Speaking Thai well in Pattaya?

[Dr.Winston]

Hello Dr., negative opinions have nothing to do with it. As it was my job dealing with confrontation negative people at-least 20-50 times a day. I have been certified in the best Los Angeles Police Academy, & Air[port Police classes & training on dealing with such individuals, on a verbal basis. I'm not about to use verbal judo to convince someone to change a preconceived opinion someone already has. Better to let them learn in whatever manner it takes, or even never at all, I have nothing at stake. The stats I read as to what happens to farangs just makes my newspaper reading a little more interesting. Communication is 2 ways, one makes a statement, the second concurs or disagrees, whether or not they both adopt the others side it is still communication as long as both are willing to listen to the others opinion. Not my job to sway anyone's thinking. When I feel that I am no longer of service it is a waste of my time, certainly not to change a belief someone already has. Experience is that teacher.

 

I am surprised this even got through, I will remain in the topic but will only offer my input where I think it may do some good. I have long time friends some who I met here many yrs ago who cause themselves the same frustration, & aggravation trip after trip. They are my friends, I don't even offer advice unless they ask for it. They sometimes ask favors which I refuse to do. Like looking up a GF to gave money to until their next trip here. My answer has never changed NO. As my friend I don't want to ever walk in to a bar, or show up at her residence & try to give my buddy's GF money while she sucking someone dick. I don't play kill the messenger, I gave them the bad news who do think their angry with?

 

PA is about in my mind expats & mongers providing advice to each other, some of the very same guys who once gave advice will still fall victim to that very same advice. But having a closed mind & set in one's ways leaves learning by experience the only way.

 

Not sure of all functions of the website I would assume since I got this post after I unsubscribed I have cancelled that request, by replying.

My point was that I detected what I perceived as frustration in your earlier post....I agree with what you say about people with closed minds. Indeed it's not our responsibility to open up their minds, probably a futile endeavour especially if attempted in a challenging way.

 

However negative views on a thread might be thrown better into perspective if there are more positive comments on the topic in the same thread. People are then free to read all the opinions and experiences, good and bad and make their own minds up.

[joltme1313]

im sorry to see that thread is taking a negative turn here.. as a newbie to learning thai i find it motivating and interesting to hear everyones opinions about speaking and learning thai.

 

i just got back from thailand 2 weeks ago and i had a blast speaking thai with everyone. i was really having some good conversations with everyone. i only met 2 to 3 thai girls who werent interested in talking thai with me but that was not a problem because for those 3 there were 50 more who loved my thai. especially when i sang some old thai elementary school songs and the chang (elephant) song.. they also loved the itsy bitsy spider one too. we all had some great laughs. when i was on the prowl i would keep my thai to myself until the ice was broken and then let it rip and it was cool 99% of the time. when in the hotel and going to stores and shopping or speaking to vendors it was all thai. taxi guys and tour sales people was all thai. i learned more in 3 weeks of speaking everyday then i did in 6 months of 3 hours a day at home. ive been speaking for 1 full year total. but the 3 weeks were such a pay off. now im starting to learn to read and write.

 

everyone keep the stories coming and the advice. and dont worry about the negative people. just ignore them..

[dillpickles]

Nice read, you'll do fine, learning Thai is much easier when you can fun with it. A you said once the ice is broken, then Thais will be lot more receptive to speaking with you, when they feel your wanting to learn is genuine. If you walk into a bar & immediately start out speaking that gives Thais present the impression you already feel you know everything, even if it's poor speech, it gives the impression you are speaking down to them, with just a little knowledge of the language. Consequently they see you as someone who they have no interesting in helping, because you give the impression of arrogance.

 

Once you have broken the ice as you say, you will find BGs who will spent much time with helping you. You won't even have to buy lady drinks, but it would be a nice touch. I've had LTGFs who would spend hrs. with me even correct spelling mistakes in my grammar books. After being away many yrs. my Thai has become rusty, I can no longer recite the alphabet, nor wirte it. & when I do speak they feel I know much more than I remember. So I have tell them Chi Ta yeesip pee te lao phoot Thai keang, ta deo nee luem mak, kit mi ork, phoot Thai mueingun, dec-dec, kortort, phoot cha cha noi. khorp. That literally means I spoke very well 20 yrs ago, but have forgotten much, my ability to think in Thai has flown out of my head, & I now speak as a baby, please speak slowly. Usually get a big laugh, they say OK, ok & speak more slowly.

 

There is also a perceived attitude with speaking Thai, which is all tonal, if you speak to everyone as though they are above up you in station they respect that greatly. If they suspect you are annoyed, or your body language gives that impression then the encounter will immediately start down hill. You won't be able to detect it because smiling is a gene. So the more you speak & the more they smile, the move likely the incident will get more detailed & further from you getting what your asking for.

 

No matter how much learn remember when they want to Thais, can always talk around you if they choose. When they are not sure just how much you speak they then whisper. Don't be afraid of being laughed at. After a good laugh they will tell you your mistake. Doesn't work in reverse. My wife has a large family, 5 sisters all married, the littlest ones are all over me practicing what they learned in school & usually provide me the mostly help. The older family members can speak but won't no more than ask what I want to eat, or where I want to go, because they are shy. Even though they are computer literate in English. My wife spoke no English when I took her to the U.S.

 

When we got married I had no family in Los Angeles but one old aunt, we did a civil court wedding, my aunt as witness. I told the judge our situation, ask her if when at the time of her vows if I could translate into Thai so she would understand. The judge said she have never encountered such a problem but made a call. She that will be OK. We went through the vows, as my old aunt attempted to take pic's , but at her age she was cutting our heads off, taking pic's of her finger, or the floor. The judge finally took the camera & got some shots of use together.

 

WE get home after the ceremony. my wife said why were you asking me such crazy questions? I said what are you talking about. She said you asked if I would still love you if you eat cheese in bed, if I'll still love you if the wall clock has a dead battery, & so on. All I could say I was nervous, & couldn't translate in my mind fast enough to keep up with the judge. I go never mind we are still married, just glad you remembered to say yes to everything.

 

I think I stated here before just as important as speaking is knowing when to keep quiet. For you younger guys don't get involved in an argument. If there is some type of confrontation between your lady & anyone let her sort it out, if you think that can't be done remove you & her from the situation. If your confronted on the street play dumb.

 

Here is one of my examples as I have many. 2 yrs ago My brother-n-law is a Bangkok meter taxi driver. He was driving us & family here. We got stopped by the 4 police just outside of a road toll booth. They asked the driver where we going, then who I was & where I come from. After being told, he explained that him & his buddy's didn't have any money for coffee & donuts. They wanted 300 THB. I didn't say a word, I passed my brother-n-law my Airport Police Badge & I.D. Then they say Oh, OK, but do you think he ( me) could give something as a professional courtesy, with that I reached in my pocket & gave them 50THB. Off we were. I had choose to speak without being addressed the whole situation could have went south. Like, well you might be police in the U.S. but your just another farang here, which would resulted in wanting to see my passport, maybe wanting to search the vehicle, among other things to delay us. But had they stated the 50 THB was not enough, & contiued to gives us greif, I would have asked for a supervison, maybe he'd like to know his officers are putting the bite on farangs.

 

ON my second trip here 1982 in Don Muang eager to use my newly learned Thai from the Thai Ambassador's wife. I ordered breakfast I won't go into the phonetic conversation but after I ordered, the waitress said to me in English. Where do you come from? I said I'm American, she said America must be a wonderful country. I asked why would you say that. She said you have buffalo eggs? I said no. She said then why would think we have them here? What? Well that's what you ordered.

 

Not disturbed my by mistake I go outside, get a taxi, where are you going, in Thai I said Oh anywhere will be fine. The driver looks at me & says lets try this in English, & off we went.

 

MY Thai has slipped to the point although my wife & mother-n-law understand me perfectly, conversations with others who don't know me, I sometimes get a look of puzzlement, which then requires a deeper explanation of what I'm asking for.

 

So if you love LOS & want to speak, learn to do so, but also learn how to use it would out arrogance, or intimidating the people your speaking to.

Edited November 22, 2010 by dillpickles

[Dr.Winston]

My experiences of speaking Thai in Pattaya are all good really. You do meet the occasional person who views the fact that you speak it as an inconvenience but it's pretty rare.

 

It's all about communication, I find that once BG's relax with me they'll let me in on all kinds of private stuff, stuff I might not even want know actually. I think many are put off when they start to learn Thai because it can take a while to get an ear (and a tongue)for the language. When I was first learning Thai many of the words sounded identical to me even though now they sound totally different. For a long time I couldn't really distinguish tones which are obviously of utmost importance in the Thai language. At the beginning I would swear I was saying a word correctly because when they corrected me I honestly couldn't even hear the difference on many occasions.

 

Thinking from Thai persons perspective a lot of the foreigners attempts to speak Thai can't sound very easy on their ears, and if they can't understand you then it's making communication an effort. I think that once your Thai becomes good it then becomes effective communication rather than a kind of party trick. A lot of farangs will use their limited Thai in a disjointed way, they'll chat for 10 minutes in English and then order their beer in Thai, nothing wrong with that but it's not really adding any more depth to the conversation. I don't mean that in an elitist way I'm just saying that the full rewards don't show themselves until the standard of your Thai makes it effective communication. IMO anybody who reaches a good standard of Thai will find that it goes down well with the locals and will open doors others won't even know are there.

[joltme1313]

dillpickles and dr o'boogie,

 

dill,

i agree 100% with both posts. one of the first things i learned is poot praaw.. when i first meet new people i always try to say kuhn pee for older people and kuhn nong for younger people and i always say khrap at the end of almost every sentence. then when i get more comfortable with them and them with me i lay off the khrap a little bit to get a more natural conversation going. i think i try to use the thai style when talking thai which is always have a big smile on my face and show interest in everything they have to say whether i understand or not. i havent spoken to any police and i havent had and arguments with anyone and if i did i wouldnt argue in thai. matter of fact i wouldnt even let the police know i can speak thai. i had one bad well not bad but awkward situation that i think falls into the category of what you mean by arrogant by being misunderstood. i went to a gogo with one my buddies and i asked them mamasan in thai about the girl he was looking for and he had given me the wrong number on her badge. so, after a couple of minutes i think she lost patience with me and said something very quickly in thai. i didnt understand and then she said to the wiatress in thai something about me being able to talk but not understand . im sure it wasnt anything nice and she didnt have the usual fake smile. lesson learned. dont talk thai in noisy go go's. i also know what you mean by your family understands you 100% but sometimes others cannot.. my girl friend knows what i mean when i speak certain things.. and she should because she taught them to me. but she doesnt correct me all the time when i speak incorrectly, she just continues on with the conversation. this is ok except for when i try to say the same thing to someone new and they give me the "i dont understand smile.." which i learned to recognize.. lol..

 

dr,

 

one thing i did do is that if i was in a bar or somewhere that i couldnt have a decent conversation or hear very well i wouldnt speak thai. sometimes it just makes the communication worse speaking half thai half english with someone who doesnt understand bad thai and english.. so after the first few butchered conversations i waited until i felt confident that i could make good conversation then i had a go. that seemed to work best. i really enjoyed getting past the what your name, where you from talk. luckily i didnt really get and sob stories or things i didnt want to hear.

i do think my ear is improving quickly. sometimes i hear the differences in the tones or even words that have the same tone but longer sounds.. like tham= to do, and thaam= to ask.. or the double use of one word. im learning that placement in the sentence changes the meaning like the word gawn=before.. or sometimes it means first when placed at the end of a sentence. these little nuances make understanding and conversation flow so much easier.

i know this sounds funny but one of my favorite conversations was with a taxi driver where we spoke about his car. we talked about engine parts and how he pays his insurance and monthly salary. i know its boring in english but it felt like things were coming together and i was having a real conversation besides the normal everyday talk about things like ordering food and making travel plans. i did have many talks like this one but it just stuck in my head..

 

jolt

[dillpickles]

one thing i did do is that if i was in a bar or somewhere that i couldn't have a decent conversation or hear very well i wouldn't speak thai. sometimes it just makes the communication worse speaking half thai half english with someone who doesnt understand bad thai and english..

 

Very well put. being retired here now 7 mo. I find the rustiness is slowly coming off when I was at my best 25-30 yrs ago. However being married, mongering days way over with my wife's English better than my Thai, & the fact we are almost always together except when she shops, being seen with her shopping inflates prices whether or not I speak. I find myself using it mostly when we are making a purchase of say some electronic device, after maybe questioning my wife on the function I am interesting in which she may not understand then I'll get involved. Or ordering say a food item to my taste, but once again my wife knows my tastes.

 

I hate wondering up & down market aisles looking for something & my wife hates asking where something is. Which usually involves a lengthy conversation because I don't know how to describe the product I want in Thai. Another reason for back to school after the holidays. Already checked on the Whalen just around the corner from Carrefour.

 

I too when first learning thought I could ignore tones, by using more vocabulary, with 40% of my right ear function left in Vietnam, but learned differently after some embarrassing, sometimes unintended insulting instances. Its a 2 way street, while sister has a hard time understanding my wife, my mother didn't. Doesn't happen to me often now but when I request something in Thai & get the look of puzzlement. I'd ask the clerk where she comes from she would politely explain she is Thai, then I'd ask if you are Thai how come you don't understand Thai?

 

I'd get a variety of answers always with a laugh. Like you don't speak Thai- Thai you speak farang Thai not the same. I said but surely you have had farangs who have spoke in Thai before, she'd reply yes & each one of you speaks different Thai farang. Maybe if you spoke Thai to each other better. But then we wouldn't be learning.

 

Thais that are accustomed to farangs who speak Thai, can adjust for the fact that all of us farangs are influenced by the accent of our origin, which effects our Thai accent. Many yrs ago my New York accent all but gone now mixed with my Thai, had Thais asking if I came from Korat.