Installation of WiFi and cabling

[devee8]

I am fitting out a new building to be a guesthouse and as part of this fitout I will need the installation of the necessary Data cabling to connect up the WiFi access points on each floor so I am looking for people who may have done this before or someone who you would recommend to do the installation of it all

[Little Evil]

I am fitting out a new building to be a guesthouse and as part of this fitout I will need the installation of the necessary Data cabling to connect up the WiFi access points on each floor so I am looking for people who may have done this before or someone who you would recommend to do the installation of it all

 

You could also skip the LAN wiring and set up repeaters as an alternative, depending on how many floors/total coverage area.  If the building is uniform on each floor, and if the (assumed) ground floor wireless router's coverage is enough to cover the entire ground floor area, then a centrally located repeater on each floor is all you will need for a 3-4 floor building.  You might even be able to get away with only one if the building allows for good floor to floor transmission (ie. wireless router on ground floor for ground and 1st floor, repeater on 3rd floor for 3rd and 4th floors).  This is more of a cost effective alternative.  It works the best with a wireless N router and duplex repeater. Would also benefit from replacing one of the repeater antenna with a high-gain direction antenna pointed towards the router.      

 

If you want the most robust coverage and performance, then you probably will need pony up the money to wire access points on each floor.  

[andyaus]

Keep it simple. 

 

The fit out is the best time to run some cable and cable will always trump wireless. Save yourself future issues and run cable to each floor.  Remember that you will probably need to supply power at each access point location. 

 

Your router will probably have 4 outlets on the back which suits a small domestic situation but you might prefer to use a separate switch. It comes down to the cost of the job vs the performance.

 

Now days a router with a 4 port switch can be supplied for about $50.

You can get a small 8 port giga switch for $30.

Wireless access ports can be supplied for $65.

 

If you decide to get a Router with an inbuilt switch and wireless connection then you might be introducing a future problem. They don’t last for ever and you need to replace everything. If you have three components you can manage it better.

 

I am assuming that you are on a budget so my recommendation is to get your DSL service terminated on a router which connects to your switch. Then run access points to each location and termibate these on the same switch, You can then set each access point with the same SSID name and Password so you have your WIFI network. 

 

If you need to upgrade your Router then it doesn’t effect your WIFI network. 

 

The key is the cost of the Access Points (AP). At $65 each yoiu can afford to be generous. 

 

If it was my guesthouse I would run a cat 5 outlet to each room and install AP’s in every room although this might be overkill.  You shoud get 30 to 50 meters out of each AP.

 

Remember the Cat 5 cabling can be used for IP Cameras, IP telephones, Door Bells etc as well so a small investment now is worth while. 

 

You are running a guesthouse so you don’t need fancy equipment. I use  TP Link 300Mbps Wireless N access points which are cheap, work well and fast enough for most applications. They are easy to set up and maintain. 

 

I suggest you get down to Toucom and price the components. If the prices are too high then these things are light enough to get from Oz and bring up.  The only thing you realy need is cable. A 300 meter box of Cat5 costs me $85. The outlets (RJ45) will be about $5 each. As a negotiating point I allow 1.5 hours per point to run and terminate the cable and then look at the difficulty.

 

Send me a PM if I can be of any help. (I will be in Patts at the end of May for a few weeks)

[Little Evil]

Keep it simple. 

 

The fit out is the best time to run some cable and cable will always trump wireless. Save yourself future issues and run cable to each floor.  Remember that you will probably need to supply power at each access point location. 

 

Your router will probably have 4 outlets on the back which suits a small domestic situation but you might prefer to use a separate switch. It comes down to the cost of the job vs the performance.

 

Now days a router with a 4 port switch can be supplied for about $50.

You can get a small 8 port giga switch for $30.

Wireless access ports can be supplied for $65.

 

If you decide to get a Router with an inbuilt switch and wireless connection then you might be introducing a future problem. They don’t last for ever and you need to replace everything. If you have three components you can manage it better.

 

I am assuming that you are on a budget so my recommendation is to get your DSL service terminated on a router which connects to your switch. Then run access points to each location and termibate these on the same switch, You can then set each access point with the same SSID name and Password so you have your WIFI network. 

 

If you need to upgrade your Router then it doesn’t effect your WIFI network. 

 

The key is the cost of the Access Points (AP). At $65 each yoiu can afford to be generous. 

 

If it was my guesthouse I would run a cat 5 outlet to each room and install AP’s in every room although this might be overkill.  You shoud get 30 to 50 meters out of each AP.

 

Remember the Cat 5 cabling can be used for IP Cameras, IP telephones, Door Bells etc as well so a small investment now is worth while. 

 

You are running a guesthouse so you don’t need fancy equipment. I use  TP Link 300Mbps Wireless N access points which are cheap, work well and fast enough for most applications. They are easy to set up and maintain. 

 

I suggest you get down to Toucom and price the components. If the prices are too high then these things are light enough to get from Oz and bring up.  The only thing you realy need is cable. A 300 meter box of Cat5 costs me $85. The outlets (RJ45) will be about $5 each. As a negotiating point I allow 1.5 hours per point to run and terminate the cable and then look at the difficulty.

 

Send me a PM if I can be of any help. (I will be in Patts at the end of May for a few weeks)

 

That would be the ideal route, but that is assuming that his walls/floors are open and he is willing to have someone pull cable.  I guess it depends on what he means by "fit out".  Is that a renovation or just equipping the guest house with wifi?  These days it is becoming increasingly rare for people to use Ethernet connections, so I don't think having Cat5 in each room makes sense.  People like you and me would probable use it, but casual surfers with tablets and MBA's aren't going to touch it.

 

I still think a hi-power repeater would do the trick for a small guesthouse.  A dual 600mW amp repeater with aftermarket hi-gain antennas would cost around $200 all said and done.  It just requires a power source and bam! 8-10k sq ft of additional coverage (depending on wall thickness and composition, of course).  

[andyaus]

That would be the ideal route, but that is assuming that his walls/floors are open and he is willing to have someone pull cable.  I guess it depends on what he means by "fit out".  Is that a renovation or just equipping the guest house with wifi?  These days it is becoming increasingly rare for people to use Ethernet connections, so I don't think having Cat5 in each room makes sense.  People like you and me would probable use it, but casual surfers with tablets and MBA's aren't going to touch it.

 

I still think a hi-power repeater would do the trick for a small guesthouse.  A dual 600mW amp repeater with aftermarket hi-gain antennas would cost around $200 all said and done.  It just requires a power source and bam! 8-10k sq ft of additional coverage (depending on wall thickness and composition, of course).  

 

You are right. The job could be done using repeaters. Most guest houses I have seen would get away with a wireless router on the ground floor and a repeater on the middle floor but i prefer to err on the side of overkill.  I have noticed a trend away from hardwired solutions but I regularly get called in to run cables when things don’t work as well as expected. 

 

I had a room in Opey De Place and could not get internet access so after complaining for three days I moved down the road. They missed out on three weeks accomodation for the sake of a $65 repeater. It seems that WIFI is a low priority for many places and it is so easy to fix.

 

I have had issues when using a repeater and connecting to a different brand router but that might have been my issues rather than equipment. What brand do you prefer?

[Little Evil]

You are right. The job could be done using repeaters. Most guest houses I have seen would get away with a wireless router on the ground floor and a repeater on the middle floor but i prefer to err on the side of overkill.  I have noticed a trend away from hardwired solutions but I regularly get called in to run cables when things don’t work as well as expected. 

 

I had a room in Opey De Place and could not get internet access so after complaining for three days I moved down the road. They missed out on three weeks accomodation for the sake of a $65 repeater. It seems that WIFI is a low priority for many places and it is so easy to fix.

 

I have had issues when using a repeater and connecting to a different brand router but that might have been my issues rather than equipment. What brand do you prefer?

 

I typically leave the hardware stuff to my electrician and/or tech for work, but for long range wireless I have used Hawking in the past at home with decent results.  I do know my tech used some industrial grade repeaters in the past--ones that are hard wired instead of plug-in.  They look like smoke detectors.  However, I know that there are many plugin solutions that offer the 600mW amps.  

 

I'm also not disagreeing that wired to wireless or just wired is the way to go, but it is a significant price and time investment.

 

I used to dabble in wireless range extending a few years back before N was ratified.  I had a lot of fun with home made cantennas and other directional antennas.  Used to pull fully usable networks from at least 1000 city feet away (sometimes without line of sight) with no issues.  Could go further, but with mixed results.  

[Para]

You are right. The job could be done using repeaters. Most guest houses I have seen would get away with a wireless router on the ground floor and a repeater on the middle floor but i prefer to err on the side of overkill.  I have noticed a trend away from hardwired solutions but I regularly get called in to run cables when things don’t work as well as expected. 

 

I had a room in Opey De Place and could not get internet access so after complaining for three days I moved down the road. They missed out on three weeks accomodation for the sake of a $65 repeater. It seems that WIFI is a low priority for many places and it is so easy to fix.

 

I have had issues when using a repeater and connecting to a different brand router but that might have been my issues rather than equipment. What brand do you prefer?

 

IMO I have found dedicated repeaters to be poor performing at best. I would say run a CAT6 cable to each floor and add an AP for each floor.

 

Kinda hard without doing a site survey. If you want I could drop by and have a look got 25 years IT behind me.

[andyaus]

IMO I have found dedicated repeaters to be poor performing at best. I would say run a CAT6 cable to each floor and add an AP for each floor.

 

Kinda hard without doing a site survey. If you want I could drop by and have a look got 25 years IT behind me.

 

Good advice.

 

Repeaters and Access points are usually the same product with slight programming changes.  I would question the need for cat 6 cabling in a guest house. The small extra benefits will not justify the additional costs. 

 

If you can get someone with experience to have a look then go for it. You don’t need huge skills to run and terminate the cable and the wireless access points are simple to instal.

[Para]

Good advice.

 

Repeaters and Access points are usually the same product with slight programming changes.  I would question the need for cat 6 cabling in a guest house. The small extra benefits will not justify the additional costs. 

 

If you can get someone with experience to have a look then go for it. You don’t need huge skills to run and terminate the cable and the wireless access points are simple to instal.

 

 

I wish the place I am staying used real AP's and not repeaters I have a DLINK DAP1360 within 10m's of my computer and the signal is up and down all day.

 

The cost between CAT6 and CAT5/5e is not as much as it was it also means with a gigaswitch in he could potentially offer some streaming media for a price?

 

They changed the connectors slightly for CAT6. Its still an RJ45 but has a small plastic guide insert that you feed the wires through BEFORE pushing it onto the connector and crimping. I absolutely HATE terminating cables but these newer connectors are a dream to use.

[andyaus]

I wish the place I am staying used real AP's and not repeaters I have a DLINK DAP1360 within 10m's of my computer and the signal is up and down all day.

 

The cost between CAT6 and CAT5/5e is not as much as it was it also means with a gigaswitch in he could potentially offer some streaming media for a price?

 

They changed the connectors slightly for CAT6. Its still an RJ45 but has a small plastic guide insert that you feed the wires through BEFORE pushing it onto the connector and crimping. I absolutely HATE terminating cables but these newer connectors are a dream to use.

 

 

The Dlink DAP1360 is about 4 years old and I have heard that they offer inconsistent performance. I am currently using some TP Link TL-WA901ND Access points which have proven to provide a good service.

 

 

I stayed at PW House in Soi Lengkee last year and they had DLINK APs which performed extremely well. These were installed in the stairwell, the power and data cables were jammed in the same duct and the cables were simply crimped with RJ45 connectors.  There are many things wrong with this but it works and was cheap to instal.

 

 

In the future my advice might be proved wrong but I think that a guest house in Pattaya is hardly likely to need the extra performance from Cat6.

[Para]

 

The Dlink DAP1360 is about 4 years old and I have heard that they offer inconsistent performance. I am currently using some TP Link TL-WA901ND Access points which have proven to provide a good service.

 

 

I stayed at PW House in Soi Lengkee last year and they had DLINK APs which performed extremely well. These were installed in the stairwell, the power and data cables were jammed in the same duct and the cables were simply crimped with RJ45 connectors.  There are many things wrong with this but it works and was cheap to instal.

 

 

 

In the future my advice might be proved wrong but I think that a guest house in Pattaya is hardly likely to need the extra performance from Cat6.

 

The DAP's are crap period!

 

Personally I always go for Linksys kit but they are pricier than TP-Link who actually offer a 'real' replacement warranty.

 

More then likely I will be the one proved wrong about using CAT6 the way I look at it is if they are referbing the building and the price difference between 5 and 6 is acceptable why not factor in some scalability? Can always use it for Smart TV's but its as broad as it is wide!

[Woofiee]

I know everyone loves to hate on Apple these days, but I use a late-mode Apple Dual-Channel Airport Extreme and it's been damn reliable. You can add a larger antenna if you want, but I never, ever have to reboot the thing. Such an incredible change from the past stupid Linksys router. I have it feeding a few repeaters (3 airport expresses) throughout the house and garden and the 5Ghz band keeps it all running fast, but Apple keeps it secure, simple and reliable. I can't recommend it enough. 

[Little Evil]

Just to clarify my initial suggestion of repeaters: I am well aware that repeaters are not a "best practices" solution.  However, if using the right brand, and if set up optimally, they are a cost effective alternative to pulling Cat5/5e/6 throughout a building to wallplates and wireless A/P's.  If money isn't a factor, then by all means pull the cable.  

 

That being said, another potential avenue that could help cut costs would be a powerline network solution.  In full disclosure, I've never used them before, but if they work as advertised  it could save you the money of having to pull cable.  I suppose that would rely on decent electrical infrastructure to guarantee advertised performance--not something I would imagine is as uniform across the board in Pattaya as it is in the States.  Still, nothing beats Ho Chi Minh for crazy electrical wiring.  That city is the wild, wild west in terms of no practiced electrical code.  

[Para]

Just to clarify my initial suggestion of repeaters: I am well aware that repeaters are not a "best practices" solution.  However, if using the right brand, and if set up optimally, they are a cost effective alternative to pulling Cat5/5e/6 throughout a building to wallplates and wireless A/P's.  If money isn't a factor, then by all means pull the cable.  

 

I think we all understood what you were saying and were simply throwing in other possible options after all no one has seen the building and we have no idea about budget or requirements.

 

One thing I don't understand is the way you are differentiating repeaters from AP's for a lay person they all look the same from a technical view there isn't a lot different. Regardless of using repeaters or AP's you still need a cable run to each box which to me is a strange thin to say.

 

I will agree with you 100% about running CATx to each room and offering cabled internet as being far from ideal in fact I bet your 'typical' home user would never know they could plug a network cable into their laptop as they have only ever used WiFi.

[DaffyDuck]

If you want the most robust coverage and performance, then you probably will need pony up the money to wire access points on each floor.  

Skip the repeaters, go with hardlines. I'm serious - you're setting yourself up for headaches by hoping the repeaters will work - they won't. Not reliably.

 

Spend the extra $$$ to wire each floor, and set up a backbone between floors.

 

1-2 access points on each floor (depending on the reach of each floor). There's no point if you end up with dead spots on each floor, as you will.

 

Forego the cheap and lame solution of having a different wifi network for each floor (ie "Floor 01" "Floor 02"), and set the entire network up as a single network name - it's called an "Extended Network" for each Access Point. This works for a guest house (where you are unlikely to run out of IP addresses), though if you wanted to scale, there are other ways of having a separate virtual network for each floor).

 

Get a smart router to sit behind your internet connection - preferably something like a system based on pfSense (free software that runs on a cheap, small PC, equipped with multi-network cards). This gives you more flexibility, and also allows you to manage bandwidth, as well as see where "abuses" of your network happen. There's actually a lot you can do with pfSense, including a captive portal (as in having guests sign in to your network, for example). It's well worth doing.

 

Additionally, you could set yourself up with a VOIP system, for the reception, or "business center" areas, giving you pretty low cost (if not 'free') calls to the U and Canada.

 

[Para]

Skip the repeaters, go with hardlines. I'm serious - you're setting yourself up for headaches by hoping the repeaters will work - they won't. Not reliably.

 

Spend the extra $$$ to wire each floor, and set up a backbone between floors.

 

1-2 access points on each floor (depending on the reach of each floor). There's no point if you end up with dead spots on each floor, as you will.

 

Forego the cheap and lame solution of having a different wifi network for each floor (ie "Floor 01" "Floor 02"), and set the entire network up as a single network name - it's called an "Extended Network" for each Access Point. This works for a guest house (where you are unlikely to run out of IP addresses), though if you wanted to scale, there are other ways of having a separate virtual network for each floor).

 

Get a smart router to sit behind your internet connection - preferably something like a system based on pfSense (free software that runs on a cheap, small PC, equipped with multi-network cards). This gives you more flexibility, and also allows you to manage bandwidth, as well as see where "abuses" of your network happen. There's actually a lot you can do with pfSense, including a captive portal (as in having guests sign in to your network, for example). It's well worth doing.

 

Additionally, you could set yourself up with a VOIP system, for the reception, or "business center" areas, giving you pretty low cost (if not 'free') calls to the U and Canada.

 

 

Costs aside certainly the perfect set up no doubt.......

[Little Evil]

I think we all understood what you were saying and were simply throwing in other possible options after all no one has seen the building and we have no idea about budget or requirements.

 

One thing I don't understand is the way you are differentiating repeaters from AP's for a lay person they all look the same from a technical view there isn't a lot different. Regardless of using repeaters or AP's you still need a cable run to each box which to me is a strange thin to say.

 

I will agree with you 100% about running CATx to each room and offering cabled internet as being far from ideal in fact I bet your 'typical' home user would never know they could plug a network cable into their laptop as they have only ever used WiFi.

 

You are kind of right in that some modern repeaters can act as access points as well, and vice verca.  However, there are still some repeaters that simply extend network range.  Those types are "dumb" in the sense that they do not assign IP's and they do not route, they just relay signal.  The advantage  is that this type of unit usually concentrates on signal amplification instead of other functions, and can result in higher outputs.  I was making the distinction because I was thinking about the higher output units like the type you see in hospitals and airports.  

[Para]

You are kind of right in that some modern repeaters can act as access points as well, and vice verca.  However, there are still some repeaters that simply extend network range.  Those types are "dumb" in the sense that they do not assign IP's and they do not route, they just relay signal.  The advantage  is that this type of unit usually concentrates on signal amplification instead of other functions, and can result in higher outputs.  I was making the distinction because I was thinking about the higher output units like the type you see in hospitals and airports.  

 

Would you explain that to the piece of crap DLINK I have sitting outside my room!

[devee8]

I have had cat5E cables run from the ground floor to each floor (1 per floor) on the ground floor I was installing a wireless router which should have 4 ports to run off to each AP on each floor (1 per floor) there is only 3 rooms per floor and the floor area is aprox 45mtrs deep by 8mtrs wide. There is only ground, 1st, 2nd and 3rd floors.

[andyaus]

Sounds good so far. The wireless router will act as an AP. Set the SSID and Password on each device to be the same. I would also go into network settings and set the IP address to be different for ach device. You will have a range like 192.168.1.1 for the wireless router. The default on the AP is probably going to be 192.168.1.254 so you should change two of these to be different ie 192.168.1.253 and 192.168.1.252. That way you can “talk to each router” if you need to make any changes.

 

If you plug your PC into the back of the AP you can communicate with it by typing 192.168.1.254. into adress bar of explorer.

 

Don’t stress about this getting too technical. A simple screen will appear asking you for user name and password (probably admin and admin). Then the home screen will be self explanatory.

 

It might not do what I just said and the problem is likely to be your PC. You need to make sure that it is set for the same IP range as the router and AP or they won’t “talk”. This is pretty simple to change by going to “network places”, "View network connections" and then right click on "local area connection” Select “properties" and you will get a  list. Highlite the Internet protocol TCP/IP and right click to get properties. Tick the use the following IP address and put in the same address as your AP’s.  The only difference is the last digit which can be any thing except the numbers used for AP’s or your wireless router.

 

Note: Most routers have Dynamic IP adresses which simply mean they will automatically allocate an IP address to each device connected.  With guests logging on and off with phones, tablets and computers I find it best to allocate IP adresses to my computers at he end of the range to avoid conflicts. (eg 192.168.1.240 or something like that)

[Para]

Nothing I can add to the excellent advice Andyaus has given except that when the install is finished have a walk around with a laptop running something like Net Stumbler so you can check coverage and blind spots.

[devee8]

Thanks Guys excellent advice

[devee8]

OK it seems I am not as clever as I thought and it seems there maybe some type of conflict so I am now looking for a person to assist with configuring the router and 2 APs, Any suggestions ? It is working but I just feel something is not 100%

[Woofiee]

OK it seems I am not as clever as I thought and it seems there maybe some type of conflict so I am now looking for a person to assist with configuring the router and 2 APs, Any suggestions ? It is working but I just feel something is not 100%

 

By APs do you mean Airports? Did you get it working?

[Little Evil]

By APs do you mean Airports? Did you get it working?

 

Access Point. Like having three wireless routers, where one is the master and the other are slaves (very simple explanation of one possibility). They could be Airports, as that's just a trade name for a wireless router, but it depends on what he bought. 

 

I'm hoping someone there helps you out, but if for any crazy reason you're still out of luck in Nov, I'd be glad to stop by.  Not sure what you finally went with, but one quick question: If you are using wireless routers, are they all the same make/model? I've run into issues co-mingling different brands, despite supposed adherence to wifi standards and interoperability.