Traffickers Prosecuted, Punters Next In Line

[TRICKY]

orientalgems owners prosecuted for trafficking

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7720605.stm

 

i cant believe it's not been started yet, so i'm starting it now.

 

 

leaving aside, the obvious difficulty in applying any law that holds that punters are responsible for ensuring a WG is not trafficked, who thinks they would or should report any WG they thought was trafficked?

[missinginaction]

I'm baffled. Paying for sex in the UK is illegal. How can anyone have a "Legal Obligation" to do something about an act which is not officially happening.

[handman]

It is not illegal to pay for sex in England. There is an offence of 'soliciting' (which is a complexoffencin its self), which is only committed by the person offering sex for money. There is also the commonly called named offence of 'kerb crawling', but simply paying for sex is not an offence.

But to return to the original post.

Having been involved with a young Russian lady in Dubai who had been trafficked I would always report any girl who I believed had been the subject of this terrible form of slavery.

I could write a book about this particular girl, but briefly:-

She came from a poor village in Kyrgyzstan, she had an elderly mother, three younger brothers and a younger sister, the family had no income at all her father had recently died.

She replied to an advert for a job, working in a coffee bar in Dubai. She was told that they would pay her air fare to Dubai, arrange a work visa for her, and provide her with accomodation. In return she would work for two years without pay, but they told her that because she was a very attractive young lady she would make enough money in tips, from rich Arabs, to give her a good standard of living in Dubai and also enable her to send enough money home for her family to live on.

On arrival in Dubai she was told that the coffee shop job had gone, but as she now owed them £20,000, the money which they claimed to have payed out for her airfare and in bribes for her work visa, she would now have to work as a prostitute to repay them.

When she refused she was badly beaten, raped and sodomised, by three Russian men and told that it would be a daily occurance untill she started 'working' and repaying the debt, to which interest would be added on a weekly bassis.

As I have already said I would certainly report anybody who was the subject of trafficking, and I hope that most other BM's would do the same.

[MONOCHROMEMAN]

There's undoubtedly a lot of nastiness in this trade. I remember a new york case where the women were hidden behind a false wall, couldn't leave the building, were beaten etc.

 

On the other hand, I heard a BBC radio report a couple of years ago where a worker for an anti prostitution group said that most of the women know why they're coming to the UK but lie when the place is busted in order to stay in the country. I find it hard to believe that every one of them is so naive that they think they're going to make that much money from waitressing.

 

More worrying is this law in the UK. I don't frequent UK knocking shops so it doesn't involve me. But the law could be extended to abroad. In fact it's been discussed already.

[LaaMok]

Here is another related article straight from the Met's website

 

http://cms.met.police.uk/news/convictions/...to_prostitution

 

Ten jailed for forcing women into prostitution

 

13 November 2008

 

Ten people have been sentenced to over 16 years in prison, following an operation by the Met’s Clubs and Vice Unit to smash a gang forcing women to work as prostitutes.

 

Today’s sentencing at Southwark Crown Court is the final phase of the Unit’s operation - codenamed Gib, which started in December 2007, after intelligence indicated that Thai women were being forced to work as prostitutes.

 

The investigation led officers to an online escort agency website ‘Orientalgems.com’ advertising solely oriental escorts, owned and controlled by a trio: Monthira Duangthip and brothers Pongpoj Pitayatankul and Bordee Pitayatankul.

 

The operation pieced together a complicated web of women being trafficked from Thailand, forced into the sex industry, each having to pay back a debt bondage of £28,000 to the traffickers.

 

Noppharat Charoenying, Panya Peakaew and Graipich Vudto and Thatri Pornpaditkong supported the running of the agency, collecting money from brothels and driving the women to and from their appointments. Police believe money collections took place each Saturday evening/night with around £20,000 being picked up each time. ..................

 

http://cms.met.police.uk/news/convictions/...to_prostitution

[TRICKY]

Having known quite a few girls from the agency and one very well if can only if any be a few which were held and paying back 20K.... all the girls I met were happy and moved around as they wanted... OG even took some of them up to Scotland on holiday.... alot of them had overstayed their visa's though alas so were sent back to Thailand.....

[bizzjet]

I think the term trafficking should be clearly defined.

 

Currently it's the flavor of the moment for the Politically Correct and will soon pass away to the ancient archives the way wife beaters, drug dealers, mental abusers, racists, date raper’s, drunk drivers and the rest have gone.

 

Don't get sucked into the so called freedom fighters propaganda and simply let it pass. It will eventually move on to something more popular and they'll change soap boxes and harp from a new position soon enough.

 

If anyone really gives a shit about the slave trade then why not spend your efforts tracing some of these girls back to their villages and begin the crusade there.

[handman]

bizzjet are you suggesting that the 'slave trade' is acceptable ?

[bizzjet]

bizzjet are you suggesting that the 'slave trade' is acceptable ?

 

Not at all, I'm saying it's a popular flavor for the times and pontificated beyond reasonable logic or belief. Define the term and use it responsibly.

 

But if someone wants to do something about it instead of simply jumping on the whiners’ bandwagon why not go to the root of the problems instead of being an armchair critic in the security of their own home and arrest those that are easy to grab.

 

Same old same old shit from the media, just a different flavor. Whatever sells will do.

 

I’m still waiting to watch a documentary on “Christian missionaries in Thailand and the damage done” which I doubt will ever happen.

 

The rest is just background noise.

Edited November 14, 2008 by bizzjet

[bizzjet]

Having known quite a few girls from the agency and one very well if can only if any be a few which were held and paying back 20K.... all the girls I met were happy and moved around as they wanted... OG even took some of them up to Scotland on holiday.... alot of them had overstayed their visa's though alas so were sent back to Thailand.....

 

Very good comment.

 

It would be nice to hear how many "actual" cases are legit slaves and how many cry slavery when they're caught.

 

Of course we only hear the attention grabbing shit. Not the retract in the papers when it is dicovered the girls arrived on thier own free will.

 

My ex used to bitch about being a slave, she's been set free.

[bizzjet]

..................every incentive to exaggerate and distort the actual facts to suit their needs.

 

Thank you, very eloquently put.

 

I just didn't feel like repeating myself and taking the time to explain it again and again.

 

You definitely have the intelligence to see through all the crap on the issue.

[jpp]

Finland brought in the same law 2 years ago and no one has ever been prosecuted. It's just the UK's governments way of saying they're trying to tackle the problem without doing anything that will actually help people who have been trafficked.

 

How could a court prove the punter did not ask, he can just say she said she wasn't, if she had been trafficked would she dare say she had, for fear of been beaten by the pimp. Would the punter be expected to get the girl to sign a document to say the question had been asked? How many girls from Eastern Europe etc. would have a good enough grasp of English to understand?

 

The UK government needs to take the bold step of creating legalise brothels, ran by a government department with strict controls on who can run them (no one with a criminal record, only ran by women perhaps), regular checks can be made on the people who run the brothels and the women/men who work there. Health checks with certification and access to councillors for workers with drug or social problems. VAT could be charged on each transaction and the workers would pay taxes & national insurance. Taxes generated could be used by the Home Office to tackle genuine human trafficking.

 

The workers would be working in a secure environment, people who are too drunk or who are known trouble makers could be barred entry to the premises. Girls from the EU would be free to come to the UK and work and girls from outside the EU could get visas. It would not eradicate the problem of trafficking completely but if a large proportion of customers go elsewhere it may not make the effort and cost worth while to criminal gangs.

[handman]

We seem to have moved away from the original thread, which was, 'If you knew a girl had been trafficked, would you report it' so katandmilo and bizzjet would you ?

[bizzjet]

Pay attention people.

 

The hard realities that the PC won't mention is that the real trafficked women are mostly imported and in demand for the use of the very people from their home countries. Chinatown's around the world are full of them but as an outsider you'll never have an opportunity to get through those doors.

 

It's too dangerous for the traffickers to have their slave girls circulating in the common market and exposing them to all the do gooders looking to save them.

 

Anyone that has grown up in the western world, including hard core junkies would run straight to the police. And traffickers are aware of this.

 

It's against our social grain, not theirs. They're simply bringing their culture to your home grounds whether you like it or not.

 

Again, advise the crying PC towards the root of the problem and get them to start in the villages where the girls come from. Stop messing around with picking on the poor sap looking to get his dick sucked in shame for doing something that is as natural as breathing.

Edited November 14, 2008 by bizzjet

[bizzjet]

We seem to have moved away from the original thread, which was, 'If you knew a girl had been trafficked, would you report it' so katandmilo and bizzjet would you ?

 

If I as able to get access to a true traffic issue I would have to say without hesitation, a definitive "absolutely".

 

In my country, but not on their turf. Their culture, their business.

Edited November 14, 2008 by bizzjet

[keswick01]

Personally the thought of a girl being "trafficked" against her will disgusts me and I would not get involved with her.

[handman]

katandmilo, if you dont know what the word 'knew' means, I have absolutley no intention of defining it for you, as you clearly wouldnt be able to understand me - buy the Oxford English Dictionery, but put quite simply 'Knew' means 'Knew'

and god save us from colonials who dont understand the Queens English, even though they pretend to speak it !

[chuckrivera]

katandmilo, if you dont know what the word 'knew' means, I have absolutley no intention of defining it for you, as you clearly wouldnt be able to understand me - buy the Oxford English Dictionery, but put quite simply 'Knew' means 'Knew'

and god save us from colonials who dont understand the Queens English, even though they pretend to speak it !

 

Nice run-on sentence, asshat.

Edited November 14, 2008 by chuckrivera

[bizzjet]

katandmilo, if you dont know what the word 'knew' means, I have absolutley no intention of defining it for you, as you clearly wouldnt be able to understand me - buy the Oxford English Dictionery, but put quite simply 'Knew' means 'Knew'

and god save us from colonials who dont understand the Queens English, even though they pretend to speak it !

 

Not wanting to get into the middle of things here, but Dictionary is spelled with a "a", not an "e".

 

Unless the queen's changed it recently.

 

Viva la Colonials!!!!!

Edited November 14, 2008 by bizzjet

[handman]

Well it looks like I am know going to do, what I said I would not do, and define Knew.

I could not find my Oxford English Dictionary, (yes you are right it is with an 'a', my mistake), but here is the Collins English Dictionary (The Autority on Current English), Reference Edition 2007 definition :-

 

Knew, Known, Knowing, (verb)(nown)(verb used with object)

1. to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty; I know the situation fully.

2. to have established or fixed in the mind or memory; to know

3. to be cognizant or aware of it; I know it

4. to have knowledge or clear and certain perception; as to fact or truth

5. to be cognizant or aware as to some fact, circumstance or occurance; have information

6. the fact or state of knowing; knowledge

Archaic - to have sexual intercourse with; as in 'knew her'

 

The American Heritage Dictionary :-

 

Knew - past tense of know

 

Know

1. To percieve directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty

2. To regard as true beyond doubt; I knew (she was trafficked) the 'in brackets' is my addition !

3. To have practical understanding of; as through experience

4. To have fixed in the mind; knows

 

I think we have now exhausted this particular part of the thread, I've enjoyed the banter, but we have got way of the original point, which is a pitty because I think it was a good one.

Katandimilo (not sure if there is one, or two of you, as in kat and milo ? and if so which one am I bantering with ?), but if we ever end up in Pattaya together, (I'm in Town, staying in the timboutique hotel, from 30/11 - 4/12), I will buy you, (or both of you, which ever the case may be), a drink.

I look forward to reading your reply, but promise I will not respond !!

[handman]

Bizzjet - your not a 'French Canadian' are you ?

[bizzjet]

Bizzjet - your not a 'French Canadian' are you ?

 

I haven't asked to borrow money from you, what would make you think I was French Canadian?

 

If you accuse someone of that in Canada you might get treated like a baby harp seal.

 

Why such a horribly insulting question?

[handman]

Sorry bizzjet - didnt mean to cause offence - it was your use of the expression 'viva la colonials' and my only experience of French Canadians stems from a three week stay in Toronto, and is sort of summed up fairly well by your emottocom (is that right ?), ie 'a cow dancing round a pole'

[bizzjet]

Sorry bizzjet - didnt mean to cause offence - it was your use of the expression 'viva la colonials' and my only experience of French Canadians stems from a three week stay in Toronto, and is sort of summed up fairly well by your emottocom (is that right ?), ie 'a cow dancing round a pole'

 

 

LOL...yes the cow around the pole. Fair enough.

 

Sadly if you met some Francophone's in Toronto I must apologize in advance for their poor behavior and overall misrepresentation of Canadians as Toronto is still in the English zone. You need to go to Montreal in the province of Quebec if you want to meet the French. Just don't lend them any money if you ever expect to see them again, they're nasty little shits.

 

No offense taken, but the parallel equivalent would be to assume all British men are Arabic.

[Newton]

I know Of Thai girls coming to the Uk with there English boyfriend , And after a few months the love weres off , The Girl is told fuck off back to Thailand .And put on the Streets, They are now faced with returnig to Thailand and loseing face with there Family , So the only option is to go sell there Pussy , Thats when they end up in some brothel , Probly run by some Eastern Eropean gang ..Thats how many accidently end up working in the London sex trade.As we all know £50 for short time is far more than 1000baht long time in Thailand , Can you blame them .. I for one dont. I blame the Falang who bring them back to the Uk on a wim, After spending a short time in Thailand on Holiday..