Western economic meltdown...

[Harry Brown]

Well, the times I've been there I don't see lots of Thais on the dole or rioting because they can't retire at 50 with full benefits. People in the west wouldn't work at all for subsistance wages; they would expect the government to take care of them. As union workers in western factories price themselves out of business, workers in countries like China, India and Thailand are doing their jobs.

 

 

You never see accountants taking a pay cut why don't they take a hit for the common good.

 

look at the common mans standard of living . For western workers to work for the same wages and conditions ( this is a big cost) when you think about safety, so do we throw safety out the window to compete and put lives at risk

 

We would have huts or shacks for houses , rubbish in the streets, drainage systems that don't work, poor sanitation , roads that constantly need repair, this is reality in the third world countries .

 

as far as workmanship goes i just chucked a toaster I bought made in china in the bin after two months it shit its self.

 

a heater that fused after two seasons , so the quality is not there either

 

 

 

[philkrenshaw]

You never see accountants taking a pay cut why don't they take a hit for the common good.

 

look at the common mans standard of living . For western workers to work for the same wages and conditions ( this is a big cost) when you think about safety, so do we throw safety out the window to compete and put lives at risk

 

We would have huts or shacks for houses , rubbish in the streets, drainage systems that don't work, poor sanitation , roads that constantly need repair, this is reality in the third world countries .

 

as far as workmanship goes i just chucked a toaster I bought made in china in the bin after two months it shit its self.

 

a heater that fused after two seasons , so the quality is not there either

 

I wouldn't blame your toaster on workmanship. I'd blame it on design. I used to work for Honeywell. We sold quality products, even if made overseas. However, an Indian auto company asked for a turbocharger and instead of a 20 year lifetime, they wanted something that would last 9 months. Very often, you get what you pay for when you buy something cheap. If your toaster was made by a reputable company, it would still have been under warranty after two months and they'd have replaced it. The same for your heater. Most Apple products are manufactured in China, but they're designed in the USA. The products aren't cheaper than competitors, but of consistantly higher quality.

 

I'm not saying Western workers should work for the same wages as someone in, say, China. I'm saying a Western worker who is out of work will, all too often, demand the government take care of him rather than get another job. It's the entitlement mentality that I consider the opposite of the work ethic. And the entitlement mentality is a major cause of the subject of this thread, the Western Economic Meltdown.

 

I'm also not saying we shouldn't be safe, but a lot of the safety rules and regulations are way overdone to avoid frivolous lawsuits.

http://www.dumbwarnings.com/

http://www.guy-sports.com/virtual/warnings.htm

[Harry Brown]

I wouldn't blame your toaster on workmanship. I'd blame it on design. I used to work for Honeywell. We sold quality products, even if made overseas. However, an Indian auto company asked for a turbocharger and instead of a 20 year lifetime, they wanted something that would last 9 months. Very often, you get what you pay for when you buy something cheap. If your toaster was made by a reputable company, it would still have been under warranty after two months and they'd have replaced it. The same for your heater. Most Apple products are manufactured in China, but they're designed in the USA. The products aren't cheaper than competitors, but of consistantly higher quality.

 

I'm not saying Western workers should work for the same wages as someone in, say, China. I'm saying a Western worker who is out of work will, all too often, demand the government take care of him rather than get another job. It's the entitlement mentality that I consider the opposite of the work ethic. And the entitlement mentality is a major cause of the subject of this thread, the Western Economic Meltdown.

 

I'm also not saying we shouldn't be safe, but a lot of the safety rules and regulations are way overdone to avoid frivolous lawsuits.

http://www.dumbwarnings.com/

http://www.guy-sport...al/warnings.htm

 

I agree with some of what you say there is nonsense from all sides , but I also happen to think that entitlement isn't the only factor , though I do agree that some entitlement is BS, if I were a business owner I would not like to fork out for pregnancy leave , also paying large sums of redundancy to workers that are are just hiding in the system and being unproductive ....I could go on.

 

I guess I'm in the middle ground on this subject but I find that some businesses are or would be unscrupulous and mercenary if they were allowed.

 

Some of the financial woe around the world has been caused by some of these poor business practices such as with what started the ball rolling in America with the lending of money to the housing loan sector and over extending of credit when that collapsed it was and still is a domino effect around the world.

 

Also sometimes you will see an executive of a large corporation that has performed in his duties dismally but still gets paid 30- 80- 100 million or more and you see this time and time again , business should be protecting there shareholders from these sorts of rorts as well

 

 

 

 

[philkrenshaw]

I agree with some of what you say there is nonsense from all sides , but I also happen to think that entitlement isn't the only factor , though I do agree that some entitlement is BS, if I were a business owner I would not like to fork out for pregnancy leave , also paying large sums of redundancy to workers that are are just hiding in the system and being unproductive ....I could go on.

 

I guess I'm in the middle ground on this subject but I find that some businesses are or would be unscrupulous and mercenary if they were allowed.

 

Some of the financial woe around the world has been caused by some of these poor business practices such as with what started the ball rolling in America with the lending of money to the housing loan sector and over extending of credit when that collapsed it was and still is a domino effect around the world.

 

Also sometimes you will see an executive of a large corporation that has performed in his duties dismally but still gets paid 30- 80- 100 million or more and you see this time and time again , business should be protecting there shareholders from these sorts of rorts as well

 

You'll get no argument from me about overpaid executives. I worked for a company called Gould and when they laid off our entire lab, I had T-shirts printed up with the company logo and "Gould lost $350 million and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt." I wore my T-shirt to the stockholders' meeting. I was surprised that, instead of anyone giving me a hard time, many attendees asked if I could sell them one.

 

For a great source of info on exactly how the housing problem came about, along with the subsequent problems, go to the following link and watch videos under the subject "Credit Crisis." This is a non-political, just the facts explanation about how all that stuff works.

 

http://www.khanacademy.org/?video=the-housing-price-conundrum#credit-crisis

 

If you start at the first one and work your way through them you will be amazed about how the Collateralized Debt Obligations screwed everything up and why it has been so difficult to recover.

[Harry Brown]

Cheers Phil,

 

thanks for those vids.

[Sammy99]

Buy gold as much as posible as it will rise to 30000 bahts

[Jonathonmac]

Danny 99 suggests buying gold, now there are 2 schools of thought on this one. First it is traditionally seen as a safe haven in times of turmoil, but second that it's price can also drop like a proverbial bog seat (eg the last 5 days)....ordinary joes are talking about gold, the way they used to talk about property...when everybody is into something, it's usually to late!

[arjan333]

gold down from 1900 u.s dollar to 1600 maybe buy some at 1400

[Jonathonmac]

As I say Arjan when Joe public gets talking about something it's usually way too late...better to think outside the box eg UK commercial property

[Jonathonmac]

Now chaps not that I enjoy being a harbinger of doom, however the Bank of England's decision today to redraft quantitative easing will have a direct effect on all of us...the result of the bank making available billions of £ will have an effect on currency rates, just watch the £/bhat ratio fall like a bog seat...nowadays globalism means that we are all touched by events

[jocky king]

Bank of England boss said on Sky News this morning that The world are in a serious shit probably worst than 1930 depression... They have to pump £75 billion in UK economy for small business as well...

[THAJEC]

Moodys agency decreased rating of nine England banks today. More and more bad news are coming last period.

[lostagain]

gold down from 1900 u.s dollar to 1600 maybe buy some at 1400

 

Long term gold appreciates. In my life I can remember when it was $32/oz ... in my fathers time $20/oz.

$2000/oz .... gee if I had only known.

Edited October 18, 2011 by lostagain

[Vego69]

Aust economy is still going strong. Only thing that pisses me off is the wild fluctuations in the exchange rate!! Every time there is bad news from Europe or the US the AUD crashes! Fortunately goes back up again just as quick!

[arjan333]

well europe is saved. efsf 1000 billion euro . s&p rates efsf AAA . haircut greece 50% . tier1 all banks must be at least 9% in june 2013.

[Diar]

Thats not really saved, its more like a delay before the next problem comes.

But who knows, if they can get the people positive enough to start spending again they can at least lessen the crisis a bit.

[Winthorp]

Greece is to hold a referendum on their bailout, watch them vote it "No" and the entire Euro collapse.

[chris2004]

Greece is to hold a referendum on their bailout, watch them vote it "No" and the entire Euro collapse.

 

I agree this is obviously going to be the outcome with massive uncertainty over the next 3 months. Major shit coming our way soon.

[Sexyfarangman]

Do you know how many times i've read reports like this m8? Many times AMIGO!

 

You can show me all the stats available but the Thai government will continue buying trillions of their own currency to keep the Baht at a acceptable level....as always.

 

I can tell you right now bro....most Australians are buying cars (Honda,Toyota,Ford) that are all made in Thailand. Seafood,furniture,white goods & electrical products etc, also from Thailand ..& the list grows everyday.

 

We'll obviously soon see if your information is correct.

 

Agree. I've been hearing this story or 5 years now of how the Thai baht will undergo a big devaluation. However, it just keeps getting stronger.

[arjan333]

The Greek people better vote yes. if they vote no, the cuts will dubble

[jocky king]

Greece is thowing a kitchen sink at the EU with a referendum Vote...The No vote will win easily and Greece will default, then the shit will hit the fan in the world economy with Euro is in tatters , Massive Unemployment and food shortages in horizon resulting a social disobedient and a major riot againist their own country and eventually a third world war....mmmmm Sorry lads, Forget what i,m talking about about, i,m taking a quick nap....

[Winthorp]

Something big has happened to the markets I have seen the cheapest flights to LOS increase by almost €200 in the last 24 hrs!

[Inspector Moy]

World economies are far more complex than anyone on this Forum can even begin to contemplate.

 

We can do nothing to change it, we can do nothing to influence it. It is what happens. Governments control our economic destiny. We have to adapt and we have to alter our lifestyles to enjoy the things which mean so much to us.

 

Make every effort to avoid the economic pitfalls and continue to enjoy the pleasures of the Land of Smiles. Live and let live !!!

[Binjalin]

Gold is a difficult thing to judge - one friend is investing 8m in PMs but I think it's dangerous too. What about those companies who have billions in cash? At some stage that will be released into the markets - there is no easy answer unless you bought years ago. It may not be fashionable but people will always want somewhere to live - and property here is cheap. If a HUGE crash comes we are all in the shit anyway.

 

[manarak]

World economies are far more complex than anyone on this Forum can even begin to contemplate.

 

Speak for yourself!

 

The "western economic meltdown" we witness now is only a part of a larger process which started in the seventies (the visible part was the oil crisis), has accelerated in the 80ies and 90ies with the explosion of global trade and which will last until western countries will have reached more or less the same average standard of living as China/Brazil/Russia.

 

Currently, the general public is worried about Greece, but Greece is just "peanuts".

Economists are worried about Italy and Spain.

 

1- The 1000 Billion EUR rescue package is not enough, because the needs are about 1400 Billion

2- Italy and Spain will need about 60% of the total NEEDS (i.e. 840 Billion)

3- Italy and Spain are planned to contribute about 30% of the agreed 1000 Billion package

 

Can everyone see the problem?

 

One of the current situation's advantages is that it is relatively easy to do money on FX now. For example, buy AUD against CHF until December, the CHF being bound to the EUR, it will get sucked down while offering a borrow rate of 0.5%... hihihi.

 

P.S.

Property has been a safe harbor over the past centuries, but what we are experiencing now is a huge systemic break. Maybe the "value" of real estate won't fall to much, but there will be few buyers and many many people will not have enough money to rent!

The most impacted income classes will be the medium and higher medium income classes, in other words 3 and 4 room dwellings.

On the tax side, expect the government to rip you off at every opportunity. I know, I know... but what I mean is that they will do it even much more than now, LOL. And property will be targeted first.

I can only advise everybody with savings or property to get rid of it or make it "disappear" and to reinvest in assets that won't lose so much value.

Edited November 8, 2011 by manarak