Settlement or tourist Visa to UK?

[brewster]

Have to disagree as I think parts are illogical. For example:-

 

Subject 'A' has a property worth £400'000 and is mortgage free. He now earns only £18'000 and therefore does not meet the required income and has no savings to make up the difference. Visa refused.

 

Subject B earns £18'600 but rents a property or pays a mortgage at £700 per month. Visa granted as he earns the minimum income needed but actually has less disposable income.

 

Subject A is obviously better off every month financially but the visa would be refused as they don't look at disposable income which is illogical. Subject A could remortgage his house and stick £62'500 in the bank and then get the visa without having to show any employment or income at all. After six months of having the money in the bank he could get visa for wife. Pay off the mortgage and be back to earning £18'000.

 

Also:

The income threshold of £18,600 is based on advice from the independent Migration Advisory Committee, and is calculated as the level at which a couple generally ceases to be able to access income-related benefit.

 

Unfortunately the UK government have twisted this as they only consider the income of the U.K. Spouse. It was originally intended to represent a joint income of two people. My wife could have an income from investments or other but none of this is actually taken in to consideration.

 

It's also pretty stupid that if you earn the minimum £18'600 they then charge you nearly £2000 to process a visa (visa+NHS+TB+English test). If going by what they say then this will force you in to claiming benefits as it has just pushed your annual income down to £16'600 (not working out tax etc.)

 

They are actually targeting the wrong people with their rules, in my opinion.

I totally agree that the financial requirements for Settlement visas are illogical! But that wasn't what I was discussing with the OP.

[bobbymack]

Brewster, so are you saying that I should say we are both returning to England for 6 months and then both of us to return to Thailand after 6 months and quote this as a reason to return? As I am 50 now, I could say I will be applying for Thai retirement visa? I suppose I can then always say in the app for settlement visa later, that I changed my mind.

I will not waste time and money applying for a 2-3 weeks holiday in UK.

How are couples supposed to build up a history of 2 years living together if only having 2-3 week holidays?

[Scumbag]

You missed my point: the problem, as I outlined, is that the visa rules are illogical for what is a genuine reason for going back to UK with my partner of 3 years.

You need to realise that there are very good reasons for what they consider a minimum. If they are not strict people will abuse the visa system. In reality 6 bits of evidence over 2 years should not be difficult for a committed couple to produce. However living in Thailand does not make it easy as it is often easiest to put most things in the Thai person's name.

 

Have you considered marrying her? Perhaps a fiancée visa would be an easier route? I believe this makes things easier on the settlement visa front.

[bobbymack]

looked into the fiancé visa but it is the same cost as settlement and then have to get married in 6 months. I don't really believe in marriage though plus in addition, half of the people I know have been married and it all ended in a mess and the guys got stitched up. Even more so when marrying a Thai. The statistic in the UK is also 50% of marriages now end in divorce. I am sure I would be within the 50% that ended in divorce.

I suppose it is possible we could not get married while in England and just go the unmarried partner route then?

I do have 6 pieces of evidence of living together here but just not joint leases, utility bills or joint bank accounts.

[Lloydies]

 

 

Have you considered marrying her? Perhaps a fiancée visa would be an easier route? I believe this makes things easier on the settlement visa front.

I am not so sure about that 

[Lloydies]

looked into the fiancé visa but it is the same cost as settlement and then have to get married in 6 months. I don't really believe in marriage though plus in addition, half of the people I know have been married and it all ended in a mess and the guys got stitched up. Even more so when marrying a Thai. The statistic in the UK is also 50% of marriages now end in divorce. I am sure I would be within the 50% that ended in divorce.

I suppose it is possible we could not get married while in England and just go the unmarried partner route then?

I do have 6 pieces of evidence of living together here but just not joint leases, utility bills or joint bank accounts.

Just ask the landlord to put lease in joint name, bung him 500bt and he will just rewrite the contract with both names on it.

 

My landlady done it for free 

[Scumbag]

I am not so sure about that 

For the fiancée visa a quick search found that you only have to show that you have known each other for 6 months. Given the OPs situation that may be easier.

[Mr David]

The first visa I acquired for my girlfriend(now wife) was originally intended for a months holiday. She only stayed a month but as the visa issued was for 6 months and multi entry, she came back for a further 3 months. She has just had another visa issued and the second visit on the first visa has had no effect at all and it may have helped as it shows she returned to Thailand.

 

You could get her a visa but when applying say for 1 month. Circumstances change and she is fully entitled to stay up to six months on this visa or you could get a cheap flight and have her return as I did. She will get stopped on entry to the UK the second time and questioned as to why she is returning so quickly. Make sure you are on the end of a phone as they will call you to clarify she is not coming over to work. Just be honest.

[Lloydies]

The first visa I acquired for my girlfriend(now wife) was originally intended for a months holiday. She only stayed a month but as the visa issued was for 6 months and multi entry, she came back for a further 3 months. She has just had another visa issued and the second visit on the first visa has had no effect at all and it may have helped as it shows she returned to Thailand.

 

You could get her a visa but when applying say for 1 month. Circumstances change and she is fully entitled to stay up to six months on this visa or you could get a cheap flight and have her return as I did. She will get stopped on entry to the UK the second time and questioned as to why she is returning so quickly. Make sure you are on the end of a phone as they will call you to clarify she is not coming over to work. Just be honest.

All visitors visas to UK are for 6 months but I didn't know they did multi entry, how long ago was this?

[brewster]

All visitors visas to UK are for 6 months but I didn't know they did multi entry, how long ago was this?

 

I was told all UK visas are Multiple Entry unless there is a specific reason for them not to  be. 

 

My GF got a Marriage Visitor visa in April.  It's multiple entry, so we made one trip in April (to give notice to marry) and we're going back in August for the wedding.

[Mr David]

I believe multi entry is standard. First visa was applied for last year for travel in August. Just looked at photo of current visa and it's the same. Visa type C (C is standard visitor visa)Mutli 180 day duration.

[bobbymack]

Does anyone know if sending if I am sending too many documents for a Visitor Visa, as I read that they don't want utility bills etc. My proposed list is:

1. her current passport and previous passport and photo 

2. copies of my passport pages to show the corresponding times we have been away in Southeast Asia together

3. Photos together over a 3 year period.

4. Letter from my landlord saying we have lived together for over 2-3 years

5. My statement that I have and will be sponsoring her in UK together with my bank statement

6. Letter from my previous employer here in Thailand that I worked there and that they know we have lived together for 2-3 years

7. Letter from my parents to say that we can stay with them when over in UK and mortgage statement as proof of ownership

 

remember she has no job, property or children

 

Is this all too much for the Visitor visa and not required?

[Scumbag]

Does anyone know if sending if I am sending too many documents for a Visitor Visa, as I read that they don't want utility bills etc. My proposed list is:

1. her current passport and previous passport and photo 

2. copies of my passport pages to show the corresponding times we have been away in Southeast Asia together

3. Photos together over a 3 year period.

4. Letter from my landlord saying we have lived together for over 2-3 years

5. My statement that I have and will be sponsoring her in UK together with my bank statement

6. Letter from my previous employer here in Thailand that I worked there and that they know we have lived together for 2-3 years

7. Letter from my parents to say that we can stay with them when over in UK and mortgage statement as proof of ownership

 

remember she has no job, property or children

 

Is this all too much for the Visitor visa and not required?

You will need to supply a reason why she will come back to Thailand. That is one of the major things that they will be looking at when considering the visa.

[bobbymack]

Yes, I know about the reasons which will be in the statements and application form but I was wondering about the supporting documents. Is my list too many?

My supporting documents cover that

1. we know each other

2. That we have somewhere to stay in UK

3. That I can support her financially

 

I was considering checking the box in the application form that she has dependants, her parents and her young brother that she sends money for his college but as she can just as easily send money home from the UK, not sure why that would be a reason to return. 

As I said before, the apparent reasons for return as cited by UK immigration seem false, as why would property be a reason for return, as it can easily be sold or rented out. Money can be sent home for children and parents and a low income job is no reason to return. Makes no sense.  

[Mr David]

If I was in your position I would just be applying for a visitor visa for a holiday. Say you are both just visiting the UK for a holiday to visit relatives and you will both be returning to Thailand. (Friends wedding or something)

 

If you are staying at your parents house then are they the sponsor? Supporting documents should be provided from them to prove they live there. Utility bill, council tax. I would not have thought you would need to show their bank statements if you are already showing you have adequate funds to cover the trip.

 

Once you get the visa then you can do what you like for six months but you will have to provide a return flight itinerary for the girl on entering the UK. One girl I know just got turned back at Heathrow as she applied for a visa saying she was going for a two week holiday but return ticket was for six months!

 

If you see a good deal for one way tickets then go for them but book one way tickets back with Emirates that are fully refundable. They are more expensive but once in the UK you can email and request full refund which will be put back on your card in about 7 days.

[Lloydies]

Is there such a thing as too much for our lot, I would have thought the more proof of your relation the better.

 

As said before the most important thing is to prove to them she has a reason to return to Thailand.

[Thai Visa Express]

this maybe of use as per the guidance :

 

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/unmarried-and-same-sex-partners-set05/unmarried-and-same-sex-partners-set05#set513-what-types-of-evidence-might-demonstrate-living-together-and-a-relationship-akin-to-marriage--civil-partnership

[bobbymack]

Section 4 of the 'Visitor: supporting documents guide' specifically says that photographs apart from the one passport one, SHOULD NOT BE SENT (unless specifically requested), so I am confused over this. I don't want to irritate the ECO who may say we have not read the requirements.

Our corresponding dates of travel in both our passports and letters from landlord and my ex-employer confirming we know each other should therefore be sufficient.

What do others think?  

[bobbymack]

Thanks for the link Thai Visa Express. As it says at point 4, other pieces of evidence of commitment other than joint bank accounts, joint utility bills etc. are therefore sufficient such as letter from landlord and juristic committee etc. will be acceptable. We therefore have more than the 6 pieces of evidence required.

[Mr David]

Section 4 of the 'Visitor: supporting documents guide' specifically says that photographs apart from the one passport one, SHOULD NOT BE SENT (unless specifically requested), so I am confused over this. I don't want to irritate the ECO who may say we have not read the requirements.

Our corresponding dates of travel in both our passports and letters from landlord and my ex-employer confirming we know each other should therefore be sufficient.

What do others think?

 

I did not send individual photos but put several on to A4 sheet and printed off. I included pages of information on my first application, even the agent said it was a lot! Joint hotel booking, airline tickets etc and photos of our time at that destination. I also wrote the location and date next to the photos. Thankfully it was easy for me as I don't really delete old emails or photos off my phone. I also grabbed old photos from her Facebook account as like most Thai's she takes photos of everything!

 

They are not going to refuse your application because you have included some photos. You are over thinking the process, which I understand why.

 

More importantly is to put all your information in a easy to understand logical manner. Get yourself some sort of folder or at least label the documents. Make it as easy to understand as possible for whoever gets to look at your application.

 

In your letter from sponsor, highlight key points that you wish to put across. Adequate funds, place to stay, you will both be returning to Thailand, friends wedding etc.

 

Actually getting yourself an invite for a wedding is a good idea.

[Thai Visa Express]

Thanks for the link Thai Visa Express. As it says at point 4, other pieces of evidence of commitment other than joint bank accounts, joint utility bills etc. are therefore sufficient such as letter from landlord and juristic committee etc. will be acceptable. We therefore have more than the 6 pieces of evidence required.

 

Does it span the total 2 years you have been together ?

[Thai Visa Express]

Thanks for the link Thai Visa Express. As it says at point 4, other pieces of evidence of commitment other than joint bank accounts, joint utility bills etc. are therefore sufficient such as letter from landlord and juristic committee etc. will be acceptable. We therefore have more than the 6 pieces of evidence required.

You advised me previously you did not have a joint rental agreement do you have one ?

[bobbymack]

I don't have joint rental agreement, not even one for me but just letter from landlord that we have been living together in the same condo since December 2013. Also, I can get the Juristic Committee to write a letter to the same effect. I think that is better than a joint rental agreement anyway, which can just be manufactured.

In any event, I think I would just rather go for the visitor visa first to see how it pans out in England for 6 months and then apply for settlement if all goes well.

[Thai Visa Express]

I think thats a more sensible idea.

[rodo555]

I see your problem.  Unfortunately applying for a Visitor visa for a 6 month stay, when your ultimate plan is to settle in the UK, isn't likely to work, for all the reasons you mention.  I'd go for the Settlement visa and find a way of evidencing your relationship in Thailand, or change your plans and make it a shorter holiday (as I'm sure you know, there is nothing to actually stop her staying in the UK for 6 months, even if you stated a shorter visit on the application, although it is likely to make future applications difficult unless you can give a good reason for it).

 

The Settlement visa rules are not really "illogical" - they're unfair and strict, but if you intend for her to settle in the UK you will have to follow them.  Having to prove your relationship is understandable.  Maybe your Agent is being unnecessarily cautious?

My girlfriend has visited the uk now three times the first for 10 weeks and the other two for almost 6 months on both occasions we requested a far shorter time that we extended when she was in the UK , we have been together for 5 years and were able to prove the 5 year relationship even that at that time she had no land or house in Thailand ( we are now building a house in Issan ) so now able to prove that she will return

Also a good friends TGF came over for 10 weeks on a 6 month visitors visa and returned on the same visa for a further 10 weeks , I think it helped that I had good funds in the bank and owned my house I all three visas I used Key Visa and happy to use them again