Long Haul Business Class for under $2K (Long Post)

[bgtp]

Just now, fatjack1 said:

Aha.  The Sapphire Checking account requires either $25 a month service fee or $75000 opening balance (which I assume means every month).  if that applies to investments under this umbrella then that would be OK.  But I'll pass.  I'll keep using a single wire transfer of money into my Thai account and use that ATM card.  

Yes, certain investment accounts are included. As I said earlier, I have next to nothing in the checking account for now and put $75K into a brokerage account. I mainly opened these accounts for the sign-up bonus. Getting another no fee ATM checking account is just an extra perk.

[fatjack1]

Just now, bgtp said:

Yes, certain investment accounts are included. As I said earlier, I have next to nothing in the checking account for now and put $75K into a brokerage account. I mainly opened these accounts for the sign-up bonus. Getting another no fee ATM checking account is just an extra perk.

If I was a stock trader myself I could see doing this.  I don't actively follow it though.  Good idea if you do.  

 

[Little Evil]

14 hours ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Well, shit - GLAD that I booked the SQ award when I did!  As of January 24, it's going up from 176,000 miles to 190,000 miles (88,000 each way to 95,000).  OUCH!  Singapore finally gets a non-stop to LAX and now they're devaluing KrisFlyer miles...

Here are the details:  https://thepointsguy.com/news/sq-award-chart-changing-jan-2019/?utm_campaign=100000283516778&utm_medium=social&utm_term=editorial&utm_source=TWITTER

Damn! They keep on moving the goal post further away from my SQ fantasy. I was even considering taking a positioning flight to New York just to try SQ one of these days, but to add this on top makes that decision less likely when I could fly Korean in first for that point spread. 

Let us know about your Singapore experience. I've always wanted to check it out, but knowing it is not priced like other SE Asian destinations has kept me away. I'll still go one of these days.

[bgtp]

I did a two night layover in Singapore a while back and it was OK. Glad I did it, two nights was fine. Three would have been OK, too. I really miss the free layovers that most of the airlines used to allow on award travel. Over the years, I took advantage of all the layover/open jaw opportunities for some really good itineraries.

Nice that Singapore still allows them. Korean even allows them on one-ways. I took advantage of the latter and stopped in Seoul for a few days on the way home last trip. But now that they are out of UR, I’ve lost that option. As I mentioned earlier, I was able to take advantage of United’s Excursionist Perk on this year’s upcoming summer trip for free stopover in the Philippines on the way home. Gotta take advantage where you can.

[Luv2Phuket]

2 hours ago, Little Evil said:

Damn! They keep on moving the goal post further away from my SQ fantasy. I was even considering taking a positioning flight to New York just to try SQ one of these days, but to add this on top makes that decision less likely when I could fly Korean in first for that point spread. 
 

I have always been very happy with Korean, but, since they left Chase UR, I have no idea how to build miles there.  In fact, I had all but forgotten about them....and the 96,000+ miles that I have stashed there!  555

Any thoughts/plans on how to build Korean miles now that UR is out?

I already have the Korean Air SkyPass business credit card (and I had the personal version years ago).  I guess I could see about getting the personal version again (should be eligible) and start using it and/or the business version, but it'll take quite a bit of spend to build up the 94,000 miles I need (and I'm currently focusing on rebuilding my AMEX MR, especially at 5x on airfare purchases!).

I remain hopeful that Korean will align with either Citi or AMEX, so I can get them back into my "rotation."

 

57 minutes ago, bgtp said:

I did a two night layover in Singapore a while back and it was OK. Glad I did it, two nights was fine. Three would have been OK, too. I really miss the free layovers that most of the airlines used to allow on award travel. Over the years, I took advantage of all the layover/open jaw opportunities for some really good itineraries.
 

My itinerary really lends itself to a 2 day stopover, as I arrive at around 8:15 a.m., which pretty much gives me that entire day (even if I take a short nap) to look around and check out the sights. 

My SIN-BKK leg leaves at around 1:15 p.m., but I go to airports absurdly early, so I don't expect to do much on that day.  I could have opted for a later flight (giving me more time to see some stuff that day), but I preferred to get to BKK mid-afternoon instead of early evening.

Given the higher prices, I'm treating the Singapore stopover much more as a sightseeing opportunity, but I KNOW that I will mix in some P4P!  55555

[Luv2Phuket]

42 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

I have always been very happy with Korean, but, since they left Chase UR, I have no idea how to build miles there.  In fact, I had all but forgotten about them....and the 96,000+ miles that I have stashed there!  555

Any thoughts/plans on how to build Korean miles now that UR is out?

 

Found the answer to my question here:  https://millionmilesecrets.com/guides/now-korean-air-only-has-1-transfer-partner-and-no-plans-to-add-more/

As of last August, the only transfer partner for Korean was Marriott, at a 3:1 transfer rate (although it's really 1:2.4, as you get the 5,000 mile bonus -- 25,000 miles total -- when you transfer 60,000 Marriott points).

Given that Marriott moved SPG points in at 3:1 ratio, the 3:1 exchange rate for Korean is pretty much the same as the prior 1:1 with SPG.

Marriott is a transfer partner for Chase UR, but it is 1:1, so you're looking at 3 Chase UR for 1 Korean mile now (setting aside the 5k bonus) - NOT a good rate.  I might be missing something, but I could not find Marriott on the list of transfer partners for either Citi TY or AMEX MR.

I have a decent chunk of Marriott points (just over 200k), so cleaning out 180k would net me 75,000 Korean Skypass.  Plus, I am looking at adding more with a convention at a Marriott coming up in May (as well as pre-planning trip there in late February).  I'm REALLY bummed now that I agreed to let let the guy who set it all up claim the huge chunk of Marriott points that comes with our group stay!  5555

 

 

[fatjack1]

Wish I could figure out the best way to use my Chase UR points.  Seems as if using them for flights prevents you from also selecting ones seat in advance.  And some of the business class arrangements are 2-2-2 which means only the center seats have aisle access and no one climbing over you.

Maybe I'm missing something but I plan on flying one way from BKK to LAX in business around April 5 and all the airlines I can transfer these points into seem to be the same.  Guess they will assign you the last seat in business if you use points.  rather cash them in (I know the rate isn't quite as good) so I can control my travel arrangements.

 

[Luv2Phuket]

Just now, fatjack1 said:

Wish I could figure out the best way to use my Chase UR points.  Seems as if using them for flights prevents you from also selecting ones seat in advance.  And some of the business class arrangements are 2-2-2 which means only the center seats have aisle access and no one climbing over you.

Maybe I'm missing something but I plan on flying one way from BKK to LAX in business around April 5 and all the airlines I can transfer these points into seem to be the same.  Guess they will assign you the last seat in business if you use points.  rather cash them in (I know the rate isn't quite as good) so I can control my travel arrangements.

 

Are you referring to buying the ticket using Chase UR or transferring them to someone like United and using them for an award ticket?

I have no experience buying flights via the Chase UR portal; only with transferring and booking award travel.

If transferred to United and used for an award ticket, you should be able to ask United to give you that airline's booking reference number, then you should be able to select your seat via that airline's website.  That's how it worked with my upcoming trip using United for award travel on ANA, connecting to Thai (the Thai confirmation number allowed me to select my seats for both flights....at least I HOPE that it did!  5555)

[Little Evil]

Just now, Luv2Phuket said:

Found the answer to my question here:  https://millionmilesecrets.com/guides/now-korean-air-only-has-1-transfer-partner-and-no-plans-to-add-more/

As of last August, the only transfer partner for Korean was Marriott, at a 3:1 transfer rate (although it's really 1:2.4, as you get the 5,000 mile bonus -- 25,000 miles total -- when you transfer 60,000 Marriott points).

Given that Marriott moved SPG points in at 3:1 ratio, the 3:1 exchange rate for Korean is pretty much the same as the prior 1:1 with SPG.

Marriott is a transfer partner for Chase UR, but it is 1:1, so you're looking at 3 Chase UR for 1 Korean mile now (setting aside the 5k bonus) - NOT a good rate.  I might be missing something, but I could not find Marriott on the list of transfer partners for either Citi TY or AMEX MR.

I have a decent chunk of Marriott points (just over 200k), so cleaning out 180k would net me 75,000 Korean Skypass.  Plus, I am looking at adding more with a convention at a Marriott coming up in May (as well as pre-planning trip there in late February).  I'm REALLY bummed now that I agreed to let let the guy who set it all up claim the huge chunk of Marriott points that comes with our group stay!  5555

 

 

FFF*****K! I completely forgot about KE leaving UR. One less option. For a "points guy", I've been really off my game recently. I really should have put my remaining UR's in there, as I don't really use United anymore.

I read somewhere Virgin Atlantic might be an option for ANA. Something like 90k for US to Japan in biz, one way. Haven't tested those waters though. They also have Singapore as a partner, but unsurprisingly, Singapore doesn't offer premium seats for Virgin Atlantic partner points from the US. 

[fatjack1]

Just now, Luv2Phuket said:

Are you referring to buying the ticket using Chase UR or transferring them to someone like United and using them for an award ticket?

I have no experience buying flights via the Chase UR portal; only with transferring and booking award travel.

If transferred to United and used for an award ticket, you should be able to ask United to give you that airline's booking reference number, then you should be able to select your seat via that airline's website.  That's how it worked with my upcoming trip using United for award travel on ANA, connecting to Thai (the Thai confirmation number allowed me to select my seats for both flights....at least I HOPE that it did!  5555)

OK let me check.  Perhaps it was the Super Saver biz class that doesn't allow seat selection.  Or maybe I'm confused regarding which booking attempt I was working on.  I don't want United unless I can prebook a center seat.  if I can great.  Love to try the Dreamliner.  

 

[Luv2Phuket]

Just now, fatjack1 said:

OK let me check.  Perhaps it was the Super Saver biz class that doesn't allow seat selection.  Or maybe I'm confused regarding which booking attempt I was working on.  I don't want United unless I can prebook a center seat.  if I can great.  Love to try the Dreamliner.  

 

Good luck!  Let us know how it turns out

I'm with you on passing if I can't get my seat assigned for a long haul flight (assuming it's not a 1-2-1 layout) -- to me, that's effectively assuring that I will be stuck in a window seat!  55555

[fatjack1]

Just now, Luv2Phuket said:

Good luck!  Let us know how it turns out

I'm with you on passing if I can't get my seat assigned for a long haul flight (assuming it's not a 1-2-1 layout) -- to me, that's effectively assuring that I will be stuck in a window seat!  55555

OK I was on the United.com site doing a flight search for seats paid for with mileage.  Looking at one way biz class bak-lax.  Actually some of the miles required are fine.  90K.  For biz saver.  But all of the details say can't choose seat have to ask airport agent for seat assignment at gate.  Might just be a dumb thing as they don't want to get in the middle as most of the flights (all) for that requirement are star alliance partners.  Like Air China is #1.  Possible that after you get your ticket you can book your seat it just isn't showing how on the United site.

However, despite not liking arrival time in LAX and 5 hour layover in PEK I am tempted to use 140K miles for first class with Air China.  I't biz class Thai BKK-PEK which is OK for a shorter flight.  Then first class Air China to LAX.  In that case U don't care what seat as they are 1-2-1 in front of a 777.  

Need to go back and find out what EVA requires as I'll happily do 140K for their Royal whatsit class again.  Flew them for years and no issues.

Asiana seems booked for my dates.

 

 

[Little Evil]

Just now, fatjack1 said:

OK I was on the United.com site doing a flight search for seats paid for with mileage.  Looking at one way biz class bak-lax.  Actually some of the miles required are fine.  90K.  For biz saver.  But all of the details say can't choose seat have to ask airport agent for seat assignment at gate.  Might just be a dumb thing as they don't want to get in the middle as most of the flights (all) for that requirement are star alliance partners.  Like Air China is #1.  Possible that after you get your ticket you can book your seat it just isn't showing how on the United site.

However, despite not liking arrival time in LAX and 5 hour layover in PEK I am tempted to use 140K miles for first class with Air China.  I't biz class Thai BKK-PEK which is OK for a shorter flight.  Then first class Air China to LAX.  In that case U don't care what seat as they are 1-2-1 in front of a 777.  

Need to go back and find out what EVA requires as I'll happily do 140K for their Royal whatsit class again.  Flew them for years and no issues.

Asiana seems booked for my dates.

 

 

I think you should be able to get a record locator for Air China and book seat assignment from there. AA does this to me for CX. Just make sure they give you both the UA and Air China record locators. If it doesn't come over on the confirmation email, you might have to call UA for it. 

[fatjack1]

Just now, Little Evil said:

I think you should be able to get a record locator for Air China and book seat assignment from there. AA does this to me for CX. Just make sure they give you both the UA and Air China record locators. If it doesn't come over on the confirmation email, you might have to call UA for it. 

Doesn't matter too much if it's 1st class.  1-2-1 seating can't get a bad seat.  Never flown Air China so now I need o check their history and reviews.  I found an ongoing flight home to PHX late enough to use this flight if I so choose.  Might be coming together.

Or maybe I just sell my Chase miles and buy an Asiana ticket in biz class.  

Oh my.  Just checked Skytrax.  Air China gets horrendous reviews.  No way.  Rather pay a little more for Asiana or Cathay and KNOW I'm flying a good airline.  Pity Asiana and ANA don't show any open biz class award seats now.  Wonder if they ever do.

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by fatjack1

[Little Evil]

Just now, fatjack1 said:

Doesn't matter too much if it's 1st class.  1-2-1 seating can't get a bad seat.  Never flown Air China so now I need o check their history and reviews.  I found an ongoing flight home to PHX late enough to use this flight if I so choose.  Might be coming together.

Or maybe I just sell my Chase miles and buy an Asiana ticket in biz class.  

Oh my.  Just checked Skytrax.  Air China gets horrendous reviews.  No way.  Rather pay a little more for Asiana or Cathay and KNOW I'm flying a good airline.  Pity Asiana and ANA don't show any open biz class award seats now.  Wonder if they ever do.

 

You're going to run into that a lot with booking partner airlines, but once you have the record locator you can go on the award flight operator's website and manage your trip (seat) from there. Still worth checking out even in F. I don't like being near the galley in CX's 777, so I like the rear row on the single aisle side if available. 

[Luv2Phuket]

45 minutes ago, fatjack1 said:

Doesn't matter too much if it's 1st class.  1-2-1 seating can't get a bad seat.  Never flown Air China so now I need o check their history and reviews.  I found an ongoing flight home to PHX late enough to use this flight if I so choose.  Might be coming together.

Or maybe I just sell my Chase miles and buy an Asiana ticket in biz class.  

Oh my.  Just checked Skytrax.  Air China gets horrendous reviews.  No way.  Rather pay a little more for Asiana or Cathay and KNOW I'm flying a good airline.  Pity Asiana and ANA don't show any open biz class award seats now.  Wonder if they ever do.

 

I have NO experience with Air China, but based on what I have read in reviews, etc., I never even consider booking them for award travel.  

That said, if you decide to check them out, I would get the Thai Air record locator and see if that will allow you to book seats all of the way through.  As noted above, I booked a Saver award via United for travel on ANA (LAX-HND) and Thai (HND-BKK) in February, and I was able to book seats for both legs via Thai's website using their record locator.

EVA seems to open up late, so may be worth checking back for them as the trip gets closer (assuming you don't shell out the cash for a non-refundable ticket).

[Short]

Just got back.   Flew ORD to HK and BKK on CX.    Couldn't get CX to cough up a BKK to HK leg so took HKAir and them AA from HK to DFW.

The food on CX was only a little better than last year.   AA completely wacked CX.   The food was better, the seats were newer and in better condition and on top of that AA provided sleeping pads to every business class seat.    And get this, the staff was younger and friendlier.  Not a simple staffer was over the age of 30 in business class.   I don't see the back sections but believe the situation was the same.   The staff laid out treats in the galley and invited passengers to treat themselves at any time, but they would also answer the FA button with a smile.  It seems that both CX and AA staff are required to bring drinks to your seat rather than letting you carry them yourself.

Now there is one caveat to the young AA staff.  I asked about this what had happened is that the regular staff had exceeded their travel time and so this particular group had been on standby and got sent to HK at the last minute. 

[Czmate]

17 hours ago, Short said:

Just got back.   Flew ORD to HK and BKK on CX.    Couldn't get CX to cough up a BKK to HK leg so took HKAir and them AA from HK to DFW.

The food on CX was only a little better than last year.   AA completely wacked CX.   The food was better, the seats were newer and in better condition and on top of that AA provided sleeping pads to every business class seat.    And get this, the staff was younger and friendlier.  Not a simple staffer was over the age of 30 in business class.   I don't see the back sections but believe the situation was the same.   The staff laid out treats in the galley and invited passengers to treat themselves at any time, but they would also answer the FA button with a smile.  It seems that both CX and AA staff are required to bring drinks to your seat rather than letting you carry them yourself.

Now there is one caveat to the young AA staff.  I asked about this what had happened is that the regular staff had exceeded their travel time and so this particular group had been on standby and got sent to HK at the last minute. 

Just on that same flight and Cathay really sucks want to change to the connection instead of a layover till the next morning to Bkk by downgrading but nobody in ORD can handle the change and nobody answers the reservation line even after holding 20 minutes first and last time I fly with them.

Really piss poor airline and service nowt special stingy never asking if you want a drink after the first one.

[Little Evil]

20 hours ago, Short said:

Just got back.   Flew ORD to HK and BKK on CX.    Couldn't get CX to cough up a BKK to HK leg so took HKAir and them AA from HK to DFW.

The food on CX was only a little better than last year.   AA completely wacked CX.   The food was better, the seats were newer and in better condition and on top of that AA provided sleeping pads to every business class seat.    And get this, the staff was younger and friendlier.  Not a simple staffer was over the age of 30 in business class.   I don't see the back sections but believe the situation was the same.   The staff laid out treats in the galley and invited passengers to treat themselves at any time, but they would also answer the FA button with a smile.  It seems that both CX and AA staff are required to bring drinks to your seat rather than letting you carry them yourself.

Now there is one caveat to the young AA staff.  I asked about this what had happened is that the regular staff had exceeded their travel time and so this particular group had been on standby and got sent to HK at the last minute. 

AA really did surprise me last trip from HKG. They were much better than I remember, and an honest to god contender for long haul consideration.

I somehow managed to pull of AA gold before the end of the year. I think it was from the CX re-routing that took me from CX PE to AA J. I think I actually got J credit for the paid PE itinerary. I realize gold is the end of the food chain as far as AA goes. Any actual perks that I'll notice from that entry status?

 

[Luv2Phuket]

26 minutes ago, Little Evil said:

Any actual perks that I'll notice from that entry status?

 

Think the biggest ones are:

 - 1 free checked bag (but you can get that with a variety of credit cards)

 - I think you get premium boarding (possibly Group 4, but that comes with cc, too)

 - free Main Cabin Extra seating at check-in (big advantage of Platinum is that I get Main Cabin Extra for free when I book)

 - 24-hour window on upgrades (no idea what that means, as the upgrade list is always a mile long on my flights when I get to the gate and I think just about anyone below Executive Platinum stands a shitty chance!)

I just booked 3 flights in the last 2 days that will pretty much net me Gold for next year (2 LAX-Hawaii and 1 to DFW).  Now I gotta find another 25,000 miles to keep my Platinum status....

[Luv2Phuket]

Looks like Capital One has joined the airline mile transfer fray - 
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2019/01/04/how-to-turn-capital-ones-new-miles-transfer-option-into-great-trips/

While slightly intriguing, the only program on here that interest me is Singapore, and they're already a transfer partner for Chase UR, Citi TY and AMEX MR....seriously, is there ANYONE who Singapore will not partner with?!?  555

50,000 point bonus isn't bad, but I think the transfer ratio is 2 Capital One points for 1 KrisFlyer mile.  That immediately drops the 50,000 bonus points to 25,000 miles.  Also, the "2X points on spend" becomes a wash, because all of the other programs have a 1:1 ratio with Singapore. 

Don't know that I want to waste an application on that (although the fact that I have nothing with Capital One may eventually lead me to try to get it).  Think I'm better off waiting for a increased Chase Sapphire Reserve (which I have yet to get) opportunity.

 

[Ronniecage]

Omg, what a 2019 for miles has been so far! 

I just scored a first class Emirates ticket from Kuala Lampur to  Dubai for $1,020 !!!!

on a A380, so I will be able finally take a shower in the sky .... epic ! 

Thanks to One Mile at A Time !! He is really on top of things over there..... 

last week I scored a RT biz class ticket from Hanoi to JFK on Cathay pacific for $800!!!!

I didn’t know I could get first class for $1,000 because I booked so quickly after reading the first update from OMAAT. 

But today getting Emirates first on an A380 for $1,000 surely made up for it !!! Wow..... it’s better than Christmas! 

I have flown CX first multiple times before so I am not too bummed anymore ;) And I rate SG first over CX first anyways ..... now I will be able to try Emirates first class “bling class” ....

I depart for Dubai this weekend.... going to get a cheap one way ticket to Kuala Lampur ;)

 

Did anyone else manage to capitalize on these incredible deals that have taken place so far in 2019.....

 

Too bad I missed out when Qatar had the mistake biz fare from Vietnam a couple years ago , but 2019 has definitely made up for it !

 

 

Iluvphuket, have you flown SG biz or first yet ? What did u think ? ;)  I love SG biz and first bro .... 

I recently booked and flew CX premium economy class for 37,000 Alaska airline miles from HKG to JFK........ I highly recommend CX premium economy if u are on a budget !!!

[Little Evil]

On 05/01/2019 at 13:26, Luv2Phuket said:

Looks like Capital One has joined the airline mile transfer fray - 
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2019/01/04/how-to-turn-capital-ones-new-miles-transfer-option-into-great-trips/

While slightly intriguing, the only program on here that interest me is Singapore, and they're already a transfer partner for Chase UR, Citi TY and AMEX MR....seriously, is there ANYONE who Singapore will not partner with?!?  555

50,000 point bonus isn't bad, but I think the transfer ratio is 2 Capital One points for 1 KrisFlyer mile.  That immediately drops the 50,000 bonus points to 25,000 miles.  Also, the "2X points on spend" becomes a wash, because all of the other programs have a 1:1 ratio with Singapore. 

Don't know that I want to waste an application on that (although the fact that I have nothing with Capital One may eventually lead me to try to get it).  Think I'm better off waiting for a increased Chase Sapphire Reserve (which I have yet to get) opportunity.

 

Hmmm....2 points per dollar, 2:1.5 on Asia miles = 1.5 Asia Miles a dollar on all spend? Not that I love that program or anything, but I have a vested interest in it at the moment and I like the sound of bonus points on spend that would otherwise only get 1 point/dollar. 

Just got the Asia Miles credit card with available 65k points bonus. My strategy was go use it for my tax bill, but the underwriter only gave me a $6k limit.  lol. Not getting that far on that tax bill with only $6k. Not sure of the logic, as I not only have a 800 credit score, but all my other cards are at the minimum 3 times that limit. Maybe because this is a Chinese bank and not a US bank? 

[Luv2Phuket]

48 minutes ago, Little Evil said:

Hmmm....2 points per dollar, 2:1.5 on Asia miles = 1.5 Asia Miles a dollar on all spend? Not that I love that program or anything, but I have a vested interest in it at the moment and I like the sound of bonus points on spend that would otherwise only get 1 point/dollar. 

Just got the Asia Miles credit card with available 65k points bonus. My strategy was go use it for my tax bill, but the underwriter only gave me a $6k limit.  lol. Not getting that far on that tax bill with only $6k. Not sure of the logic, as I not only have a 800 credit score, but all my other cards are at the minimum 3 times that limit. Maybe because this is a Chinese bank and not a US bank? 

Yes - 1.5 Asia Miles per USD spent, given the 2 points per USD.  That is a slight bonus over AMEX MR and Citi TY, which transfer to Asia Miles at a 1:1 ratio.

The 50,000 bonus points would equate to 33,333 Asia Miles.

I am pretty sure that I have split my credit card tax payments over multiple cards in years past.  I know that I did CA taxes and Federal taxes on different cards.  Pretty sure that I did estimated taxes on a card, as well.

I thought Asia Miles had bad rates for long haul flights.  Have you found a good use for them?

[Little Evil]

50 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Yes - 1.5 Asia Miles per USD spent, given the 2 points per USD.  That is a slight bonus over AMEX MR and Citi TY, which transfer to Asia Miles at a 1:1 ratio.

The 50,000 bonus points would equate to 33,333 Asia Miles.

I am pretty sure that I have split my credit card tax payments over multiple cards in years past.  I know that I did CA taxes and Federal taxes on different cards.  Pretty sure that I did estimated taxes on a card, as well.

I thought Asia Miles had bad rates for long haul flights.  Have you found a good use for them?

Their rates are indeed terrible. My vested interest is just because I had some stranded miles that were then padded when I complained about a fairly serious problem with a paid itinerary and they kicked me 15k for the trouble. All in all, these miles brought the requirement down to what I would consider competitive levels, so between the credit card bonus and an Amex transfer, it made sense. I would otherwise not use this program for anything other than upgrades from paid PE to J.