Re. House buying

[Invicta]

I am looking at East Pattaya now , I am aware the house will be in my wife’s name, can my name be put on the book for the house. We have been married 14 years so my trust is there already but none of us know what the future holds. I have heard about a usufruct but not sure how I works or if it has any substance. Anyone have knowledge of the legal side of this

[Edge]

Usufructs came from Italian (I think) law and were intended for agricultural arrangements.
I don't know if they've ever been tested here, but I would avoid them.

Prima facie you have three options I can think of.
1. Buy it in your wife's name and hope for the best.
2. Form a Thai company with you and your wife having equal shares eg. 49% each and 2% to another trusted Thai.
3. You could buy the house in your (you can) or joint names with your wife then form a 30 year Lease on the land in your favour.

If 2. or 3. seem to suit you best I would request an advice interview with Tony Justice at Magna Carta.

[1tooth]

In business, I am extremely uncomfortable with usufructs. I would avoid them for your purpose.

[CamelToe]

20 hours ago, Edge said:

Usufructs came from Italian (I think) law and were intended for agricultural arrangements.
I don't know if they've ever been tested here, but I would avoid them.

Prima facie you have three options I can think of.
1. Buy it in your wife's name and hope for the best.
2. Form a Thai company with you and your wife having equal shares eg. 49% each and 2% to another trusted Thai.
3. You could buy the house in your (you can) or joint names with your wife then form a 30 year Lease on the land in your favour.

If 2. or 3. seem to suit you best I would request an advice interview with Tony Justice at Magna Carta.

So no 3 is Freehold?

[Edge]

1 hour ago, CamelToe said:

So no 3 is Freehold?

 

I am saying check...but I beleve yes,a foreigner can own the house, but not the land it is built on.

Am I wrong?

[CamelToe]

yes i think so,its the 30k Freeholdlease and the + 30 after that,if the original thai person signing the deal deceases then there is no more ongoing leases you just get your  30 years,this is Freehold yes?

[Edge]

6 minutes ago, CamelToe said:

yes i think so,its the 30k Freeholdlease and the + 30 after that,if the original thai person signing the deal deceases then there is no more ongoing leases you just get your  30 years,this is Freehold yes?

I know of those 30+30+30 deals....lots in Phuket.
The problem is (as I found out) that the houses belong to whomever the planning consent was issued to.
In those cases, it was to the developer's Thai wife.
That meant that the buyers had a 30 year Lease, but not a house unless the Thai wife agreed to sell it to them
Subsequent 30 year Leases became irrelevant if she didn't and anyway the future rent could not be fixed because 30 years is the maximum you can register at the Land Office.
That's from memory and I don't know how it panned out for those buyers.

I still think I'm right in principle.....the foreigner could own the house and the Thai wife could own the land and register a 30 year Lease in favour of her husband.....but no way I'd attempt that without the likes of Magna Carta holding my hand through the process.
It also probably depends on the seller's co-operation in splitting the sale.

I'm not necessarily recommending it, I just think it's one way.
The usual way is the Thai company way, but that's dodgy because new Thai companies should not be set up to buy property i.e. circumvent the rules..... but then I saw a post saying the Land office will only accept new companies, so I'm not sure.
I had three Thai companies each for owning a house and it worked fine for me, but in the end I tapped out because i thought it would be too difficult for daughters to unravel if/when I exit.
More detail in my Trials & Tribulations thread if anyone is interested.

At this point I'm expecting a flood of posts saying rent, rent, rent.  

[CamelToe]

Are their many stories around of foreigners who have fallen foul with a Thai company (not involving a wife) just for flouting the law and having to sell or fined?

[thainet]

3 hours ago, CamelToe said:

Are their many stories around of foreigners who have fallen foul with a Thai company (not involving a wife) just for flouting the law and having to sell or fined?

No

[Soi7]

On 26/05/2023 at 19:55, Edge said:

If 2. or 3. seem to suit you best I would request an advice interview with Tony Justice at Magna Carta.

This is best they are good he once got a rape charge reduced to Hit and run. They handle all types of things

[travelling_man]

On 26/05/2023 at 19:55, Edge said:

2. Form a Thai company with you and your wife having equal shares eg. 49% each and 2% to another trusted Thai.

Don't really agree with you here Edge.  First, wife and Thai could collude and do anything they want.  The key is to change the charter rules which I talked about in this thread to prevent anything from happening without the foreigner's stock being involved.

 

15 hours ago, Edge said:

The usual way is the Thai company way, but that's dodgy because new Thai companies should not be set up to buy property i.e. circumvent the rules..... but then I saw a post saying the Land office will only accept new companies, so I'm not sure.

Thanks for saying "dodgy" and not illegal as so many people incorrectly say.  And it only falls into "dodgy" because 1) of the lack of proof that the Thai actually invested money (which is not a requirement under the law but adds to the second dodgy issue) and 2) because the Thai stockholders are also listed as being stockholders of 99,999 other Thai companies.

The company is created to own and rent real estate.  It performs the actions it set out in its charter.  It makes profit and pays tax.  It is therefore a legit company.

Now, had you said it was a PAIN IN THE ASS, I would have agreed with you.  As the Foreigner, you are supposed to maintain copies of *CURRENT* Thai ID's with the signed documents that you hold relinquishing their rights.  That can be a problem if they aren't related to you.  

You must go to the accountant's office each year and sign 50+ documents in Thai and wait for the translated copy of your financial statements to be provided to you.  It is inconvenient.

And it will be slightly more difficult in estate planning -- but provided you have wills in Thailand as well as your original country, it can all be done.  However, how many guys here have Thai wills?   LOL

Sales are easier however.  It is a paperwork change that the attorney files and doesn't involved the land department -- because the company still owns the property; albeit with a new stockholder.

The point I am making (which you already know), is if you choose to own a house, then own it in a structure that provides the most amount of protection possible.  A company structure, regardless of how "dodgy" you think it may be, is still safer than putting it into someone else's name.