Experiences Of Speaking Thai With Bar Girls

[herds]

tell them he's a ขี้หย่า

[dcfc2007]

rosetta stone paeng mak kap.

[Darkside Bob]

No Farang can speak Thai fluently.

[cuteincords1]

rosetta stone paeng mak kap.

 

have you never heard of torrent sharing you can get it for free took maak khrap

[dcfc2007]

have you never heard of torrent sharing you can get it for free took maak khrap

 

I am shite with computers do you have the link and maybe i could have a bash at downloading it?

[Loong]

I have no experience with Rosetta Stone, but from what I have been told it would not be much help if you want to talk to bar girls.

So many study resources concentrate on the more polite Thai instead of every day conversational Thai.

 

ie. you will here กินข้าว gin kâao much more often than ทานข้าว taan kâao yet some books will concentrate on the latter.

[Dr.Winston]

I have no experience with Rosetta Stone, but from what I have been told it would not be much help if you want to talk to bar girls.

So many study resources concentrate on the more polite Thai instead of every day conversational Thai.

 

ie. you will here กินข้าว gin kâao much more often than ทานข้าว taan kâao yet some books will concentrate on the latter.

I have no real experience with Rosetta Stone either (i've had a quick listen) but I've found that bar girls really respect Thai being spoken well (as in correct) even if they use a dialect or slang themselves so I wouldn't reccomend against the course because somebody spends their time in bars. No need to lower the standard of your Thai to comunicate with them or anybody. Slang can be fun for getting a laugh but that's it really, as long as you understand it it precludes the need to speak it IMO.

[Loong]

I have no real experience with Rosetta Stone either (i've had a quick listen) but I've found that bar girls really respect Thai being spoken well (as in correct) even if they use a dialect or slang themselves so I wouldn't reccomend against the course because somebody spends their time in bars. No need to lower the standard of your Thai to comunicate with them or anybody. Slang can be fun for getting a laugh but that's it really, as long as you understand it it precludes the need to speak it IMO.

 

Sorry Doctor,

I think that you may have misunderstood. I wasn't referring to slang. I have known of people who have made the effort to try to learn Thai, only to find that they have been learning "Newsreader", posh Thai or Thai spoken to those of higher status. It is really frustrating for those who spend the time and effort only to find that the version of Thai they have been learning is not much use for everyday conversation.

Of course, most Thais will understand the Farang speaking Posh Thai, but the Farang will not understand the Thai speaking as they do everyday.

 

That's why i used "eating" as an example although I should have written taan aa-hăan for the more polite version

When I first started to learn Thai it included things like the 2nd version of "You eat food", very polite and respectful, but not used commonly.

 

 

คุณกินข้าว kun gin kâao

 

ท่านทานอาหาร tâan taan aa-hăan

Edited February 27, 2010 by Loong

[herds]

hehe and the kicker is they will let you carry on as it's not everyday they get refereed to as ท่าน

[cuteincords1]

I have known of people who have made the effort to try to learn Thai, only to find that they have been learning "Newsreader", posh Thai or Thai spoken to those of higher status.

 

 

Unless your in Thailand immersed in the language , your only going to learn ''posh spoken thai'' its a bit like the Poles who have come over here to work in the UK when you first start talking to them what you get from them is '' Hello How do you do'' and all that posh english but once there over here for about a year and are immersed in english language it becomes ''Or right how the fuck are yeah'' with a polish accent

[CoByau]

No Farang can speak Thai fluently.

 

Not with an attitude like that .

 

I've been learning 11 months and can speak/read/write almost fluently now.

Thai people (both in Australia and Thailand) are surprised when I inform them I am not Half Thai or Thai people.

 

Its possible if you think its possible.

[herds]

CoByau - is your first language Laos?

Edited March 3, 2010 by herds

[CoByau]

CoByau - is your first language Laos?

 

No, I am from Australia and have no Asian heritage at all.

My first language is English.

 

I did learn Japanese in Primary/High school, however can only remember a few words now.

 

 

I've now hit the 1 year point of learning Thai. My housemate has a Thai fiance who moved in to my house back in January, and the majority of our conversations are now only in Thai.

 

 

I would say I still have a ways to go before I can confidently state I am "Fluent" .. however I can now say most things I want to and understand nearly everything.

[Bombom]

personally i think its impossible to be fluent in 11 months,fluent means you can speak about anything at all,write a report or letter and read a newspaper,you cant take in that many words and remember them.

your brain just cant process thai without time,reading into yourself is easy,reading out loud correctly is much harder,even just to learn the tone rules takes time and to read a book without having to think low consontant etc.sure i have friends i can have converstion with not everyone is easy to talk to and understand them.

 

good luck

[herds]

Can't remember the youtube link but that guy stu jay (i think), he was on a "the one show" thai type program and he was talking in thai about languages and he said he has about 30 down, 15 he would say good skill/fluent and the others down pretty well. They then showed a table where he rated himself in languages and he gave himself 4/5 for Thai, and I remember thinking, if he thinks he's 4/5 i'd have to score myself in fractions, haha. The only slight give away with him talking was his accent wasn't 100% but then personally the first time I went to chiang mai I thought they were all talking weird (reminds me of a hearing negotiations between a thai girl and a geordie on sukhumvit once, but that's another story).

 

On the show he said he'd been living there for I think 5 years, has a Thai family, reads the dictionary before bed (!), presents tv shows in thai and is provent advanced polyglot and yet he still didn't consider himself 5 out of 5 fluent.

[Dr.Winston]

Can't remember the youtube link but that guy stu jay (i think), he was on a "the one show" thai type program and he was talking in thai about languages and he said he has about 30 down, 15 he would say good skill/fluent and the others down pretty well. They then showed a table where he rated himself in languages and he gave himself 4/5 for Thai, and I remember thinking, if he thinks he's 4/5 i'd have to score myself in fractions, haha. The only slight give away with him talking was his accent wasn't 100% but then personally the first time I went to chiang mai I thought they were all talking weird (reminds me of a hearing negotiations between a thai girl and a geordie on sukhumvit once, but that's another story).

 

On the show he said he'd been living there for I think 5 years, has a Thai family, reads the dictionary before bed (!), presents tv shows in thai and is provent advanced polyglot and yet he still didn't consider himself 5 out of 5 fluent.

I think too much is made of the word fluent. To me it just means that you can have a flowing or fluent conversation. Some people seem to interpret it as some kind of linguistic perfection, so it's subjective. Interestingly, I've heard that proffesional interpreters need to be 'extra fluent' lol. Why does it need to be defined anyway, surely the focus should just be on communication?

[CoByau]

yeahh .. as I said .. I wouldnt consider myself "fluent" yet ... but ... My friends type in Thai to me and I can understand what they are saying and I write back to them in Thai also.

 

I only speak Thai with my housemates fiance who is Thai .. occasionally still use English but over 75% of the time our interactions are in Thai.

 

I am not linguistically perfect by any means. In fact I would quite easily say that after 23 years of learning English (I am only 23 years old) I am far from linguist perfection.

 

However fluency to me dictates that one can converse, read and write in the language to an advanced level.

Another definition I heard was that 2,000 words is enough to consider oneself 90% "fluent" in a language.

 

I would say after 1 year I am at 75%. however improving every day and learning new words every day!.

[Ajay75]

I've just got back and I was speaking 75% Thai everyday. The only times I didnt is when I was too hungover / tired so I just couldnt concentrate or be bothered to think too much. I didn't get any negativity from Thai's both male and female. Many asked if I lived there or had a wife which I took as a compliment.

 

I did take time to explain that although I speak Thai and can have a converstation for a fair while, its no where near what I would consider fluent personally and there are still many things I still dont know about the language. It was quite nice sometimes not to have to listen to their pigeon English. But if a girl knew pretty good english I would just speak english with her.

[M&M]

You will often hear Thailand ex-pats or old hands say "BG's don't like it when you speak Thai with them" The implication is that if you speak Thai with them that they will automatically put you into the Farang Ruu Maak" (Farang who knows too much) category. This does happen, I have heard farang ruu maak said many times in bars and Go Go's. The thing is that in my experience the girls who might be put off by this are usually the ones that you would want to avoid anyway. If they only want a farang who knows a little then what does that tell you about their intentions?

 

One group of BG's that love it when you can speak Thai are the Farm fresh new girls. They must feel very intimidated in their new environment. All those scary foreigners around that they cannot communicate with. Can you imagine what a relief it must be to them to find a foreigner that they can actually sit down and talk to? Mamasans will often bring the newest girls over to good foreigners that can speak Thai. I have been many BG's first customer for this reason.

 

On a deeper level I feel that you can bypass many of the barriers and defenses that they build up by speaking Thai with them. Over a period of time BG's will get used to the type of conversations that they have with customers (nearly alway in English). Their responses to the most common questions can become almost automatic. How many times do you think that they here "where are you from?" Many BG's are wary of becoming too attached to customers, they have learned that it causes a lot of heart break for them. Over time they build up defenses and responses to prevent this from happening. I have found that many of these defenses are bypassed when your Thai is good enough. Almost like you are approaching them from an angle that they are not used to defending against.

 

I have often had them stare at me and say "please stop" it's not because they are not enjoying the interaction (you can tell if a girl really likes you) it's because they can feel themselves being drawn in because you have bypassed their defenses with a level of communication that they just aren't used to from customers.

 

I also find that I tend to be viewed by them as an "insider" in their worlds. They will include me in their conversations and ask my advice on things.

 

Please do not be put off by those that would discourage you from learning to speak Thai. Once your Thai reaches a certain level the benefits will be worth the effort you have put into learning it.

Well said! #The best# girls do not speak english very well - You get a lot more when speaking some Thai. You may even get the priviledge to translate their SMS es to farangs and spell Bullshit for them when they are angry

[Sam Hill]

It is hard to learn Thai when you don't live here. You have to be submerged in a language and culture, where you hear it every day and possibly are even forced to learn it. When I lived up north, very few locals could speak more than a few dozen disconnected words of English. That gave me a reason to learn Thai. The way to remember is by repetition, repetition, repetition. You need reinforcement to make it sink in. Fortunately, I had a cool language teacher. He said to me one day, "You need to practice your Thai. Go out and get a girl." And spending a day or two with a Thai girl who didn't speak English did wonders. (I mean for my Thai language, though it did the rest of me good too. )

 

Best thing to do in the west is to get recordings and listen to them frequently during the day. Stick with one lesson until you master it, then move on to the next. Don't get discouraged, just keep at it. Next time you come back to LOS you should notice a big difference. For one thing the counry will be more enjoyable. I feel awkward when I am in Cambodia or Malaysia because I simply cannot understand what is being said around me. I never feel like a stranger in Thailand or Laos.

[Ajay75]

yeahh .. as I said .. I wouldnt consider myself "fluent" yet ... but ... My friends type in Thai to me and I can understand what they are saying and I write back to them in Thai also.

 

I only speak Thai with my housemates fiance who is Thai .. occasionally still use English but over 75% of the time our interactions are in Thai.

 

I am not linguistically perfect by any means. In fact I would quite easily say that after 23 years of learning English (I am only 23 years old) I am far from linguist perfection.

 

However fluency to me dictates that one can converse, read and write in the language to an advanced level.

Another definition I heard was that 2,000 words is enough to consider oneself 90% "fluent" in a language.

 

I would say after 1 year I am at 75%. however improving every day and learning new words every day!.

 

I'm sorry but I find this very hard to believe. How do you know you are 75%? Do you have a teacher? How do you learn?

 

Also learning 2000 words doesn't mean anything. Yes you'll have a big vocab but can you converse in a wide range of subjects and speak as a native would?

 

I can read Thai newspapers and magazines but it doesnt mean that I know what they are talking about all the time. The thing with learning from other people who arent teachers is that they may not be the best resource to learn from. I've conversed in written Thai with people on chatrooms and Facebook etc and some peoples spelling is pretty bad.

 

I've heard of lots of people who think they speak amazing but when asking a Thai when that persons gone if they understood, I would say 80 - 90% said they didnt speak well or understood them fully.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Ajay75

[el_jefe]

I'm sorry but I find this very hard to believe. How do you know you are 75%? Do you have a teacher? How do you learn?

 

Also learning 2000 words doesn't mean anything. Yes you'll have a big vocab but can you converse in a wide range of subjects and speak as a native would?

 

I can read Thai newspapers and magazines but it doesnt mean that I know what they are talking about all the time. The thing with learning from other people who arent teachers is that they may not be the best resource to learn from. I've conversed in written Thai with people on chatrooms and Facebook etc and some peoples spelling is pretty bad.

 

I've heard of lots of people who think they speak amazing but when asking a Thai when that persons gone if they understood, I would say 80 - 90% said they didnt speak well or understood them fully.

 

If one is still measuring his/her level of "fluency" in the number of words they know, it's likely they're not anywhere close to fluency. Fluency is really about knowing patterns in the language. And Thai of course adds the extra dimension of pronouncing the vowels and the tones correctly and of course comprehension.

 

If you're "fluent" you should be able to watch a soap opera in Thai or watch the news or whatever. 2,000 words is an excellent start and congratulations, but a 3 year old who may know only 1,000 words, is probably way waaaaay more fluent.

 

Again not knocking anyone, but get outside of the bars or listen to two thais talking to eachother or listen to the news or the soaps and then decide just how fluent you are.

 

Once one is conversing 100% in Thai, then one can probably be considered conversational. They may still not understand everything but have the ability to query in Thai as to the meaning of a sentence or a word. That is still probably far from fluent.

 

ps Isn't 2,000 words a relatively small vocabulary when compared to a fluent speaker. I mean, 2,000 words, may cover 90% of words in a conversation, but those 10% of words you don't know are not words like "of" "or" "a" "the" ..., they're probably the meat of the meaning. Again, 2,000 is a lot on your way to learning Thai.

Edited November 12, 2010 by el_jefe

[Sam Hill]

My Thai is conversationally very fluent. But if I watch the political news on television I can follow no more than 50% of it. The problem with learning Thai even when living here is that you find yourself in the same situations over and over - shopping, ordering food, travelling, general chitchat. In certain situations you do fine. Get away from them and you are lost. Thai has levels of vocabulary - for equals, talking to superiors, speaking to monk or even royals (something we don't have to worry about). Even the average expat can handle no more than ordinary conversations, the type one gets into every day. Our vocabulary outside of that will be very limited, unless we make a conscious effort to improve it through reading.

[el_jefe]

My Thai is conversationally very fluent. But if I watch the political news on television I can follow no more than 50% of it. The problem with learning Thai even when living here is that you find yourself in the same situations over and over - shopping, ordering food, travelling, general chitchat. In certain situations you do fine. Get away from them and you are lost. Thai has levels of vocabulary - for equals, talking to superiors, speaking to monk or even royals (something we don't have to worry about). Even the average expat can handle no more than ordinary conversations, the type one gets into every day. Our vocabulary outside of that will be very limited, unless we make a conscious effort to improve it through reading.

 

If you can understand 50% of the exact meaning of what they're saying on the network news without seeing the pictures or filling in gaps with guesses - i.e., you could transcribe it into written thai (and understand), I'm seriously impressed. I'm guessing that would mean knowing something like 90% of the vocabulary they're using and being able to keep up with its use and sometimes complex grammatical patterns. Well done.

 

How did you get to that point?

[Sam Hill]

Well, for one thing I've lived here 20 years.

 

You almost have to be surrounded by a language to learn it. When I first came to LOS I lived in a small city with very few people who could speak English. That gave me motivation to learn. I think my Thai was probably better before I moved to Bangkok than now. Too easy to get by speaking English in Bangkok or Pattaya.

 

My active vocab is probably not all that great, but I have a good passive vocabulary. You get that from reading - words you recognise when you hear them but probably never use. That's what you need to follow the news.

 

I left Thailand for a few years and my Thai got very rusty from disuse. When I came back it took me many months to get back to where I had been. That's the problem with just visiting here and trying to learn Thai. It is so much easier to forget a language than to learn it.