What is the most difficult golf course to play around Pattaya

[Birdieboy]

I am a scratch golfer and use to play professionally in the states now i just bang it around for fun but i haven't seen much mention on here about Pattavia and I feel like that track can be a true test. The greens are very tricky and makes the golf course very demanding giving that there are many times that if you hit it on the wrong spot on the green it can be next to impossible to get down in 2 putts 

[Skalliwag]

I am a scratch golfer and use to play professionally in the states now i just bang it around for fun but i haven't seen much mention on here about Pattavia and I feel like that track can be a true test. The greens are very tricky and makes the golf course very demanding giving that there are many times that if you hit it on the wrong spot on the green it can be next to impossible to get down in 2 putts

 

Playing it for the first time in Feb.

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

Pattavia is a real test. I thought the greens at Bangphara were fast till I played Pattavia. Try getting away with 2 putts on the 18th, if you hit the top end of the green....downhill all the way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[Kanga]

Pattavia is a real test. I thought the greens at Bangphara were fast till I played Pattavia. Try getting away with 2 putts on the 18th, if you hit the top end of the green....downhill all the way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

I think the 8th is worse (short dogleg) and the upturned saucer that is the 14th or 15th?.

At least the greens have been more playable recently (12-18 months ago they were ridiculously fast) although from yesterday's experience they are getting quicker again.

As mentioned above you need to be below the hole on most of the greens to avoid a 3 putt.

[fatjack1]

I am a scratch golfer and use to play professionally in the states now i just bang it around for fun but i haven't seen much mention on here about Pattavia and I feel like that track can be a true test. The greens are very tricky and makes the golf course very demanding giving that there are many times that if you hit it on the wrong spot on the green it can be next to impossible to get down in 2 putts 

 

 

My biggest problem at Pattavia is I could not read the greens.  And they have severe breaks.  I have never been scratch but I am able to read greens usually so this was frustrating.  So yes, a good test of your game.

[Skalliwag]

My biggest problem at Pattavia is I could not read the greens.  And they have severe breaks.  I have never been scratch but I am able to read greens usually so this was frustrating.  So yes, a good test of your game.

Singles are there.Never played it.

I should be ripe.lol.

[bossofzip]

I am a scratch golfer and use to play professionally in the states now i just bang it around for fun but i haven't seen much mention on here about Pattavia and I feel like that track can be a true test. The greens are very tricky and makes the golf course very demanding giving that there are many times that if you hit it on the wrong spot on the green it can be next to impossible to get down in 2 putts 

 

Go to page 4 of this topic , Pattavia gets a few mentions there

 

Nowhere near as fast now the greens , dumbed down because all the whining about the speed over the past 12 - 18 months

 

As more people played it , more whining .

 

Greens were always true , when speedy , much easier to attribute fault to the green speed , than the ability (or lack thereof) to adapt 

 

I wouldn't expect an ex pro to have excessive problems , but 3 putts are only a lack of concentration away , certainly

[Scuba+]

Go to page 4 of this topic , Pattavia gets a few mentions there

 

Nowhere near as fast now the greens , dumbed down because all the whining about the speed over the past 12 - 18 months

 

As more people played it , more whining .

 

Greens were always true , when speedy , much easier to attribute fault to the green speed , than the ability (or lack thereof) to adapt

 

I wouldn't expect an ex pro to have excessive problems , but 3 putts are only a lack of concentration away , certainly

Yes i agree, I've always liked the greens, fair test. Only once a year+ ago on one occasion they were unplayable. Bangpra had the same problem on one day. Extremely slick greens, cut and nearly all pins at the front. Both courses are in my top 5 courses. Unfortunately some guys never forget those bad days and refuse to go back and that includes golf organisers.

[fatjack1]

Go to page 4 of this topic , Pattavia gets a few mentions there

 

Nowhere near as fast now the greens , dumbed down because all the whining about the speed over the past 12 - 18 months

 

As more people played it , more whining .

 

Greens were always true , when speedy , much easier to attribute fault to the green speed , than the ability (or lack thereof) to adapt 

 

I wouldn't expect an ex pro to have excessive problems , but 3 putts are only a lack of concentration away , certainly

 

THAT'S the problem.  

[Scuba+]

I played Pattavia the other day, still very good condition, fairways the best I've seen, better then Pattana. Greens as tricky as ever, i forgot, on every hole you need to land the ball in maybe one segment to guarantee the par. Always nice caddies there

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

I played Pattavia the other day, still very good condition, fairways the best I've seen, better then Pattana. Greens as tricky as ever, i forgot, on every hole you need to land the ball in maybe one segment to guarantee the par. Always nice caddies there

Looking forward to playing Pattavia again in 2017....how did you get on with the 18th green?....fastest I have experienced anywhere.

[Scuba+]

Looking forward to playing Pattavia again in 2017....how did you get on with the 18th green?....fastest I have experienced anywhere.

18th par 5 was good. Long drive, good 2nd just short of green, average chip led to a 5. Lots of good holes at Pattavia. I can't remember the numbers but many holes where if you leave the approach the wrong side of the flag a 3 putt is likely.

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

18th par 5 was good. Long drive, good 2nd just short of green, average chip led to a 5. Lots of good holes at Pattavia. I can't remember the numbers but many holes where if you leave the approach the wrong side of the flag a 3 putt is likely.

The other uber-fast green I can recall is at Bangphra - hole six (I think - short, uphill par 4). Usually a front-pin, so hard to get the ball on the front edge. If your ball is up at the top of the green, faced with the slickest of surfaces and a massive down-hiller,  it is almost impossible to reach the hole without your ball sliding past and off the green.

[Scuba+]

The other uber-fast green I can recall is at Bangphra - hole six (I think - short, uphill par 4). Usually a front-pin, so hard to get the ball on the front edge. If your ball is up at the top of the green, faced with the slickest of surfaces and a massive down-hiller, it is almost impossible to reach the hole without your ball sliding past and off the green.

Yes, Treasure Hill is easily the hardest though, brutal, with 18 hard holes. Even the short par 3 has a big slope back to front so if you go long a bogey is likely. I find Pattavia far easier than Treasure Hill and much more enjoyable.

[Scuba+]

Here's my rating of hardest courses out of the ones i've played (from white/further back tees)

 

1) Treasure Hill

2) Bangpra

3) Khoa Kheow

4) Mountain Shadow

5) Pattavia

6) Greenwood

7) Pattana (white tees)

8) Green Valley

9) Pleasant Valley

10) Crystal Bay

11) Pattana (yellow tees)

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

Here's my rating of hardest courses out of the ones i've played (from white/further back tees)

 

1) Treasure Hill

2) Bangpra

3) Khoa Kheow

4) Mountain Shadow

5) Pattavia

6) Greenwood

7) Pattana (white tees)

8) Green Valley

9) Pleasant Valley

10) Crystal Bay

11) Pattana (yellow tees)

A very good summary. For high handicappers, I would say that Silky Oak is very challenging - particularly off the back tees....a dozen or so tee shots over the water. I hit a decent length drive so Silky Oaks is good for me, but a couple of months back I was drawn to play with a 4 handicapper and two guys on 20+...the latter 2 lads really struggled.

[Scuba+]

A very good summary. For high handicappers, I would say that Silky Oak is very challenging - particularly off the back tees....a dozen or so tee shots over the water. I hit a decent length drive so Silky Oaks is good for me, but a couple of months back I was drawn to play with a 4 handicapper and two guys on 20+...the latter 2 lads really struggled.

I'd be interested to know where Siam old would fit in to that list, it looks wide open walking round it. Maybe the other courses too.

[Maninmanama]

I'd be interested to know where Siam old would fit in to that list, it looks wide open walking round it. Maybe the other courses too.

Siam old is always beautifully presented, excellently trained and polite caddies, and if you play of the correct tees for you, tee to green is relatively straightforward. It's defences are the bunker and greens. Slick. Undulating. Getting the ball in the right place on the green. And a ball hitting the green is not guaranteed to stay there, many are upturned saucers.

 

 

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[Scuba+]

Siam old is always beautifully presented, excellently trained and polite caddies, and if you play of the correct tees for you, tee to green is relatively straightforward. It's defences are the bunker and greens. Slick. Undulating. Getting the ball in the right place on the green. And a ball hitting the green is not guaranteed to stay there, many are upturned saucers.

 

 

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So using the above list as a guide where would Siam old fit in?

[Maninmanama]

So using the above list as a guide where would Siam old fit in?

Have played 2,3,6,7,8 and personally harder than all of them, or let's just say a better test. There are tougher / other popular courses not on this list eg Laem Chabang, St Andrews, Phoenix, Burapha, Siam Plantation, Eastern Star. Raises a good point that I should try some of the others on the list and open my eyes!

 

 

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[Scuba+]

Have played 2,3,6,7,8 and personally harder than all of them, or let's just say a better test. There are tougher / other popular courses not on this list eg Laem Chabang, St Andrews, Phoenix, Burapha, Siam Plantation, Eastern Star. Raises a good point that I should try some of the others on the list and open my eyes!

 

 

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There are a few I've forgotten because they aren't on my play list any more. Just my view.

1) Treasure Hill

2) Bangpra

3) Khoa Kheow

4) Eastern Star

5) Emerald

6) Mountain Shadow

7) Pattavia

8) Greenwood

9) Pattana (white tees)

10) Green Valley

11) Pleasant Valley

12) Burapha

13) Phoenix

14) Silky Oak

15) Crystal Bay

16) Pattana (yellow tees)

 

I don't play Silky Oak or Burapha anymore as compulsory cart, i don't play Eastern Star and Emerald as i dislike them with a passion.

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

Yes, I dislike the compulsory cart....I try and walk Burapha and leave the caddy in the cart...friggin waste of money. The way Silky Oaks is set-up (distance between tees) a cart is needed.

[hammerman]

I am a low handicapper and have played nearly all the Pattaya courses over the years, (except Silky Oaks).

My perception of difficult is possibly different to many others, Because of the guys I play with I always found Khoa Kheow and grind

but having played it in November for the first time in many years, it was not so bad. Think the caddies put the fear of God into you, with the constant

"OB left, water right" etc on every tee.

Mountain Shadow is the one for me, good layout, but probably some of the smallest greens I have ever played, nearly all raised somewhat and if you miss them you are generally at the bottom of a slope, or bounded off into the scrub, if you are lucky your ball is just off the edge and 2inches down in that horrible grass so that getting a club to the back off the ball is nigh on impossible.

Would like to play more of the courses of the back tees, and see how they shape up. 

[sulu]

How many do you think would constitute "loads of shots" ?

 

I would recommend keeping it on the fairway , to avoid the majority of the "crabgrass , don't hit it in those "poor bunkers" , play to the spots where the trees don't impact on your next shot.  The tree in front of the White/Yellow tee on 18 has been removed , so it is now a pretty much straight forward tee shot.

 

The trees from the Black tees are part of the course design , where shots are required , whether it be a fade or draw to optimise the positioning from the tee.

 

Everything is there in front of you , no hidden tricks or hazards , play what shot is needed , or make allowances in your course management for not having that shot , & hope your short game saves you.

 

From your post it indicates you have not played there for a while , it is worth a visit & perhaps a reassessment .  

 

As for your pro pal , most pros expect to play on tournament standard & condition courses every time they tee it up , not too many courses around here fit that bill.

 

Treasure Hill / Pleasant Valley ,  mmmm , sort of says it all with regard to the Topic title.

 

Couple of problems with Treasure Hill. 

 

I've only played it a couple of times so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there are about 6 or 7 holes with trees in the fairway CLEARLY in play off the tee (and not just from the blacks - s/b from almost every tee if the course is designed properly). Can't think of any course I've played with more than 1 or 2 trees IN the fairway affecting the tee shot.

 

The 1st hole is a par 5 with ZERO options. First shot somewhere in the fairway, 2nd shot a layup between the trees and a 3rd ot the green. Any par 5 that's virtually impossible to hit in 2 is a poorly designed hole IMO.

 

2nd hole is a long par 3, played into the wind and over water. 1st time we played it 1 guy, who wasn't exactly short (though not long either) played wedge off the tee short of the water and another wedge to the green. Ridiculous.

 

Now these are just what sticks out in my mind and I haven't played it more than twice so,,,,,,,,

 

IMO, course ratings and slope are very indicative of toughness around Patts. KK is rated quite low, Greenwood and Pattavia fairly high.

 

Pattavia has a number of holes where the pins are in "illegal" locations. "

 

"An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade. In no case should holes be located in tricky places, or on sharp slopes where a ball can gather speed. A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole."

 

Every time I play Pattavia there are, at minimum, 3 or 4 holes that do not fit this requirement. But I DO love the course,,,,,,,,,

[Scuba+]

Couple of problems with Treasure Hill.

 

I've only played it a couple of times so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there are about 6 or 7 holes with trees in the fairway CLEARLY in play off the tee (and not just from the blacks - s/b from almost every tee if the course is designed properly). Can't think of any course I've played with more than 1 or 2 trees IN the fairway affecting the tee shot.

 

The 1st hole is a par 5 with ZERO options. First shot somewhere in the fairway, 2nd shot a layup between the trees and a 3rd ot the green. Any par 5 that's virtually impossible to hit in 2 is a poorly designed hole IMO.

 

2nd hole is a long par 3, played into the wind and over water. 1st time we played it 1 guy, who wasn't exactly short (though not long either) played wedge off the tee short of the water and another wedge to the green. Ridiculous.

 

Now these are just what sticks out in my mind and I haven't played it more than twice so,,,,,,,,

 

IMO, course ratings and slope are very indicative of toughness around Patts. KK is rated quite low, Greenwood and Pattavia fairly high.

 

Pattavia has a number of holes where the pins are in "illegal" locations. "

 

"An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade. In no case should holes be located in tricky places, or on sharp slopes where a ball can gather speed. A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole."

 

Every time I play Pattavia there are, at minimum, 3 or 4 holes that do not fit this requirement. But I DO love the course,,,,,,,,,

Yep i concur in fact most people do that Treasure Hill is a poor design, trees on fairways, few options off the tee. I doubt any courses are designed like that now.