Economic downturn? - But appears to be good for the Indians

[LISBON]

Unless you walk around Patts drunk everyday you will have noticed the numerous closed bars, bars with 'For Sale' notices and, of course, the vast number of bars which are still open but with no customers in them. Additionally to bars, many businesses and properties closed and for sale, especially around Soi Chayapoon and 3rd road.

However, Indian businesses appear to growing quite significantly and not just in the tailoring side, new restaurants seem to spring up very frequently (New Plaza has two now) and businesses which you would expect the Thai's to run are owned by Indians.

Soon, we may see some bars run by Indians (if there's a profit to be made) with imported girls from the poorer areas of India. One never knows!

 

If you haven't paid much attention to this previously, just have a look around on your next trip

 

With India as a country becoming more prosperous and tourism from that country increasing by 16% a year, I think there will be a point in the not too distant future when the Indians will take over in Pattaya, just like in Bradford (England)

 

Indian people are of a kind nature, but if they were to take over in Pattaya, do you think mongering would still be the same here?

 

Here are a few photos from Bradford

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2011 by LISBON

[HowieD]

Thais aren't as soft as us Westerners, in allowing foreign cultures to invade ours.

 

The changes we see here in Australia are due to us not wanting to offend others, we allow them the opportunity to change cultures and stop being who we are as to not offend them.

 

They don't force change we allow them to take kindness as a weakness. An example in my local area was one year our shopping center didn't want nativity sets on display as not to offend Muslims.

 

We pushed China into free trade and we push our way of life onto others. Why shouldn't the whole world have cars, washing machines fridges etc

 

500 years ago the Middle East was at the forefront of science and education, we were burning witches and stoning folks left right and center in the name of god.

 

I think we are not going to be here long enough to see the pendulum shift once again, but we may be seeing it in it's infancy.

[Scumbag]

Thais aren't as soft as us Westerners, in allowing foreign cultures to invade ours.

Actually Indian culture 'invaded' Thailand a long time before Westerners came. Thai culture, religion and language were imported from India.

[Ohyesuare]

Please god, no.

[HowieD]

Actually Indian culture 'invaded' Thailand a long time before Westerners came. Thai culture, religion and language were imported from India.

 

Good point, hence seeing the Ganesha shrine on Soi Buakhao outside the Sawasdee hotel.

 

Cheers

[Scumbag]

Please god, no.

Actually I am going to interject and issue a warning.

 

We have recently had a number of threads dealing with Indians that have descended into racism. Some threads have been closed. It puts us moderators between a rock and a hard place as it is unfair of us to stop people gaining information about certain issues in Pattaya.

 

Please refrain from making posts that can be perceived as racism. If you haven’t got anything constructive to add perhaps it is best not to. I know there is a thin line between what is acceptable and what is not but for the benefit of our Indian BMs we need to be a bit stricter than we have been.

 

Any posts that are racist will be removed. Blatant racism will result in a warning being issued.

[HowieD]

Actually I am going to interject and issue a warning.

 

We have recently had a number of threads dealing with Indians that have descended into racism. Some threads have been closed. It puts us moderators between a rock and a hard place as it is unfair of us to stop people gaining information about certain issues in Pattaya.

 

Please refrain from making posts that can be perceived as racism. If you haven’t got anything constructive to add perhaps it is best not to. I know there is a thin line between what is acceptable and what is not but for the benefit of our Indian BMs we need to be a bit stricter than we have been.

 

Any posts that are racist will be removed. Blatant racism will result in a warning being issued.

 

If possible, could you remove my post as it's not really of much relevance or accuracy.

 

Cheers

[Scumbag]

If possible, could you remove my post as it's not really of much relevance or accuracy.

 

Cheers

I think your is OK. The warning was not in reference to anything in this thread. It was pre-planned in my head for the next time an 'Indian' thread popped up.

[The_Gun]

I have just removed the post i was thinking of making, because it would definately of been racist.

[Sa-teef]

Thailand has been a meeting place for Southern and East Asian cultures long before there was R&R in the '60's and cheap flights from the West. Thai written and spoken language has it's roots in Indian Sanskrit and the Theravada Buddhism which is practiced by the vast majority of Thais has it's roots in Sri Lanka I believe? You can see the influence of many different societies in the wonderful foods of Thailand. The ancestral genetic home of Thailand is believed to be somewhere in southern China but the influences of many Asian cultures have been here long before any of us westerners decided to pay it a visit.

Thailand is a dynamic culture that has seen the coming and going of many different peoples over the centuries. In the majority of cases I think they have kept the best and forgotten most of the rest.

[Edge]

I think your is OK. The warning was not in reference to anything in this thread. It was pre-planned in my head for the next time an 'Indian' thread popped up.

 

If not for the purposes of incitement, I can't see the relevance of the Bradford pics myself.

 

What has the question of whether Indians start running bars got to do with those images?

[Ohyesuare]

Just to clarify my please god no was to that pic of Bradford and I would say the same to any group or mix of people who would crowd Pattaya like that. If that is considered racist then feel free to remove my posts.

[socrates]

I met one Indian guy in Soi Happy - he has a bar with his TG - its all in her name etc etc.

 

If he lifts one finger to do any work he has been warned he will be jailed pronto - so the likelihood of Indian women coming to work in Thai is at this stage zero.

[LISBON]

If not for the purposes of incitement, I can't see the relevance of the Bradford pics myself.

 

What has the question of whether Indians start running bars got to do with those images?

 

I asked one question "Indian people are of a kind nature, but if they were to take over in Pattaya, do you think mongering would still be the same here?" I have lived in India and probably have more knowledge about mongering there than in Thailand, to me the question which asked BM's if they thought mongering would be the same if the majority of Pattaya was occupied by Indians was interesting and of value.

But unfortunately this topic has been ruined somewhat by people reading between the lines and looking for racial provocation issues

 

"Why the Bradford photos"

I was married to an Indian lady for 25 years, My work in the early 90's took me to live in Yorkshire for a number of years. I took my lady into the Asian areas of Bradford. She was amazed and said "Its just like being back in Bombay" (Mumbai)

My Father also lived in Bradford when there were no Asians here, during his later years he saw how Bradford changed as the Asian community increased.

Hence, I thought Bradford and some photos were a good example of how places can change with a influx of economic migrants.

 

 

During the 1950s a few thousand Asian and Afro-Caribbean immigrants arrived in Bradford from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, East Africa, Dominica, Jamaica, Barbados and smaller islands, including St. Lucia and St. Kitts.

Changes in the immigration laws, and large-scale population displacements in their home countries encouraged many Asian men to bring their families to Bradford.

An international city with a strong cosmopolitan feel, the legacy of the early immigrants has created a unique culture full of surprises and choices which has become one of the city's key strengths.

South Asians now account for nearly 20% of Bradford's population

 

"What has the question of whether Indians start running bars got to do with those images?"

 

Funny, I don't remember asking this question, but I did say 'Soon, we may see some bars run by Indians (if there's a profit to be made) with imported girls from the poorer areas of India'

I added a photo of Indian ladies in Falkland road Mumbai (red light area) as many BM's haven't been mongering in India before.

 

So, maybe your statement was just to incite some kind of reaction, maybe not!

Edited November 30, 2011 by LISBON

[LISBON]

I met one Indian guy in Soi Happy - he has a bar with his TG - its all in her name etc etc.

 

If he lifts one finger to do any work he has been warned he will be jailed pronto - so the likelihood of Indian women coming to work in Thai is at this stage zero.

 

Why would this guy be jailed if he lifts one finger?

[Edge]

........................................

So, maybe your statement was just to incite some kind of reaction, maybe not!

 

You haven't answered my Qs, but it doesn't matter anyway as they were directed at a Moderator and were rhetorical.

Presumably you couldn't find any Qs addressed to you.

 

I think the thread is a bad one and should be taken down, so I won't be bumping it further.

 

 

 

 

Why would this guy be jailed if he lifts one finger?

 

Presumably Bar 24 - He'll be on a Non-Imm O Visa presumably, the same as most Farang owners who 'own' a bar but have no Work Permit so they aren't allowed to work.

[Sa-teef]

Post #1 and post #14 don't seem to be from the same planet much less the same topic.

I think I'll stay clear of General Discussions until the dust clears, thank you.

[badboybilly]

Can I ask are they Indian's or Pakistani's ............I think there not Indians .....the ones in your Bradford pics.....there from Pakistan.

[Perthie]

Why would this guy be jailed if he lifts one finger?

 

Same situation as the Aussie/English/German etc bar 'owners' in Pattaya. They don't actually have a Work Permit. If they're spotted doing so much as emptying an ash-tray, they're 'working without a permit' and can end up down at the police station paying 'fines' or at the worst getting jailed and thrown out of the country.

 

Their businesses are normally operated by the Thai wife or a Thai manager/Partner. The foreigner is allowed to put in the money to buy the business (49% ownership I believe) and to hang around overseeing what's happening, but not to physically do any work.

 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, this is info' I've been given whilst chatting to business owners in Pattaya.

 

On the separate issue of Indian businesses, the reason that Indians are so successful is that their culture operates in a far more family orientated manner than the average Western family. When an Indian family goes in to business, the whole extended family becomes involved and the business is operated for the common good of everyone. It's very efficient, as it keeps staffing costs to a minimum and allows for very competitive pricing. It gets griped about because the Western business model is different and normally employs a bunch of staff, so the profits are reduced for the "boss".

 

Cheers

 

Perthie

Edited November 30, 2011 by Perthie

[LISBON]

Same situation as the Aussie/English/German etc bar 'owners' in Pattaya. They don't actually have a Work Permit. If they're spotted doing so much as emptying an ash-tray, they're 'working without a permit' and can end up down at the police station paying 'fines' or at the worst getting jailed and thrown out of the country.

 

Their businesses are normally operated by the Thai wife or a Thai manager/Partner. The foreigner is allowed to put in the money to buy the business (49% ownership I believe) and to hang around overseeing what's happening, but not to physically do any work.

 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, this is info' I've been given whilst chatting to business owners in Pattaya.

 

On the separate issue of Indian businesses, the reason that Indians are so successful is that their culture operates in a far more family orientated manner than the average Western family. When an Indian family goes in to business, the whole extended family becomes involved and the business is operated for the common good of everyone. It's very efficient, as it keeps staffing costs to a minimum and allows for very competitive pricing. It gets griped about because the Western business model is different and normally employs a bunch of staff, so the profits are reduced for the "boss".

 

Cheers

 

Perthie

 

Yes mate, after being married to an Indian lady for 25 years I am fully aware how the family business works, I've been part of it for many years.

With regards to Indians in Patts I presume that all the guys who work in the Indian tailors shops and restaurants are here on full work permits then, correct?

[Perthie]

Yes mate, after being married to an Indian lady for 25 years I am fully aware how the family business works, I've been part of it for many years.

With regards to Indians in Patts I presume that all the guys who work in the Indian tailors shops and restaurants are here on full work permits then, correct?

 

You know, I hadn't really even considered the hundreds of tailors in Pattaya/LOS. Maybe one of the local BM's might have some knowledge of that? All I can think of is that they have permits or are 'Thai Nationals'. Either that or they're all 'illegals' and it's just that a blind-eye is turned to the situation.

 

Anyone care to enlighten us?

 

Cheers

 

Perthie

[dirtbird]

I think the guys in the tailor shops are Bangladeshi

[casinoclub]

You know, I hadn't really even considered the hundreds of tailors in Pattaya/LOS. Maybe one of the local BM's might have some knowledge of that? All I can think of is that they have permits or are 'Thai Nationals'. Either that or they're all 'illegals' and it's just that a blind-eye is turned to the situation.

 

Anyone care to enlighten us?

 

 

The ones that I have talked to are Thai born Thais of Indian descent.

[Sa-teef]

The ones that I have talked to are Thai born Thais of Indian descent.

 

And their fathers or grandfathers likely obtained permanent residency so their children are natural born Thais. They are part of the fabric of Thailand now, with substantial investments in retail and real estate in the Bangkok area and I would expect Pattaya as well.

[Edge]

You know, I hadn't really even considered the hundreds of tailors in Pattaya/LOS. Maybe one of the local BM's might have some knowledge of that? All I can think of is that they have permits or are 'Thai Nationals'. Either that or they're all 'illegals' and it's just that a blind-eye is turned to the situation.

 

Anyone care to enlighten us?

 

Cheers

 

Perthie

 

Sonny, a 'tailor' in Soi 8 was on the same One Year Non Imm O Visa I was on last time I spoke to him.

 

No rights to own property in his own name and all that - didn't like to ask about Work Permit.

 

I assume there are lots in similar situations, but I was given to understand that most of the ones born here are of Nepalese descent?

 

Small distinction perhaps.....