Lawyer + General questions about buying a Condo

[mas188]

Hi all, 

I hope that is the right section.

I would like receive suggestion about trustable Lawyer in Pattaya for buying a condo in a thai company name. 

I'm on the way to buy a condo and i want to have everything clear and under control with no surprises.

Considering now, october 2017 (i have read many forum about this topic but mostly were about years ago), do you feel safe to open a thai company for buying a condo paying with a payment plan that will make you became the owner in january 2019?

As i know, i can buy the condo with a payment plan, and open the company only at the end of the payment plans, is that correct?

How can i make sure that there are no hidden issues about the building or hidden future planned cost? The building i'm talking about is 2 years old, constructor trusted...  i just feel the bargain, too much a bargain ahahah...

Thanks to everyone can help me in this... free beers is going to be your reward, better than zero right? ;)

[davidge]

Don’t do it!

Buy in foreign name only.

Don’t buy off plan unless you are willing to possibly lose your money or wait a very long time for completion. No telling when you might get the chanote, if ever.

If you named the Condo you’d get some feedback on the developer - plenty of notorious ones in Pattaya.

[mas188]

Hi davidge.. thanks for your message.

The building is complete. Already since 2 years. Is a re-sell.

The seller accept to get a 80% of the amount and the rest in 1 one year. And i can walk in as soon as a pay the "deposit" and since that day i will start to refund him for the condo monthly/yearly fee. Everything will be wrote in the contract obviously.

I hope i clearify my post. 

Thanks

[davidge]

19 minutes ago, mas188 said:

Hi davidge.. thanks for your message.

The building is complete. Already since 2 years. Is a re-sell.

The seller accept to get a 80% of the amount and the rest in 1 one year. And i can walk in as soon as a pay the "deposit" and since that day i will start to refund him for the condo monthly/yearly fee. Everything will be wrote in the contract obviously.

I hope i clearify my post. 

Thanks

I still wouldn’t buy in Thai (company) name. Absolutely no need. Plenty of condos in foreign name available and it is absolutely a buyer’s market.

If you insist on continuing with this, when will the company be transferred to you? Presumably, you’ll pay 80% of the cost, live in the condo for a year, then still be in a position where you have nothing in your name. Only after this will the company, and hence, the condo be put in your name?

Not sure any legal document will help you if the seller just decides to keep it or sell to someone else. You are relying on his honesty.

Sounds like you can’t really afford to buy the condo. That’s a huge risk to take. Are you willing/able to lose the money if it comes to it?

[mas188]

36 minutes ago, davidge said:

Don’t do it!

Buy in foreign name only.

Don’t buy off plan unless you are willing to possibly lose your money or wait a very long time for completion. No telling when you might get the chanote, if ever.

If you named the Condo you’d get some feedback on the developer - plenty of notorious ones in Pattaya.

Nope.. no one think want to lose money.

The reason why there is the payment plan is just because i'm planning to stay for long time in thailand in the next 2 years, but at the same time i want to became officially the onwer only in january 2019, for different reasons. 

If there is a contract signed, in front of a lawyer, i believe he can't sell to anyone..

As i know we can wrote in the contract my name as company older of xxx.. 

[davidge]

You’ve obviously decided you’re going ahead with this and will ignore any advice to the contrary, so I’ll butt out now.

I’ve not dealt with a Pattaya lawyer recently so can’t recommend one from first hand experience.

Good luck.

[mas188]

What i want to say is that if i buy in a company name, i want to get my name and the company only in january 2019. If i buy in foreigner ownership no problems.

When we talk about bargain, is really hard to find something in a Foreigner ownership, much more easy in a thai company name.. and that is a good bargain.. the owner need fresh money before the end of the year.. i just want to make sure to have no surprise and everything goes how it should.

[mas188]

No.. i'm trying to get advice davidge and i'm really thankful to yours.. i just haven't clearified the situation about my reasons in my first post... i wanted not get involved in thai company name.. but when you find the condo you wanted... located in the building you wanted at the size you wanted... where there is no other units on sell.. well i start to see if i can match all things and make it happen.

Thanks again

[Gnorman]

I'm totally out of my depth on this one but will ask, is there any way of finding out the Chanote even exits in the hands of the current owner?

Only reason I ask is because to my knowledge like the condo's at the Centara Azure hotel the Chanotes are not in the hands of the owners "yet". 

 

[simon46]

49 minutes ago, mas188 said:

 

Considering now, october 2017 (i have read many forum about this topic but mostly were about years ago), do you feel safe to open a thai company

No. 

For the sake of a bit of saving on a condo you are trying to wriggle around Thai law.  Let us guess that you have  zero knowledge of how future governments intend to enforce this law or not.

Expect the sympathy you give to a cockroach if a decision is taken to enforce a very easily understood law.

If losing your punt will give you a sleepless night steer well clear.

[mas188]

9 minutes ago, simon46 said:

No. 

For the sake of a bit of saving on a condo you are trying to wriggle around Thai law.  Let us guess that you have  zero knowledge of how future governments intend to enforce this law or not.

Expect the sympathy you give to a cockroach if a decision is taken to enforce a very easily understood law.

If losing your punt will give you a sleepless night steer well clear.

I got what you said... That was also the reason about why i would not get involved in company name's.. until 3 days ago.. 

[Scuba+]

Be careful, some new builds have no chanote (deeds) which basically means although you may pay for it the bank or other creditors could take back possession. Centara Soi 15 is an example.

Best thing you can do is let us know what condo?

[mas188]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Be careful, some new builds have no chanote (deeds) which basically means although you may pay for it the bank or other creditors could take back possession. Centara Soi 15 is an example.

Best thing you can do is let us know what condo?

VN residence 3 scubascuba3

[Scuba+]

I'm totally out of my depth on this one but will ask, is there any way of finding out the Chanote even exits in the hands of the current owner?

Only reason I ask is because to my knowledge like the condo's at the Centara Azure hotel the Chanotes are not in the hands of the owners "yet". 

 

Yes I missed your post. Once people realise they have no chanote (Centara) they try and sell quick before any shit hits the fan

 

[Edge]

Simple and obvious (to me) answer is to call Magna Carta and make an appointment with Tony Justice for a free advice interview.

All will then become crystal clear.

[Oukiva]

46 minutes ago, Gnorman said:

//  is there any way of finding out the Chanote even exits in the hands of the current owner?

Just ask him to show it to you 

and ask to have a copy so that someone can translate & check it for you.

[Scuba+]

VN residence 3 scubascuba3

Personally I wouldn't buy in Thai company name. I'm not surprised you are getting a deal as I understand Thais are struggling to get mortgages so they are finding it harder to sell even than foreign quota condos.

[davidge]

5 hours ago, mas188 said:

No.. i'm trying to get advice davidge and i'm really thankful to yours.. i just haven't clearified the situation about my reasons in my first post... i wanted not get involved in thai company name.. but when you find the condo you wanted... located in the building you wanted at the size you wanted... where there is no other units on sell.. well i start to see if i can match all things and make it happen.

Thanks again

Well, I’ll take your word for it 

A few people have come on here with similar questions when they were only looking for validation for a decision they’d, in fact, already made and just ignored anything else.

Just be aware you are taking more than one risk with this. 

1. Giving money without having either the condo chanote or the company transferred to your name.

2. Relying that signing something drawn up by a lawyer is some sort of guarantee. I know from personal experience that an agreement drawn up by a lawyer is no guarantee of anything in Thailand!

3. Buying in company name when that is, strictly speaking, illegal in Thailand and could be enforced at any time the government chose.

It’s your decision and entirely up to you if you are willing to take the risk with your money.

Personally, I’d rather put my money on the favourite in the 3.30 at Ascot 

[supergeil]

Maybe a bit repetitive, but I’ll echo the sentiment here: Do not buy in company name!

You will be breaking the law, and while many will tell you that people buy condos in company names all over Thailand and the government has never cracked down on this, there have been people who have been swindled out of their company owned condo, because you will not be the majority owner of the company (according to the law), so the majority owner can transfer the condo to someone else, and you can’t expect the authorities to step in and help you when the entire setup is illegal.

It will also be a lot more difficult to sell the condo later because you don’t actually own it, so you need to sell the company, which is co-owned by some Thai nominees.

I do understand what you say about having found the right condo: If you have high standards, it can be difficult to find a good condo in Thailand, but if you want to go through with it, do not expect to ever make back the money you spend on this condo and do not expect that a lawyer’s presence is any guarantee that everything will be smooth sailing, as an ethical lawyer would probably refuse to take part in this.

[mas188]

2 hours ago, davidge said:

2. Relying that signing something drawn up by a lawyer is some sort of guarantee. I know from personal experience that an agreement drawn up by a lawyer is no guarantee of anything in Thailand!

You just took a shadow and slowly get into my body... ahaha!

I think i have two ways then... erase my idea to get that condo and about opening a thai company (as i never liked it)... or just pay one it all (he has his chanote) and get the propriety at the same time with all the risk about the thai company name. I will probably put a lower offer with one side of me hoping that he will not accept lol.

I personally doubt that the Thai gov will change something about this law.. for me things can only get easier instead the opposite.. they get a lot of money considering these thousands fake companies plus considering how many buildings are growing everywhere the only way to make those buildings not dead or half empty is to allow in some way foreigners to get in over the real 49%.. the number of the building are growing at that cost doesn't follow the numbers of thai people who can afford it... i just my opinion.. that count less then zero..

[mas188]

54 minutes ago, supergeil said:

Maybe a bit repetitive, but I’ll echo the sentiment here: Do not buy in company name!

You will be breaking the law, and while many will tell you that people buy condos in company names all over Thailand and the government has never cracked down on this, there have been people who have been swindled out of their company owned condo, because you will not be the majority owner of the company (according to the law), so the majority owner can transfer the condo to someone else, and you can’t expect the authorities to step in and help you when the entire setup is illegal.

It will also be a lot more difficult to sell the condo later because you don’t actually own it, so you need to sell the company, which is co-owned by some Thai nominees.

I do understand what you say about having found the right condo: If you have high standards, it can be difficult to find a good condo in Thailand, but if you want to go through with it, do not expect to ever make back the money you spend on this condo and do not expect that a lawyer’s presence is any guarantee that everything will be smooth sailing, as an ethical lawyer would probably refuse to take part in this.

What if the thai company has be made for well know people as i trust? I mean... maybe i'm saying something stupid and i'm sorry for it... if i have 3 thai friends (since 10 years, who actually live in USA that i full trust).. and i make this fake company instead as with strangers, with them... first, is it possible? and second, will make things safer?

[Czmate]

I gotta say you asked for honest advice you've got it and you still try to justify in your own mind the best thing to do is buy if that's the right word something illegally in a foreign name you've been told, so if that's not good enough get on and do it and the best of British to you !

[davidge]

52 minutes ago, mas188 said:

You just took a shadow and slowly get into my body... ahaha!

I think i have two ways then... erase my idea to get that condo and about opening a thai company (as i never liked it)... or just pay one it all (he has his chanote) and get the propriety at the same time with all the risk about the thai company name. I will probably put a lower offer with one side of me hoping that he will not accept lol.

I personally doubt that the Thai gov will change something about this law.. for me things can only get easier instead the opposite.. they get a lot of money considering these thousands fake companies plus considering how many buildings are growing everywhere the only way to make those buildings not dead or half empty is to allow in some way foreigners to get in over the real 49%.. the number of the building are growing at that cost doesn't follow the numbers of thai people who can afford it... i just my opinion.. that count less then zero..

It’s not a matter of changing the law just applying it more widely. It has been enforced in a few cases and the farang have always lost the property. I agree there would be huge repercussions as developers routinely sell in this way.

I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess as to what the current regime may or may not do. I do think they intend to be around for a while, in one form or another. I don’t think there’s been quite as much uncertainty as to what will happen since the early 1970’s. Farang are just going to have to roll with the punches.

 

[Oukiva]

Hum... Even I buying a "condo in Thai name" by creating a Thai company is usually not 100% legal (mainly because the Thai partners didn't bring their part of the money) I would consider that the risk is nearly zero.

Good lawyers have found a way that seems rather clear and safe, with the company not being "sleeping" and paying taxes, and I never heard of a farang buying a condo this way having trouble with it...?

Even for buying a house, where the risk should be higher, in the few cases of trouble that I know, the use of a Thai company was not the main reason of their problems.

To be clear: Thailand is trying for years to solve this problem, but concentrates only on the very big players, like the foreign companies who managed to buy lands of hundreds of rais near Phuket or in Isan. They are currently absolutely no interested on all the small "players" on properties worthing less than 50 or 100 millions baht!

On an other side, there are advantages in buying through a Thai company. Thai condos are cheaper; You don't have to bring the money from abroad; You do not pay Land Office buying/selling taxes if you sell the condo with its company (you just change the "director" of the company); etc.

The easy selling also implies an easy way and cheap way to transmit your condo to your heir in the case where you die. Don't forget that if you own a condo in Farang name and your heir is a farang, he may not be authorised to keep it, and then be forced to sell it quickly. it's a serious problem.

So it's worth to well study the 2 options IMHO...

 

[mas188]

18 minutes ago, Czmate said:

I gotta say you asked for honest advice you've got it and you still try to justify in your own mind the best thing to do is buy if that's the right word something illegally in a foreign name you've been told, so if that's not good enough get on and do it and the best of British to you !

Are you sure about what are you talking about? 

p.s. i personal not agree is illegal... as i know there is no law against opening a company owned to the majority of people thai, directed from a foreigner, with no income, who pay taxes and who can have proprieties.. then if you say is not etic, risky or whatever i might agree.. in my opinion is a good way to make money come to thailand and keep the control of the country.. similar to other politics used in Philippines. I put as a ps because is out of contest