To wai or not to wai

[PepeLePew]

The wai. Traditional Thai greeting. We see it everywhere and it is one of the beautiful parts of Thai culture that we fell in love with but should we, as farangs, be attempting it?

 

Why the f'ck not you might be thinking. Well the answer, in my view, depends on whether or not you know the rules. Did you know there are different types of wai for different types of people. Did you know there are times and people you should never wai. Never easy is it, and I don't have all the answers which is why I try not to wai. I know if and when I get it wrong I probably look bloody stupid to a Thai. No doubt in Pattaya and other touristy spots it doesn't matter. Thais may even be pleased you are trying to join in but be aware,in rural areas or more official situations you might be considered a laughing stock or even an imbecile.

 

I'm no expert but sometimes even I cringe at some poor chaps wai attempt. If I can spot it's wrong it must look dam funny to a local

 

I found this useful little vid which is a handy help. It is far from comprehensive though so don't expect to reach 5th dan level wai-ing after watching. There are a good few more wai types than the 3 she teaches but they are a good start. It is great for technique but not so good for rules. I know an adult should never wai a child, if anyone else has any wai advice please post

 

Pepe saying bye without a wai

 

 

(PS, yes she is fit, no I don't know what bar she works in)

 

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SRtsCuVqxtQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Anokanite]

I no longer do it, in Pattaya they laugh because it's part of what makes Pattaya uniquie, You could offend some people.

[THAJEC]

Thanks for sharing nice and instructive video. TG in video is sweet. Yes I was many times in discomfiture. I know basic rules for Wai greeting but sometimes I was not sure.

[pubstud]

Usually I'll only give a wai when I'm brown-nosing a high up official of policeman or important person. I'll also return wais out of courtesy (in the manner that the girl explains in the vid)

[PattayaFanatic]

Well I guess we're not respected by most of the girls as they don't wai their customers.Only half the girls I saw last year Wai'd me.

 

I know they don't expect farang to Wai.

I would like to under the right circumstances.

How can I show my respect to a monk etc as a farang?

Edited August 10, 2011 by PattayaFanatic

[Cerberus]

For us a nod and a smile of appreciation is all that is needed when receiving a Wai. The only time I break this rule is the Mrs Mother

[Perthie]

Have to agree with Mr C on this one, I don't know how to Wai properly, nor how to do it to show the appropriate amount of respect, so a smile and a nod seems to be perfectly acceptable.

 

If you really want to Wai and do it with ultimate style, I suggest you try something like this.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Perthie

[TGluvver]

Well I guess we're not respected by most of the girls as they don't wai their customers.Only half the girls I saw last year Wai'd me.

 

I know they don't expect farang to Wai.

I would like to under the right circumstances.

How can I show my respect to a monk etc as a farang?

 

Do you even need to?

 

Perhaps if you are buddhist, or trying to score 'points' with any onlooker. As far as I am concerned I don't go out of my way to do anything special for a priest, rabbi, cleric or shwami so I treat monks just the same.

[PattayaFanatic]

Paraphrasing Marilyn?

Are you talking about Lauren Becall's

"Put your lips together and blow"?

[PepeLePew]

I'll also return wais out of courtesy (in the manner that the girl explains in the vid)

 

Not to children I hope!

 

How can I show my respect to a monk etc as a farang?

 

I think the 1st wai in the vid is the way. Might be an idea to practice and ask someone if you are doing it correctly first.

 

If you really want to Wai and do it with ultimate style, I suggest you try something like this.

 

 

Now that is what I'm talking about, the Bruce Lee of the wai!

 

Do you even need to?

 

Possibly not, neither do we strictly need to learn the language but it is often something people like to do.

 

Paraphrasing Marilyn?

Are you talking about Lauren Becall's

"Put your lips together and blow"?

Branfart! What chance have I of getting a wai right if I can't even attribute a quote correctly! Thanks PF, I'll see if I can get it changed.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Pepe Le Pew

[FROST MEDIC999]

Hi

I am sure that over the last 30 Yrs I have got it wrong more times than right however, I shall continue with what I guess are my poor attempts, as it has stood me in good stead and still makes some Thais laugh,

 

The only thing that has changed for me is I do not Wai young Pups as it should be them doing it to me now as I'm nearly 50 unless as someone else said I am brown nosing

[Shake Girl]

For us a nod and a smile of appreciation is all that is needed when receiving a Wai. The only time I break this rule is the Mrs Mother

 

good guideline... i often meet people who have an equal or higher social status than i and this is where its appropriate. you'll never see me use a wai when covorting with the ladies we so love. its not appropriate and their not doing it with those of higher social status only shows bad manners or lack of efficient education during childhood in this society

Edited August 10, 2011 by Shake Girl

[pubstud]

Not to children I hope!

 

No I know better than that, having worked as a teacher in Thai schools for a quarter of a century. I meant to other adults who wai me as a greeting.

[slick67]

I never used to really bother with wai-ing as well, just a smile and a nod was usually good enough.

 

But as my Thai speaking is getting better I started to get comments on not wai-ing properly, as if they're thinking: oh, you can talk the talk, then you also have to walk the walk (or wai the wai in this case )

 

I guess in Pattaya in the bars it won't be much of a problem, but if you go around the country a bit it can be useful to know.

[PepeLePew]

For us a nod and a smile of appreciation is all that is needed when receiving a Wai. The only time I break this rule is the Mrs Mother

 

Thanks Cerberus. Out of interest did you wai when you got married and if so were you given wai advice or instruction?

 

 

Hi

I am sure that over the last 30 Yrs I have got it wrong more times than right however, I shall continue with what I guess are my poor attempts, as it has stood me in good stead and still makes some Thais laugh,

 

Good on you ghost. I hope this thread doesn't put anyone off 'trying a wai' but does encourage people to learn a little about when and how.

 

 

good guideline... i often meet people who have an equal or higher social status than i and this is where its appropriate. you'll never see me use a wai when covorting with the ladies we so love. its not appropriate and their not doing it with those of higher social status only shows bad manners or lack of efficient education during childhood in this society

 

You bring up an interesting point actually Shake. This whole business of status. Whilst I can't deny it's existence, in the west it is far less pronounced and often renounced as divisive and immoral. Whilst I fully understand how it works in Thailand and am happy to conform as a guest in another country I certainly don't agree with it. Of course it does depend on your definition of status but essentially if it means giving more respect to one person than another I simply don't do that as I respect every human equally until they prove me wrong.

 

So the wai as an instrument of repression and social immobility?

 

 

Not to children I hope!

No I know better than that, having worked as a teacher in Thai schools for a quarter of a century. I meant to other adults who wai me as a greeting.

 

Brilliant. From your long experience among Thais do you have any other wai tips or rules to share?

 

 

I never used to really bother with wai-ing as well, just a smile and a nod was usually good enough.

 

But as my Thai speaking is getting better I started to get comments on not wai-ing properly, as if they're thinking: oh, you can talk the talk, then you also have to walk the walk (or wai the wai in this case )

 

I guess in Pattaya in the bars it won't be much of a problem, but if you go around the country a bit it can be useful to know.

 

Agreed Slick, and it is interesting that you say your enhanced language skills are prompting people to actually expect a wai, possibly even being offended if you don't! What a minefield, good luck.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Pepe Le Pew

[pubstud]

 

Brilliant. From your long experience among Thais do you have any other wai tips or rules to share?

 

As you have asked Pepe, here's MY viewpoint on wais. I stress MY because other farang living in Thailand may have slightly differing viewpoints. But as a farang who has gone through various stages of not wai-ing to over wai-ing I've settled for the following:

 

 

I only give one type of wai, hands together fingertips close to, or touching tip of nose. I give this wai to Thai friends, influential people, and as a thank you or hello/goodbye to adults I'm dealing with (like in an office, a gov department, a doctor)

 

I return wais when given to me by all Thais other than little kids or a person I dislike.

 

I'm fully aware that Thais won't return wais to inferiors and lower-class people. I think it's up to the individual if you want to get into that or not. I chose not to, so if a maid or a gardener is courteous enough to wai me then I'll wai back.

 

I'm aware that there are several different styles of wai denoting different levels of respect. As a farang I'm not particularly interested in becoming involved in the Thai class system, however, in the unlikely event I was ever to greet a member of the Thai Royal Family or someone of a particularly high position in Thai society then I would give the appropriate wai.

 

I also find farang wai-ing Thais is not expected very much is tourist belts like Pattaya. I've been living here for 4 months this time and have given/received wais maybe half a dozen times. Yet prior to here I was living in Isarn for 4 years and gave/received wais half a dozen times a day.

 

 

 

Finally, I would suggest to others that as a farang do not over-concern yourself with the finer points of wais. Thais are fully aware that it is a Thai custom and farang shake hands. In fact most Thai businessman and Thais in senior positions that I have been introduced to will invariable put out their hand for a handshake. They don't expect the farang to wai but of course are happy to receive one.

[Shake Girl]

You bring up an interesting point actually Shake. This whole business of status. Whilst I can't deny it's existence, in the west it is far less pronounced and often renounced as divisive and immoral. Whilst I fully understand how it works in Thailand and am happy to conform as a guest in another country I certainly don't agree with it. Of course it does depend on your definition of status but essentially if it means giving more respect to one person than another I simply don't do that as I respect every human equally until they prove me wrong.

 

So the wai as an instrument of repression and social immobility?

 

i don't think the Thai class system is 'right' or 'just' but i'm not MLK Jr. and this aint Alabama. i'm not here to break down barriers or change they way people think, my only responsibility -imo- is to adhere to their rules including the 'class' ones in a way that allows me to accomplish the goals i've set for my work here and to be respected as someone who shows respect for this society and its culture. as i've said, i'll nod or wai complete based on the situation and who i happen to be greeting. as someone who always speaks thai with thai people, this is expected of me and i receive respect because of it. this is something i do like about thai culture, a measure of respect for your accomplishments and position as a leader, administrator or person of some measure of authority. when running a business, this is an important thing for overseeing thai employees. it doesn't repress social mobility as the respect given has in some way been earned at least from my observation. no doubt there is misplaced and twisted sort of classism but that's another story...

 

i also don't personally like the custom of shaking hands... it IS an unsanitary habit and i actually prefer to receive a wai but accept that is a part of western culture and i still have no problem doing it with westerners. it actually feels weird when a thais goes to shake my hand

[Cerberus]

'Pepe Le Pew' timestamp='1313041054' post='1324785'

 

Thanks Cerberus. Out of interest did you wai when you got married and if so were you given wai advice or instruction?

Yes I was, I had agreed to a traditional Thai wedding and felt it appropriate that I make the effort to get it right therefore. I suppose my own experience of giving or receiving a Wai is different, where as I meet many Thais who in their society would be seen as higher class, at the same time I am generally older than them. With senior officers we have settled into a comfortable handshake, usually initiated by them, whilst my wife does the Thai manners bit.

 

My mrs still Wais my friends when we meet as she prefers that to shaking hands, she hates it when people attempt the western habit of trying to hug or kiss her on the cheek.

[momomo]

Now, since my very first trip to LOS it was deeply ingrained in my brain never to wai since I (and we all) would invariably get it wrong... that was fine for me and I never really bothered to investigate further.

There was even this one occasion where I was invited to a wedding in Cambodia and just as we walked in, I was told I would have to wai at least to the parents/in-laws. It was too late to ask how high, whether to bow etc. and I felt the most uncomfortable and surely got it wrong, if only because of that.

 

Anyways, now watching this video in Pepe's OP I wonder: really? That's it? Choose between three wais and have one easy one for replies? Who on earth could get this wrong after a couple tries?

Admittedly, there are maybe a few more rules but, hey, come on...

 

So... did I miss something while watching or is this video just a very crude demo of the principle and the devil lies in never ending details?

Thanks for further clarifications, guys!

[PepeLePew]

quote name='Pepe Le Pew' timestamp='1313041054' post='1324785'

Brilliant. From your long experience among Thais do you have any other wai tips or rules to share?

 

As you have asked Pepe, here's MY viewpoint on wais. .............................................

Thanks Pubstud, it's all about sharing info and experience on here and yours is a valuable contribution

 

 

i don't think the Thai class system is 'right' or 'just' but i'm not MLK Jr. and this aint Alabama. .....................................

...........................

 

A little thing like a wai can have so many angles. Although my 'instrument of repression' comment was firmly tongue in cheek it does raise interesting questions about the Thai respect culture.

 

Yes I was, I had agreed to a traditional Thai wedding and felt it appropriate that I make the effort to get it right therefore. I suppose my own experience of giving or receiving a Wai is different, where as I meet many Thais who in their society would be seen as higher class, at the same time I am generally older than them. With senior officers we have settled into a comfortable handshake, usually initiated by them, whilst my wife does the Thai manners bit.

 

My mrs still Wais my friends when we meet as she prefers that to shaking hands, she hates it when people attempt the western habit of trying to hug or kiss her on the cheek.

 

Thanks for sharing Cerberus. Your class vs age problem is exactly the type of interesting situation that could confuse a farang yet is probably 2nd nature to a Thai. They would know from the off who is where and whether they wai 1st or wait to return the given wai.

 

 

Now, since my very first trip to LOS it was deeply ingrained in my brain never to wai since I (and we all) would invariably get it wrong... that was fine for me and I never really bothered to investigate further.

There was even this one occasion where I was invited to a wedding in Cambodia and just as we walked in, I was told I would have to wai at least to the parents/in-laws. It was too late to ask how high, whether to bow etc. and I felt the most uncomfortable and surely got it wrong, if only because of that.

 

Anyways, now watching this video in Pepe's OP I wonder: really? That's it? Choose between three wais and have one easy one for replies? Who on earth could get this wrong after a couple tries?

Admittedly, there are maybe a few more rules but, hey, come on...

 

So... did I miss something while watching or is this video just a very crude demo of the principle and the devil lies in never ending details?

Thanks for further clarifications, guys!

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head Momomo, the devil is indeed in the detail (see class vs age above). I think the 3 in the video are a good starting point and will stand you in good stead for most situations but by no means comprehensive. That is pretty much my motivation (apart from general interest and curiosity) for starting this thread. I suspect there may be regional variations as well as situational ones.

[pubstud]

"i also don't personally like the custom of shaking hands... it IS an unsanitary habit and i actually prefer to receive a wai but accept that is a part of western culture and i still have no problem doing it with westerners. it actually feels weird when a thais goes to shake my hand" - Agree. Thais give a terrible limp handshake, they also tend to shake hands with the same frequency they wai. When I taught business English classes I used to have a special lesson on handshaking.

 

"My mrs still Wais my friends when we meet as she prefers that to shaking hands, she hates it when people attempt the western habit of trying to hug or kiss her on the cheek." - Makes me laugh when I see farang using this custom with Thais, trying to hug and kiss a mate's wife, you see the women recoil.

[Jade Snake]

How about wai-ing as apology? I've heard that is done sometimes, and once I was late for my flight on Thai - it had gotten to the point where they were paging me over the intercom and I ended up running in a very undignified way down the boarding thingy, hurriedly wai-ing to the airline staff (who i wouldn't normally wai) as I went by, as a way of saying sorry for holding up the flight. Probably looked like a dill, but they did wai back. It was a pretty half-assed effort doen on the run though, and I wondered if it would have been better to either not do it at all or stop and do it properly?

 

Also, was recently in the room with a Thai WG here, and at one point she wai-ed me quite solemnly really, and I felt she was watching closely to see what I would do. I settled for the smile and nod, which would be a no-brainer outside the room. I had spoken some Thai and discussed some aspects of Thailand with her (this was after the deed was done). I can't remember why she wai-d me - it wasn't goodbye, as it wasn't the end of the time. Is it never appropriate for us to wai a working girl, or is that only in public? In general, do the rules change depending upon whether other people might see or not?

[PeterKe]

It's a great idea to learn how to Wai properly, but foreigners are always given more leeway in who they Wai to. I tend to Wai too much (ok, not to kids, shop assistants etc) and the feedback I get from all walks of society is that people really like it.

 

Thai society is pretty rigid, but the younger generation, particularly in cities, are starting to break it down - same as all over the world really.

 

So basically, great advice, but I wouldn't let it put anyone off giving someone a Wai.

[pubstud]

How about wai-ing as apology? I've heard that is done sometimes, and once I was late for my flight on Thai - it had gotten to the point where they were paging me over the intercom and I ended up running in a very undignified way down the boarding thingy, hurriedly wai-ing to the airline staff (who i wouldn't normally wai) as I went by, as a way of saying sorry for holding up the flight. Probably looked like a dill, but they did wai back. It was a pretty half-assed effort doen on the run though, and I wondered if it would have been better to either not do it at all or stop and do it properly?

 

Also, was recently in the room with a Thai WG here, and at one point she wai-ed me quite solemnly really, and I felt she was watching closely to see what I would do. I settled for the smile and nod, which would be a no-brainer outside the room. I had spoken some Thai and discussed some aspects of Thailand with her (this was after the deed was done). I can't remember why she wai-d me - it wasn't goodbye, as it wasn't the end of the time. Is it never appropriate for us to wai a working girl, or is that only in public? In general, do the rules change depending upon whether other people might see or not?

 

Yes wai-ing can be used as an apology, also as an act of submission, I seen people - both Thai and non-Thai - wai-ing madly to someone about to smash their ass to pieces.

[PepeLePew]

Also, was recently in the room with a Thai WG here, and at one point she wai-ed me quite solemnly really, and I felt she was watching closely to see what I would do. I settled for the smile and nod, which would be a no-brainer outside the room. I had spoken some Thai and discussed some aspects of Thailand with her (this was after the deed was done). I can't remember why she wai-d me - it wasn't goodbye, as it wasn't the end of the time. Is it never appropriate for us to wai a working girl, or is that only in public? In general, do the rules change depending upon whether other people might see or not?

 

Good point Jade. When do you wai back someone to whom you wouldn't normally wai? Apparently Monks and (censored) don't need to ever return a wai. I presume if a child gives a wai you don't return it?