The economics of owning a bar in Pattaya

[billybob69]

I posted yesterday about a bar on Soi 6 that was recently refurbished, opened and then shortly after closed that is now on the market -

http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/62497-anyone-visited-amsterdamaged/page__st__12__p__995675#entry995675

 

It was advertised in yesterdays Bangkok Post Pattaya Business Section - for a whopping 3.65 THB! The rent is 30,000THB pcm with 'key money' (whatever that is) paid until Dec 2011.

 

Sad twat that I am, I was sat on Soi 6 and starting doing some figures on this.

If the monthly rent is 30,000 baht and bar fines are 300 baht, that means that the bar would have to have a least 100 bar fines a month or over 3 a day just to pay the rent. That's before you start paying the overheads including electricity for air-con, the girls wages and no forgetting the interest on a loan or return on investment.

 

I don’t even know that this ‘key money’ thing is.

 

So unless you have something like the Red Point Bar with a few hotties with multiple customers, I don’t see a Soi 6 bar as being a huge money spinner.

 

So the question is really how does anyone make any money out of bars in Pattaya?

[pattayaNL]

They also make money on the drinks?

[Spanky99]

They also make money on the drinks?

 

Never run a bar but have friends who did. They say you make most of your money on drinks. Its a razor thin margin no matter which way you slice it.

[miles stewart]

KEY MONEY is a fee charged at signing of each lease,basicly rental income is taxable,key money is not is a fiddle by the owner to pay less tax.

 

key money has to be worked in to your monthy bills aswell to give you an idea of what you need to take so you need to know how much the key money is.

 

i have a Thai friend who has a bar with a big room above it to live in,her rent is 6000 baht a month but her key money is 160000 a year.basily her rent is really 19333 baht a month but the landlord only pays tax on 72000 of it.

 

i also think key money is more a Pattaya thing i looked a a lot of places in Bangkok before i found my building but key money was never talked about,just a refundable depoist paid one time,as long as i leave the building how i found it i get my depsit back.

Edited September 28, 2010 by miles stewart

[Benny10]

KEY MONEY is a fee charged at signing of each lease,basicly rental income is taxable,key money is not is a fiddle by the owner to pay less tax.

 

key money has to be worked in to your monthy bills aswell to give you an idea of what you need to take so you need to know how much the key money is.

 

i have a Thai friend who has a bar with a big room above it to live in,her rent is 6000 baht a month but her key money is 160000 a year.basily her rent is really 19333 baht a month but the landlord only pays tax on 72000 of it.

 

i also think key money is more a Pattaya thing i looked a a lot of places in Bangkok before i found my building but key money was never talked about,just a refundable depoist paid one time,as long as i leave the building how i found it i get my depsit back.

A friend of mine runs a bar on Phuket, and he paid for a 3 year lease 1.2 million key money.

This may not be just a Pattaya thing then.

 

Apart from being a customer, I’m not involved in the bar business, but I think it’s quite common in tourist areas and again a question of supply and demand.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Benny10

[miles stewart]

A friend of mine runs a bar on Phuket, and he paid for a 3 year lease 1.2 million key money.

This may not be just a Pattaya thing then.

 

Apart from being a customer, I’m not involved in the bar business, but I think it’s quite common in tourist areas and again a question of supply and demand.

 

maybe its a bar or entertainment area thing then.

 

in Bangkok i have a 6 storey shop house,ground floor is shop area,all the rest is apartments for me to rent out. no key money but 50,000 refundable deposit had to be paid.none of the buildings i looked at asked for key money but all wanted a single deposit payment.

Edited September 28, 2010 by miles stewart

[Cerberus]

maybe its a bar or entertainment area thing then.

 

in Bangkok i have a 6 storey shop house,ground floor is shop area,all the rest is apartments for me to rent out. no key money but 50,000 refundable deposit had to be paid.none of the buildings i looked at asked for key money but all wanted a single deposit payment.

 

What area is this in, a bit personal so if you do not want to post here PM me please as I am just looking for some advice/knowledge really.

[granty108]

interesting thread, as has already been said i think the drinks are where they make most of their money, lady drinks have a massive mark up, look at the cost of an orange juice lady drink, and what you can buy orange juice for in Big C. it can be done, the girls just need to bring the customers in! this leads me on to another question.... how does a bar find good looking girls? with the right working attitude to work the bar? is it just a word of mouth thing or do guys go round poaching girls from other bars?

[Tansak KTV]

how does a bar find good looking girls? with the right working attitude to work the bar? is it just a word of mouth thing or do guys go round poaching girls from other bars?

 

We don't have enough trouble with 1 girl? Who in their right mind would want to manage 30?

[SlickMonkey]

Also, running a bar ISNT as easy as bringing in some smoking hot girls. ...

 

IF the girls are really hot then they will be constantly bought out early and you wont have any one sitting in the bar drinking.

IF the girls are ugly then they will sit around all day and nobody will come in to drink.

 

The key is to find girls who are hot but don't necessarily like to be bought out and want to sit around and get drunk with mongers in the bar. Hopefully they will stay till closing then barfine out about 30 min prior to closing time.

 

Just my 2 cents...

Edited September 28, 2010 by SlickMonkey

[Tansak KTV]

The key is to find girls who are hot but don't necessarily like to be bought out and want to sit around and get drunk with mongers in the bar. Hopefully they will stay till closing then barfine out about 30 min prior to closing time.

 

What dream world are you living in?

 

1) Show me a girl who doesn't want a sponsor and wants to stay in a bar?

2) Show me girls that never try to move up to a higher class bar?

3) Show me a girl that is smoking hot that wants to sit in a dingy bar being fondled all night long for 50 baht (her share of LD's) instead of getting 3 K (if she's hot she's only going to go for big money) for one or two quick pops... With the... I'm hungry... let's go shopping... I need AIS refill card... etc...

 

If it was this easy and simple don't you think a bar would never shut down?

 

Do you ever notice the turn over in Pattaya??? The hot girls leave and the ugly ones go home... For the most part it is the moderate looking ones that stay in the same bars for years and years. The girls I know that I consider HOT switch bars all the time. From Soi 6 to Windmill to Bacarra to Sponsorship to cheating and back at Happy or Bacarra...

 

Do you know the headaches you get from these girls? Do you speak or understand Thai at all? Just sit around Soi 6 where conversations from the girls are more open... the CRAP they talk about and such is amazing... I get a headache just thinking about being involved with actually trying to WORK with these ladies (remember they are whores right) and to have your life and income dependent upon a collection of whores?

 

Don't get me wrong I love and respect these girls but the bottom line is they will SCREW for money so they will surely SCREW you as your boss over. What I find amazing is that many guys go and invest and buy a bar without knowing the rules or laws or speak the language...

Edited September 28, 2010 by Tansak KTV

[Spanky99]

What dream world are you living in?

 

1) Show me a girl who doesn't want a sponsor and wants to stay in a bar?

2) Show me girls that never try to move up to a higher class bar?

3) Show me a girl that is smoking hot that wants to sit in a dingy bar being fondled all night long for 50 baht (her share of LD's) instead of getting 3 K (if she's hot she's only going to go for big money) for one or two quick pops... With the... I'm hungry... let's go shopping... I need AIS refill card... etc...

 

If it was this easy and simple don't you think a bar would never shut down?

 

Do you ever notice the turn over in Pattaya??? The hot girls leave and the ugly ones go home... For the most part it is the moderate looking ones that stay in the same bars for years and years. The girls I know that I consider HOT switch bars all the time. From Soi 6 to Windmill to Bacarra to Sponsorship to cheating and back at Happy or Bacarra...

 

Do you know the headaches you get from these girls? Do you speak or understand Thai at all? Just sit around Soi 6 where conversations from the girls are more open... the CRAP they talk about and such is amazing... I get a headache just thinking about being involved with actually trying to WORK with these ladies (remember they are whores right) and to have your life and income dependent upon a collection of whores?

 

Don't get me wrong I love and respect these girls but the bottom line is they will SCREW for money so they will surely SCREW you as your boss over. What I find amazing is that many guys go and invest and buy a bar without knowing the rules or laws or speak the language...

 

Damn you and your pesky dose of reality!

[Tansak KTV]

how does a bar find good looking girls? with the right working attitude to work the bar? is it just a word of mouth thing or do guys go round poaching girls from other bars?

 

Most girls go to work where friends work. Rarely do I know of girls that just walk up without knowing someone who works at the bar. There are so many bars and yes they do go to new bars but usually in pairs. Most girls come down from Isaan and work where cousin / friend / relative works or did work. That is why you can find some stunners at Soi 6 or Windmill or other crappy places. Like Ning and Pui at Bacarra and even my LT girl worked at Windmill before... but they moved over to a higher end place.

 

Many of my favorite girls on Soi 6 moved over to WS gogo's instead of taking 1-3 customers a day for 700 to 1000 baht they are getting 800 to 1000 baht in drinks and tips a night, a higher salary, customers that pay them 2 to 3 k a night, nicer level of customers they tell me usually, and sponsors that send them money.

 

But I surely did meet them at crappy places before they moved on.

 

As I say repeatedly the dynamics of pattaya change way too fast and too often. You can't tell me that a crappy bar has no talent. They might have not had talent at the NIGHT you went, but that doesnt' mean you don't find some gems sometimes. Beer Bars are usually older, rougher, more chubby girls... but as we all know there are some seriously wonderful little angels that work beer bars you just gotta find them, get them, before they move on or get snatched up...

 

The hunt is always on in pattaya....

[Tansak KTV]

Damn you and your pesky dose of reality!

 

I'm cheap whore also, pay me 3,000 baht and for 5 hours I'll tell you anything you want to hear handsum man....

 

Honestly come on folks... We as mongers CAN NOT stay with 1 lady... We each have our own reasons, fat lazy cheating bad with money abusive mental no good sex family issues...(that's the girls issues we not even talking about our own issues) whatever reason we can't stand the one lady we are with...

 

So we go to Thailand and start a bar when we know we can not stay with one lady. So picture putting your life's savings and depending upon 15 of these ladies to actually do work be honest to actually make you have a life or make a little living... We can't stand being with one lady but hey... working with 15 or more ladies will make your life just wonderful...

 

To all you bar owners out there... let me bring you some Tums or Rolaids (antacid) over to you folks... I did my try at this crap and the Last thing I want to do is get involved with 15 or 30 bar girl problems... Even if you got a mamasan you still are taking shit. Best way to own a bar is make it a corporation and you don't have ANY management responsibilities. If you think it will cost you 10,000,000 baht walk in with 30,000,000 baht with still getting a monthly stipend from other places...

 

Granted there are VERY good bars and bar owners here on PA.. but do you think they will chime in and tell us all how much they SUNK into the business (lost) already or how many headaches and problems they have? And once successful do you think they will tell us how much they make? Hell NO... why would they be so stupid to do that. Why give away a blueprint to make it work. Far more fail then survive and the ones that survive are being supported by outside funds...

 

But it just amazes me that folks think things are easy to do in life like running a bar in Pattaya...

Edited September 28, 2010 by Tansak KTV

[SlickMonkey]

What dream world are you living in?

 

1) Show me a girl who doesn't want a sponsor and wants to stay in a bar?

2) Show me girls that never try to move up to a higher class bar?

3) Show me a girl that is smoking hot that wants to sit in a dingy bar being fondled all night long for 50 baht (her share of LD's) instead of getting 3 K (if she's hot she's only going to go for big money) for one or two quick pops... With the... I'm hungry... let's go shopping... I need AIS refill card... etc...

 

If it was this easy and simple don't you think a bar would never shut down?

 

Do you ever notice the turn over in Pattaya??? The hot girls leave and the ugly ones go home... For the most part it is the moderate looking ones that stay in the same bars for years and years. The girls I know that I consider HOT switch bars all the time. From Soi 6 to Windmill to Bacarra to Sponsorship to cheating and back at Happy or Bacarra...

 

Do you know the headaches you get from these girls? Do you speak or understand Thai at all? Just sit around Soi 6 where conversations from the girls are more open... the CRAP they talk about and such is amazing... I get a headache just thinking about being involved with actually trying to WORK with these ladies (remember they are whores right) and to have your life and income dependent upon a collection of whores?

 

Don't get me wrong I love and respect these girls but the bottom line is they will SCREW for money so they will surely SCREW you as your boss over. What I find amazing is that many guys go and invest and buy a bar without knowing the rules or laws or speak the language...

 

I totally agree with you, I meant to say... "Also, running a bar its ISN'T as easy as bringing in some smoking hot girls.

IF the girls are really hot then they will be constantly bought out early and you wont have any one sitting in the bar drinking.

IF the girls are ugly then they will sit around all day and nobody will come in to drink.

 

The key is to find girls who are hot but don't necessarily like to be bought out and want to sit around and get drunk with mongers in the bar. Hopefully they will stay till closing then barfine out about 30 min prior to closing time.

 

Just my 2 cents..."

 

I agree with you totally. I should have re-read my spelling before I posted it.

Edited September 28, 2010 by SlickMonkey

[layow]

What I find amazing is that many guys go and invest and buy a bar without knowing the rules or laws or speak the language.

 

I'll add and many have spent less than few months "holidaying in los" have

"done zero due diligence and never ran a bar" and are "trying to appease a gf"

[Frank446]

When a bar owner was asked why he had some smoking hot girls and plenty of plain girls he replied "Someone has to do some work like cleaning the bar ,emptying the ash trays and serving the customers who are just there for a dink." He also said the crackers were normally lazy and only served drinks to those customers they thought were going to BF them.It takes all kinds to make it work.

[Daveo]

One of the most common sayings in Pattaya, " I used to have a bar "

[Clive kup]

start off with dead brain cells and be an Alcy with visions of grandure and away you go.

[Perthie]

Only slightly on-topic, but the average time for a new small business to go from start-up to going broke is 3 years, and that's a standard business in a 'civilised' western country. Under-capitalisation, lack of experience from new business owners, the stress of long hard working hours, relationship troubles caused by the long working hours - all these knock a lot of people straight back out of the market.

Even if you're cashed up to the max and can buy a successful business, inexperience can still send you broke pretty fast for all the same reasons.

Now move to LOS and add a dozen or so bar-girls, waitresses etc, all seeing the farang as fair game for a bit of light-fingering of the stock and cash from the till, let alone kickbacks to the local cops etc etc......

Run a bar in Pattaya, no thanks. Sounds great, but the few that have really made it over there were probably a seething mass of stomach ulcers and hair-loss before they got it all worked out. It ain't all beer and pussy when you've got bills to pay.

Cheers

Perthie