First black leader or the oldest President?

[Khunsingha]

Personally I hope Obama wins - I think it would be a BIG thing for the US to have a black president. Yes lots of people wouldn't like that, but hey, the same people got used to hippies, the pill, losing Vietnam and 'family values' (whose values, I wonder?) etc etc. They'll get over it.

 

A black president, without doing anything, could boost the morale of many blacks / coloureds and might shut up the victim types ('oh, we never get a break, the evil white is always against us'). I think it would be a true change that would have a great impact.

 

I'm not familiar with Barack's or McCains' qualities. But both should do a lot better than Bush.

 

 

I agree 100%.

[cariden]

sorry somehow i double posted... these newfangled technology things really mess up us old folks.

Edited August 6, 2008 by cariden

[cariden]

i believe that bush stole the election by doing two things last time. so many states had a amendment up for vote about gay marriages.<conservatives hate gays nowadays> more than they hate minorities. Karl Rove engineered this.(i think)

Second he somehow also pretended that he was stupid, stumbling over simple words and getting angry over simple questions. this played to the dumbwitted people out there.. (there are a lot of them) people that should of never ever been allowed to have kids. he did graduate from Yale you cannot be stupid and do that. plus he flew jets...you cannot be a moron and do those two things.

So what will happen, well i think that all those rednecks will not vote for a black man....period. they may say they will but they won't.

Also i believe that the republicans will somehow get some type of referendum on the next ballot, maybe gays in the army? or some other thing to bring out the conservative nuckleheads..

Do you really think that a party that convinced the american people to vote for a national guard member over a proven combantant will somehow let a once elected black senator get elected to president?? NO WAY...

McCain was considered a maverick and you will see him play to that in the near future too.

watch the running mates that could make a big difference. and even if rove is out of town, he'll be behind the scene doing evil...

gas prices go down mccain.

war running well mccain.

Obama can still lose just through the vetting process. how many more insane preachers are out there??

they(republicans) will find something.

i think Bill Clinton is as close as we will be getting to a black president.(chris rock says clinton is black)

That's my two baht from the midwest white america.. don't like it but i think i will be right.

[dtyolmn]

Well, normally I don't get into politics but here goes.

 

Bush and Chaney (telling Bush what to do) has messed this country up on all fronts. (Remember Chaney also worked for George Sr. as his Chief of Staff) Bush isn't smart enough to make all those decisions. I believe his Daddy had a big hand in getting Chaney as VP. under his son. Bush's rating is now only 30%. Big business has controlled Bush all along.

 

McCain has wanted to be President for the past twenty years (So bad he's let his temper get in the way at times.) He will never get it because of all the people he has alienated and toes he stepped on. His wife is more qualified than he is to be President.

 

If the Republicans were smart they would have run Gov. Mitt Romney. He's got the smarts and is a self made banker and knows how to straighten out the economy but they made an issue of his relgion which really doesn't mean anything as far as running the country. He doesn't owe anyone anything and could get the job done.

 

Obama will win, not because of his color or anything but because the US wants a change and "new blood" which fits the bill. Plus after 20 years of Bush, Clinton, Bush this country is in desperate need of change and direction with new ideas. Right now there are allot of people who are trying scare tactics to get everyone to vote for McCain but it's not working.

 

So there's my 2 cents.

[Tang]

Is Barack going to be the first black President and make history or will McCain make history and become the oldest President ?

 

Me just glad to see the back of Bush .............

The only role of a president is to adress the public. I could be your president it doesnt matter, the outcome will still be the same, the president is told what to do and has no say in the matter because he's run by people far more powerful than any government that exists. I suggest any of you who have a bit of spare time try to think for yourselves and ignore the media that is being input into your tiny minds...this documentary is a very good start http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Tang]

Oh I forgot one thing FUCK POLITICS AND GET A LIFE IT'S ALL BULLSHIT!!!

[sabaivibe]

I hope McCain wins. I respect Obama for his drive and Desire. He is a great speaker but he has no substance and refuses to acknowledge truths that he doesn't agree with. He wants to tax us back to the Stone Ages and some of his international policies are naive. The problem with America is that we tend to idolize people with big images....Paris Hilton....Brittany Spears....etc..... That is exactly what Barak Obama has. When famous actors and musicians swoon over a political candidate it makes me sick. They have no idea what Obama stands for they just like his image. I've asked people why the are going to vote for Obama and 95% of them say he is handsome or that he is cool. That is really sad. McCain has been a very independent politician and has always stood for the people of America over politics. I say vote for McCain now and give Obama more time to get some experience. Maybe in the future he would be a great president.....unless he stays to the far left. He is to the Democrats what Bush is the the Republicans.....on the extreme side of his party.

[La Muerte]

I could write a novel in response to some of the things I have read here in this thread, but I'll try to keep it consice. My 2 baht:

 

1. I am supporting Obama 100%, and I believe he will win. I think there are an equal amount of star-struck image-oriented types who will votes for Obama without knowing the substance behind him as there are yahoos named Jasper who have < 46 chromosomes and believe that Sadaam Hussein personally flew both planes into the towers on 9/11 (presumably, those types will vote for McCain). A significant number of Americans, just like a significant number of Europeans have very little real knowledge and base their support on dogma and propaganda. I know this well, as I now live in Europe. At the same time, there are plenty of informed and educated voters who grasp the issues and will vote for Obama, just as there are some who will vote for McCain. What it really comes down to is the electoral college and the issues that are important in the swing states.

 

2. Yes, we can expect higher taxes with Obama. But don't kid yourself, we can expect the same thing with McCain too. The difference is that McCain is being much less honest about it. Higher taxes are an invariable consequence of the fiscal atrocities committed over the past eight years by this republican administration. We're in an incredible mess now that has to be resolved in part by generating revenues to pay off the debt. Additionally, we have to stop spending on insane military initiatives which only create more extreme hate against the US (thus making us less safe for years to come). So, we'll get higher taxes either way, but with Obama I am more confident that those tax revenues will be used to stabilize our country, both economically and diplomatically.

 

3. America in large part is still an ass-backwards place where it will be very difficult for a non-traditional candidate to gain the presidency. But in an odd way, the monumental disaster which has been the Bush administration may be the catalyst for a black man to win. Again, the right context for understanding this is the electoral college. There are places in this country where racism is still so embedded that a black man will not succeed, no matter what the circumstances are (e.g., Alabama, Mississippi, etc.). But those states don't matter so much in the electoral college. It is the swing states, like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc. that matter, and in those states the racism is not so strong that the moderate voter cannot be swayed. Bill and Mary from Ohio might not prefer to vote for a black man, but what they care about most is that their job in the factory remains secure. If they feel that a black man provides the best chance for that to happen, they'll hold their nose and vote for him.

 

4. I also agree to a large extent that the President is a figurehead as much as s/he is a policy maker. And with that in mind, I think it does matter who the international community prefers. Clearly, as several non-American BMs have pointed out, that is Obama. We Americans have been nothing short of stupid by pushing the formation of a global economy and marketplace, and simultaneiously alienating the international community by disregarding treaties and precendents for how military action should be handled. We need someone who can fix relationships, because it will help our standing once again in the international marketplace. This is why the republicans made a big, big mistake in choosing McCain over Romney. Romney could have done that just as well as Obama. In fact, as much of a liberal as I am, I even would have given Romney a real close look in a general election over either Obama or Clinton.

 

OK, I could babble a lot more, but I'll spare you all. Lots of intellignet points made here, both on the Obama as well as McCain sides. Nice to see that.

 

LM

[HDELUX]

Hmm

 

Is he BLACK or is he just dirty white?

 

I think the US citizens will vote for Barrack.

 

A breath of fresh air all be it me sees to say what people like to hear.

 

Sees a bit like our new PM, wants to be a world statesman and not to concerned about the issues affecting the locals.

 

Also given the US political system can see people like Arnold S and that wrestler due can become Goveners and Roanald Regan could become president, Barrack is a shoe in.

 

HD

[HDELUX]

La Muerte

 

As an interested party from afar!

 

Why does every now criticize George W, when you had the chance to end his term after 4 years.

 

Ever since he was re elected we see nothing but negative press and comment, so why or how was he re elected.

 

I know his first term was subject to a lot of people saying he should not be in the WH due to the voting problems, but you all put him back for a second term.

 

So is he now the only one responsible for the Sub Prime crisis and the energy crisis (petrol)?

 

Sometimes it is difficult to judge just what and why when we received limited subjective coverage.

 

HD

[bigjimslay]

Very sad for me to even enter a reply in this topic. I havent followed the election. Nor do I plan on following the election or plan on voting, I do not reside in the states anymore, but I still get paid in US dollars. So, I just wish someone would get in and make the darned US DOLLAR VALUE GO UP!!!!!!! Is that too much to ask? Its really sad, but I dont really care for the US Government to much, they are hypocrites, full stop, end of story.

[bodhi]

Obama is exactly what this country needs. I can't imagine why anyone would vote for the same policies that we've had for the past eight years. Obviously... they aren't working!

[rixkix]

Why so many threads on the US election on a mongering board? Lies and fear tactics have been mentioned more than once, and I agree completely that this is a huge problem, not only in the USA, but world wide. The media, whichever you choose to get your information from, being the biggest offenders. Whether broadcast, print, or internet, more readers equals more revenue, and more controversy equals more readers. There is an incredible amount of PURE BS flying around all of us presenting itself as reporting, or analysis. Dig deeper, look to the real facts. In this thread alone there is much of the results of this being displayed.

 

To wit - The common line is that Bush 'lied' about WMD's in Iraq. Hmmm, lied. In order for that to have been a lie, he would have had to have KNOWN, for a fact, that there were indeeed no WMD's in Iraq, something which almost all of the intelligence services around the globe believed to be true. My point is not that I agree with Bush or think he was a good guy, but rather that the media distorts and mis-informs us, often deliberately. Seriously, whatever source of information you use, check them out, do the research, find out of they are telling you the truth or not. Very very few do that because it takes too long, we have other things more important to us, like mongering. That is a sad truth, one I personally am embarassed to admit has been true of myself for most of my lifetime. But at this point in history more than ever before we need to get the facts, the straight facts.

 

My 25 year old daughter and I sit at opposite sides of the political spectrum, and have had many heated political debates. But we have both agreed completely that if we ever have a candidate who convinces us that they are sincere and honest and will do what they sincerely and honestly believe to be best for the country, we would vote for them regardless of political affiliation.

 

At this point, McCain seems considerably closer to this test than Obama. But there is a lot of ground to be covered between now and election day.

 

To whomever it was who said they would not vote, did not live in the states, and other things about how bad the USA is, well, sounds to me like it is time for you to renounce your citizenship and become of citizen of Germany I think it was, or wherever, if they will have you.

 

I strongly urge all Americans to vote this election, for whomever you like, but to do your homework and vote based on facts, not on fluff. Oil, imho, is THE overwhelming issue, impacting not only the economy and environment, but also national security. He who convinces me that he actually will devote major resources to stopping oil imports as fast as possible will get my vote.

 

Once again, why even discuss these topics on a mongering board?

 

Rick

 

PS - If you wish to debate energy, debate not argue, feel free to stop by my blog, Uncrossing The Wires.

Edited September 7, 2008 by rixkix

[bodhi]

We'll never stop oil imports as we're a country that utilizes much more than we'll ever have access to from our own sources. Unless, of course, we focus more of our resources on alternative ways to power vehicles (electricity, hydrogen, etc). But where's the record profits in that?

[bolly]

Why so many threads on the US election on a mongering board? Lies and fear tactics have been mentioned more than once, and I agree completely that this is a huge problem, not only in the USA, but world wide. The media, whichever you choose to get your information from, being the biggest offenders. Whether broadcast, print, or internet, more readers equals more revenue, and more controversy equals more readers. There is an incredible amount of PURE BS flying around all of us presenting itself as reporting, or analysis. Dig deeper, look to the real facts. In this thread alone there is much of the results of this being displayed.

 

To wit - The common line is that Bush 'lied' about WMD's in Iraq. Hmmm, lied. In order for that to have been a lie, he would have had to have KNOWN, for a fact, that there were indeeed no WMD's in Iraq, something which almost all of the intelligence services around the globe believed to be true. My point is not that I agree with Bush or think he was a good guy, but rather that the media distorts and mis-informs us, often deliberately. Seriously, whatever source of information you use, check them out, do the research, find out of they are telling you the truth or not. Very very few do that because it takes too long, we have other things more important to us, like mongering. That is a sad truth, one I personally am embarassed to admit has been true of myself for most of my lifetime. But at this point in history more than ever before we need to get the facts, the straight facts.

 

My 25 year old daughter and I sit at opposite sides of the political spectrum, and have had many heated political debates. But we have both agreed completely that if we ever have a candidate who convinces us that they are sincere and honest and will do what they sincerely and honestly believe to be best for the country, we would vote for them regardless of political affiliation.

 

At this point, McCain seems considerably closer to this test than Obama. But there is a lot of ground to be covered between now and election day.

 

To whomever it was who said they would not vote, did not live in the states, and other things about how bad the USA is, well, sounds to me like it is time for you to renounce your citizenship and become of citizen of Germany I think it was, or wherever, if they will have you.

 

I strongly urge all Americans to vote this election, for whomever you like, but to do your homework and vote based on facts, not on fluff. Oil, imho, is THE overwhelming issue, impacting not only the economy and environment, but also national security. He who convinces me that he actually will devote major resources to stopping oil imports as fast as possible will get my vote.

 

Once again, why even discuss these topics on a mongering board?

 

Rick

 

PS - If you wish to debate energy, debate not argue, feel free to stop by my blog, Uncrossing The Wires.

 

Hi Rixkix--no offense but the board has many sub areas and this is in the appropriate area (news forum).

Enjoyed yours and everyones take on these issues.

bolly

[rixkix]

Bolly, thanks for the comment, and I do agree, if we have to discuss this issue, it is at least in the correct section. My point, however, is that there are 2 topics that will get people worked up and angry faster than any other, religion and politics. This and the other thread have not degraded into a slugfest, and for that I commend the BMs, and mods. However, play with fire long enough and you will get burned. Letting this topic turn into a slugfest would not be a good thing at all, imho.

 

Rick

[bolly]

Hi Rick---not to thread-jack---but i wonder why politics and religion cause people to get so worked up. It all seems such a waste of energy. If you are comfortable in either area with your own ideas--and you know that nothing anyone can say is going to change your opinion about either why put forth the energy.

 

I enjoy discussing both topics in a kind of "observer" mode. But I have no illusions that anything I say is going to sway one person one way or the other.

 

bolly

[mikey m]

I would like to see Obama win as I feel America needs a change.

However I think Mcain will win as he picked the right running partner.

Barrack should have got Hillary on Board but he did not and this may just cost him IMO.

I am no Racist but another point is in general America is Racist and are the people ready to vote in a man who is black ????

We all know he is as black as he is white but is the US election not won & lost in the middle states ?????

I just hope who ever wins is good for world peace as its a dangerous world now more than ever.

[barney]

He's too much like Tony Blair........all polished rhetoric and no substance. All smoke and mirrors. Mind you, the other one is worse, he's a Republican!

Edited September 8, 2008 by barney

[moon71]

Give the american population, two right wing parties to vote for an they get in a muddle as if they have a choice. Nothing will change either way you vote, it's still right wing. Think you wouldnt be in Iraq if someone else was president?

 

Pretty much the same in the UK, give the population 2 right wing parties to vote for, nothing will change. Politics isnt politics anymore, it's business an jobs for the boys, all your voting for is who'll you'll see on the tv more. Oh, did i mention, for every MP you vote in, you give his wife a £30k job as receptionist. Its tax payers money that funds the dirty business of politics, an hence, do you think the powers want it to change? Not likely.

 

In the UK, 65% can vote against a political party but that party can still get in due to demographics.

 

Theres a thing callled preportional representation. It'll never happen because the losers will be the main parties. The "my vote counts" in the UK will never happen because the silent majority accept that there vote is a lost vote. Thats why turnout can be as low as 35%. Why bother voting.

 

Still believe you still live in a democracy is the biggest lie of all. I'd define the UK an USA as more of a Capitalist Dictatorship, which isnt much different to socialism(the difference is keeping big business happy instead of people an hence the two views are closer link than the parties themselves). They'll sell you the process as democracy, but it isnt, like i said, lets give the population to right wing parties to vote for an the status que is the same. Best just to accept your lot, go off to work an save for your visit to LOS.