife only speaks Central Thai, but obviously every other Thai she knows here in Denmark is from Isaan. She does sometimes feel a little left out as she only understand maybe 2/3 words the others speak, when they are not speaking directly to her. I can definitely see a need to learn Isaan language, if you spend time in Isaan, but if you live in Pattaya where everyone can speak Central Thai, what is the use? Except to eavesdrop on BGs.

[Dr.Winston]

My wife only speaks Central Thai, but obviously every other Thai she knows here in Denmark is from Isaan. She does sometimes feel a little left out as she only understand maybe 2/3 words the others speak, when they are not speaking directly to her. I can definitely see a need to learn Isaan language, if you spend time in Isaan, but if you live in Pattaya where everyone can speak Central Thai, what is the use? Except to eavesdrop on BGs.

Eavesdropping on bar girls lol? I think anybody with that objective in mind should prepare to be disappointed!

[Skalliwag]

What yaw sayin like?

Got a buddy,Brummy that lives in Pattaya.

Another one is a Geordie.When they get together it might be the funniest thing I've ever seen and heard.

Couple of absolute characters.

[Tarl]

I don't dispute the good advice that a starting point for most foreigners should be to learn standard Thai first.

The reason why I strongly reacted about the dismissal of Isan language as "merely a Thai dialect with no importance at all" has to to with the politics of cultural imperialism.

I referred to the Irish, Welsh, Scots and Native Americans.

But I lived part if my life in New Zealand, and am very familiar with the issue of a dominant power using its dominance to try and kill off any vestiges of remaining culture in minority groups. In th NZ example, that is the indigenous Maori population of New Zealand. In Australia, similar practices were used to try and obliterate Aboriginal culture. I am sure that other BM can come up with other examples where this was done by a dominant alien invader to a minority or subservient culture.

In NZ, Maori people were encouraged to move from there original rural communities to move to the big city and provide cheap labour to the growing and developing industry. In that process, they became alienated from their tribal roots. Their culture had a strong emphasis on wider family conections, that didn't fit in the single family home structure of Urban New Zealand. They simply served as cheap labour, and whenever the economy tanked, they were the first to loose their jobs. Some similarity with Isan, I think.

The education system forced the children to speak English, and penalised them for speaking Maori Language in the playground.

Cultural traditions were mocked, and Maori people pressured to assimilate, "we are all New Zealanders".

This is just a nutshell description of what happened in NZ, books have been written in more details about the issue.

In the early '70s, a movement emerged to reverse this trend, and it was found that the language, which was seen as the central element in the preservation of the indigenous culture, had almost been obliterated.

I believe that the policy of assimilation, and oppression if indigenous culture was a deliberate one, to ensconce the power of the dominant culture. As in Thailand /Isan, the new dominant culture was an invader, who tried to put their stamp on their conquered possession.

For that reason, i think it is important that we understand the historical background of what happened here in Thailand, and recognise the cultural rights of subcultures within this country, without dismissing them as "irrelevant" .

Probably at least 80 % (maybe closer to 90%) of our "service providers" in this town are Isan. I suggest that we respect them for who they are, which includes their cultural roots and identity.

For myself, while relating to the girls, I frequently lapse into Lao/Issan language, and invariably get met with great joy, when they recognise that I know their language and respect their culture. i think their popular music is far more vibrant then the Thai variant, and their food is fantastic.

The common Central Thai habit of looking down on Issan people as "second rate citizens, inferior" is totally unjustified and wrong..

End of rant.

Couple of great posts !