'To be' in Thai confusing

[Crypt]

I'm learning some Thai but this "to be" verb really confuses me!

 

Every method writes the words in different ways, mine like this.

 

words for to be are : Pen / Yoo / Kue

 

But when do I use which one???

 

Some examples how my guide uses them:

 

Pom yoo nai hong = I am in the room

Pom kue Mr. Pat = I am Mr. Pat

Pom pen kru = I am a teacher

 

Do you just have to know when you use which one or could it have been any one of the three in any off the sentences?

 

Some help would be appreciated

[Crypt]

And if you just have to know when you use which form.... uhm... when do you use which form?!

[Tang]

bpen (M)

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1a. [verb, transitive, intransitive, auxiliary verb] to be; <subject> is

3. [auxiliary verb] can; to be able

 

 

yuu (L)

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1a. [verb, transitive, intransitive] is (located at); to reside; to live (at)

1b. [verb, intransitive] [intransitive usage] is at home

1d. to survive

2a. [noun] presence; existence

3. [auxiliary verb, particle] [particle indicating the progressive tense or perfect tense]

 

kheuu (M)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. [verb, transitive, conjunction] [copula] to be; is (used for equivalence definitions)

2. [verb] namely; as follows; thus; as in; to wit; simply

 

 

type "to be" in the english to thai dictionary search for examples http://www.thai-language.com/dict/

 

Learning to speak thai correctly can be some tricky shit

Edited March 2, 2009 by Tang

[pompooee]

pom ben (or b-pen) kru = I be teacher.

 

pom kue (or cheu) 'Mr Pat' = my name 'Mr Pat'.

 

no sure about Pom yoo nai hong, maybe someone else can enlighten us!

Edited March 2, 2009 by pompooee

[Ajay75]

no sure about Pom yoo nai hong, maybe someone else can enlighten us!

 

Pom yuu tii hong = I'm in the room. Or literally "I'm located in the room"

 

You can also use other words to mean "to be..." something.

 

I find it incredibly frustrating and sometimes wonder why I bothered to try and learn Thai. I'm just over a year in now and still feel like I know nothing.

[herds]

Chin up ajay I get frustrated too sometimes but I try and remind myself that it takes years and is a difficult language compared to learning spainish or french for us native english speakers, i'm sure I saw some chart where there were 4 levels of difficulty if you were an english native speaker, chinese, korean and japanese were lvl 4 (the hardest) and thai was near the top of level 3.

 

Even if you learn a word a day or a few a week it's still learning.

 

I must remember to get a mic sometime as it would be good to have a chat in thai (well at least try )

Edited March 4, 2009 by herds

[Crypt]

Yoo for a place

Pen for what you are

Kue for who you are

 

and then on the next page they write Khun pen krai again instead of Khun kue krai... Maybee the book just sucks haha

[Ajay75]

Chin up ajay :Drink4: I get frustrated too sometimes but I try and remind myself that it takes years and is a difficult language compared to learning spainish or french for us native english speakers, i'm sure I saw some chart where there were 4 levels of difficulty if you were an english native speaker, chinese, korean and japanese were lvl 4 (the hardest) and thai was near the top of level 3.

 

Even if you learn a word a day or a few a week it's still learning.

 

I must remember to get a mic sometime as it would be good to have a chat in thai (well at least try )

 

Cheers mate. Haha I'm going through a bit of a funny spell at the moment where I'm forgetting easy stuff when having lessons which is not helping relieve my frustration.

 

I too have to remind myself that I'm trying to run before I can walk sometimes. My teacher has told me a number of times recently to "jai yin yin" so I have tried to remember this.

 

Haha I'm not sure about the chat at the moment but yep I'll be up for it. Wont be probably until I get back from my June trip though

[MONOCHROMEMAN]

bpen must be followed by an adjective

 

x is y

 

eg rat is beautiful

 

ie rat bpen sooway

[Dr.Winston]

bpen must be followed by an adjective

 

x is y

 

eg rat is beautiful

 

ie rat bpen sooway

Not necessarily. it could be used without anything following it in the answer to a question i.e. tham mai pen = I cannot do it or even in a statement i.e khaw phuut phasaa Thai mai pen = he cannot speak Thai.

 

Also I've never heard pen (bpen) used as in your other example "rat bpen suay" Thais would say rat pen khon thee suay. i.e rat is a beautiful person rather than Rat is beautiful or come to think of it even just khaw suay = she's beautiful.

 

As for the main question in the thread. It sounds like a cop out but just listening to and reading the way the Thais use these words will use up a lot less of your mind power than trying to make sense of it by translating the subtleties by literal translation. Just search for examples of their use on the Net if you can read Thai

[MONOCHROMEMAN]

Not necessarily. it could be used without anything following it in the answer to a question i.e. tham mai pen = I cannot do it or even in a statement i.e khaw phuut phasaa Thai mai pen = he cannot speak Thai.

 

Also I've never heard pen (bpen) used as in your other example "rat bpen suay" Thais would say rat pen khon thee suay. i.e rat is a beautiful person rather than Rat is beautiful or come to think of it even just khaw suay = she's beautiful.

 

As for the main question in the thread. It sounds like a cop out but just listening to and reading the way the Thais use these words will use up a lot less of your mind power than trying to make sense of it by translating the subtleties by literal translation. Just search for examples of their use on the Net if you can read Thai

 

OK. Let's get this right. I was only talking about following words. Yes it can be used without any. In fact I was WRONG anyway. I've been using this wrong. Smyth (Thai essential grammar p. 56 - good book) says bpen can NEVER be followed by adjective. Must be noun/noun phrase. gives eg of her sister is a teacher (pee sao bpen kruu). So your eg would be right (khon tee suay being a NP). i've been doing it the other way and never pulled up. That said i swear i've heard countless times x bpen beautiful. I'll listen in June a bit better!

 

Mind Smyth says (p.57) that you CAN'T negate bpen by putting mai before it. Claims you have to use mai chai or mai dai bpen.

 

I remember him making a howler in his Khmer book.

 

I agree about listening/reading. I've always suspected Europeans would make quicker strides in SPEAKING if they could READ thai script.

[Dr.Winston]

OK. Let's get this right. I was only talking about following words. Yes it can be used without any. In fact I was WRONG anyway. I've been using this wrong. Smyth (Thai essential grammar p. 56 - good book) says bpen can NEVER be followed by adjective. Must be noun/noun phrase. gives eg of her sister is a teacher (pee sao bpen kruu). So your eg would be right (khon tee suay being a NP). i've been doing it the other way and never pulled up. That said i swear i've heard countless times x bpen beautiful. I'll listen in June a bit better!

 

Mind Smyth says (p.57) that you CAN'T negate bpen by putting mai before it. Claims you have to use mai chai or mai dai bpen.

 

I remember him making a howler in his Khmer book.

 

I agree about listening/reading. I've always suspected Europeans would make quicker strides in SPEAKING if they could READ thai script.

 

It is used all the time and I've seen it taught in Thai courses. Yes, I agree that learning to read Thai is the only way to learn to speak the language to a good standard. Cheers.

[Ajay75]

It is used all the time and I've seen it taught in Thai courses. Yes, I agree that learning to read Thai is the only way to learn to speak the language to a good standard. Cheers.

 

Or just have a teacher tell you the various methods / packages of saying things correctly like I do ;-)

 

I do plan on learning script but I've got my hands full learning to speak. I'm at an intermediate level now but want to improve for another year or two before learning script.

 

Getting a native teacher 4 months ago for 3 hours a week was the best move I ever made. Just wish I'd decided to go down this route right from the start instead of learning myself for about a year previously.

[Dr.Winston]

Or just have a teacher tell you the various methods / packages of saying things correctly like I do ;-)

 

I do plan on learning script but I've got my hands full learning to speak. I'm at an intermediate level now but want to improve for another year or two before learning script.

 

Getting a native teacher 4 months ago for 3 hours a week was the best move I ever made. Just wish I'd decided to go down this route right from the start instead of learning myself for about a year previously.

 

Yes, I didn't word that very well, what I meant was that it will make learning to speak Thai so much easier. If you hear a new word you can just ask a Thai to write it down for you in Thai script and that will tell you exactly how it should be pronounced next time you want to use it. I'm sure that with your obvious dedication it is possible to speak it well, however once you've learned to read it you'll wonder how you managed before. We all prefer to learn in different ways. Some people like to break it all down into verbs, pronouns and adjectives whereas I always prefered a more intuitive approach. I started to learn to read and write Thai after a month of learning to speak it. All to their own, one thing's for sure, if you put the time in you'll reap the rewards.

[Ajay75]

Yes, I didn't word that very well, what I meant was that it will make learning to speak Thai so much easier. If you hear a new word you can just ask a Thai to write it down for you in Thai script and that will tell you exactly how it should be pronounced next time you want to use it. I'm sure that with your obvious dedication it is possible to speak it well, however once you've learned to read it you'll wonder how you managed before. We all prefer to learn in different ways. Some people like to break it all down into verbs, pronouns and adjectives whereas I always prefered a more intuitive approach. I started to learn to read and write Thai after a month of learning to speak it. All to their own, one thing's for sure, if you put the time in you'll reap the rewards.

 

Very true mate, you get out what you put in. Its hard work and takes alot of practice and dedication but for me its worth it as I love coversing in Thai about different subjects/opinions. Every lesson I learn so much more that I could from the internet/books. Having a teacher IMO is the best way to learning effective Thai which is up to date. Books and the internet dont really teach you the various contexts for using words / phrases etc in sentences.

 

My teacher told me that a 1/3rd of her students drop out as soon as the theory side of it comes in.

[Dr.Winston]

Very true mate, you get out what you put in. Its hard work and takes alot of practice and dedication but for me its worth it as I love coversing in Thai about different subjects/opinions. Every lesson I learn so much more that I could from the internet/books. Having a teacher IMO is the best way to learning effective Thai which is up to date. Books and the internet dont really teach you the various contexts for using words / phrases etc in sentences.

 

My teacher told me that a 1/3rd of her students drop out as soon as the theory side of it comes in.

 

I used to sell copies of book/tape Thai courses for beer money in Bangkok. A BM on this forum contacted me because he saw an old picture of me and remembered buying a course from me 18 years ago. He still can't speak Thai lol. Yes, some people just don't take to it.

[Ajay75]

I used to sell copies of book/tape Thai courses for beer money in Bangkok. A BM on this forum contacted me because he saw an old picture of me and remembered buying a course from me 18 years ago. He still can't speak Thai lol. Yes, some people just don't take to it.

 

Thing is alot of people just want to be able to do something without having to out the work in. There have been times where I have thought to myself why I am learning a language which is quite difficult compared to French or German. But I've just told myself that it would be stupid to give up now having come so far.

 

Do agree that some people do take to it better than others but nothing that a bit of study and practice doesnt cure. Does help if you have "kwaam jam dii"

[MONOCHROMEMAN]

Yes, I didn't word that very well, what I meant was that it will make learning to speak Thai so much easier. If you hear a new word you can just ask a Thai to write it down for you in Thai script and that will tell you exactly how it should be pronounced next time you want to use it. I'm sure that with your obvious dedication it is possible to speak it well, however once you've learned to read it you'll wonder how you managed before. We all prefer to learn in different ways. Some people like to break it all down into verbs, pronouns and adjectives whereas I always prefered a more intuitive approach. I started to learn to read and write Thai after a month of learning to speak it. All to their own, one thing's for sure, if you put the time in you'll reap the rewards.

 

I once read that 70% of a native speaker's vocab comes from reading not listening/speaking. Sadly the quote wasn't referenced so I don't know if it's right. If it is that's another reason for learning Thai script. Regardless of the % it seems obvious to me. I'm sure greater strides would be made in vocab (for an English speaker), for example, learning Indonesian rather than Thai as it uses Roman script. I use this example as I've picked up some Indonesian words watching movies with the Indonesian written on screen. Whereas I can't understand any written Thai bar a few letters. I'm not a Thai learner just have an interest in learning methods!

[Loong]

I'm learning some Thai but this "to be" verb really confuses me!

 

Every method writes the words in different ways, mine like this.

 

words for to be are : Pen / Yoo / Kue

 

But when do I use which one???

 

Some examples how my guide uses them:

 

Pom yoo nai hong = I am in the room

Pom kue Mr. Pat = I am Mr. Pat

Pom pen kru = I am a teacher

 

Do you just have to know when you use which one or could it have been any one of the three in any off the sentences?

 

Some help would be appreciated

 

 

Pom kue Mr. Pat = I am Mr. Pat

 

Nobody has mentioned the use of คือ (keu), Is this right? I would normally use ชื่อ (chêu) here.

Seeing this post has made me think about it, although ผมชื่อ Mr. Pat (pŏm chêu Mr. Pat) is commonly used, maybe it's not grammatically correct?

Looking in the dictionary, ชื่อ (chêu) is a noun, so you would think that pŏm chêu Mr. Pat cannot be right.

Is ชื่อผมคือ Mr. Pat (chêu pŏm keu Mr. Pat) correct?

 

I appreciate the input of people more knowledgeable than me.

[kub]

I'm learning some Thai but this "to be" verb really confuses me!

 

Every method writes the words in different ways, mine like this.

 

words for to be are : Pen / Yoo / Kue

 

But when do I use which one???

 

Some examples how my guide uses them:

 

Pom yoo nai hong = I am in the room

Pom kue Mr. Pat = I am Mr. Pat

Pom pen kru = I am a teacher

 

Do you just have to know when you use which one or could it have been any one of the three in any off the sentences?

 

Some help would be appreciated

 

Hi Crypt,

 

Not easy for me to explain it in english but i will try.

 

"yoo" is used when it´s about a location, when you ask/say where someone/something is.

 

"kue" is used when u make an introduction. If you want to introduce someone who is called Lek u say " Nee kue Lek" (This is Lek)

 

"pen" is only used when a substantive follows but not a adjective. Like in your example. You have to say "Pom pen kru/Khon angrit/tahaan......etc.

 

If you use a adjective you don´t have to use the word "pen" , you say for example "Pom kigiat" (I am lazy) or "Khao mao" (He is drunken)

 

Are you from the Netherlands ? Can you speak german? When yes, i can give you a better explanation in german.

 

Best Regards

[kub]

@Loong

 

When he says "Pom kue Mr. Pat" it means "I am Mr.Pat", he introduces hiself as Mr. Pat.

 

When he says "Pom chue Mr.Pat" it means "My name is Mr.Pat"

 

Both is correct

[Ajay75]

The use of "bpen" can be used in the following contexts:

 

- To be something

 

e.g:

 

Puak^ kaw\ bpen nak/ rian = They are students

 

Kaw\ bpen kon an\ dta raay = He is a dangerous person

 

Kaw\ may bpen kon an\ dta raay = He isnt a dangerous person

 

Kaw\ aad ja bpen gay = His might be gay

 

 

- To describe someones feeling (health wise)

 

e.g:

 

bpen aray? - Got what sickness?

 

bpen kaw\ - Got fever

 

bpen ma reng - Got cancer

 

etc...

 

- To describe an ability

 

e.g:

 

Kaw way^ naam bpen - he can swim

 

Kaw way^ naam may^ bpen - he can't swim

 

 

Hope this helps a bit as I know I found it confusing a little as well when I learnt it.

[Loong]

@Loong

 

When he says "Pom kue Mr. Pat" it means "I am Mr.Pat", he introduces hiself as Mr. Pat.

 

When he says "Pom chue Mr.Pat" it means "My name is Mr.Pat"

 

Both is correct

 

Thanks for the explanation, I can understand the difference now