STD Free Logo

[Edge]

.........................................................

One BM even described the concept as lame but I assure you the subject matter is anything but “lame”

...............................................

 

Much as I know you like playing word games, you know very well that there is a complete difference between my contention that your idea of an STD logo for GoGo bars is lame and switching that to mean that I said the subject matter is lame, which of course it is not. That's just cheating and you know it. Foul!

 

Ducking out of defending your idea against the many posts pointing out the complete impracticability and nonsense of it has to be taken as your capitulation - end of.

[andyaus]

Look, agogos in BKK and Pattaya - who are already paying big bribes to operate - are still getting shut down and very few agogos on Walking Street are even allowed to have nude girls anymore. How lame is that. Many are not even topless. Even on forums like this, agogo owners do not want people posting specifics about what goes on inside!

 

This is happening because of police and political pressure. A LOT of police and political pressure.

 

And you want these places to stop trying to keep a low profile, and post a big banner saying "STD TESTED" at their door and advertising this?

 

This is simply not how this business works.

 

Whether it is good for monger customers and providers is completely moot.

 

I don’t think that I said anything about a “Banner”. I would have thought an A4 size logo placed strategically inside the business establishment would be enough. It doesn’t have to be in your face either. The concept of a “Logo” is not a sign but as a support.

If I need to spell it out for those who can’t grasp this simple concept I will offer another example

 

Instead of a shield maybe a silhouette of a girl with a white cross would be appropriate.

 

This idea of keeping a low profile is humorous. Do you really think that there is any secret about what goes on in Gogo, beer bars or soapy massage centres? The neon signs, the girls on the door,the pole dancing and loud music might give it away. The Thai authorities know exactly what is happening and could close Pattaya tomorrow if they were given the directive.

 

We talk about “tea money” as though this is the reason places stay open. The fact is that the Thai Government allows the P4P industry to exist and is very mindful of the value to the economy. They may not actually like the image but they tolerate the industry as long as the negatives don’t become too much of a problem. IMO the three main issues that will cause major crackdowns are underage girls, rampant drug abuse and increased STD proliferation.

 

I just thought that being proactive in this area is better than being reactive.

 

You seem to align yourself with the head in the and brigade. Perhaps I need a logo for your posts too...

[Belthazar]

This idea of keeping a low profile is humorous. Do you really think that there is any secret about what goes on in Gogo, beer bars or soapy massage centres? The neon signs, the girls on the door,the pole dancing and loud music might give it away. The Thai authorities know exactly what is happening and could close Pattaya tomorrow if they were given the directive.

Of course they all know what is going on, BUT this is Asia and not Europe or America - they are promoting TH as family tourist destination - so, no chance to active support this activity of STD testing. Pattaya is only tiny piece of Thai P4P market.

[Edge]

.........................................

If I need to spell it out for those who can’t grasp this simple concept I will offer another example

 

Instead of a shield maybe a silhouette of a girl with a white cross would be appropriate.

...........................................

 

For all the reasons given by several posters, which you refuse to address, this just gets sillier......and lamer too.

 

.

[andyaus]

Much as I know you like playing word games, you know very well that there is a complete difference between my contention that your idea of an STD logo for GoGo bars is lame and switching that to mean that I said the subject matter is lame, which of course it is not. That's just cheating and you know it. Foul!

 

Ducking out of defending your idea against the many posts pointing out the complete impracticability and nonsense of it has to be taken as your capitulation - end of.

 

Actually, I resisted playing word games with the posts.

 

I didn’t take any of them personally and welcome ALL comments on the subject. I just put it out here and hope to get a little support but hardly thought the idea was LAME. of course the only alternative view was actually from you. Your idea is to test all the Mongers at the airport. I won’t be rude about that concept but.......

 

Just one point though...I never restricted my comments to Gogos as you have decided to claim. I think each beer bar, gogo, soapy and even massage centres should commit to STD testing. The Government has legislated for this in the past. A head in the sand attitude could see this occur again in the future. I just don’t see what is wrong with a voluntary code which at least addresses the problem (I don’t think it will wipe out STD’s in the P4P industry but it might create some awareness) If you want to accuse me of cheating then please play by the rules yourself. Make your comments, try to be constructive instead of destructive and play nice. I try to.

Edited February 23, 2012 by andyaus

[Edge]

Actually, I resisted playing word games with the posts.

.........................

 

You did not resist and that's what I'm crying foul over, as you very well know.

 

I accept that you did not specify GoGos in your OP, but only GoGos have been mentioned (apart from DD) and you yourself led us down that path :-

 

"I checked the Sapphire, Babydolls and Heaven Above sites......."

 

Indeed, to the best of my knowledge Beer Bars don't test at all and, given that many BMs are reporting more and more that they are switching to them, it is just one of the reasons why this suggestion is academic.

 

I really don't think you want, or could have, a reasoned debate about your idea or you would have responded to the points made.

If I've broken any rules feel free to tell me which ones?

 

To be constructive, why don;t you explore the AC model, where I believe each girl in their show bars is licenced. She even wears tags which appear to give details (including the 'V' symbol).

The bar seems to hold their ID and they must have regular 'hygiene' checks, which the girls pay for (I saw a hospital bus outside Blue Nile and the girls all queuing to get tested).

AC doesn't really have Beer Bars, so that anomaly remains......and I didn't notice any Logos either.

In the meantime, you are just barking at the moon......

[jojomecanic]

why do guys usualy bag-up ? I would say 90% because they are scared of STDs.

The 10% left is maybe because some girls are reluctant.

 

Knowing how girls can fail and say yes for "boom-boom no condom" with a bit more money (most of them), nothing would then refrain guys to bareback as they would not be scared anymore about STDs.

 

So guys would be mostly protected, but would spread their deseases and fly back home...

 

That would quickly turn into a huge pandemic in Pattaya!

 

An other thing. I can't see why girls with STD would not be allowed to work in the P4P scene. As we are supposed to bag-up, risk is almost zero. Knowing the girl you shag is STD free is only for your psychological comfort. It does not makes any difference (unless you expect some barebacking).

 

STDs are spread by guys that barebacks.So the girls should be protected. Not the mongers. What you are proposing protects the mongers and bans the HIV+girls. A bit unfair imo knowing the girl got the HIV from a monger that will still spread it all around and have fun when she is dying from aids in her village with only paracetamol to cure it...

Edited February 23, 2012 by jojomecanic

[Edge]

why do guys usualy bag-up ? I would say 90% because they are scared of STDs.

The 10% left is maybe because some girls are reluctant.

..............................................

STDs are spread by guys that barebacks.So the girls should be protected. Not the mongers. What you are proposing protects the mongers and bans the HIV+girls. A bit unfair imo knowing the girl got the HIV from a monger that will still spread it all around and have fun when she is dying from aids in her village with only paracetamol to cure it...

 

One reason I see why mongers are scared of STDs is that they might be fatal.......if they take them home to their TGF/Wife.

 

@ andyaus - of course my idea of mongers being tested was tongue-in-cheek and as impracticable as your Logo.

I was simply making the same point jojo makes so succinctly.

[andyaus]

.

.........The same goes for regulation from the government, as long as they can deny knowledge of it happening it can be allowed.

 

Cleaning up beach road is only cosmetics for the press/public opinion.

 

 

.........................

 

Thailands Ministry of health is definitely not denying the prevalence of P4P in thailand. They are getting pats on the back from all over the world for their efforts. It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that they are sitting back and denying the existence. They tolerate it because it suits them. Cleaning up the image with STD testing can only help with the tolerance.

 

This extract is from a working paper on the 100% condom program.

Even though prostitution had been illegal in Thailand for almost 30 years, even prior to the HIV epidemic the government had found it easier to regulate it than to stamp it out. Part of that regulation was the use of contact tracing whenever anyone came in to be tested for an STD. Thai men would almost always mention patronizing a commercial sex establishment (such as a brothel) in these conversations, and the STD control unit would send outreach workers to each brothel to try and convince the workers there to be tested and treated.

I think they know about the fact that we are having sex with girls in Pattaya

 

Cleaning up beach Road is a little more than cosmetic. They are knocking down beer bars and building hotels. You would have to be blind to miss the signs. Tourism is Pattaya is changing. I don’t think they want to get rid of the mongers but they do want to clean up the image. The Sleazy bars will be pushed further out and upmarket establishments will replace them.

 

why do guys usualy bag-up ? I would say 90% because they are scared of STDs.

The 10% left is maybe because some girls are reluctant.

 

Knowing how girls can fail and say yes for "boom-boom no condom" with a bit more money (most of them), nothing would then refrain guys to bareback as they would not be scared anymore about STDs.

 

So guys would be mostly protected, but would spread their deseases and fly back home...

 

That would quickly turn into a huge pandemic in Pattaya!

 

An other thing. I can't see why girls with STD would not be allowed to work in the P4P scene. As we are supposed to bag-up, risk is almost zero. Knowing the girl you shag is STD free is only for your psychological comfort. It does not makes any difference (unless you expect some barebacking).

 

STDs are spread by guys that barebacks.So the girls should be protected. Not the mongers. What you are proposing protects the mongers and bans the HIV+girls. A bit unfair imo knowing the girl got the HIV from a monger that will still spread it all around and have fun when she is dying from aids in her village with only paracetamol to cure it...

 

There are so many points that want to make based on this post.

We can disagree on the fact that girls will bareback just for extra baht. Some will some won’t. On one hand there is the suggestion that putting up a sign about STD’s will bring un due attention to the problem and at the same time you suggest it will make mongers complacent and encourage bare backing.

 

From the girls point of view, if they know that are getting tested they have added incentives not to catch anything and will resist bare backing. From the mongers point of view, being reminded of the dangers can only be good.

 

Now I will point out that I don’t bare back. I can also say that I have never had an STD and I get tested twice a year. (my doctor just adds this to other tests he does)... I am surprised at the level of ignorance on this issue.

 

The Centre for disease control and prevention has numerous fact sheets. This is an extract from one of these:

 

There are two primary ways that STDs are transmitted. Some diseases, such as HIV infection, gonorrhea, chlamydia, and trichomoniasis, are transmitted when infected urethral or vaginal secretions contact mucosal surfaces (such as the male urethra, the vagina, or cervix). In contrast, genital ulcer diseases (such as genital herpes, syphilis, and chancroid) and human papillomavirus (HPV) infection are primarily transmitted through contact with infected skin or mucosal surfaces.

 

Wearing condoms reduces the likely hood of infection but if you touch a pussy with infectious herpes or syphilis and then go for a piss you can catch herpes or syphilis and for the BM who suggested that it is the Yanks who are worried about Herpes...think again...So are Australians. Herpes is for ever and if you are in a relationship you will probably give it to your partner.

 

If a girl catches a disease then yes it is better for her to go home or find other employment. Definitely better than to keep working. What are you thinking about with that comment?

 

You did not resist and that's what I'm crying foul over, as you very well know.

 

I accept that you did not specify GoGos in your OP, but only GoGos have been mentioned (apart from DD) and you yourself led us down that path :-

 

"I checked the Sapphire, Babydolls and Heaven Above sites......."

 

Indeed, to the best of my knowledge Beer Bars don't test at all and, given that many BMs are reporting more and more that they are switching to them, it is just one of the reasons why this suggestion is academic.

 

I really don't think you want, or could have, a reasoned debate about your idea or you would have responded to the points made.

If I've broken any rules feel free to tell me which ones?

 

To be constructive, why don;t you explore the AC model, where I believe each girl in their show bars is licenced. She even wears tags which appear to give details (including the 'V' symbol).

The bar seems to hold their ID and they must have regular 'hygiene' checks, which the girls pay for (I saw a hospital bus outside Blue Nile and the girls all queuing to get tested).

AC doesn't really have Beer Bars, so that anomaly remains......and I didn't notice any Logos either.

In the meantime, you are just barking at the moon......

 

My OP was in relation to testing for the girls. I expect that beer bars would also test the girls. If they wait for legislation then the problems increase. The Thai government had compulsory testing in the past and could introduce it again. If I had a beer bar then I would test the girls.

Your reference to "Lame and Silly “ wasn’t directed at the logo idea but was a general and unnecessary comment about the whole post so pull your head in.

On the plus side your comments about AC are very good and take the testing idea to the next level where girls are licensed. I think this may be an invasion on their liberties but it just shows what can be achieved. My business partner is in AC at the moment and when I mentioned the subject of Bar Fines he laughed. His answer is to drink with the freelancers and invite them home with you. They all say yes and the going rate is about 1000 pesos. Bar fines are over 1500 pesos so the freelancers rule. I know there are a lack of beer bars but they have thousands of karaoke bars full of freelancers to make up for it. I will be in AC in the next 2 months so I will let you know more about this. (with Pictures)

 

In most countries where adult entertainment is legal this is a requirement. It is far from difficult and easy to monitor, providing you are using one of the internationally registered hospitals. There is therefore a somewhat substantial cost involved. The other benefit/problem depending upon your view, is that they will test but not hand over the results to someone who is under 18 years of age, someone below that age has to have their parents collect the results.

 

All tests are as at that time and HIV alone is not sufficient, you also need swab test at least twice a month. Having such tests does not decrease the reasons for the use of condoms but increases them and are as much for the girls safety as well as clients.

 

If you feel that the girls go through this on their own you should stop by on the first of the month and observe. It takes two to give blood, the one giving and the other one to hold her hand and give support

 

As can be seen from the results of this poll there is no real incentive for bar owners to add to their workload or over-heads by introducing such a system as the cost is substantial.

 

You are right, if the mongers don’t get behind it then there is no point....but you still get your girls tested and advertise the fact. You also charge more for the girls and from the number of positive posts you are successful at it. You have attractive girls but so do other places so I conclude that part of your success at getting more money for the same girls is that your girls are tested.

 

You point out that there is a cost but don’t estimate what that is. I assume this is a confidential business decision but I have seen tests advertised for around 300baht.

Edited February 23, 2012 by andyaus

[jojomecanic]

If a girl catches a disease then yes it is better for her to go home or find other employment. Definitely better than to keep working. What are you thinking about with that comment?

 

My answer to this comment was in my previous post (you can replace HIV with STD) :

A bit unfair imo knowing the girl got the HIV from a monger that will still spread it all around and have fun when she is dying from aids in her village with only paracetamol to cure it...

 

It is a 2 ways road. Completly useless to ban the victim and let the source keep spreading the disease.

Edited February 23, 2012 by jojomecanic

[andyaus]

My answer to this comment was in my previous post (you can replace HIV with STD) :

A bit unfair imo knowing the girl got the HIV from a monger that will still spread it all around and have fun when she is dying from aids in her village with only paracetamol to cure it...

 

It is a 2 ways road. Completly useless to ban the victim and let the source keep spreading the disease.

 

Ok, so we are agreed on the fact that she should stop work as P4P girl?

 

Now we can discuss the workers rights as a P4P worker. If you owned a business and the girls got sick at work then some compensation should be available. This might be as simple as putting the girls on other duties such as service girls or drinks girls until they get the all clear. For girls who are permanently restricted with HIV or something then I would suggest a fund to help them but if I can’t even get one of the owners to respond to a simple question about testing then I am unlikely to get a favourable response to this suggestion. This could be achieved with some unification of the bars but we are along way from there.

 

As for the other part of the question about the responsibilities of a monger then this is even more controversial. Before travelling to Australia to visit any schools (as a student or a teacher) we insist on getting a TB certificate. If a potentially dangerous disease was prevalent in your country of origin such as Rabies then our quarantine procedure would quickly kick in. When the SARS virus was floating around they installed machines to read your temperature as you walked through the airport. I think it is a personal invasion of privacy but don’t think t couldn’t happen that before entering Bangkok you were made to get a health certificate.

[Edge]

..............................

My OP was in relation to testing for the girls. I expect that beer bars would also test the girls.................

 

Your reference to "Lame and Silly “ wasn’t directed at the logo idea but was a general and unnecessary comment about the whole post so pull your head in.

...................With respect to the OP's usually clear(ish) thinking, I think this is one of his lamer ideas conjured up back in Cloud Farangland..............

 

On the plus side your comments about AC are very good and take the testing idea to the next level where girls are licensed. I think this may be an invasion on their liberties but it just shows what can be achieved.....................................

 

....but you still get your girls tested and advertise the fact. You also charge more for the girls and from the number of positive posts you are successful at it. You have attractive girls but so do other places so I conclude that part of your success at getting more money for the same girls is that your girls are tested.

You point out that there is a cost but don’t estimate what that is. I assume this is a confidential business decision but I have seen tests advertised for around 300baht.

 

Just saying that you would expect the Beer Bars would also test is too naive to comment on.

One would almost think you hadn't been here.

I'll ask again, does anyone know of a Beer Bar which enforces regular testing....for anything?

 

Does anyone know what the agency does?

 

With regard to my 'lamer idea' comment (inserted above) I think you're twisting words again.

If you can't read that as being directed specifically at your 'Logo' idea then I assure you it was that simple.

 

I don't expect Cerberus to get into a discussion about his business but.............

He apparently perceives the testing as a selling aid and, judging by many posts he is correct.

I'm sure, as jojo suggested, that does lead mongers to feel safer and I expect they would take more chances if Cerberus didn't do his best to make sure they use condoms.

You come back to the question of cost again and you conclude that DD gets more money for their girls due to them being tested.

Presumably you are returning to your idea that mongers would pay a higher BF if they knew girls were tested, as a way to persuade Bars to stand the cost of the testing.

Now I don't know whether the cost of the tests is deducted from the DD girls' salaries or not, but of all the GoGo girls I know who are tested, the girls pay. Those bars are certainly not going to start paying for it themseves and then increase the BFs, in a climate where many on this board are already avoiding exorbitant GoGo BFs.

 

We digress, but for AC, I'll bow to (almost) anyone's greater knowledge as I've only been there twice.

The only places I know of where FLs hang out are the disco's where I understand a lot of the SWhowgirls go after work.

There are of course lots of FLs littering the streets, but I pass on those thanks.

The rates of pay in the bars there are abysmal, but they still get stoppages for laundry, testing and of course fines for lateness etc.

From an 1800 Peso (1300 Baht) LT BF (ERW) the girl gets 800 Pesos (600 Baht) and hopes for a decent tip.

Clearly there are many many girls (they are not exactly all stunners there) who do not get BFs, for whom it's a pretty miserable deal, so I don't doubt for a moment that your business partner can 'pick them off' for 1000 Pesos later.

Here's an example of a week's pay for one of the more popular girls.

Looks like about 47 (max 68) Baht a day to me, so if she wasn't popular I'm sure she'd think 1000 Pesos outside was a good idea.

 

[jojomecanic]

Ok, so we are agreed on the fact that she should stop work as P4P girl?

No, we do not agree. As I said many times in my previous post, I don't care if the girl is HIV+ or whatever.

If you act correctly in a P4P scene, there is no bigger risk to get any disease.

Does your co-workers wash their hands after toilets and before shaking yours ? Then, if you go for a pee without washing yours before touching your dick, you're also the only one guilty to get a bug...

 

 

As for the other part of the question about the responsibilities of a monger then this is even more controversial. Before travelling to Australia to visit any schools (as a student or a teacher) we insist on getting a TB certificate. If a potentially dangerous disease was prevalent in your country of origin such as Rabies then our quarantine procedure would quickly kick in. When the SARS virus was floating around they installed machines to read your temperature as you walked through the airport. I think it is a personal invasion of privacy but don’t think t couldn’t happen that before entering Bangkok you were made to get a health certificate.

Let's mix that with you seat belt exemple at the begining of this thread...

It is an evidence that authorities don't want to reduce the death on the road. They just want people to think they are doing something. There is a huge difference.

To reduce the death on road, thy just need to prohibit all importation of cars going faster than 70km/h. That's all. This would have a dratic effect. But would be impopular...

 

So it is the same for health matter. If Thai authorities wants to do something, they will ask for a health check on arrival. That's all.

It makes me smile that you consider it as a personal invasion of privacy, but would like to do health checks ont he girls...

[andyaus]

No, we do not agree. As I said many times in my previous post, I don't care if the girl is HIV+ or whatever.

If you act correctly in a P4P scene, there is no bigger risk to get any disease.

Does your co-workers wash their hands after toilets and before shaking yours ? Then, if you go for a pee without washing yours before touching your dick, you're also the only one guilty to get a bug...

 

 

 

Let's mix that with you seat belt exemple at the begining of this thread...

It is an evidence that authorities don't want to reduce the death on the road. They just want people to think they are doing something. There is a huge difference.

To reduce the death on road, thy just need to prohibit all importation of cars going faster than 70km/h. That's all. This would have a dratic effect. But would be impopular...

 

So it is the same for health matter. If Thai authorities wants to do something, they will ask for a health check on arrival. That's all.

It makes me smile that you consider it as a personal invasion of privacy, but would like to do health checks ont he girls...

 

OK then we will never agree on the subject of a girl who is HIV positive working in P4P. I believe it is illegal in many countries around the world and it would never be tolerated if the authorities knew.

 

Good luck thinking that you are somehow immune to catching an STD because you bag up. You are LESS likely to catch something but it still happens. Don’t believe me but think about it anyway.

 

By the way, there is proof that seat belts have saved lives. The introduction of compulsory seat belts cost the government votes so I’m not sure of the motives that you are suggesting.

 

As for the health checks, ALL of us should get checked each year for our own peace of mind.

[Edge]

..............................

By the way, there is proof that seat belts have saved lives. The introduction of compulsory seat belts cost the government votes so I’m not sure of the motives that you are suggesting.

 

As for the health checks, ALL of us should get checked each year for our own peace of mind.

 

Aussie roooooooouls huh ?

 

I recall when Volvo ran some ad's showing that their Side Impact Protection system could save their driver when he pulled out and got T-boned by a motor cyclist.

A UK motorcycle group ran a spoof campaign suggesting that all Volvos should have the driver's seat belt removed and a big sharp spike fitted to the steering wheel in place of the airbag.

 

Maybe Australia can come up with a body sized condom to cocoon ourselves in.......but not with the sheep's intestines this time eh?

[andyaus]

Just saying that you would expect the Beer Bars would also test is too naive to comment on.

One would almost think you hadn't been here.

I'll ask again, does anyone know of a Beer Bar which enforces regular testing....for anything?

 

Does anyone know what the agency does?

 

With regard to my 'lamer idea' comment (inserted above) I think you're twisting words again.

If you can't read that as being directed specifically at your 'Logo' idea then I assure you it was that simple.

 

I don't expect Cerberus to get into a discussion about his business but.............

He apparently perceives the testing as a selling aid and, judging by many posts he is correct.

I'm sure, as jojo suggested, that does lead mongers to feel safer and I expect they would take more chances if Cerberus didn't do his best to make sure they use condoms.

You come back to the question of cost again and you conclude that DD gets more money for their girls due to them being tested.

Presumably you are returning to your idea that mongers would pay a higher BF if they knew girls were tested, as a way to persuade Bars to stand the cost of the testing.

Now I don't know whether the cost of the tests is deducted from the DD girls' salaries or not, but of all the GoGo girls I know who are tested, the girls pay. Those bars are certainly not going to start paying for it themseves and then increase the BFs, in a climate where many on this board are already avoiding exorbitant GoGo BFs.

 

We digress, but for AC, I'll bow to (almost) anyone's greater knowledge as I've only been there twice.

The only places I know of where FLs hang out are the disco's where I understand a lot of the showgirls go after work.

There are of course lots of FLs littering the streets, but I pass on those thanks.

The rates of pay in the bars there are abysmal, but they still get stoppages for laundry, testing and of course fines for lateness etc.

From an 1800 Peso (1300 Baht) LT BF (ERW) the girl gets 800 Pesos (600 Baht) and hopes for a decent tip.

Clearly there are many many girls (they are not exactly all stunners there) who do not get BFs, for whom it's a pretty miserable deal, so I don't doubt for a moment that your business partner can 'pick them off' for 1000 Pesos later.

Here's an example of a week's pay for one of the more popular girls.

Looks like about 47 (max 68) Baht a day to me, so if she wasn't popular I'm sure she'd think 1000 Pesos outside was a good idea.

 

 

Thee was a time when restaurants would cook your food in dirty kitchens and rarely did the chef wash his hands. The idea of starting with a clean kitchen, having a hand washing sink in the kitchen, clean utensils, hair nets and refrigeration were all crazy concepts. Then someone had an idea. Now we would object if these conditions don’t exist. I have even noticed some of the street food vendors with their BBQ strips kept in a closed compartment and once with ice in it as well. All it takes is an idea.

[andyaus]

Aussie roooooooouls huh ?

 

I recall when Volvo ran some ad's showing that their Side Impact Protection system could save their driver when he pulled out and got T-boned by a motor cyclist.

A UK motorcycle group ran a spoof campaign suggesting that all Volvos should have the driver's seat belt removed and a big sharp spike fitted to the steering wheel in place of the airbag.

 

Maybe Australia can come up with a body sized condom to cocoon ourselves in.......but not with the sheep's intestines this time eh?

 

Arghhhh your reverting to sheep jokes.. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

I have found a few examples of suitable attire

 

I think I saw a few guys wearing this at Songkram last year...not a bad idea

 

Of course the official version looked like this

 

 

And for JoJo if you wear this the whole time and stay away from giving oral sex then you might be as safe as you think you are.

 

Trouble is they don’t make a XXXL version

[Edge]

Thee was a time when restaurants would cook your food in dirty kitchens and rarely did the chef wash his hands. The idea of starting with a clean kitchen, having a hand washing sink in the kitchen, clean utensils, hair nets and refrigeration were all crazy concepts. Then someone had an idea. Now we would object if these conditions don’t exist. I have even noticed some of the street food vendors with their BBQ strips kept in a closed compartment and once with ice in it as well. All it takes is an idea.

 

OK, I give up.........................

[jojomecanic]

OK then we will never agree on the subject of a girl who is HIV positive working in P4P. I believe it is illegal in many countries around the world and it would never be tolerated if the authorities knew.

Please, name me the countries you're refering.

By the way, I never said that I feel imune from STD with a condom. this is your interpretation.

 

Thee was a time when restaurants would cook your food in dirty kitchens and rarely did the chef wash his hands.

Yes, that brought us to thousands tons of food wasted every day when other are starving in third world, just because a stupid date is written on the box, people becoming more and more sick because their body is not used to eat just normal food. Everything has to be clean, sterilised with no taste anymore... I don't think all those regulations are very intelligent. Just let's see where it will bring humanity in a few decades. Oh, we might be dead then, so not our problem?

 

Laws, rules, more laws, more rules to protect people againt themselves...

 

For conclusion, if people don't put their seat belt and die on the road, I don't get where the problem is. Their life, their problem.

If you don't want the STD risk, do what is necessary according to your fear level. But don't slowly introduce regulations systems that will bother others.

[jojomecanic]

And for JoJo if you wear this the whole time and stay away from giving oral sex then you might be as safe as you think you are.

Who said I think I'm safe ?

By the way, I never give oral sex. It smells dead fish and is just good enough to catch herpes. They are prostitutes, mate, not home GF...

[andyaus]

Please, name me the countries you're refering.

By the way, I never said that I feel imune from STD with a condom. this is your interpretation.

 

 

Yes, that brought us to thousands tons of food wasted every day when other are starving in third world, just because a stupid date is written on the box, people becoming more and more sick because their body is not used to eat just normal food. Everything has to be clean, sterilised with no taste anymore... I don't think all those regulations are very intelligent. Just let's see where it will bring humanity in a few decades. Oh, we might be dead then, so not our problem?

 

Laws, rules, more laws, more rules to protect people againt themselves...

 

For conclusion, if people don't put their seat belt and die on the road, I don't get where the problem is. Their life, their problem.

If you don't want the STD risk, do what is necessary according to your fear level. But don't slowly introduce regulations systems that will bother others.

 

I can give you a list of the countries like UK , Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand , Canada and Australia but the criminality comes in different sections of Law. In New Zealand it comes within the Prostitution Reform Act 2003 but in Australia it comes from the Public Health Act 1997. This act states He/she has a responsibility under the ACT Public Health Act 1997 to take reasonable measures to ensure that others are not unknowingly placed at risk of infection. A person whose action not only puts others at risk but also constitutes a criminal offence. The law is pretty clear on prostitution but there are issues when for example a gay man has unprotected sex, knowing that he was HIV positive. It might not be a criminal offence if both parties are aware of the HIV status, acceptable precautions are in place and informed consent exists. What do you think you would do if a girl agreed to have sex with you but just before hand tells you she is HIV positive?

[jojomecanic]

This act states He/she has a responsibility under the ACT Public Health Act 1997 to take reasonable measures to ensure that others are not unknowingly placed at risk of infection. A person whose action not only puts others at risk but also constitutes a criminal offence.

 

Yes, that's what I thought. You didn't manage to name a single country where it is stated that having an STD and working in the P4P scene is an offence.

Putting a condom on would be considered as "taking reasonable measures".

You're trying to mix it with gay people having sex without condom.It is completly different.

 

To answer your last question, I already had sex with girls with HIV, with Herpes, and probably other things that we cannot see. I think I'm a lot cleaner and sfer than many other board members that go down on girls, or touch their pussy and go for a pee after... see what I mean ?

 

I understand that you can feel more secure with a girl that has done a test. Just barfine her early, go to a clinic and do the test yourself. Make your own rules and don't oblige other to follow them.

[andyaus]

Yes, that's what I thought. You didn't manage to name a single country where it is stated that having an STD and working in the P4P scene is an offence.

Putting a condom on would be considered as "taking reasonable measures".

You're trying to mix it with gay people having sex without condom.It is completly different.

 

To answer your last question, I already had sex with girls with HIV, with Herpes, and probably other things that we cannot see. I think I'm a lot cleaner and sfer than many other board members that go down on girls, or touch their pussy and go for a pee after... see what I mean ?

 

I understand that you can feel more secure with a girl that has done a test. Just barfine her early, go to a clinic and do the test yourself. Make your own rules and don't oblige other to follow them.

 

You broke the cardinal rule of deleting most of my quote without indicating that you did this. I mentioned 7 countries where I believe it would be a criminal offence for a HIV positive person to subject people to risk of infection. You are dead wrong with you assessment that wearing a condom eliminates the risk and your comments are very dangerous. Your complete ignorance of this fact is disturbing.

 

Wearing a condom reduces the risk, it doesn’t eliminate it. If a sex worker in any of these countries was HIV positive then they would be charged and the use of a condom would never be justification. It is stupid to suggest that a sex worker would openly admit to being HIV positive and even crazier to expect the customer to agree to pay for sex in these circumstances.

 

Feel free to take risks with your life but please don’t encourage anyone else to be so foolish.

[jojomecanic]

You broke the cardinal rule of deleting most of my quote without indicating that you did this. I mentioned 7 countries where I believe it would be a criminal offence for a HIV positive person to subject people to risk of infection. You are dead wrong with you assessment that wearing a condom eliminates the risk and your comments are very dangerous. Your complete ignorance of this fact is disturbing.

 

Wearing a condom reduces the risk, it doesn’t eliminate it. If a sex worker in any of these countries was HIV positive then they would be charged and the use of a condom would never be justification. It is stupid to suggest that a sex worker would openly admit to being HIV positive and even crazier to expect the customer to agree to pay for sex in these circumstances.

 

Feel free to take risks with your life but please don’t encourage anyone else to be so foolish.

I didn't break any cardinal rules (omg, rules again...) as your post was just above mine.

 

I've heard few stories around the word that some people were prosecuted for having unprotected sex and transmitting hiv. But I've never ever heard about someone HIV+ prosecuted because he/she had sex with someone with a condom. I would be happy to be linked to any source about this.

Quoting your whole post or not doesn't change the fact that you read the laws the way it serves you, but your interpretation is wrong on the one you mentionned. Please come with better facts. This one is saying "take reasonable mesures", not eliminate! As long as I know, medical consider condom as the safest mesure. Isn't the safest reasonable?

 

There are thousands (hundreds of thousands) couple with one of them HIV+, the other knowing and having sex with condom. So don't call foolish to have sex with a HIV+ with a condom. As you're talking about quoting posts, can you please quote mine where I said that a condom eliminate the risk...

 

As you are stating my ignorance, please teach me how the HIV is coming through the condom if it doesn't break and if it is put on before any contact. I would be glad to learn that and read some stories about people getting aids trhough condoms.

 

To finish this discussion, I will just refer to your last sentence : thanks for agreeing, after 48 posts on the thread, that I can be free to risk with my life owever I want. And I never encouraged others to be foolish. Once again, it is your own interpretation, and it seems that you like making come out what you need from others sayings...

Edited February 23, 2012 by jojomecanic

[Edge]

......................................

As you are stating my ignorance, please teach me how the HIV is coming through the condom if it doesn't break and if it is put on before any contact. I would be glad to learn that and read some stories about people getting aids trhough condoms.

...........................

 

Maybe he's thinking of those Trojan NaturaLamb ones (yes, they still use sheep intestines) baaaaa.

 

Sorry, knuckles rapped - serious subject, but the only thing I'm sure of in this thread is this. ...andyaus vid.mp4

 

 

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