Agogo Photography

[mcb]

I know there are some very experienced and good photographers on here, so any useful tips would be appreciated -

 

I'm going to be taking some publicity photos of the lovely ladies in an agogo in a few days.

My concern is the low light. I want to avoid using the flash if possible to capture the natural light clours and also to avoid the reflection in the mass of mirrors.

 

I only have my standard Canon 550D, bult-in flash with f/3.5-5.6 here.

 

My intention is to set AV at the lowest f/3.5 and either use automatic shutter speed (which may result in blur) or try at about 1/25 (which may be too dark). I really don't want to push the ISO above 1200.

 

The alternative is to go with flash and angle to the mirrors to avoid reflection, but would this kill the multi-coloured surrounding lighting?

 

Some photos will be solo girls on the seats and some will be of all the girls hugging their poles....

 

I know it's a tough job, but someone has to do it.............. Any advice or tips would be very much appreciated, especially if you've had experience in these conditions yourself.

 

Cheers

[ricktoronto]

Use a tripod and there is nothing wrong with flash as long as it is not directly at the subject.

[mcb]

Unfortunately, I'll be moving around, so a tripod isn't going to work and the flash is built in :-(

This is all I have here, and I don't want to buy equipment that I already have back home.

[Perthie]

I'm kinda interested in what any of the experts have to say on this topic, for reasons which will become clear after my Halloween trip (all above board by the way, no sneaky pic's being taken)

 

I'm still learning how to play with my new toy, the Nikon D3200.

 

Bumbling around on the net, I think I should get good results with no flash and an ISO of 3200, though I don't intend to use a tripod. I'm aiming at using the standard 18-55 lens, which does amazing work, though I have an f1.4 50mm lens if need be (but of course, no zoom on that little thing).

 

I really want to utilise the ambient gogo lighting to capture the feel of the place, though I guess some individual shots will need flash.

 

Any helpful tips lads?

 

Apologies to the OP for jumping into his Post, I figure any responses will probably be useful to both of us.

 

Cheers

 

Perthie

[FROST MEDIC999]

Best Tip Matey is to make sure you hold the Camera steady hence the advice about Tripod.

 

Maybe get a one leg Tripid shoit at your setting and,do not move camera even pressing the button can off set low level shots so maybe consider auto time and 3 secs so you are not pressing to shoot

[Edge]

PM Kokat if he doesn't see this - he might be able to help you out.

 

.

[mcb]

@Perthie - No problem for jumping in. All input appreciated and hopefully we can learn a few things from the more experienced!

 

@Ghost - Capturing the pose of girls with possible low-attention span puts me off using a timer.

 

I was considering using remote capture from my netbook (via USB cable), and setting up a tripod, which I think would work well for fixed situations, but I really like the idea of moving around and different angles, making a tripod (or one-pod) impractical.

[Perthie]

@Perthie - No problem for jumping in. All input appreciated and hopefully we can learn a few things from the more experienced!

 

@Ghost - Capturing the pose of girls with possible low-attention span puts me off using a timer.

 

I was considering using remote capture from my netbook (via USB cable), and setting up a tripod, which I think would work well for fixed situations, but I really like the idea of moving around and different angles, making a tripod (or one-pod) impractical.

Thanks mcb.

 

I'm kinda in the position where everyone's relying on me to get the job done, so I'll probably be run out of Pattaya if I screw up.

 

I have about a week in town before I need to act all professional, so hopefully I'll have a grip on what I'm doing by then........

 

OK, over to the experts, share your wisdom with us Oh photographic masters - please!!

 

Cheers

 

Perthie

[Spanky99]

I'm assuming you are using the stock 18-55 lens. Only way you are going to keep it at the 3.5 is if you don't zoom. The minute you start zooming the aperture is going to go up. I'll be honest and say right now the lens is going to kill you but you can work around it. I don't know the 550 that well but crank the ISO to 800 and do some test shoots. You are going to want to keep that shutter speed above 1/60th as anything lower is going to blur as you won't be able to hand hold it. So that means shooting in manual and using that light meter. You could over expose the images and to compensate for the lighting in a gogo. White balance it for florence light or shade and do some more test shots. I would not use AV. You aren't that far from manual at this point and the camera light meter will help you keep you in range.

 

You said you don't want to use flash because you only have built-in and don't want to kill the ambient lighting (which sucks in a gogo). You can bounce that flash by taking a piece of white cardboard or card stock and bounce it. Just hold it with some tape to the body. There are some bounces for built-in flashes but not sure if you can get them in Thailand. It won't be perfect but it could work. I would also lower the flash power down and use as much ambient light around you. That way the flash won't be as harsh and will look more natural. If you are shooting the girls you want soft light on a female it brings out their features better. Watch out for mirrors behind whatever you are shoot or near your sides. If you have them on one side you can have someone just hold a broken down beer box or something up to act as a flag to catch the light and stop it from bouncing off mirrors.

 

I'll just be honest. If you are getting paid and they are expecting quality you are going to be hard pressed to deliver it because you don't have the gear to do it. If you are doing it for free or as a favor and they are just wanting some basic shots you can pull it off with what you have. You can fix a lot of stuff in post production but you should shoot for good quality out of the gate. I wish you the best.

 

PS - If you want some tips do a Google search on shooting live music in clubs or concerts. The lighting is about the same. You just have the benefit of having stationary targets instead of some wanna be rockstar moving all over the god damn stage or "rocking" out to the music.

[Scumbag]

I am no expert but I will jump in a give it a go.... I think you are going to struggle to get sharp images. The general rule is that the minimum shutter (to get sharp images with hand held shots) is the reciprocal of the focal length, that is:

 

Min Shutter Speed (secs) = 1/Focal Length (mm)

 

So at 1/25 your maximum focal length should be 25mm, which is not ideal for portraits.

 

I think the other thing you need to consider is that your camera is going to try to balance the light so you may end up losing the ambient light colour anyway. Even if you don't I think the colour of the lights look pretty awful in portraits.

 

If you want decent photos inside a gogo bar I think lighting is the way to go. You can then use a apeture/exposure setting to get the girls in white light and pick up some of the ambient light in the background to set the scene. Although you would not be able to easily move around. The guys at Apex hire gear and should be able to help you out if you decide you need something.

 

On another note have you check that using an aperture of 3.5 gives you enough DOF?

[Spanky99]

On another note have you check that using an aperture of 3.5 gives you enough DOF?

 

For a portrait yes. If you are doing the bar layout no. Most portrait photographers shoot for a shallow DOF to keep the subject in focus. Even in environmental portraits where I'm shooting the subject plus the environment the most I'll go is 7. It also depends on the lens I was using. I just did a shoot last night with a 35mm set at f/2 on white seamless. Good times!

[mcb]

Thanks Spanky & Scumbag.... some great advice there.

 

Yes, it's more of a free favour than a pro shoot so I don't want to get extra equipment, especially as I have it already (but not here!)

I'm prepared for some post-production work and know I'm very limited with what I have with me.

 

Yes, to get the most of the light, I don't intend to zoom. On the stage there is more light, so this shouldn't be as much of a problem.

 

For the size and quality required, I think I can go up to 1200 ISO max.

 

I like the idea of bouncing the flash off some card. I'll check that out.

 

I will have some time to do some test shots first, but I want to go in with a few options prepared.

[mcb]

How to make a supersimple bounce flash for your dSLR

 

http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57474371-285/how-to-make-a-supersimple-bounce-flash-for-your-dslr/

[Scumbag]

I'm prepared for some post-production work and know I'm very limited with what I have with me.

Just in case you haven't thought about it make sure you save the RAW files if you have the means to process them.

[Spanky99]

Nice find on the bounce. Scumbag is right. Shoot in RAW and when you are reviewing your images on the camera use your histogram so you can see where any problems are. If most of it is to the right you are over exposed and if you have too much to the left you are under exposed. The histogram is your friend.

 

I would tell you to cheat and convert the images to black and white but its a gogo so kinda defeats the purpose but you can hide so much in black and white.

[mcb]

While the experts are online - What sort of adjustments would I need to make for bouncing the light? Purely exposure?

[Scumbag]

While the experts are online - What sort of adjustments would I need to make for bouncing the light? Purely exposure?

You will need to experiment to get the right exposure and aperture settings to get the exposure right and balance the two light sources. As the flash is of a shorter duration than the exposure time adjusting the exposure has no affect on gathering more light from the flash. Aperture is what controls how much of the flash light gets to the detector. The exposure time governs how much ambient light you collect because it will be present during the whole exposure. In summary the aperture is important for the light from the flash and the exposure time is important for the ambient light.

[Scumbag]

How to make a supersimple bounce flash for your dSLR

 

http://howto.cnet.co...-for-your-dslr/

I thought I would check the link out. What colour is the ceiling in the bar? If it isn't white this may not be a good option. Most gogo bars have dark ceilings which would render this this option useless. If it is not white you may have an ugly colour cast.

[mcb]

Much appreciated advice guys.

I may try and get in the day before and do some test shots with a few different setting and see what's working with their lighting.

My intention is to give one of the girls my point-and-shoot set yo automatic, and let her get some more "natural" girl poses. I'll be gutted if they turn out better than mine :-)

[mcb]

I thought I would check the link out. What colour is the ceiling in the bar? If it isn't white this may not be a good option. Most gogo bars have dark ceilings which would render this this option useless. If it is not white you may have an ugly colour cast.

 

Yes - black ceiling, mirrors on all the walls.

 

Mybe a thin paper bounce, which will let through some light

[Spanky99]

Yes - black ceiling, mirrors on all the walls.

 

Mybe a thin paper bounce, which will let through some light

 

Black ceiling isn't going to bounce. It's just going to absorb the light.

 

Mirror on walls you are going to want to block that flash from bouncing off the mirrors by having someone hold something between you and the mirrors.

 

You are getting into the absurdly complicated but you could buy a piece of white foamcore from an office supply store (large sheet of white paper) or you can go to a camera shop and buy a 5 -1 reflector and have them hold it above your camera at an angle for the bounce. The reflector will be between 500-1000 baht. You will get even light distribution that way.

 

Scumbag gave you some aperture and shutter info. The smaller the aperture number means more light you get. The higher the aperture number means less light. If you are shooting in low light you are going to want to keep your lens at the smallest aperture you can and still keep the images sharp. Most lenses aren't at their sweet spot wide open. If you can get away with it try and shoot between 4 or 5.6 to keep things consistent. You are going to need to keep your shutter speed at 1/60th or higher with something along the lines of 1/100 or faster to be really assured of little blur. The the longer the shutter is open the more light gets in to the sensor. Shooting in lower light you want the tripod so you can use lower shutter speeds to avoid camera shake. You can help this out by turning up your ISO but the higher the ISO the more noise you are going to get. I already said I don't know the 550D but I would really not push that sensor above 800 in the ISO. This will help you with the shutter speed and being able to stop the aperture down to keep images sharper. You could go to 1200 but you are going to spend some time in post sharpening and the images and removing noise.

 

My other piece of advice is you sound nervous it. Just remember to breath and get into a zone. Your first shots are going to be complete shit unless the photography Buddha is smiling on you. Warm up before you go. Sounds stupid because you are just pressing a shutter button but you want to feel comfortable with that camera in your hands and shooting and directing people. Get into the frame of mind by wandering around and snapping some stuff. Shoot the girls in candids just hanging out and being themselves to loosen you up. Doesn't matter if they are complete shit. You are getting ready for the real thing. If you start to feel overwhelmed again, breath. Use the knowledge you have to get the best shots you can. It's digital so fire away to make sure you get the shot you want. I rather take 1500 pictures and turn in 30 quality shots than 30 pictures and have zero quality shots. Don't be afraid to be remorseless in post processing. If you can, dump the images to your computer and let them sit a day or two then come back to them and look at them when you aren't emotionally attached to them.

 

Just remember... breath!

[mcb]

@Spanky... Thanks for the pointers and clarification. Really useful stuff.

I wouldn't say I was nervous, just out of my element with this type of photography. I agreed to do it for the experience. And from the info here and what I've already found... it's a good learning experience.

 

Managed to pick up a 50mm f/1.8 lens, so that should help a bit.

 

Hopefully a few of the 1500 photos will turn out ok :-)

 

If so, I'll try and post some here.

[Spanky99]

Always a learning experience but trust me, you will get nervous. Hell I shoot all the time and still get nervous which is the nearest term I can think of. I start to think what if and then it goes to shit. So I just putter around and shoot or direct my assistants (oh.. yeah thats me too) to stage the lighting. I talk to my subjects about random stuff or mindlessly answer their photography questions mostly from women, 'so a large camera means you have a large penis' which I naturally respond yes (sadly that hasn't happened). I do everything but worry about the shoot to try and take my mind off the fact I'm about to shoot. I have to trust myself that I know what I am doing and just go with it.

 

I do visualize my shots so I know what I want when I'm going in and I talk to the person to see what they want. I also just let shit happen. You get better pictures if people are just themselves. When they try too hard it usually fails unless they are professional models or actors. Talking to them and getting them comfortable is key so they forget that they are standing in front of a camera. Direct them a little bit but let them be themselves. The shoot I did on Monday the guy was a MBA but you would assume he was the biggest clown as he just went wild with his expressions. Great stuff and easy to shoot. We just both did our things and chatted and made fun of each other which kept the shoot light and not serious.

 

I wish you luck and enjoy the experience.

[bionome]

Another thing you should do is start shooting a few weeks before you go so that you get to know your equipment with out having to look at your settings learning your equipment like it a part of you will help a great deal. Also if you are going to shoot at a low shutter speed like 1/25 you should try and see if you can hand hold it with out shaking. Also this way you can take some notes to see about how your flash and lens and camera acts together. Good Luck.

[mcb]

Yes, I wish I had more time to get used to the the equipment. After a test shoot the day before, I decided to invest in a flash unit. Canon speedlite 430 ex ii.

 

This is what I learned from the night -

 

It's important to get the White balance right as otherwise everything came out red.

The black walls/ceiling and mirrors everywhere meant that taking photos around the seating areas wasn't going to work. )The seating areas didn't look so good anyway!!).

I let the flash ETTL take care of the exposure. Maybe when I'm more familiar with it, I can use manual control.

To gain as much ambient light as possible, you want the f-stop set as small as possible and the shutter speed as slow as possible.

Blur isn't much of an issue as the flash speed freezes the motion, so you can drop the shutter speed right down.

 

Now after all this, the night of the actual shoot didn't go well. The friendly (active) girls from the day before weren't there and the rest just stood behind the poles or faced away. I understand that many girls don't want family, etc, getting to know that they work in a Pattaya agogo, but they were told they had to have their photos taken and that it was just for promoting the agogo.

I heard something about the girls saying they aren't getting paid for it, so why do it?..!!!!

 

Anyway, that was out of my control. So a repeat shoot will take place at some point.

 

It's been a quick learning curve and I now know a lot more about photography.... and also know there's a lot more I need to know :-)

Here's a shot from the test-shoot night.