r sound in Thai

[Kahoy]

They speak a dialect (variation) of Thai.

 

Lao is a related language but it is not Thai and even has it's own alphabet.

 

The R sound is directly related to education levels. You won't hear a well spoken Thai pronounce R as L unless perhaps with close friends.

 

A couple of years ago I was in Starbucks in Central Mall and thanked the barista in Thai with "krup" pronounced properly and he replied the same way without hesitation. He would have been too embarrassed to use L.

 

They tend to start pronouncing R (raw reuah - a boat) as L when they start to use guu and meung instead of Koon and Phom (or Chun) as pronouns.

[Tarl]

They speak a dialect (variation) of Thai.

Yeah sort of from what I can gather. Others who know the Isan language would know better than me. Where I am it is a mixture of Thai and Laos with some of their own words which are neither thai or laos.

 

Apologies in an earlier post I said rian was hian in isan. Girlfriend tells me I am wrong. A school in thai is rong rian, in isan ( where I am) it is hong hian, study in thai is rian, in isan it is lian. I asked why is it h in school but L in study. Her asnwer is that it just is.

[Tarl]

Lao is a related language but it is not Thai and even has it's own alphabet.

 

The R sound is directly related to education levels. You won't hear a well spoken Thai pronounce R as L unless perhaps with close friends.

 

A couple of years ago I was in Starbucks in Central Mall and thanked the barista in Thai with "krup" pronounced properly and he replied the same way without hesitation. He would have been too embarrassed to use L.

 

They tend to start pronouncing R (raw reuah - a boat) as L when they start to use guu and meung instead of Koon and Phom (or Chun) as pronouns.

Just for interest sake Koon here is Jao and Phom is Koy.

[Kahoy]

Just for interest sake Koon here is Jao and Phom is Koy.

 

IIRC, there are about 5 sets of pronouns in Thai depending on who you are speaking to, like royalty or a sibling. Ter is used instead of Koon for intimates.

[Tarl]

IIRC, there are about 5 sets of pronouns in Thai depending on who you are speaking to, like royalty or a sibling. Ter is used instead of Koon for intimates.

You defintely know heaps more than me mate I just pick things up from listening to locals in a local situation. Doesn't surprise me they have so many pronouns.

[Kahoy]

You defintely know heaps more than me mate I just pick things up from listening to locals in a local situation. Doesn't surprise me they have so many pronouns.

 

A black book called "Fundamentals of the Thai Language" was my bible when I learnt.  

 

"chun ruk ter" instead of "phom ruk koon", even for a male speaking to a girl.

[hioctane]

 

 

Yeah sort of from what I can gather. Others who know the Isan language would know better than me. Where I am it is a mixture of Thai and Laos with some of their own words which are neither thai or laos.

 

Apologies in an earlier post I said rian was hian in isan. Girlfriend tells me I am wrong. A school in thai is rong rian, in isan ( where I am) it is hong hian, study in thai is rian, in isan it is lian. I asked why is it h in school but L in study. Her asnwer is that it just is.

Isan borders Laos. It is no doubt that they would speak a hybrid of Laos and Thai.

[Tarl]

Isan borders Laos. It is no doubt that they would speak a hybrid of Laos and Thai.

Think it also borders Cambodia so if it does they would have a different hybrid there possibly.

[hioctane]

Think it also borders Cambodia so if it does they would have a different hybrid there possibly.

Yep. They speak Northern Khmer... a dialect of Cambodia.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Khmer_dialect

 

Pretty interesting stuff. I was never a history buff but it is cool to see how languages spread and change..

[bobSL1]

Agree with Kahoy...Educated can say R - poor folk use L...to all those who think they can pronounce R - get em to say Rolls Royce.....if they pass then say Vampire....have fun ....

[hioctane]

Agree with Kahoy...Educated can say R - poor folk use L...to all those who think they can pronounce R - get em to say Rolls Royce.....if they pass then say Vampire....have fun ....

I don't think it is a matter of rich/poor or educated/uneducated. It is based on where they are from. It just so happens that most of the richer are from Bangkok. If you are richer, you tend to be more educated.

[ekku]

Standard Thai, also known as Central Thai or Siamese, is the official language of Thailand, spoken by about 25 million people (1990) including speakers of Bangkok Thai (although the latter is sometimes considered as a separate dialect).

 

Isan (Northeastern Thai), the language of the Isan region of Thailand, is considered by some to be a dialect of the Lao language, which it very closely resembles (although it is written in the Thai alphabet). It is spoken by about 15 million people (1983).

 

http://www.101languages.net/thai/dialects.html

 

Don't believe everything you see on websites! If you ever feel like learning the Isan language, you'll soon figure out that you can't write it with the Thai alphabet. Here's an example. tourist in Thai: นักท่องเที่ยว and tourist in Isan: นักทองเทียว but the first syllable is written in Thai (high tone) because there's no way you could write it in Isaan (middle tone) 

 

So what I've seen a lot is that Isan people write their own language in Thai because there is no writing system for Isan. They'd write tourist as นักท่องเที่ยว but pronounce it in their own funny way. Of course you can try to write the Isan pronunciation for them and see how they're amused. เขียนภ้าษาไท้ยได้บอ

 

 

I was meaning the Isan peoples own languange.

 

Strangely yes the "r" is a h in some of their words as you say like rian (study) in thai is spoken with a rolling r but when spoken in isan is with a h. No idea why sometimes the R becomes a H but it more often is pronounced as an L.

If you hear the L sound when they speak Isan then it's probably the L sound in Thai too. (ล)

 

R in Thai, H in Isaan .. isn't that called some kind of a shift? The tones shift too.

[Tarl]

Don't believe everything you see on websites! If you ever feel like learning the Isan language, you'll soon figure out that you can't write it with the Thai alphabet. Here's an example. tourist in Thai: นักท่องเที่ยว and tourist in Isan: นักทองเทียว but the first syllable is written in Thai (high tone) because there's no way you could write it in Isaan (middle tone) 

 

So what I've seen a lot is that Isan people write their own language in Thai because there is no writing system for Isan. They'd write tourist as นักท่องเที่ยว but pronounce it in their own funny way. Of course you can try to write the Isan pronunciation for them and see how they're amused. เขียนภ้าษาไท้ยได้บอ

 

 

 

If you hear the L sound when they speak Isan then it's probably the L sound in Thai too. (ล)

 

R in Thai, H in Isaan .. isn't that called some kind of a shift? The tones shift too.

Not sure about the shift but tones are different for sure.

 

Is interesting, as you say Isan is purely a oral language. They write it in thai but just know how to pronounce it properly in Isan.

 

Not sure I would agree on the r and l being the same in thai. My girl clearly pronounce ron (hot) when talking to bangkokians but clearly says lon when back in Isan.

[ekku]

Not sure about the shift but tones are different for sure.

 

Is interesting, as you say Isan is purely a oral language. They write it in thai but just know how to pronounce it properly in Isan.

 

Not sure I would agree on the r and l being the same in thai. My girl clearly pronounce ron (hot) when talking to bangkokians but clearly says lon when back in Isan.

Your girl was not speaking Isan. It's ฮ้อน in Isan. I understand the 'r' sound makes you sound more formal. You would also pronounce the 'r' when you try to speak very clearly. With close friends there's no need for that.

 

I don't know what you mean by an "oral language" but you can say it's not an official language in any country. You don't study in Isan or file your tax reports in Isan. So there isn't really any need or motivation for anyone to invent a writing system for Isan. You get close enough by approximating it with the Thai alphabet.

 

I just thought of another example of what you cannot write in Thai. Some Isan dialects have 6 tones. You can only write 5 with the Thai alphabet. Lao might be more suitable but that alphabet is used in another country so Isaan speakers don't learn it. 

[Tarl]

Your girl was not speaking Isan. It's ฮ้อน in Isan. I understand the 'r' sound makes you sound more formal. You would also pronounce the 'r' when you try to speak very clearly. With close friends there's no need for that.

 

I don't know what you mean by an "oral language" but you can say it's not an official language in any country. You don't study in Isan or file your tax reports in Isan. So there isn't really any need or motivation for anyone to invent a writing system for Isan. You get close enough by approximating it with the Thai alphabet.

 

I just thought of another example of what you cannot write in Thai. Some Isan dialects have 6 tones. You can only write 5 with the Thai alphabet. Lao might be more suitable but that alphabet is used in another country so Isaan speakers don't learn it.

 

Think we will have to agree to disagree

[ekku]

Yeah sort of from what I can gather. Others who know the Isan language would know better than me. Where I am it is a mixture of Thai and Laos with some of their own words which are neither thai or laos.

 

Apologies in an earlier post I said rian was hian in isan. Girlfriend tells me I am wrong. A school in thai is rong rian, in isan ( where I am) it is hong hian, study in thai is rian, in isan it is lian. I asked why is it h in school but L in study. Her asnwer is that it just is.

 

 I have a CD ROM and a book about speaking Isaan Thai:

 

http://www.learnspeakthai.com/book/6/speak-isaan-thai-volume-1

 

According to this book, your girlfriend is wrong. ... or should we believe her instead of this book? There's a clip about learning Isaan where the verb is clearly pronounce as "hian" and the subtitles clearly second that pronunciation.

 

Think we will have to agree to disagree

About what??? Or is this how you say that you won't believe me no matter what? Because you know better? 

 

I suggest you get a second opinion from a different native speaker. Maybe your girl speaks some exotic variant of that language.

[Tarl]

I have a CD ROM and a book about speaking Isaan Thai:

 

http://www.learnspeakthai.com/book/6/speak-isaan-thai-volume-1

 

According to this book, your girlfriend is wrong. ... or should we believe her instead of this book? There's a clip about learning Isaan where the verb is clearly pronounce as "hian" and the subtitles clearly second that pronunciation.

 

 

About what??? Or is this how you say that you won't believe me no matter what? Because you know better? 

 

I suggest you get a second opinion from a different native speaker. Maybe your girl speaks some exotic variant of that language.

I have the same book and cd rom is really good and only slightly different to the dialect where I live.

 

We agree and disagree on a few things. I would disagree on things like R being pronounced as an R and not an L by Isan people and on their being 6 tones which is Laos not Isan. But it is all good. Yes I do go by the locals where I am and others from Ubon ( they tell me the book is their dialect, no idea if it is but just what they say. They do pronounce 'what' distinctly different like the cd does than how it is pronounced here.

 

I certtanly wouldn't get into a board fight over their language or dialects but more than happy to discuss my experiences and what I have found.

 

Even happier to do it over beers.

[ekku]

Alright, I can't say I have much experience speaking Isaan with Isaan speakers because I don't live there. They tend to switch to Thai every now and then when I'm around. 

 

Um... I don't know if R is pronounced as R by Isaan people (unless maybe it's a special occasion??) but native Thai speakers use both L and R although I never hear that R rolled in a casual conversation. Well, unless they want to spell words for me. 

 

I've tried to figure out the 6th tone without much success but to me that it exists just means that there are differences in the Isan dialects. There is no official Isan language, either. 

 

What? nyaang? ee-nyaang-ko? I've heard a few different ways to say that too. That word is not so different in Northern Thai. They somehow don't really spell it well in the book.

 

So is that Ubon dialect the mainstream Isan language? I've never been there but I've met a few Ubon ladies here. Never spoke Isaan with them.

[Tarl]

Don't think there is any mainstream Isan language but who knows, it seems to be slightly different depending where you are. I have heard some which has a khmer influence, some with Laos influence and some I have no idea of such as Nakon Phanom which I can't follow at all.

 

What when spoken by Ubon people is clearly enyaang, where I am it is just eyaang. One of the things I find interesting is my girl generally knows where a person is from by their language much like we can often tell by a person's accent.

 

Did you get both books and cds? How are you going with them? I never bought the 2nd one but am keen to very soon.