Rent or Own Condo in Thailand?

[QuotaMan]

I've seen the point brought up in several threads about buying property compared to renting it for expats in Pattaya/Thailand.

 

I see both sides in terms of the property being solely used by the purchaser to live in (and not as a rent out/investment property).

 

The pros of buying a condo (a condo purchased outright for the purposes of this discussion) include:

 

- One time investment (outside of property taxes, etc.)

- Won't add to your monthly bills

 

The pros of renting a condo

 

- If living situation is not good (neighbors, area, country unstable, etc.), you can pick up and leave to another area or country

 

In terms of total cost, let's say a one bedroom studio costs 7500 baht a month to rent, and same style costs 600,000 baht to purchase. If you rent, it would take 8 years of living there before it equaled purchase cost.

 

So if you are in it for the long haul, would it make more sense to buy, or is there too much unknowns to commit?

 

No doubt I don't have much knowledge in this area.

[Edge]

I would advise anyone to rent, but I bought.

 

One thing that draws people into "owning", whether it's a Condo' or a House, is that feeling that it's yours and you can decorate and equip it as you please (more so houses than condo's of course).

 

Unfortunately the problems if you decide you need to sell outweigh the advantages.

 

In trying to find the compromise, some people will buy a cheap studio condo' (= room with toilet) to limit the risk of loss etc., but then you are settling for less in terms of your quality of life.

It's not an easy judgement for everybody, unless of course you can afford it.

[stevxpl]

I'd advise to rent just going from how the rules in Thailand tend to change like the wind.

 

Then I look around at all the places up for sale, with new condos/housing estates constantly going up with quality levels increasing selling something that is a couple of years old gets harder and harder unless you want to take a hit and sell for less than you bought for.

 

The other issue with buying a Condo is that you have to deal with the up keep of the building, this is usually contracted to a 3rd party company that looks after everything but there are more than a few condos in Pattaya/Jomtien where up keep of the building is not being done because the money that you are paying in yearly management fees is not being spent so in turn your investment starts to depreciate outside of your control.

 

The best thing about renting is that if you don't like the area after a year or so you can easily pack up and move, not to mention not be the least bit worried about any changes in laws or governments for that matter. You never know, the government might decide to crack down on the P4P scene in Pattaya to attract a more family orientated tourist market and completely change you feelings about Pattaya.

[gerry53]

I agree with the above completely and another problem with ownership is having neighbors ( farang or Thai ) that have

mental health, substance abuse issues or just plain noisey. In the west it is easier to get to get an eviction, here it involves losing face and many other issues. As a renter you can pack up and leave, as the owner it's not so easy even if you have to rent it out.

[ExpatDave]

I guess I have a different point of view. I bought a condo here and am glad I did.

 

But, Since I am working here for a few years, it makes more sense. The place I have is brand new and should still be a fairly good shape when I retire. I may end up buying a house and use the condo as a rental unit.

 

Anyway, only time will tell.

[Expat46]

rent - rent - rent !

A good condo today, can in no time turn into a noisy shit hole tomorrow. If you buy it - you're screwed - if you rent = you just move out. Noisy neighbors who install a new bathroom 8am-11pm - karaoke move in on land adjacent to your condo and play music 7pm-6am ........

 

Only if you can afford to buy a upper end condo - with decent working manager - security - and relative strict rules, would I consider to buy.

 

Remember: after you buy it might be very hard (take years) to sell, at least to a acceptable price.

 

"If you are in for the long haul" - most think so when they buy - but after 5 + years later, you might wish to leave Pattaya for good.

 

If you still decide to buy - look for a small building - less neighbors, less renovation going on. And check the land around, any karaoke etc. Plus security guards who actually work and act on complaints, not sleep/drunk.

[QuotaMan]

I'd advise to rent just going from how the rules in Thailand tend to change like the wind.

 

Then I look around at all the places up for sale, with new condos/housing estates constantly going up with quality levels increasing selling something that is a couple of years old gets harder and harder unless you want to take a hit and sell for less than you bought for.

 

The other issue with buying a Condo is that you have to deal with the up keep of the building, this is usually contracted to a 3rd party company that looks after everything but there are more than a few condos in Pattaya/Jomtien where up keep of the building is not being done because the money that you are paying in yearly management fees is not being spent so in turn your investment starts to depreciate outside of your control.

 

The best thing about renting is that if you don't like the area after a year or so you can easily pack up and move, not to mention not be the least bit worried about any changes in laws or governments for that matter. You never know, the government might decide to crack down on the P4P scene in Pattaya to attract a more family orientated tourist market and completely change you feelings about Pattaya.

 

That's very true, up keep isn't something I thought about in the long term. I also agree about freedom of movement.

 

 

I agree with the above completely and another problem with ownership is having neighbors ( farang or Thai ) that have

mental health, substance abuse issues or just plain noisey. In the west it is easier to get to get an eviction, here it involves losing face and many other issues. As a renter you can pack up and leave, as the owner it's not so easy even if you have to rent it out.

 

That's one of the biggest worries, your neighbors or the surrounding area (went through that in my own country, not fun at all)

 

I guess I have a different point of view. I bought a condo here and am glad I did.

 

But, Since I am working here for a few years, it makes more sense. The place I have is brand new and should still be a fairly good shape when I retire. I may end up buying a house and use the condo as a rental unit.

 

Anyway, only time will tell.

 

I do like the option of owning something. I guess it would be better if I could pay for all of it at once and still have extra money to use for other purposes in settling down in Thailand. Then if the living situation is not good, you can move but maybe rent it out.

 

rent - rent - rent !

A good condo today, can in no time turn into a noisy shit hole tomorrow. If you buy it - you're screwed - if you rent = you just move out. Noisy neighbors who install a new bathroom 8am-11pm - karaoke move in on land adjacent to your condo and play music 7pm-6am ........

 

Only if you can afford to buy a upper end condo - with decent working manager - security - and relative strict rules, would I consider to buy.

 

Remember: after you buy it might be very hard (take years) to sell, at least to a acceptable price.

 

"If you are in for the long haul" - most think so when they buy - but after 5 + years later, you might wish to leave Pattaya for good.

 

If you still decide to buy - look for a small building - less neighbors, less renovation going on. And check the land around, any karaoke etc. Plus security guards who actually work and act on complaints, not sleep/drunk.

 

Again, I agree, the biggest issue is what happens in the future, neighbor/neighborhood wise or even country wise. That's a good point to look closely at the neighborhood, the area, and other factors before purchasing.

[ExpatDave]

That's very true, up keep isn't something I thought about in the long term. I also agree about freedom of movement.

 

 

 

 

That's one of the biggest worries, your neighbors or the surrounding area (went through that in my own country, not fun at all)

 

 

 

I do like the option of owning something. I guess it would be better if I could pay for all of it at once and still have extra money to use for other purposes in settling down in Thailand. Then if the living situation is not good, you can move but maybe rent it out.

 

 

 

Again, I agree, the biggest issue is what happens in the future, neighbor/neighborhood wise or even country wise. That's a good point to look closely at the neighborhood, the area, and other factors before purchasing.

 

I agree that you have to pick the right neighborhood. Also, find out what other properties they manage and how they stand up.

 

But, in the long run, owning can be beneficial. If you know for sure Pattaya is where you want to retire, owning a few properties can help increase your income.

 

I know several people who are just living off the rent of the condos they own.

 

You really need to do your homework and make sure you have people you trust to take care of your place when you are gone.

 

The place I am buying now will probably be a rental property. My guess is I will buy house to live in.

 

This still can be done, with out a lot cash, as long as you start early enough. My goal is to retire in 15 years. I hope to have 2 rental places to keep at least a little money flowing in.

 

If you take a look at the economy of other countries and the shape of the stock market, investing in property is looking better and better.

 

 

Just sayin......

Edited August 20, 2010 by ExpatDave

[QuotaMan]

I agree that you have to pick the right neighborhood. Also, find out what other properties they manage and how they stand up.

 

But, in the long run, owning can be beneficial. If you know for sure Pattaya is where you want to retire, owning a few properties can help increase your income.

 

I know several people who are just living off the rent of the condos they own.

 

You really need to do your homework and make sure you have people you trust to take care of your place when you are gone.

 

The place I am buying now will probably be a rental property. My guess is I will buy house to live in.

 

This still can be done, with out a lot cash, as long as you start early enough. My goal is to retire in 15 years. I hope to have 2 rental places to keep at least a little money flowing in.

 

If you take a look at the economy of other countries and the shape of the stock market, investing in property is looking better and better.

 

 

Just sayin......

 

This is something I would be interested in. I wouldn't mind buying a few properties if I could and renting some out and living in one. I have had noting but bad luck in the U.S. real estate market. For the price of some properties in the U.S. I could buy multiple ones in Thailand.

[Al.]

The majority of those that rent will most likely tell you to rent whereas the majority of those that have bought will most likely tell you to buy.

 

I suspect that there are more people renting than actually own their own property therefore most likely the majority will tell you to rent.

 

If this were a democracy you would have to go with the majority and rent even though it may not necessarily be the best option but them again it may be.

 

Bear in mind also that there are some people who are renting because they cannot afford to buy so would that affect the outcome.

 

The answer to these questions and many more can be found at

Edited August 21, 2010 by Al.

[galt67]

Ask yourself ONE question--WHY do you want to buy?

 

For most people, the answer is: the 'psychological' and 'emotional' security that you OWN 'something'. Permanent and 'can never be taken away'.

 

Now put aside the psychology and emotional reasons and THINK about the financial/practical considerations.

 

What if you want to sell? NOT easy nor quick in Thailand. And seeking out 'good rents' to let it can be VERY difficult.

 

What if you like the place but the neighbors our LOUD and keep you up all night? And you have ZERO recourse.

 

What if the 'beautiful view' that your place now has is RUINED by the building of another condo tower in front of yours?

 

Bottom line: You will find FAR, FAR many more happy renters then you will happy owners.

[chris2004]

Why do you think there are so many 'buy to rent' landlords? because they make money of course. Renting is much more expensive than buying (over the long term). I paid 3.4 m baht for my condo (luckily when the pound was at 71). To rent would be about 300,000 - 350,000 a year. I intend to stay until I croak, who knows maybe 20 years. After 20 years I would have paid 6-7 m baht in rent and end up with nothing. Buying i've spent 3.4 m baht and have an asset worth ? well who knows to pass onto my tgf but still worth several million.

[dc_publius]

If you buy a cheap condo, you will always have a cheap place to live.

 

Thailand is growing quickly, baht is gaining value. Just look at how backwards BKK was 10 year ago. It's unrecognizable and so are the prices vs now. In 10 years time, you will likewise not recognize the BKK of today, including prices. You will not be able to rent a condo for 10K baht forever, you know.

 

Sure, you may get crappy neighbors, but that is not the end of the world. Stuff in the condo will break and you will have to fix it. There are drawbacks and hassles to owning. But you can always sell. The reason why it takes a long time for some places to sell is because people want waaaay too much money. If you discount to appropriate comparable value, you can sell in month or a week or a day, depending on the price you set for the property. And even if you sell your 4M baht condo for 4M baht in 5 years, you are way ahead because all the money you would otherwise spend on rent.

 

The biggest drawback to ownership is that you have to stay in one place for a while. If you get a new job and are faced with a long commute things can be a pain for sure.

[gerry53]

Why do you think there are so many 'buy to rent' landlords? because they make money of course. Renting is much more expensive than buying (over the long term). I paid 3.4 m baht for my condo (luckily when the pound was at 71). To rent would be about 300,000 - 350,000 a year. I intend to stay until I croak, who knows maybe 20 years. After 20 years I would have paid 6-7 m baht in rent and end up with nothing. Buying i've spent 3.4 m baht and have an asset worth ? well who knows to pass onto my tgf but still worth several million.

 

The condo I rent is valued at 3.4 M baht also but landlord only getting 16K longterm or less than 200K per year. He has to pay all condo fees for security, management, special fees, repairs etc - you have to take all of that into consideration also. In my native country I can average a 10% return on that 3.4 M baht (or dollar equivilent) and this more than pays for my condo rent. I also can pick up and move to any other Thai area I please or country if things get "hot" here. I can easily move if bad neighbors move in or a noisey bar appears close by.

 

Some people love ownership and roots, I won't knock your Desire because I did the home ownership all my life. But in my retirement I want flexibility and freedom.

Edited August 22, 2010 by gerry53

[QuotaMan]

The majority of those that rent will most likely tell you to rent whereas the majority of those that have bought will most likely tell you to buy.

 

I suspect that there are more people renting than actually own their own property therefore most likely the majority will tell you to rent.

 

If this were a democracy you would have to go with the majority and rent even though it may not necessarily be the best option but them again it may be.

 

Bear in mind also that there are some people who are renting because they cannot afford to buy so would that affect the outcome.

 

The answer to these questions and many more can be found at

 

Good points.

 

Ask yourself ONE question--WHY do you want to buy?

 

For most people, the answer is: the 'psychological' and 'emotional' security that you OWN 'something'. Permanent and 'can never be taken away'.

 

Now put aside the psychology and emotional reasons and THINK about the financial/practical considerations.

 

What if you want to sell? NOT easy nor quick in Thailand. And seeking out 'good rents' to let it can be VERY difficult.

 

What if you like the place but the neighbors our LOUD and keep you up all night? And you have ZERO recourse.

 

What if the 'beautiful view' that your place now has is RUINED by the building of another condo tower in front of yours?

 

Bottom line: You will find FAR, FAR many more happy renters then you will happy owners.

 

Good points also. Owning something is always something that has always appealed to me. But I suppose issues with neighbors, etc., is magnified many times more in a foreign country with different standards and cultures.

 

Why do you think there are so many 'buy to rent' landlords? because they make money of course. Renting is much more expensive than buying (over the long term). I paid 3.4 m baht for my condo (luckily when the pound was at 71). To rent would be about 300,000 - 350,000 a year. I intend to stay until I croak, who knows maybe 20 years. After 20 years I would have paid 6-7 m baht in rent and end up with nothing. Buying i've spent 3.4 m baht and have an asset worth ? well who knows to pass onto my tgf but still worth several million.

 

This would be ideal if everything turned out right and one can stay for the long haul and have something in return to pass on to others.

 

The condo I rent is valued at 3.4 M baht also but landlord only getting 16K longterm or less than 200K per year. He has to pay all condo fees for security, management, special fees, repairs etc - you have to take all of that into consideration also. In my native country I can average a 10% return on that 3.4 M baht (or dollar equivilent) and this more than pays for my condo rent. I also can pick up and move to any other Thai area I please or country if things get "hot" here. I can easily move if bad neighbors move in or a noisey bar appears close by.

 

Some people love ownership and roots, I won't knock your desire because I did the home ownership all my life. But in my retirement I want flexibility and freedom.

 

I think maybe renting for a year or so to see how things turn out might be the best option, and if it is, perhaps buying the unit for the long term or maybe similar.

[robinbay]

The condo I rent is valued at 3.4 M baht also but landlord only getting 16K longterm or less than 200K per year. He has to pay all condo fees for security, management, special fees, repairs etc - you have to take all of that into consideration also. In my native country I can average a 10% return on that 3.4 M baht (or dollar equivilent) and this more than pays for my condo rent. I also can pick up and move to any other Thai area I please or country if things get "hot" here. I can easily move if bad neighbors move in or a noisey bar appears close by.

 

Some people love ownership and roots, I won't knock your desire because I did the home ownership all my life. But in my retirement I want flexibility and freedom.

 

Wheres your cash to get 10% mate?

[gerry53]

Wheres your cash to get 10% mate?

 

Actually it is considerably higher than that. In Canada my income trust equity mutual fund averaged over 12% per year (over last 3 years) and that included that near meltdown in Oct. 2008. My precious metals averaged 80% in 2009, it doesn't always happen!!! My money is 100% in equity markets and I accept the calcuated risks (and returns). I don't know what's available in the UK.

[robinbay]

Actually it is considerably higher than that. In Canada my income trust equity mutual fund averaged over 12% per year (over last 3 years) and that included that near meltdown in Oct. 2008. My precious metals averaged 80% in 2009, it doesn't always happen!!! My money is 100% in equity markets and I accept the calcuated risks (and returns). I don't know what's available in the UK.

 

Nice mate,wish i had the balls to risk mine but in the words of Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman " i'm a safety " boy

[Single]

I've seen the point brought up in several threads about buying property compared to renting it for expats in Pattaya/Thailand.

 

I see both sides in terms of the property being solely used by the purchaser to live in (and not as a rent out/investment property).

 

The pros of buying a condo (a condo purchased outright for the purposes of this discussion) include:

 

- One time investment (outside of property taxes, etc.)

- Won't add to your monthly bills

 

The pros of renting a condo

 

- If living situation is not good (neighbors, area, country unstable, etc.), you can pick up and leave to another area or country

 

In terms of total cost, let's say a one bedroom studio costs 7500 baht a month to rent, and same style costs 600,000 baht to purchase. If you rent, it would take 8 years of living there before it equaled purchase cost.

 

So if you are in it for the long haul, would it make more sense to buy, or is there too much unknowns to commit?

 

No doubt I don't have much knowledge in this area.

 

Try including maintenance, building fees, taxesinsurances etc into the equation as well as purchasing and selling costs.

You also need to consider the possibility of the property falling in price or at least not rising faster than any alternative use you could put your money to.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Single

[yogi100]

Wheres your cash to get 10% mate?

 

That's what I thought. I'm getting less than 2% with a leading UK Building Society.

[robinbay]

That's what I thought. I'm getting less than 2% with a leading UK Building Society.

 

yeah like the man says he's taking risks and good for him they've paid off,i'm just not prepared to do that....can i smell chicken ha

[QuotaMan]

Try including maintenance, building fees, taxesinsurances etc into the equation as well as purchasing and selling costs.

You also need to consider the possibility of the property falling in price or at least not rising faster than any alternative use you could put your money to.

 

That is definitely a factor. You never know about those things and how they may jump unpredictably based on any number of situations.

[gerry53]

yeah like the man says he's taking risks and good for him they've paid off,i'm just not prepared to do that....can i smell chicken ha

 

I have been controlling my own money for many years and retired at 53. The risks are there but once retired you can spend more time examining the markets (almost like a job and no visa is needed). The more time you spend analysing stocks the less imtimidating they become, history does tend to repeat itself.

It is not like gambling in Las Vegas if you do your homework properly. Remember no risk - no reward, the 2% return mentioned actually loses money when you factor in taxes or inflation. Calcuated and well researched strategies can be lucrative!!! And yes there are ups and downs and it isn't for everyone. Back to condos!

[LazyJay]

The majority of those that rent will most likely tell you to rent whereas the majority of those that have bought will most likely tell you to buy.

 

I suspect that there are more people renting than actually own their own property therefore most likely the majority will tell you to rent.

 

 

 

there are also people who will tell you to rent because the own a condo and want to rent you that ;)

 

i bought, i dont look at it as an investment on the same level as buying a property in the west, but i spent less than £30K on a new one bedroom condo, less than the cost of a decent new BMW.

[LazyJay]

i am also more protected from rises in the value of the baht, of course i hope the baht does not rise, but if it does and you rent from money invested in your own country, it will cost you more in real terms even if your actual rent in baht stays the same. also if you want to live in thailand longterm inflation will make your rent rise in the longer term. altough i accept the rental market is well flat now, things would pick up big time in the future if pattaya becomes a zone for legal goverment santioned casino's, which is likely when the inevitable happens in the thai monarchy.