Ali "the greatest"?

[Trevor69]

Just watching an Ali/Foreman rerun on tv.In my opinion Ali has to be the greatest sportsman of all time or would you disagree?If so who would be your number one?

[Deuces]

Of all time? No

Of his time? Yes

[whitespider - RIP]

I would agree.

 

The BBc did a sports person of the century in 1999/2000. Ali got more votes than all the others added together. That, of course, is a reflection of peoples "perceptions" rather than proof he WAS but I tend to agree with that perception.

[Baron of Beef]

depends if you talk cultural significance as well, or simply as an athlete. I would argue that he's possibly the most "important" athlete ever (along with Pele maybe). But taking out his charisma and impact on culture, i think a very good case could be made that he wasn't even the best BOXER ever, let alone best sportsman. Nobody has ever been more dominant that Tyson at his peak, and for pure beautiful boxing skill you have to say Sugar Ray Leonard was superior.

 

so it depends on what the criteria are

[whitespider - RIP]

depends if you talk cultural significance as well, or simply as an athlete. I would argue that he's possibly the most "important" athlete ever (along with Pele maybe). But taking out his charisma and impact on culture, i think a very good case could be made that he wasn't even the best BOXER ever, let alone best sportsman. Nobody has ever been more dominant that Tyson at his peak, and for pure beautiful boxing skill you have to say Sugar Ray Leonard was superior.

 

so it depends on what the criteria are

 

I agree totally - again back to the point of "perception". "Best" or "most well know" could be the question.

 

I remember reading that he was the "most recognized" person on the planet. Love him or hate him, large swathes of the planet know who he is. Sugar Ray Leonard may well have been a better boxer but would a kid in Africa know who he was if shown a picture? Perhaps that same kid wouldn't know Ali now but i am sure you get my drift.

 

There are other issues too such as the popularity/credibility of boxing in the older days. The beginning of truly mass media that cried out for "characters" at the right time etc etc. I remember as a very young boy listening to his fights on the RADIO - with ALL family and neighbors and aunts and uncles sitting around. Now you could have a heavy weight fight for the fookknowswhatBC belt and people dont even know its on.

 

This, I believe, is the most famous "sports photograph" of all times. Certainly to be seen hanging on more pub walls than any other. Yet another reason why he is so well known.

 

 

[andyaus]

I am a very big Ali fan. I automatically looked straight past the bravado and showmanship and saw the pure genius that he possessed combining a natural ability plus the skill to dominate his sport.

How do you compare his greatness with others from different sports.

Tiger Woods has dominated proffessional golf to the extent that he looked unbeatable for a number of years. His natural ability plus timing makes him outstanding in a very competative field.

As an Australian we have two contenders for geatest sportsmen who have dominated in their chosen sports.

The first is Don Bradmen. Cricket is ruled by statistics so we can look at the batting averages and compare players against the greats of yesterday. Bradmans batting average of 99.94 compares with the games greats who range rom 50 to 60 runs per innings. Of all the cricket players in the world Bradman was 50 % better than any other player has ever been. Not bad for a guy who was only 5 foot 7 inches tall.

The second greatest sportsman contender is a man who changed the face of the game he excelled in. Walter Lindrum was world billiard champion for 17 years. He held 57 world records and some are still standng today 60 years after he retired. His record break of 4137 forced a change in the rules to make players hit balls off cushions after about 50 scoring shots. This didn’t stop Lindrum who continude to dominate he sport. He was so good, that other players around the world refused to play against him and the crowds stopped turning up because they just assumed he would win. Billiards has never recovered and the less skillful game of snooker now dominates.

My last contender for the worlds greatest sportsman is a Pakistani. Jahangir Khan. He was unbeatable in the 1990s. He won 555 games in a row to win 10 British opens and 6 times world champion. Khan was unbeaten for 5 years and 8 months. The secret to his success...he was the fittest player on the circuit.

I have left out some really good athletes like Michael Phelps with 22 gold medals and Michael Schumacher 7 times formula 1 winner because although they are exceptional sportsmen they haven’t dominated their sport like these athletes.

[mikeyboy]

I love sport , and watching Ali in those great fights though the seventies always stayed with me .

 

Watching them again i'm still convinced he's the greatest . The fact that he was beaten twice in his prime ( joe Frazier and Ken Norton ) doesn't diminish the way he elevated his sport and inspired millions .

 

Mikeyboy

[south7eventh]

They had Ali winning the title against Sonny Liston in Miami on ESPN Classic yesterday.  Liston had destroyed Floyd Patterson twice and was deemed virtually unbeatable.  He boasted that he would win in two.  Ali, then fighting as Cassius Marcellus Clay, famously made faces at press cameramen sitting in the corner between rounds he was THAT scared.

 

What marred Ali's career was the way he was manipulated by his political/religious handlers. They mishandled his money, mishandled his marriages, mishandled his life..  It was cruel that Ali realised this too late and he was forced into fighting for four or five years after he should have retired in order to rescue himself from probable poverty.  It is the punishment that he received in these last fights that brought on the Parkinson's Disease that incapacitates him today.  His Black Muslim handlers are not around to help today.

[jocky king]

Float like a butterfly, Sting like a bee.. Yeah he is the greatest. Threw the gold medal in the sea, No one ever found it .

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WsAC4lhbE0g

[SLEUTH]

I think Ali is the default when people are asked who is the greatest sportsman of all time, so the answer is, he is probably is.

 

I think it is difficult to split the various greatest up fro their respective sports. Pele,Phil Taylor,Steve Davis,Jack Nicklaus,Roger Federer,Gareth Edwards,Jonah Lomu, David Campese,  Ellery Hanley, Scumacher,Frankie Dettori,Willie Shoemaker or Lester Piggott.

 

Cycling who knows maybe Eddie Merckx or Miguel Indurain

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For me it is difficult to split the sports

[Pattaya_Brian]

I think Ali is the default when people are asked who is the greatest sportsman of all time...

 

I think it is difficult to split the various greatest up fro their respective sports...

 

For me it is difficult to split the sports

 

Very true.

 

For those who have never played the game, the incredible degree of difficulty in mastering baseball is probably lost.

 

So I have to mention Lou Gehrig

[Al.]

Cassius Clay was 100 times better than Ali

[mousemat]

Six months ago I would have probably said Lance Armstrong but now I would suggest one of the following:

 

Pete Sampras

Maradona

Michael Phelps

Martina Navratilova - 18 grand slams

Steve Redgrave - won rowing gold at 4 Olympics

Sashin Tendaulker - Cricket god

 

Some of the hype surrounding Ali relates to his media friendly persona - if he had the charisma of Andy Murray then he would not be considered the greatest.

[sinbad5]

Lionel Messi

[jocky king]

Lionel Messi

He is a great player but to be the greatest he had to win the world Cup for Argentina, but he had not done yet.

[bigbill340]

I vote for 'Eddie the Eagle' he was a true champion in my books!

 

But so many greats that have graced various sports throughout the years!

 

Don Bradmen(as mentioned)

 

Tiger Woods(also mentioned)

 

Tyson

 

Senna

 

Babe Ruth

 

Rocky Marciano

 

Bob Nudd

 

It all really depends on who you admire and for what reasons as to who your best are!

 

 

 

Bill

[The Seeker]

It wasn't just the boxing it was what he said. Below are just a very few of my favourite Ali quotes:

 

“The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights.”

“A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.”

“If you even dream of beating me you'd better wake up and apologize.”

[sinbad5]

How about Warnie then?

 

Or Dawn Fraser.

[Phil McCracken]

Babe Ruth, easily. Would have been HOF pitcher if he didn't hit so well. His record for consecutive scoreless World Series innings pitched stood for 43 years. More home runs than any AL team his first year as a full time hitter, became all-time HR champ after his 3rd full season as a hitter. 

 

He changed the way the most popular sport was played; from small ball, with bunts and speed, to high scoring slugfests; they changed all the materials and dimensions of the sport to adjust to his skill set; new style balls, bats, built huge cavernous stadiums. 

 

I read a few books on him. He basically invented charisma and flamboyance. Wore mink coats, smoked cigars, got drunk and lived in whorehouses doing half the crew; raced his Caddy convertible bombed thru NYC; his first interview as a Yankee he invited the press into his hotel room and was in bed with 3 chinese hookers. (Ali and Deion Sanders, even Elvis were mere footnotes compared to his flamboyance). He rented out the entire top floor of a Ritzy hotel during the season, and had parties for the rich and famous every night. He was paid $80k a year in 1920s...the avg pay of stars in the 1960s was $6-8000. 

 

I viewed the 1920-8 microfilm in a library once to read about him. He was front page news almost every day he played. Hitting them out of the park 500-50 ft regularly, when everyone else was bunting. They documented all his HRS in the paper. (useless trivia time) He hit 255 hrs over 450 feet. (Bonds had 3 until age 38, when he went on roids.) Deep left center field was 502 ft in NYC, 488 straight away. He probably hit 500-1000 flyball outs that went 420-440 that would be called towering HRS in today's parks. Until 1935, if you hit a home run over the fence, and it landed foul, it was a foul ball. He hit hundreds of those.  

 

His 15 year run of dominance in every category was ridiculous, and he had the WS rings to prove it. 

 

Page down to leaders section.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml

[bgtp]

Asking a bunch of people in 1999/2000 who they think is the best sportsman of the 20th century is will be biased towards athletes who are/were alive while the people polled were alive. Sportsman of the early part of the century also did not have the same type of exposure as those of the last past of the century as media technology also changed. 

 

Ali's greatness in boxing combined with his personality and showmanship certainly make him one of the most popular athletes of all time, though. He was definitely one of the greatest boxers as well. I'd rank him above Sugar Ray Leonard (but not Sugar Ray Robinson) and easily above Tyson. Funny thing is, his prime years may have been spent in prison.

[teddyb]

I completely agree with Bm A1. Although Ali was absolutely brilliant, the young Cassius was infinitely better.Watch the fight against Cleveland 'the cat' Williams from 1966, as this I believe, was his greatest fight ever.I never tire of watching this.His performance was so sublime, just take a look at the first minute of round 1,he didn't throw a punch of any note but just danced and danced,poetry in motion and then after totally mesmerising him for the next few rounds, knocked him out.God I loved that man.Yes he was the GREATEST !!!

[Luv2Phuket]

I agree totally - again back to the point of "perception". "Best" or "most well know" could be the question.

 

I remember reading that he was the "most recognized" person on the planet. Love him or hate him, large swathes of the planet know who he is. Sugar Ray Leonard may well have been a better boxer but would a kid in Africa know who he was if shown a picture? Perhaps that same kid wouldn't know Ali now but i am sure you get my drift.

 

There are other issues too such as the popularity/credibility of boxing in the older days. The beginning of truly mass media that cried out for "characters" at the right time etc etc. I remember as a very young boy listening to his fights on the RADIO - with ALL family and neighbors and aunts and uncles sitting around. Now you could have a heavy weight fight for the fookknowswhatBC belt and people dont even know its on.

 

This, I believe, is the most famous "sports photograph" of all times. Certainly to be seen hanging on more pub walls than any other. Yet another reason why he is so well known.

 

muhammad_ali_versus_sonny_liston.jpg

 

That photo is hanging in my living room -- got it signed by Ali about 15 years ago (he was already in pretty bad shape then)

[cytolliver]

Michael Jordan

 

Even a kid living in an igloo with no electricity will know who Air Jordan is.

[mikeyboy]

 

How about Warnie then?

 

Or Dawn Fraser.

Shane Warne is the best cricketer i have seen , although record books indicate the Don would be in with a shout .

 

Mikeyboy

[sinbad5]

 Shane Warne is the best cricketer i have seen , although record books indicate the Don would be in with a shout .

 

Mikeyboy

Greatest bowler, no doubt. Forget Mulralyduran's figures. Who did he get them against?

 

Viv Richards is the most elegant/arrogant batsman I've ever had the pleasure to see at close quarters. Total distain for the oppositon. Adam Gilchrist also has claims. (And, I can also attest, a total gentleman).

 

Dawn was in fact voted "Athlete of the century" by an international body.

 

http://www.dawnfraser.com.au/profile.htm

 

If she hadn't been wrongly banned she would have competed in a third Olympics in 1968 and won there too.

 

Also, I once heard John McEnroe say that Rod Laver is the greatest tennis player ever (but that was before the Federer era - he is awesome - and is probably the best ever).