Death Of Brit In Soi Lengkee

[6853395]

So it is the fault of the foreinger? 

 

It surprises me how some are simply unable to comprehend what's written in prior posts, and unable to put written statements into the proper context.

 

A similar question was asked, and answered, above, so I'll simply refer you to the post -- http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/284821-death-of-brit-in-soi-lengki/?p=3398689

 

For you additional convenience, since you don't appear to take the time to read all of the history of this thread, I'm appending a screenshot below:

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Your points are good ones for visitors to follow but it would be much safer if you added bullet proof vest. 

 

I think you need to draw up a play list for Thais too. 

 

Anytime you have loads of drunks and prostitution the safety meter goes amuck. 

 

Each of the above are unsubstantiated responses and lack any intellectual basis whatsoever.

 

First off, the probability of being struck by lighting in your lifetime (about one in 12,000) is significantly higher than than any chance of being murdered on your next leisure trip to Pattaya.

 

Murder does not just simply transpire as an ongoing common occurrence, especially when exercising common sense, and avoiding stupidity and idiocy.

 

I've reviewed murder rates by country, and while the USA is one of the highest with a probability of one in 19,500, comparing most of the countries I've looked at, Thailand remains far below the international average.

 

Here is an article, one of many, describing how low the murder rate is in Pattaya:

 

Thailand’s murder rate

 

http://pattayatoday.net/features/snap-judgment/thailand%E2%80%99s-murder-rate/

 

Unless you can cite some actual statistics or data, your unsubstantiated proclamation here lacks merit.

 

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"Contrary to what you might think when watching cable TV or perusing the more sensational online media, you have a low chance of being murdered in the Land of Smiles. A new report by the United Nations does not even include any Asian country in the top 20; Thailand isn’t even in the top 100."

 

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"And so what about Pattaya? It’s a comparatively safe place, to be sure, and most murders here are committed by Thais on Thais. When it comes to foreigners, a study of media reports suggests that the most common reason for being dispatched is that somebody wants your wealth or you have made enemies, perhaps in the world of drug trafficking. But most farang deaths in Pattaya are neither murders nor suicides. In the older population the reason is lifestyle disease such as cancer or heart attacks, while the trend setter amongst the young is a nasty road accident, usually involving a motorbike.

 

If all that comes as a bit of a surprise, remember that the media are all about the unusual and the sensational rather than the typical and the commonplace."

[6853395]

A little more about safe traveling practices and some precautionary measures regarding this thread.

 

First off, what happened here is both tragic and unfortunate.  With the exception of self-defense, it's never a fault when being murdered.  As some someone who's served on jury duty several times, both civil and criminal cases, including a murder trial, in order to hold someone accountable for murder, the prosecution must prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt.  

 

I did talk to a friend who's been following this case a little more closely, and while some additional information has been gathered outside of the OP's article, there's still a lot that we don't know, or has yet to be released by the officials.

 

However, here are some thoughts that came to my mind in general:

 

I'm quite familiar with Soi Chaiyphum, walk up and down the road often, and find it to be safe street for pedestrians, beer bars, massage venues, etc.

 

With respect to hotels in Pattaya, it has always been my criteria to stay in a safe hotel with both security and desk documentation procedures.  My hotelkeeps  well-managed, has a nice swimming pool, and has a well-managed staff, and I feel safe in my hotel because the desk staff keeps accurate up-to-date records of our information, copies of our passport and pending tourist visa, guests must sign in at the desk, leaving their ID's, and copies of ID's are left on file.  All my guests must be cleared by security before entering my room, mostly girls, but with other guests as well.

 

Personally, I would not feel safe staying on a low-budget hotel on Soi Chaiyaphum.  There are some very low room rates, but security does not seem to be a common practice, as described above where.  Something to consider when booking your Pattaya hotel with respect to safety.

 

Here are a couple of the things we do know about the incident at hand:

 

1) There were three ladyboys in the room

 

2) Methamphetamine was present

 

If this were my hotel, there would not be three ladyboys in my room until I cleared them with the front desk, each of them left their ID's, which would also be photocopied at the desk, and I'd probably have to pay for each Thai guest beyond one, usually an addiitonal 200 baht fee (commonly assessed with threesomes).  Hence, both the desk and security staff would be aware of the four of us in my room.  

 

If any of the guests attempted to leave without me present, I would be called to confirm that everything was okay, or their ID's would not be returned to them.  If I was unable to answer the phone, or something worse, the police would likely be called.  Meanwhile, the ID's would be with the desk staff, and records would remain on file regardless.

 

Back to Soi Chaiyaphum, it also appears that the three ladyboys came from a nearby Soi Chaiyaphum bar, in which the mamasan was involved as well.

 

From what little is known, at this point, it appears to be a drug deal that went bad.

 

Also known, or assumed, is that an incident occurred on the second floor, the British man ran upstairs to the third floor, possibly being chased, and fell from a third floor balcony to his death.

 

I don't know if there was methamphetamine in his system or not,  Perhaps if there's any information on that, autopsy, or something, please feel free to share.  Until, or unless, this is confirmed, another speculation is that the British man had methamphetamine in his system.

 

Again, we don't know what happened, but we do know that people high on methamphetamine do irrational things, it creates paranoia, and people have been known to do far more extreme things when on methamphetamine, and in many cases, have led to death.  For more information on this, there's an excellent Netflix documentary about methamphetamine -- https://www.google.com/#q=methamphetamine+documentary+on+netflix-- which even includes a section on methamphetamine in Thailand.

   

While some have commented on this death as being more about idiocy vs. fault, getting to the common sense measures of staying safe, it's probably not a good idea to stay in a cheap hotel without adequate security, associate with users, use, or be involved with methamphetamine, during your visit to Thailand.

 

Again, tragic and unfortunate incident, but no one should worry about their next trip to Pattaya being their last, simply based on this, and similar, news reports (see previous post regarding murder in Pattaya).

 

 

You talk about respect
Maybe practice what you preach
A young chap has just lost his life

 

I'm going to take a moment to respond to this quote-reply directed towards my common sense key safety points.

 

First off, this thread was about a news article, and my comment reply specifically, was to directed in response to ProudAussie's comment about mis-characterizing Pattaya as a dangerous place whereby you never know if your next trip will be your last.  I explained there, and elaborated in this thread, about both the safety situation in Pattaya, as well as exercising common sense to avoid all types of trouble, including those which are benign, in comparison, to death.

 

The comments are by no means disrespectful to anyone whatsoever.  My initial comment, was in response to ProudAssie's, statment, not the news article.  Even if I did respond to the news article, it's just that, a news article, and not directed towards the victim or the victim's family.  So, if you think that by responding to a fellow BM's comment, clarifying the situation with respect to proactive safety measures, and advising other members to be safe is being disrespectful, again, you appear to be unable to both comprehend what's being said, and/or taking such matters out of context.

 

I've been traveling to Thailand, and all over SE Asia since 2003, I've studied Thai language, culture, and history at Chulalongkarn University, I've seen a lot of things, including violent escalations, including Thai-on-Thai, Thai-on-foreigner, and some extremely vulgar and dangerous encounters.  However, I have never had a single problem in all my years of travel, as well as living there as a student.  I can easily identify problem individuals, especially foreigners, and I know how to avoid such interaction.  As for Thais, I have absolutely no worries about having any issues or problems with them.  I have certainly seen many foreigners having altercations with Thais, but in every case, the situation could have been avoided, simply respecting both the individual(s) and their culture.

 

Remember, we are, and always will be, a guest in a foreign country.

 

Thailand, including Pattaya, is not a dangerous place if you simply adhere to the basics of civility.

[vimto66]

He's got a British passport, but with a name like that not British. 

No surprise there then. 

[Merdan]

he probability of being murdered is about one in 19,500 per year, and that goes even lower for those who take common sense precautions. 

[6853395]

Let's not forget the fact that  methamphetamine was involved, and it's common to have hallucinations, run for unknown reasons, and do irrational things.

[gimmesum]

It surprises me how some are simply unable to comprehend what's written in prior posts, and unable to put written statements into the proper context.

 

A similar question was asked, and answered, above, so I'll simply refer you to the post -- http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/284821-death-of-brit-in-soi-lengki/?p=3398689

 

For you additional convenience, since you don't appear to take the time to read all of the history of this thread, I'm appending a screenshot below:

-------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Each of the above are unsubstantiated responses and lack any intellectual basis whatsoever.

 

First off, the probability of being struck by lighting in your lifetime (about one in 12,000) is significantly higher than than any chance of being murdered on your next leisure trip to Pattaya.

 

Murder does not just simply transpire as an ongoing common occurrence, especially when exercising common sense, and avoiding stupidity and idiocy.

 

I've reviewed murder rates by country, and while the USA is one of the highest with a probability of one in 19,500, comparing most of the countries I've looked at, Thailand remains far below the international average.

 

Here is an article, one of many, describing how low the murder rate is in Pattaya:

 

Thailand’s murder rate

 

http://pattayatoday.net/features/snap-judgment/thailand%E2%80%99s-murder-rate/

 

Unless you can cite some actual statistics or data, your unsubstantiated proclamation here lacks merit.

 

--------------------------------------

 

"Contrary to what you might think when watching cable TV or perusing the more sensational online media, you have a low chance of being murdered in the Land of Smiles. A new report by the United Nations does not even include any Asian country in the top 20; Thailand isn’t even in the top 100."

 

--------------------

 

"And so what about Pattaya? It’s a comparatively safe place, to be sure, and most murders here are committed by Thais on Thais. When it comes to foreigners, a study of media reports suggests that the most common reason for being dispatched is that somebody wants your wealth or you have made enemies, perhaps in the world of drug trafficking. But most farang deaths in Pattaya are neither murders nor suicides. In the older population the reason is lifestyle disease such as cancer or heart attacks, while the trend setter amongst the young is a nasty road accident, usually involving a motorbike.

 

If all that comes as a bit of a surprise, remember that the media are all about the unusual and the sensational rather than the typical and the commonplace

 

 

You seem to be quite defensive.  I guess that happens when one presents a weak argument.  Pattaya is not a safe place.  Chicago is not safe.  London is not safe. Madrid is not safe. Wake up.  Visitors need to take precautions and be wary partcularly whenever you have loads of drunks, prostitutes, yaba, unregulated traffic, etc. you are going to have increased risks.  Better to recommend caution than to make blanket statements about safety you frankly know little or nothing about and based on personal observations which are completely irrelevant in this case.

[Atlas]

I feel safer walking around Pattaya at 3am than I would in Brisbane Australia that's for sure.

[6853395]

Pattaya is not a safe place. Chicago is not safe. London is not safe. Madrid is not safe.

These are blanket statements.

 

Visitors need to take precautions and be wary

That's what I have been saying, along with detailed substantiation upon how to take such precautions and be on alert to minimize risk. My post history on both this thread, and beyond, substatistes this with both documented facts, data, and sources.

 

I don't believe anyone on this forum takes health and safety more seriously than myself, including substantiated measures with respect to transportation, sex, sickness, and avoiding violence by any means.

 

partcularly whenever you have loads of drunks, prostitutes, yaba, unregulated traffic, etc. you are going to have increased risks.

This is also a blanket statement.

 

Everything is about risk assessment in consolidation with factual data. You haven't provided any facts or substantiation to support any level of risk, what the degrees of risk are, etc. Is it possible that one who takes adequate precautions and stays alert may be murdered in Pattaya, Chicago, London, or Madrid? The answer to this question is yes, it is possible, albeit highly unlikely, and with extremely low probabilities.

 

Whether or not you wish to educate yourself on the facts and compile risk statistics on this matter is up to you. There's a reason why insurance companies employ actuarial scientists and why research, academic publications, reports and studies are based upon extensive analysis of compiled data. Some of us here, on this board, do this for a living.

 

If you wish to believe that your personal risk is high, that Pattaya, or anywhere else for that matter, is a dangerous environment, you may believe whatever you Desire. Based upon your blanket statements, with little-to-no substantian, you're fear-mongering, disseminating mis-information, and putting your ignorance on public display.

 

When I write and provide information on this board, it's primarily to share with the community as a whole, provide helpful advice and information with respect to optimizing ones travels, and the readers, as individuals, may judge for themselves the merits of what's presented. I've been on this board a very long time, and so long as I continue to receive positive feedback, appreciation, develop friendships, and have people tell me they appreciate my posts and contributions, I'll continue to do so, as I value these personal relationships, whether informally online, or board members requests to meet with me in person.

 

There's a lot of ignorance on this board and education is something one does to better themselves and increase their knowledge to enrich and better their own lives. As for this topic at hand, I conduct extensive research on this, as well as many other diverse topics, to enrich my own knowledge and I'm happy to share with those who take interest. Whether it comes to news, politics, or any other topic, I'm happy to have an intellectual discussion upon philosophical disagreements. However, when compiling the information, I know what's going on, I know what the facts are, and I know what the truth is, and these components, including data, facts, truth, and established science, are not debatable.

 

It's comes to a point where it is not a high priority of mine to clarify one's ignorance.

[banjen]

RIP

[dogday]

im with Atlas on this one, try walking home from Carlisle on a friday night!  its WAY rougher !  Pattaya does have a lot of wanna-be hard-men, general low-lifes and pure scum BUT they dont seem to bother me (in-fact, the only time ive had aggro was off some wasted thai chick) 

 

 

 

d

[amyreyna]

RIP

When your packing your bags you never think this could be your last trip..

 

Agree, when traveling alone should be prepare for anything.

 

RIP for the Brith guy...still 28