Hypothetical Mood

[aitch]

Hello,

 

was looking for the general rule for the Hypothetical Mood using "have"

 

examples such as . . .

 

would > would have

should > should have

could > could have

might > might have

must > must have

may > may have

will > will have

[herds]

not really sure if I understand the question

[Dr.Winston]

Hello,

 

was looking for the general rule for the Hypothetical Mood using "have"

 

examples such as . . .

 

would > would have

should > should have

could > could have

might > might have

must > must have

may > may have

will > will have

 

Your question is a bit confusing. Why not write a sentence in English to be translated to Thai for which the translation might answer your question?

 

I find I learned more from listening to the way Thais said things and then working out the grammar myself rather than asking about the grammar and then trying to work out how it would be applied within a sentence.

[aitch]

wasn't sure how (or if) "would have, should have, could have" is expressed in Thai

 

some examples . . .

 

I would eat fish - ผมคงจะกินปลา

I would have eaten fish - ?

 

I should eat fish - ผมควรกินปลา

I should have eaten fish - ?

 

I could eat fish - ผมสามารถกินปลา

I could have eaten fish - ?

 

I might eat fish - ผมอาจจะกินปลา

I might have eaten fish - ?

 

I must eat fish - ผมต้องการกินปลา

I must have eaten fish - ?

 

I may eat fish - ผมอาจจะกินปลา

I may have eaten fish - ?

 

I will eat fish - ผมจะกินปลา

I will have eaten fish - ?

 

 

was looking at the Wikipedia definition for Hypothetical Mood

 

"Hypothetical mood is a grammatical mood found in some languages, which indicates that while a statement is not actually true, it could easily have been. For instance, in English, "You know you shouldn't play with knives! You could have hurt someone!"

[herds]

I'm not 100% sure too be honest, but would like to know. I think for some I would just add 'เมื่อก่อน' before the original sentence to indicate the time. Would like to find out the proper way, if there is a rule or something.

[Dr.Winston]

As herds says. The only issue appears to be one of tenses. You could indicate the past tense by adding เมื่อก่อน or มาแล้ว.

[aitch]

Thanks Herds and DR. Winston.

 

 

I have been focussing on verbs lately so i probably will have ( ) more questions on the way

[MONOCHROMEMAN]

Related question: does Thai even use modals such as would, could etc?

 

Is there a Thai equivalent of:

 

I would if I could but I can't

?

 

[i've wanted to say this to so many BG's!]

 

the OP is really looking for a Thai equiv of the English modal + appropriate verb/tense (I think!). This might have been answered but I don't know Thai script.

[Chris50]

Hello,

 

was looking for the general rule for the Hypothetical Mood using "have"

 

examples such as . . .

 

would > would have

should > should have

could > could have

might > might have

must > must have

may > may have

will > will have

WELL all i can say is if you could>have you >should have. You did not have.Why did you not have

cheers chris

[Dr.Winston]

Related question: does Thai even use modals such as would, could etc?

 

Is there a Thai equivalent of:

 

I would if I could but I can't

?

 

[i've wanted to say this to so many BG's!]

 

the OP is really looking for a Thai equiv of the English modal + appropriate verb/tense (I think!). This might have been answered but I don't know Thai script.

 

Well he already knows ควร, which means should and verbs don't change with the tense like they do in English, again he's shown he know this already in the OP. It would be pretty easy to translate your sentence into Thai 'Thaa phom tham dai ja tham taa tham mai dai' but I don't think it will help answer the OP.

[MONOCHROMEMAN]

Well he already knows ควร, which means should and verbs don't change with the tense like they do in English, again he's shown he know this already in the OP. It would be pretty easy to translate your sentence into Thai 'Thaa phom tham dai ja tham taa tham mai dai' but I don't think it will help answer the OP.

 

Well, the OP asked "for the general rule for the Hypothetical Mood using "have""; this assumes Thai has the same or an equivalent structure as English and the other languages that use this structure. I don't know enough Thai to be able to answer this. Maybe you do. I don't like the term Hypothetical Mood anyway as it isn't transparent and somewhat disguises what the structure is about.

 

But anyway. According to Wikipedia: "Hypothetical mood is a grammatical mood found in some languages, which indicates that while a statement is not actually true, it could easily have been. For instance, in English, "You know you shouldn't play with knives! You could have hurt someone!""

 

The OP gives an example of could > could have as the structure he's aiming for. You can see the same structure in the above Wiki example: could + have + hurt.

 

This is why I asked about Thai modals. Could is an English modal. Is there a Thai equivalent? If so the OP has the first part of his target structure down (or part of it as Thai may have had multiple modals for all I know. Or none). I just added my example as it's of interest to me - and would teach the OP 2 modals would and could (assuming Thai has them. I now know it has "should" at least. So he's part way there). This structure in English grammar is classed as the equally unhelpfully named Conditional structure. It shares the modal aspect with Hypothetical Mood. I see them as in one and the same ballpark. Others might not.

 

Bearing in mind there's no one to one correspondence necessarily between languages and the fact I know little Thai I had to resort to my faithful but not perfect fallback Smyth's Thai: an essential grammar. No mention of hypotheticals but conditionals are on page 119. He translates "If it rains I'm not going" exactly the same as "If it had rained I wouldn't have gone". We can see the OP's target structure there in the last clause: would + have + gone. This shows, as you say that Thais don't change tense. The question is do they have shades of representing past time (eg "have gone" with or without a modal). His example suggests not. As does your translation of my example.

 

Remembering I don't speak Thai I'd translate literally your equiv of my example as: If I can do will do but cannot do. Correct me where I'm wrong. I always only knew Ja as will. So it means would, also? I had to look up "If" in Smyth. And I'm guessing taa is but. This suggests to me the OP won't get an exact equivalent of the Hypothetical Mood in Thai.

 

And after all of that I don't even like grammar(:

And I've yet to look up Thai for should in my Thai script which isn't to hand

Edited August 25, 2009 by MONOCHROMEMAN

[Dr.Winston]

Well, the OP asked "for the general rule for the Hypothetical Mood using "have""; this assumes Thai has the same or an equivalent structure as English and the other languages that use this structure. I don't know enough Thai to be able to answer this. Maybe you do. I don't like the term Hypothetical Mood anyway as it isn't transparent and somewhat disguises what the structure is about.

 

But anyway. According to Wikipedia: "Hypothetical mood is a grammatical mood found in some languages, which indicates that while a statement is not actually true, it could easily have been. For instance, in English, "You know you shouldn't play with knives! You could have hurt someone!""

 

The OP gives an example of could > could have as the structure he's aiming for. You can see the same structure in the above Wiki example: could + have + hurt.

 

This is why I asked about Thai modals. Could is an English modal. Is there a Thai equivalent? If so the OP has the first part of his target structure down (or part of it as Thai may have had multiple modals for all I know. Or none). I just added my example as it's of interest to me - and would teach the OP 2 modals would and could (assuming Thai has them. I now know it has "should" at least. So he's part way there). This structure in English grammar is classed as the equally unhelpfully named Conditional structure. It shares the modal aspect with Hypothetical Mood. I see them as in one and the same ballpark. Others might not.

 

Bearing in mind there's no one to one correspondence necessarily between languages and the fact I know little Thai I had to resort to my faithful but not perfect fallback Smyth's Thai: an essential grammar. No mention of hypotheticals but conditionals are on page 119. He translates "If it rains I'm not going" exactly the same as "If it had rained I wouldn't have gone". We can see the OP's target structure there in the last clause: would + have + gone. This shows, as you say that Thais don't change tense. The question is do they have shades of representing past time (eg "have gone" with or without a modal). His example suggests not. As does your translation of my example.

 

Remembering I don't speak Thai I'd translate literally your equiv of my example as: If I can do will do but cannot do. Correct me where I'm wrong. I always only knew Ja as will. So it means would, also? I had to look up If in Smyth. And I'm guessing taa is but. This suggests to me the OP won't get an exact equivalent of the Hypothetical Mood in Thai.

 

And after all of that I don't even like grammar(:

And I've yet to look u Thai for should in my Thai script which isn't to hand

Thai grammar doesn't vary verbs according to the tense. You indicate the tense by adding words before or after others i.e phom kamlang pai = I am currently going, phom pai laaw= I've gone already, phom ja pai= I will go. If you read your words that I have highlighted you will see that, at least in Thai it all boils down to the tense in this instance, as it does in the OP's examples. Thai grammer is different to English but simpler in some ways. I really think the answers that herds and myself will have answered his questions. IMO trying to make English grammar fit the Thai language just doesn't work a lot of the time and the two are best treated as totally separate.