Leaving a lease early?

[Suphawk]

I'm living in Thailand 3 years already and still haven't figured out the haphazard way real estate works here.

I rented a house on the east side and it's been a headache, only a few months left but with the high rent and electric I'm considering just moving on. They have 2 months deposit and I'd be leaving the place in better shape than when I moved in. But I know they still want to charge for cleaning etc.

My question is should I just leave and they can take the cleaning and last months electric/water out of my deposit?

Let the arrows fly, I'm open for all suggestions and criticism. Thanks

[Dingo Brax]

I haven't been in this situation personally, but I was considering exiting my lease early as well as I signed a contract during high season for 14k/month, and you can currently get similar condos in the same building for 10k/month, perhaps 8k. Plus I'd then be able to renew or swap during low season instead of high season which should be beneficial.

However I would expect to forfeit my 28k deposit due to breach of contract, but I would not expect to be charged any additional fees. I decided to stay until end of contract and go for a 6 month lease next time, so I can renew or swap during low season. 

[Suphawk]

I ran the numbers if I left my lease early, and with losing my deposit, I would really be saving that much to make it worth it.

However the idea of grabbing something at low season prices is a big consideration.

When does high season end and the prices start to fall, or do they not fall until around Aug-Sept., close to the end of low season?

[splitpin]

You should not have had to pay 2 months deposit, the landlord was breaking the law. 1 month deposit 1 month rent to start off a lease

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2018/03/13/thai-law-what-landlords-must-quickly-do-or-go-to-jail/

 

 

[Dingo Brax]

46 minutes ago, splitpin said:

You should not have had to pay 2 months deposit, the landlord was breaking the law. 1 month deposit 1 month rent to start off a lease

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2018/03/13/thai-law-what-landlords-must-quickly-do-or-go-to-jail/

 

 

I was aware of that fact when I signed the contract, but had no issues with depositing an extra month. Knowing that the owner will risk jail time if I report him will give me a good position if he tries withholding my deposit or adds some extravagant fees when the contract ends. Seemed like an easy way to buy a bit of leverage.

[Suphawk]

double post sorry

Edited September 18, 2023 by Suphawk

[Suphawk]

2 hours ago, splitpin said:

You should not have had to pay 2 months deposit, the landlord was breaking the law. 1 month deposit 1 month rent to start off a lease

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2018/03/13/thai-law-what-landlords-must-quickly-do-or-go-to-jail/

 

 

I wasn't aware of that! A lot of these rental agencies in town are asking 2 months deposit now and 1st months rent.

It's always screw the foreigners here, WTH!

[Ohyesuare]

3 hours ago, Suphawk said:

I'm living in Thailand 3 years already and still haven't figured out the haphazard way real estate works here.

I rented a house on the east side and it's been a headache, only a few months left but with the high rent and electric I'm considering just moving on. They have 2 months deposit and I'd be leaving the place in better shape than when I moved in. But I know they still want to charge for cleaning etc.

My question is should I just leave and they can take the cleaning and last months electric/water out of my deposit?

Let the arrows fly, I'm open for all suggestions and criticism. Thanks

Talk to them and ask if you want move out early. Look at your rental lease/contract and if it says anything about early lease termination fees etc.. otherwise, with only a few months left, I would just expect to lose the 2 months deposit and doubt they would bother suing you for the remainder. 

[kd_traveller]

3 hours ago, splitpin said:

You should not have had to pay 2 months deposit, the landlord was breaking the law. 1 month deposit 1 month rent to start off a lease

It is the law, but like many things in Thailand, it is just ignored.  I have been looking to rent recently and every agency I contacted including the well know ones were all looking for 2 months deposit. 

[geezerrb]

My understanding of the deposit level is that a landlord with over a certain number of properties should only charge 1 month deposit however under that number threshold they can charge 2 months deposit. I am not sure of the actual number of properties constitute the threshold but I seem to recall 6? Whether the rental being handled by an agent changes the rule I am not sure. TIT.

[Dingo Brax]

From the article - "Note that while the regulations apply to a “residential lease business” – meaning landlords who rent out a total of five or more residential units"

So it seems the threshold would be 5 units

Edited September 18, 2023 by Dingo Brax

[Suphawk]

On a past rental they asked for 2 months and I offered 1 month deposit, the agent consulted the owner and they agreed.

I'm only doing this moving forward. If they try to stand firm on a 2 month then I will rent elsewhere.

[LASportsNut]

One option is to stop paying rent and let the deposits pay for the remaining rent?

However tell the owner.....

[thainet]

2 hours ago, geezerrb said:

My understanding of the deposit level is that a landlord with over a certain number of properties should only charge 1 month deposit however under that number threshold they can charge 2 months deposit. I am not sure of the actual number of properties constitute the threshold but I seem to recall 6? Whether the rental being handled by an agent changes the rule I am not sure. TIT.

This is correct. The magic nbr is 5. In my properties I normally charge 2 months, but one month is for house/furniture damage and the other is the normal deposit for power/water/internet bills etc. Renters understand this. I have done 1 month sometimes depending on the customer.

 

[thainet]

27 minutes ago, LASportsNut said:

One option is to stop paying rent and let the deposits pay for the remaining rent?

However tell the owner.....

To 99% of owners this is not acceptable, and actually is against the written Contract unless a clause to this effect was inserted at the beginning of the term. My House rental Contracts give the renters a certain amount of days to be late on rent, after that I approach them personally, and if not paid (or compromise reached) then the police are informed and locks changed (in presence of police) and any deposits are forfeit. Personal belongings can then be removed with supervision. To those of you that have never been a landlord, it is quite an experience at times with the stories and excuses that renters come up with.

BUT to clarify the last line in the above post, I do let renters leave early if for legitimate reasons (which are specified in the initial Contract) and in this case they only pay for the last month of usage and lose only one month of deposit.

Hope this helps.

[LASportsNut]

1 hour ago, thainet said:

To 99% of owners this is not acceptable, and actually is against the written Contract unless a clause to this effect was inserted at the beginning of the term. My House rental Contracts give the renters a certain amount of days to be late on rent, after that I approach them personally, and if not paid (or compromise reached) then the police are informed and locks changed (in presence of police) and any deposits are forfeit. Personal belongings can then be removed with supervision. To those of you that have never been a landlord, it is quite an experience at times with the stories and excuses that renters come up with.

BUT to clarify the last line in the above post, I do let renters leave early if for legitimate reasons (which are specified in the initial Contract) and in this case they only pay for the last month of usage and lose only one month of deposit.

Hope this helps.

You are probably correct about the law, however this is what I did with my landlord.

He already knew the place was spotless and the deposit and the "last" paid for my last two months.

That is why I mentioned to coordinate with landlord.

[Spellforce]

This one month deposit is only for the landlords who are renting more than 10 units, the common practive in Pattaya is 2 months deposit.

If the landlord is thai, never suit him to a tribunal, you are sure to loose and you will have to pay penalties.

Take a look at your contract, normaly if you leave before of the contract (extension), then you'll loose your deposit and if you dont pay your bills, the landlord can suit you to a tribunal.

[splitpin]

19 hours ago, kd_traveller said:

It is the law, but like many things in Thailand, it is just ignored.  I have been looking to rent recently and every agency I contacted including the well know ones were all looking for 2 months deposit. 

A friend of mine took out a year lease recently, the agent is holding the deposit, I think it was Cornerstone, also I think he only paid one month deposit

[Goolabert]

DUENSING KIPPEN Law Firm has an article about this subject that is fairly recent that includes changes that went into effect January 2020, superseding rules from 2018.

Link to article is below but two highlights regarding the main points being discussed here:

- “Residential property leasing business” means a business that leases five or more property units to individual lessees for residential proposes.

- The New Notification allows the lessor to require a total advance rental payment plus security deposit in an amount equivalent to three months of rent payment. This provides more security for the lessor than the Previous Notification’s one-month advance and one-month security deposit limitations. 

- A tenant or “lessee” can terminate the lease agreement by giving 30-days’ notice.  However, unlike the Previous Notice, the New Notice requires that at least half of the lease term be expired before the lessee can exercise this right.

 

https://www.duensingkippen.com/thailandpropertylawblog/?p=364

[Pat56]

In practice many landlords/agents treat your deposit as key money,ie a non refundable gift to them for being nice enough to rent their apartment to you and your chances of having it refunded are pretty close to zero.

Adding an agent in the chain just adds more scope for excuses not to give you your deposit back as the landlord and the agent will blame each other and if they know your leaving the country at the end of the lease even more reason to fob you off with lame excuses.

There is much to be said for renting a hotel room/suite on a monthly basis were your commitment is never more than one month and there is far less chance of having to deal with any of the above crap.

signing a 12 month contract and handing over lots of cash up front for a rental property are best avoided.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Pat56
Spelling

[Suphawk]

3 minutes ago, Pat56 said:

In practice many landlords/agents treat your deposit as key money,ie a non refundable gift to them for being nice enough to rent their apartment to you and your chances of having it refunded are pretty close to zero.

Adding an agent in the chain just adds more scope for excuses not to give you your deposit back as the landlord and the agent will blame each other and if they know your leaving the country at the end of the lease even more reason to fob you off with lame excuses.

There is much to be said for renting a hotel room/suite on a monthly basis were your commitment is never more than one month and there is far less chance of having to deal with any of the above crap.

signing a 12 month contract and handing over lots of cash up front for a rental property are best avoided.

This is exactly how I feel after renting 3 different places in 3 years here. However I like to have a place to unpack and settle a bit since I'm staying in Thailand for the long term.

I'm pretty sure I'm done with renting houses. The prices are getting up there, and then they want 2 months deposit on top of that, not sure it's worth it. A lot of the agents (geared towards farangs) are pushing the prices up and saying min 12 months rental. But places sit unrented also.

The only positive a house has over a condo is the noise issues you can have with a bad neighbor in the condo building. But I like to have a closer proximity to the beach for a daily walk to stay more fit.

[CamelToe]

On 06/10/2023 at 23:09, Suphawk said:

This is exactly how I feel after renting 3 different places in 3 years here. However I like to have a place to unpack and settle a bit since I'm staying in Thailand for the long term.

I'm pretty sure I'm done with renting houses. The prices are getting up there, and then they want 2 months deposit on top of that, not sure it's worth it. A lot of the agents (geared towards farangs) are pushing the prices up and saying min 12 months rental. But places sit unrented also.

The only positive a house has over a condo is the noise issues you can have with a bad neighbor in the condo building. But I like to have a closer proximity to the beach for a daily walk to stay more fit.

Living in a house and a kareoke bar starts up close to you? i know people who have suffered through this,and they have no recourse, at least in a good condo you have a lot more power,the owners/committee members will have contacts and enough money in their Strata levy fund to sort out that noisy neighbour,but in saying that,i bought my condo with 2 bedrooms, so if i have a noisy neighbor,i just switch bedrooms, so far no issues with any noisy neighbors,going on 6 yrs now