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STD Free Logo


andyaus
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I have had a search on the forum and found many references to threads on this topic but none that actually cover this idea

.

I am surprised that this has not already been implemented.

 

The concept involves an STD Testing Logo whereby each business that offers “girls” with “bar fines” undertakes to have ALL girls tested each month for STD’s.

 

Now I understand there is a cost but I am led to believe that the cost might be as low as 300 baht per girl per month. If an establishment offered girls with an STD Tested logo then they could ask for a testing levy or just add the cost to a bar fine.

 

(This is just an example)th_logo.jpg

 

I am sure that I would happily pay the extra 100 baht bar fine if I knew the girls were tested regularly. Devils Den has been trading on this fact for years and it seems successfully so.

 

 

The Thai government has received accolades from all over the world with their 100% Condom Program where they stopped an epidemic of HIV infection in 5 years by increasing the use of condoms from 15% to 90%. . Although HIV infection is still a problem most new cases are occurring amongst married women. See article by Elizabeth Bosky PhD (http://std.about.com...ai100condom.htm) I’m sure they would encourage this type of action.

 

 

Now we have several owners of very successful bars in this forum and I believe if they all got together and decided to implement a monthly testing regime then a few things would happen.

  • They would get more patronage..
  • Other bars would follow suit
  • The Authorities would look favourably on establishments with a responsible attitude.

I am not advocating bare backing girls from these places. If a girl has been certified STD free they are likely to insist on Condoms so they can keep their status.

 

It is not just about HIV. We could take home a variety of different diseases. Some of these won’t matter if you bag up or not. Finding your ate in a place that advertises STD testing will reduce the odds.

 

I know it is not as easy as I suggest and there are the sceptics regarding the tests, certificates etc but you have to start somewhere and if someone is cheating I’m sure the girls will talk and soon everyone will know.

So how about it bar owners? Are you ready to be responsible and ready to advertise the fact. (I know some bars already do this but it is hard to find them).

 

Oh …and to stop the girls cheating , if they do catch something then you probably should keep paying them as service girls during treatment. You will get better girls and keep them.

Edited by andyaus

There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts.

 

Voltaire

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Many (most?) Gogo's already do this, some bars also. Some do test for all possible STD's, some only for HIV. Checking intervals may vary.

 

Advertising would need to be done with "STD Tested" and never with "STD Free" as nobody can guarantee that.

 

Advertising it would also be like advertising prostitution and that is illegal in Thailand. ;)

Edited by eXplosief
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Great idea. But they will have to get tested at a legit clinic also. One that can't be bought for good papers.

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Many (most?) Gogo's already do this, some bars also. Some do test for all possible STD's, some only for HIV. Checking intervals may vary.

 

Advertising would need to be done with "STD Tested" and never with "STD Free" as nobody can guarantee that.

 

Advertising it would also be like advertising prostitution and that is illegal in Thailand. ;)

 

I checked the Sapphire, Babydolls and Heaven Above sites but none of them advertised that their girls get any sort of health check. I understand that prostitution is illegal in Thailand but I doubt that advertising a responsible attitude to sex would have the authorities in your face. The activities are not exactly hidden.

 

It wouldn’t matter what the logo said as long as it indicated regular testing.......

 

One of the most used slurs about men going to Thailand is the constant reference to catching an STD. Its like people expect this happens to most guys visiting Pattaya. I tell everyone that the girls are tested but I don’t believe it. The fact that I have only ever seen the claim in DD would suggest that it doesn’t happen.

There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts.

 

Voltaire

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Many (most?) Gogo's already do this, some bars also. Some do test for all possible STD's, some only for HIV. Checking intervals may vary.

 

 

After 4 years in Pattaya and knowing many people in the industry I can't name 10 gogos that insist on regular testing for the girls and I know of ZERO bars either. Although I don't doubt if you actually asked a Thai in charge of either they would tell you what you wanted to hear.

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I think too many bars would just take the extra 100 Baht and fake the testing. I do believe DD legitimately tests, but if the practice became widespread there'd be a lot of phonies out there. I would definitely pay more if it could be done without corruption.

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Testing is nice idea but nonsense also - I just can not imagine to get every girl tested - Hep B,C , HIV, HPV, HSV -1, HSV - 2, Gono, Syphilis - with so many sexual partners - on monday valid, but on tuesday no valid at all :)

 

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I think its a good idea in theory....but unworkable logistically.

 

For example - Dont bother checking the Saphire website....how the fuck would they know whether the random agency girls that make up a fair percentage of the dancers are STD free...

 

Same same numerous other places that have FLs that are not on salary.......

 

Also - thinking about a roster of Babydolls for example, that has had on occasion 100 girls working.....how can they possibly get them tested effectively......and a new girl turns up for a trial or starts work.....what then?

 

Its hard enough to get girls to fill some bars anyway...so they need to grab them when they can......DOZENS OF BARS are looking for girls to start, like yesterday.....including for example...(Last I heard) - Spankys, Paradise, Carosel etc etc etc)

 

It would have to be policed, by a nuetral body......, and NO girls could work unless they were tested every month or whatever.....and then you would just have another buerocratic shambles.....

 

EDIT: I forgot to put IMHO !

 

By the way......No......It wouldn't make the slightest difference as to which gogos I choose to patronise

Edited by Kangarooted
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I know a girl who works at Babydolls. I KNOW she goes to a clinic in Naklua every month for a test for STDs. She has to go to the clinic specified by the GOGO. Don't know what they test for and don't know how soon a new girl gets tested.

Big John

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Sorry mate never in a Million Years going to work as plenty of Baht the odd mistake and deliberate act by us Mongers make it never fool proof

 

I reckon a Hand Shandy the only safe Sex Act and that is providing they have washed their hands and wear a Marigold 55555

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In most countries where adult entertainment is legal this is a requirement. It is far from difficult and easy to monitor, providing you are using one of the internationally registered hospitals. There is therefore a somewhat substantial cost involved. The other benefit/problem depending upon your view, is that they will test but not hand over the results to someone who is under 18 years of age, someone below that age has to have their parents collect the results.

 

All tests are as at that time and HIV alone is not sufficient, you also need swab test at least twice a month. Having such tests does not decrease the reasons for the use of condoms but increases them and are as much for the girls safety as well as clients.

 

If you feel that the girls go through this on their own you should stop by on the first of the month and observe. It takes two to give blood, the one giving and the other one to hold her hand and give support :D

 

As can be seen from the results of this poll there is no real incentive for bar owners to add to their workload or over-heads by introducing such a system as the cost is substantial.

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.............................................

It wouldn’t matter what the logo said as long as it indicated regular testing.......

 

One of the most used slurs about men going to Thailand is the constant reference to catching an STD. Its like people expect this happens to most guys visiting Pattaya. I tell everyone that the girls are tested but I don’t believe it. .....................

 

Putting aside how meaningful testing is, I know lots of GoGos which already insist on monthly testing, but they make the girl pay for it, so there's no add-on charge required to BFs.

They could use a little logo in their advertising I suppose, but maybe they think that would just make the idea of catching something higher profile.

I don't know of any beer bars which do it (?) so all those on here who are deserting GoGos in favour of cheaper BB girls apparently don't give a FF about testing.

 

What might be a more useful idea would be for all mongers to be tested at BKK before they're allowed in.

These STDs come from somewhere, The girls don't catch them without someone giving them to them. :Think1:

 

I think its a good idea in theory....but unworkable logistically.

 

For example - Dont bother checking the Saphire website....how the fuck would they know whether the random agency girls that make up a fair percentage of the dancers are STD free...

.............................................

 

Apart from the idea that you have a humble opinion, I agree with all that. :hello09:

 

For another example - In a recent routine monthly GoGo check, 5 girls were suspended or terminated, 2 of them for getting a positive preg' check (no, I didn't know they did those either). I know at least 3 of them simply moved to other bars or GoGos and never missed a night's work.

 

As you say, many/most GoGos start girls straight off the street and they don't get tested until the next time it's routinely due there. As most seem to go for the first of the month I'm sure you can work out how that can go.

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I can't understand why mongers are bothered with HIV. Whatever you'll do, where ever you will fuck, you'll come across without knowing.

Just learn how to use correctly a condom and always bag-up. It's the only thing to worry about.

 

It's a lot more dangerous to cross second road in Pattaya. Will you ask the mayor to stop all traffic on this road?

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In most countries where adult entertainment is legal this is a requirement.

 

Yes, but fact is that 'adult entertainment' in Thailand is very much illegal. Each and every place operating a place of prostitution is paying off the local cops. The more brazen then are, the more in your face, the more they have to pay.

 

Their strategy is to stay under the radar, and not advertise that anything aside from dancing is going on. This is why there are certain periods of time that girls have to put on panties and tops in agogos and when things quiet down, they can take them off. Big STD advertisements just draw too much unnecessary attention.

Edited by dc_publius
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I am surprised at the amount of apathy regarding STD’s.

 

I expected the negative comments to come from anti-change brigade and to a large extent I actually agree with most of their reasons. At one point in Australia they decided to legislate for wearing seat belts. Now the whole population was up in arms against this invasion on our personal space but the legislation was past. At the present time the road toll is 33% lower since the seat belt introduction and there are twice the number of cars and accidents. Clearly it has been a successful if not popular campaign.

 

I could write a list why testing doesn’t work

  • The cost of testing
  • Reluctance of the Bar Girls
  • Validity of the tests
  • Corruption in testing
  • Tests are only as good as the next customer
  • The Freelance element

The point is that things need to start somewhere. Even a bad system would be better than no system. The ida that a sign indication that the girls working in the bar are tested for STD regularly is hardly going to draw more attention than a bigger sign saying how much the bar fine is. Telling me again for the umpteenth time that prostitution in Thailand is illegal is pointless. It is illegal but tolerated. Rampant STD infection is likely to put more pressure on this tolerance than any proactive attempt to promote STD testing

 

If you look at the threads where the Authorities are planning to "clean up beach road” and spend millions of Baht doing it then it is obvious that they are wanting to make changes. The lack of STD testing must be on the agenda.

 

Apart from Devils Den, I still haven’t seen any establishments come out and say “we test our girls”. Is this because they don’t test or if they do they don’t tell about the results?

 

I’m happy either way. I don’t bareback. But I would rather have a girl who I knew was clean recently than one who had never been tested. I’m surprised you guys don’t feel the same way.

 

Oh and as for walking across the road in Pattaya...It is dangerous but I look both ways to reduce the risk and no I don’t need to stop the traffic but a few crosswalks might be nice

There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts.

 

Voltaire

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Telling me again for the umpteenth time that prostitution in Thailand is illegal is pointless. It is illegal but tolerated. Rampant STD infection is likely to put more pressure on this tolerance than any proactive attempt to promote STD testing

That is Western approach to this problem, in Asia it is not the same :)

Once again - I never know for what STD the girls should be tested.

Americans are most concerned about herpes (many threads here), so - You want them to be tested for this also, even if You know that HSV in not real STD in many countries :)

 

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I fully diseagree with your post.

 

If some guys feel secured knowing the girl has been tested recently it is ok for me. Up to you. But the way you introduce this shows that you would be happy if it was on the authorities agenda. That means a system where girls without their HIV test woudl be procecuted. Please, let all the stupid laws that brought our countries where they are now to our countries. Don't try to export the regulation system.

 

Apart from Devils Den, I still haven’t seen any establishments come out and say “we test our girls”. Is this because they don’t test or if they do they don’t tell about the results?

I've seen advertise saying "All our girls are regularly STD tested" in New linving doll, Peppermint, Sisters (now cavern), and other places I can't remember (in some bars around)

 

But I would rather have a girl who I knew was clean recently than one who had never been tested. I’m surprised you guys don’t feel the same way.

No, I really don't feel the same way. I am a responsible person not waiting after others to protect myself. I've learnt how to put a condom, how not to break it, I don't get drunk to always keep control.

People should just learn to do things by themselves instead of waiting for others to take care of them.

 

If you feel more secure with a tested girl, then bring her to the clinic by yourself. You may be surprised that I've already done that.

When you need something, do it by yourself. Don't wait after others to do it for you with laws or whatever.

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I am surprised at the amount of apathy regarding STD’s.

 

I expected the negative comments to come from anti-change brigade ..........................

 

I could write a list why testing doesn’t work.....................

 

.........................., I still haven’t seen any establishments come out and say “we test our girls”. Is this because they don’t test or if they do they don’t tell about the results?.....................

 

There are lots of things you could legislate for in Pattaya.

Personally I think they should ban smoking in bars.............oh, they already did that right? :Think1:

 

Why are you picking on GoGos at a time when more and more BMs are switching to Beer Bars or FLs which, AFAIK don't test at all.

Many GoGos do test at no cost to themselves as the girls have to pay.

 

It's very naive to think that a reason to not advertise that they test is that they don't want to tell us their results. Of course they don't.

I don't know, but as you follow DD so closely, do they tell you about their results. I know they have a policy for dealing with positive tests and presumably they get some, but I certainly wouldn't expect them to publish them. That's crazy logic.

 

.........................

I've seen advertise saying "All our girls are regularly STD tested" in New linving doll, Peppermint, Sisters (now cavern), and other places I can't remember (in some bars around)

......................

 

I imagine all it really does is to encourage customers to think there's less risk so they don't need to take so many precautions.

I would assume that the GoGos rationale is to weed out problems so that their bar doesn't get a bad reputation, but customers would be stupid to assume that it means they are significantly safer at those bars. From experience, it does make the girls more careful, but many of them have outside activities, often including a Thai guy who will probably not be using condoms etc etc.

 

As you've started a list including the Happy group GoGos Peppermint and Cavern, I would assume they do the same at Happy, Baccara and Beach Club?

For what it's worth I'll add Mistys, Heaven Above and (I believe) Champion.

Babydolls has also been mentioned.

 

With the many caveats about what it means, for the interest of those who think it's important, perhaps we could make a list of those GoGos which test.

Perhaps more to the point, does anyone know a GoGo which doesn't test and couldn't care less, but to my knowledge, even some of those mentioned take girls on straight off the street who may or may not be carrying their last test results.

 

With respect to the OP's usually clear(ish) thinking, I think this is one of his lamer ideas conjured up back in Cloud Farangland.

It's totally impracticable and it's for the business and the customer to take care of themselves.

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What's to stop businesses who don't test from displaying the logo?

 

As soon as something like this started up you would have everyone displaying the logo regardless of if the carry out testing or not and even if it got to the level where it was enforceable by law you would simply have bars paying off the police to avoid any level of prosecution.

 

Its a nice idea but not really practical for the intended market.

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The point is that things need to start somewhere. Even a bad system would be better than no system. The ida that a sign indication that the girls working in the bar are tested for STD regularly is hardly going to draw more attention than a bigger sign saying how much the bar fine is. Telling me again for the umpteenth time that prostitution in Thailand is illegal is pointless. It is illegal but tolerated. Rampant STD infection is likely to put more pressure on this tolerance than any proactive attempt to promote STD testing

Don't get me wrong, i am in favor of regular testing, but i don't see advertising it as something that will be widespread. You compare it to advertising the barfine, there is a big difference i think. A barfine is only to allow you to let a lady(boy) escort you outside of the bar, what you do outside is something done in private. It could be only dinner, a movie or indeed sex, but that is something the bar is unaware of (so they can pretend). If you advertise STD testing you make the connection from the bar to sexual activities and doing so in public draws unwanted attention.

 

The same goes for regulation from the government, as long as they can deny knowledge of it happening it can be allowed.

 

If you look at the threads where the Authorities are planning to "clean up beach road” and spend millions of Baht doing it then it is obvious that they are wanting to make changes. The lack of STD testing must be on the agenda.

Cleaning up beach road is only cosmetics for the press/public opinion.

 

 

Apart from Devils Den, I still haven’t seen any establishments come out and say “we test our girls”. Is this because they don’t test or if they do they don’t tell about the results?

..or because they simply don't want to advertise the fact.

 

There is 1 thing, besides taking the girl for a test yourself, you can do. Ask the girl for her test result book. Each girl (that gets tested regular) has a book from the doctor with the dates, the tests performed and the results.

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I don't know, but as you follow DD so closely, do they tell you about their results.

 

Yes they do. Well, the negative test. Folow the link for exemple.

 

Q. What about health issues?

A. All the ladies have medical records and are tested monthly for HIV and tested weekly for STDs. A scanned copy of these records are shown on this website while the hard-copies are available for inspection with your appointment.

 

 

 

As you've started a list including the Happy group GoGos Peppermint and Cavern, I would assume they do the same at Happy, Baccara and Beach Club?

For what it's worth I'll add Mistys, Heaven Above and (I believe) Champion.

BabyDolls has also been mentioned.

 

I've seen these advertises usualy near the toilets. As I didn't pee in all gogos, I can't tell :-)

And as I've already said on other posts, I've known a girl for a while working in these gogo, and she had to give the test to the mamasan, but as she didn't want to bother spending 15 minutes in a clinic, she was just buying it!

If she forgot to bring a test result, she was just cut of 1,000b of her monthly income. TIT

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Yes they do. Well, the negative test. Folow the link for exemple.

 

Q. What about health issues?

A. All the ladies have medical records and are tested monthly for HIV and tested weekly for STDs. A scanned copy of these records are shown on this website while the hard-copies are available for inspection with your appointment.

......................................

 

It certainly wasn't my intention to turn this into (yet) another DD thread, albeit the OP is using it as his main example of a business which tests.

 

I've seen the example before, but what I meant was that I wouldn't expect them, or any such business to routinely publish all their monthly results, including any positives.

I haven't looked at the site, but I assume that what they'd show you would be a current clean bill of health for a girl being offered as available.

I assume, on the other hand, that a girl who tested positive would disappear from the website until/unless the problem was resolved.

 

Maybe I misunderstood, but I took the OP's point about publishing results to mean just that - the results of the tests and not just the results of those who passed the tests.

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I want to thank you for your replies and although tempted, I won’t pick apart the various comments because I believe in most of them.

 

Unfortunately, I have read very little that offers anything but negative comments in what was an attempt to address STD risks in Thailand. A few proactive comments might have been nice.

 

One BM even described the concept as lame but I assure you the subject matter is anything but “lame”

 

Look at some history of STD in Thailand.

 

Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) have afflicted Thais since premodern times. Medical descriptions of STDs in the 1800s addressed the link between prostitution and STDs. During 1910-1925, STD rates in Bangkok were estimated to be 75-80% of adult males.

 

.In 1908, Thailand enacted a law which required all female prostitutes to undergo a regular medical examination to become registered. It also set up brothels. Policymakers wanted to prevent STD transmission from prostitutes to men. They did not address male clients' responsibility. They were not concerned with the women

 

Beginning in 1930, Bank Rak Hospital housed the Control Unit to Reduce Venereal Diseases. The 1908 law was still in force during 1930-1949 despite attempts to ban sex work.

 

In 1952, the UN provided Thailand assistance for STD education for students. During 1950-1965, businessmen and government officials profited from prostitution.

In 1960, Thailand passed a law banning prostitution. In the late 1960s and early to mid 1970s, US military personnel in Thailand sought prostitutes, resulting in expansion of illegal prostitution. At the same time, Thailand was promoting itself as a tourist destination. One high-profile deputy premier, banker, and businessman asked provincial governors to promote sex tourism.

In the mid 1980s, STDs spread rapidly in Thailand. The first AIDS case was in 1984. In one year, the HIV infection rate among prostitutes in Chiang Rai Province jumped from 1 to 37%.

 

The official response to the AIDS epidemic was first denial, then active monitoring and public education, and now increased community support for sufferers and multisectoral development programs.

 

As you can see the concept of regular testing is not a new idea but has been in force for over 100 years. The control of STDs is the responsibility of the Department of Communicable Diseases Control through the Venereal Diseases (VD) Division and has been the focus of a national program for more than 25 years. The VD Division provides STD services and facilities through 12 regional centers and 8 clinics in Bangkok.

 

I may live in “Cloud Farangland” but up here we have a good view. If STD infection gets out of control then they will do something and regulation is the tool of the Bureaucrats. Thailand has gone from having the worst record for HIV infection to getting the spread of HIV under control within 10 years. The best result in the world. Where do you think these people will concentrate their future efforts?

 

The good news is that they are dredging to get more sand for the Pattaya beach so you can put your heads somewhere if the issue is too much for you.

 

Thanks for your comments, the discussion was academic to me and I didn’t hold out much hope for success but at least a few of us have given some thought to the subject :GoldenSmile1:

There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts.

 

Voltaire

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Look, agogos in BKK and Pattaya - who are already paying big bribes to operate - are still getting shut down and very few agogos on Walking Street are even allowed to have nude girls anymore. How lame is that. Many are not even topless. Even on forums like this, agogo owners do not want people posting specifics about what goes on inside!

 

This is happening because of police and political pressure. A LOT of police and political pressure.

 

And you want these places to stop trying to keep a low profile, and post a big banner saying "STD TESTED" at their door and advertising this?

 

This is simply not how this business works.

 

Whether it is good for monger customers and providers is completely moot.

Edited by dc_publius
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