The Darkside. What is it really?

[pattayaman2001]

As a follow up to my Business Wanted thread I've had a few suggestions of what's for sale on the Darkside.

 

Hands up... I don't know the area well at all. My only experience of the Darkside was about 9 or 10 years ago my friend lived over on Soi Kow-Talo.

 

The bars I don't know, the ex-pats I don't know.

 

I've been advised by some people on other forums to 'completely forget the idea of setting up shop on the Darkside' that the locals are cheap Charlies and everything is doomed to failure.

 

While others from the Darkside have told me it's better living than in the Madness of Central Pattaya.

 

What's your opinion Darksiders.

 

Do you go out and socialise?

 

Do you support local businesses?

 

Is there life after Central Pattaya?

 

The Darkside seems quite spread out. Where's the areas with the concentration of Western ex-pats most likely to be?

 

I am reading this part of the forum but it would be good to get it from the Horses mouth to help a 'Darkside newbie' like me understand what it has to offer and most importantly how a new business venture in your area be greeted?

 

Gentlemen...

[Johnny Danish]

For sure it's better to live here than in the madness, but I'd never open a bar here. I often go with friends to the bars around here, but mostly we're just talking and drinking. You don't want to fuck around too close to home! There are already plenty of bars but the girls are so-so. If you could open a really nice place and get really nice girls I don't see why it shouldn't succeed, but most places are just crappy hole-in-the-wall shop houses with a couple of tired girls, a combination of burnouts from the bright side and shy farm fresh girls.

 

There are farangs all over the dark side. Soi Neunplabwan and Soi Kao Noi is the oldest and most densely populated area with the cheapest properties. Outer parts of Soi Siam Country Club and Soi Kao Talo have some very nice moobahns (villages), starting price around 4-5MB up.

 

 

[pattayaman2001]

For sure it's better to live here than in the madness, but I'd never open a bar here. I often go with friends to the bars around here, but mostly we're just talking and drinking. You don't want to fuck around too close to home! There are already plenty of bars but the girls are so-so. If you could open a really nice place and get really nice girls I don't see why it shouldn't succeed, but most places are just crappy hole-in-the-wall shop houses with a couple of tired girls, a combination of burnouts from the bright side and shy farm fresh girls. There are farangs all over the dark side. Soi Neunplabwan and Soi Kao Noi is the oldest and most densely populated area with the cheapest properties. Outer parts of Soi Siam Country Club and Soi Kao Talo have some very nice moobahns (villages), starting price around 4-5MB up.

 

Wow... is that the price for a house in Soi Kao Talo? They were 600,000 baht back then when my mate lived there.

[Johnny Danish]

I don't think you find anything in SKT for 600k anymore. Starting price for a small thai property is 1M. Anything you'd want to live in, probably 2-3x that.

[pattayaman2001]

I don't think you find anything in SKT for 600k anymore. Starting price for a small thai property is 1M. Anything you'd want to live in, probably 2-3x that.

 

Yes, that was Thai prices. Farangs were asking 1 Mil back then.

 

Same as when I lived in Lallana condo, my Landlord was selling 42m2 units for 1.2 Million. The Thais that owned the shop in the complex were selling the same units for 550,000 baht.

 

I wouldn't take farang prices as an indicator I'd get a house valued by a Thai bank. They value them whether they lend on them or not.

[Johnny Danish]

No mate, these are not rip-off prices, the Thais pay this as well for this level quality.

 

For some really nice properties check out Siam Royal View in SKT, starting price around 10M, but there are properties in the village valued over 100M.

 

Check out this Google street view link: http://goo.gl/maps/uSPxv

[pattayaman2001]

We do plan to look at a couple of bars for sale in the Darkside. A bar/restaurant with a take away service is what we plan to do.

Are there enough ex-pats over there?

[Taeng Mo]

I don't think you find anything in SKT for 600k anymore. Starting price for a small thai property is 1M. Anything you'd want to live in, probably 2-3x that.

Yep, prices have been driven off the scale. By retirement couples, looking for their own Nirvana.

I reckon, if you want to settle in this part of town and Monger, then a modicum of Thai Language would go a long way.

[Johnny Danish]

Plenty of restaurants here already, also very good ones, but surely place for more. Enough pizza/English places already though, but a Mediterranean place would surely be popular.

 

I don't think prices have been driven up that much. Mostly the construction quality has improved heaps the last 5-10 years. Just look around for yourself and you'll see.

 

If you want to monger you'll quickly learn the necessary phrases....

 

[pattayaman2001]

Plenty of restaurants here already, also very good ones, but surely place for more. Enough pizza/English places already though, but a Mediterranean place would surely be popular. I don't think prices have been driven up that much. Mostly the construction quality has improved heaps the last 5-10 years. Just look around for yourself and you'll see. If you want to monger you'll quickly learn the necessary phrases....

 

I speak pretty good Thai mate, I know most of the phrases.

 

What I'm not familiar with is the Darkside itself.

 

We are going to do Chinese/Cantonese and Western food. Plus a bar.

 

Thanks for your replies, certainly worth looking at by the sound of things.

[jerry]

We do plan to look at a couple of bars for sale in the Darkside. A bar/restaurant with a take away service is what we plan to do.

Are there enough ex-pats over there?

 

 

What I'm not familiar with is the Darkside itself.

 

We are going to do Chinese/Cantonese and Western food. Plus a bar.

 

If you're not familiar with the darkside and when you need to ask questions like 'are there enough expats over there' i would reconsider your plans .

[pattayaman2001]

If you're not familiar with the darkside and when you need to ask questions like 'are there enough expats over there' i would reconsider your plans .

 

That's the reason I'm asking. Hoping to get proper responses.

 

I'm not familiar with the Darkside but I've got anti Darksiders telling me to forget doing anything there and I've got Darkside Business owners telling me that's the place to go!

[Scuzz]

Darkside is a great place for relaxing. One of our Favorite restaurants is The Kao Noi sports bar.

I remembered seeing an ad for it on Bahtsold. Found it for ya. The ad is expired, but the info & pics are there.

Dunno if it ever sold, but here's the ad: http://www.bahtsold.com/view/sport-bar-for-sale-busy-area-soi-kho-noi-124733?doqs=1

[jerry]

That's the reason I'm asking. Hoping to get proper responses.

 

I'm not familiar with the Darkside but I've got anti Darksiders telling me to forget doing anything there and I've got Darkside Business owners telling me that's the place to go!

 

I know a lot of the bar owners and know how much they make ... if i would start a business it would be on the darkside ...

[pattayaman2001]

I know a lot of the bar owners and know how much they make ... if i would start a business it would be on the darkside ...

 

Thanks for that.

 

The bar owners I know all operate in Central Pattaya and they say 'forget the Darkside'

 

It's nice to read an alternative opinion.

[maliminer]

worth a look around before you jump in, i read all the comments you get about the darkside but imho its a great place and expanding all the time, i bought a place on kao noi 7 years ago beside the red lion, if it carries on growing the way it is at it's presnt rate i will be in the centre of pattaya in 5 years time.

[pattayaman2001]

worth a look around before you jump in, i read all the comments you get about the darkside but imho its a great place and expanding all the time, i bought a place on kao noi 7 years ago beside the red lion, if it carries on growing the way it is at it's presnt rate i will be in the centre of pattaya in 5 years time.

 

Yip, we will have a look. We have 2 places on the Darkside and about 5 places on the brightside to consider. If they are still there in 2.5 weeks of course.

[willyboy]

We do plan to look at a couple of bars for sale in the Darkside. A bar/restaurant with a take away service is what we plan to do.

Are there enough ex-pats over there?

I'm a huge Darkside fan and lived there for a long time.Despite the potential of the area, I can't understand why you would buy an existing business though? Makes no financial sense to me when there are so many newly built shop houses going begging.

[pattayaman2001]

I'm a huge Darkside fan and lived there for a long time.Despite the potential of the area, I can't understand why you would buy an existing business though? Makes no financial sense to me when there are so many newly built shop houses going begging.

 

Yes, you might be right. The only advantage might be that they have regular custom, pool, darts nights etc but of course i know that means sweet F.A. they might take their custom somewhere else.

 

I expect most of our custom will be in the form of takeaways or delivered food but having regulars in and drinking is what we want to.

 

As you say there are empty units and we will look at these as well.

 

It's the best location on the Darkside I'm not sure about.

[willyboy]

Yes, you might be right. The only advantage might be that they have regular custom, pool, darts nights etc but of course i know that means sweet F.A. they might take their custom somewhere else.

 

I expect most of our custom will be in the form of takeaways or delivered food but having regulars in and drinking is what we want to.

 

As you say there are empty units and we will look at these as well.

 

It's the best location on the Darkside I'm not sure about.

No goodwill in Pattaya so you are buying fuck all, but sounds like you know that already. Very little to be gained in pool and darts nights either, I've been involved in both. You lose your bread and butter regulars for away games don't forget and on home nights the visitors spend fuck all, just eat your food.

 Soi Nernplubwern or Khao Talo are your only choices really, you could take a punt around the lake (pun intended) but would be lucky to survive. Soi Siam Country Club might make it in the future but not for a few years.

 Definitely scope for good food on the Darkside but a tough market, keep the bar for a fun side line, not profit.

[pattayaman2001]

No goodwill in Pattaya so you are buying fuck all, but sounds like you know that already. Very little to be gained in pool and darts nights either, I've been involved in both. You lose your bread and butter regulars for away games don't forget and on home nights the visitors spend fuck all, just eat your food.

 Soi Nernplubwern or Khao Talo are your only choices really, you could take a punt around the lake (pun intended) but would be lucky to survive. Soi Siam Country Club might make it in the future but not for a few years.

 Definitely scope for good food on the Darkside but a tough market, keep the bar for a fun side line, not profit.

 

Good post. I like that, sounds like good advice.

 

Do you know anything about Soi Boon Sam Pan?

[willyboy]

Good post. I like that, sounds like good advice.

 

Do you know anything about Soi Boon Sam Pan?

 

 Soi Khao Noi becomes Soi Wat Boompamsam (ish) towards Khao Talo. Always been bars and eateries towards the bottom end but only Noi's ever had a following because of Lee (rip) I suppose if you establish a good customer base it's as good as anywhere but probably has the least foot traffic in an area not generally known for foot traffic!

[Wolf Cat]

I've been living on the DS for over 4 years and just want to add my 25 satangs; it's easy enough to open a bar but don't expect big money. On a average day the bars are "busiest" in the late afternoon and early evening and when I say " busiest"  I'm talking 5 customers (if lucky), other than that it's 0-1-2 customers at a time throughout the day.  It's very common to see a handful of farangs drinking beer at the local mom & pop stores where beer is cheaper. 

I agree with the OP's line of living on the DS is better than the madness of central Pattaya, but living here and running a business here are 2 different matters.

[Johnny Danish]

 Soi Khao Noi becomes Soi Wat Boompamsam (ish) towards Khao Talo. Always been bars and eateries towards the bottom end but only Noi's ever had a following because of Lee (rip) I suppose if you establish a good customer base it's as good as anywhere but probably has the least foot traffic in an area not generally known for foot traffic!

 

 

Boonsampan is the official Thai name for Soi Khao Noi, it's the same name, from Sukhumvit Road until it connects with Soi Khao Talo, on top of the "talo" (hill).

[LivinLOS]

Look at one of the places that is doing good trade (by my eyes on my mini visit) Aqua Daymie.. Lots of FLs so not big staff bills.. Seemed like plenty of punters when I popped my head in (almost too many to want to kick up much naughtyness with the girls).. 

 

I saw that La Guingette is for sale.. It looked tired and worn and needed a revamp, but personally I love those hidden away pool places with a few fun staff.. Ideally a jacuzzi and some hidden corners.. Thats precisely what the darkside has that the brightside sort of lacks, a pool bar with girls for some daytime fun (I cut my teeth in Thailand with the Valhalla wet t shirt / strip contest / pool parties in Phuket, not been a time like it since IMO).. Upmarket daytime Soi 6 in a pool setting. 

 

If I was to open a business darkside, it would be more about providing a pool, lounge, chill out, type vibe with fun girls on staff (tho maybe the average age of darksiders counts against that a bit for the chill out tunes type feel).. Slightly better decor and setup than like Dao cafe etc.. Then make sure that social media / facebook / forums / etc spread that out to the visiting types also.. Have some monthly 'bikini dance contests' with prizes or 'Miss Ass Pattaya' competitions etc.. and spread the word for FLs that theres money to be had..  People will jump a tuktuk if they think theres a nice pool party going on. A buddy and I did this on Phuket and would absolutely pack out a bar with 30 or 40 forum guys all hollaring and hooting for a few 1000b in prize money to the FLs. 

 

Think stylish beach club decor (Catch beach club, Nikki Beach Samui, etc) but for the P4P Pattaya visitor.. Location wouldnt want to be too deep into the darkside perhaps.. All about venue / location / space and not just being another shophouse copycat. Of course thats going to need a bit more startup costs than shophouse plus bar plus drink stock.