Buying a Go Go Bar

[johnboy1]

I'll keep this brief.

 

I'm thinking about buying a bar and relocating to Patts.

 

I just want as much information as possible, pros, cons etc - eg, how much do you have to pay to the BIB. What are the extra fees for rents and rates.

 

There are always places coming up for sale, so I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not - if they were making so much money then why sell them.

[SlowlyMan]

How do you make a small fortune in Patts?

 

Start with a large fortune.

 

Seriously, hope it works out for you.

[Martinell]

I'll keep this brief.

 

I'm thinking about buying a bar and relocating to Patts.

 

I just want as much information as possible, pros, cons etc - eg, how much do you have to pay to the BIB. What are the extra fees for rents and rates.

 

There are always places coming up for sale, so I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not - if they were making so much money then why sell them.

My opinion, you do not have the best starting point if you have no experience first, and you will with 99.9% chance being disappointed.

Be careful and good luck if you do it.

[jocky king]

Buying a bar in Pattaya is very difficult.. I knew a man from my hometown in Ireland, went to Thailand to start a bar business in 2005..Last March his parents had to send the money to him to buy one way flight Home from BKK... He lost all his investments and a bar.. That was his compensation money from the car crash in 2000, roughly €150,000.. That all gone now.. Back to his parents house in Ireland skint... I dont know about you, you should take a holidays first and ask around the bar and see if they make any money and then you will know better... If buying a bar, it will be difficult to find a trustee staff just in case you are not there at the bar.. But good luck on your decision and Be careful..

[Sisu]

Why not rent a small beer bar first just to see what comes up and to create necessarily connections and "friends"? I doubt you will get precise answers from any public forum. Lots of other great investment opportunities around the world.

[THAJEC]

Do you have useless money ? Do you have little bit problems ? Do you have enough experiences about Pats and many contacts thai people ? Are you serious about it ? Seriously ! I am sorry about my opinion but I think It is not good idea !

Edited July 23, 2011 by THAJEC

[Kandinski]

Buying a bar in Pattaya is very difficult.. I knew a man from my hometown in Ireland, went to Thailand to start a bar business in 2005..Last March his parents had to send the money to him to buy one way flight Home from BKK... He lost all his investments and a bar.. That was his compensation money from the car crash in 2000, roughly €150,000.. That all gone now.. Back to his parents house in Ireland skint... I dont know about you, you should take a holidays first and ask around the bar and see if they make any money and then you will know better... If buying a bar, it will be difficult to find a trustee staff just in case you are not there at the bar.. But good luck on your decision and Be careful..

 

Same thing happen to my mate. Heritage a pretty penny, got a LT TGF, bought a bar and in 2009. Tg milked him dry and has for the past year been borrowing money for rent, licens etc. January 1st. -12 the landlord take over bar and he'll must likely need to borrow to ticket home, skinned and with a more than avarage alcohol consumtion move in with his + 80 father in an age of 49.

I can only wish you the best of luck.

[Stillearly]

Buying a bar in Pattaya is very difficult.. I knew a man from my hometown in Ireland, went to Thailand to start a bar business in 2005..Last March his parents had to send the money to him to buy one way flight Home from BKK... He lost all his investments and a bar.. That was his compensation money from the car crash in 2000, roughly €150,000.. That all gone now.. Back to his parents house in Ireland skint... I dont know about you, you should take a holidays first and ask around the bar and see if they make any money and then you will know better... If buying a bar, it will be difficult to find a trustee staff just in case you are not there at the bar.. But good luck on your decision and Be careful..

 

doesn't seem that bad, €150,000 over six years, is only €25,000 per year , so just over €2,000 per month to live in LOS

[noodleman]

I justed the advice of long term BM as to what happened to alot of businesses in Pattaya bars and gogos. You see I remeber going alot to pattaya in 2000 til 2007 and the place was booming there where bars that were full every night. Like atlantic then UTOO and seems people all of a sudden just stopped visiting in mass numbers maybe the GFC but hasnt the economy recovered its been 5 years.

[jerry]

Don't get the illusion you gonna make any money with a bar .

[Daveo]

If you are new to this I would advise take it very very slowly, make pals of a couple of westerners who already own one and pick their brains, I guess its got to be the ultimate dream in Pattaya but it will not come easily, its so competative now, look at the Metro and surrounding area that is really booming now, Walking Street for your first ago go I think not.

[flying_guitars]

Go there first and spend lots of time in Bars/GoGo's and see what works and what doesnt.Read books on Thailand...learn how thai's do business and get an understand of there business sense and culture.Then study up on how to run a sucessful business. You would need girls to attract punters to your place of business ...So you would need to know how to handle all your employees..security/cashiers/waiters and babysiting 10/15 Bg's ..Also you would have to spend every minute of every day there ..so its run right.

Edited July 24, 2011 by flying_guitars

[Diar]

disclaimer: I am only guessing really.

 

My advice for starting a bar in LoS (or starting a buisness in any country really) is that first you should go there, stay a while and see how things work from a customer side. Then you have to make contacts, is this case first get to know some western people that already run bars and see how they do it and listen to their advice. Also since TiT I think you have to know some thais that have a bit of power in the system, like befriending some BiBs maybe, and not just the once that are out on the street. Probably would help to know someone in city office too for permits maybe.

Once you have this little network of contacs its time to find a trustworthy thai to run the buisness for you, someone that knows how to do it....

After that its pretty much just hire the personell and sort out the deliveries.

 

But really, from what I have read on this board on how things are run in LoS I am not sure I would like to run a buisness there. Just too much hassle.

[Edge]

A GoGo Bar would really be jumping into the deep end and a veritable minefield to boot (if you can have a minefield in a swimming pool).

 

Profitable GoGo Bars are very unlikely to be for sale or very expensive, so you would be likely to be starting off in a failed bar with little/no experience, probably in the wrong location.

[brewster]

If the old Paris/Atlantis Agogo in soi Diamond is still up for sale, I say "go for it!" Great location and a nice little bar. With decent girls, decently priced drinks and a friendly manager (like the much missed Louis) it could be a little goldmine!

[andy666]

If you have the possibility to take a sabbathyear back home and to open some business in LOS, why not do it? Even if it fails it could turn out to be the best year of your life, as long as you DON'T INVEST MORE MONEY THAN YOU CAN AFFORT TO LOSE!!! And know when to stop... Good luck and let me know where your bar is

[johnboy1]

Thanks for all the replies - answers to some of your questions as follows:

 

1. I do know a ferang that owns a go go bar on WS, he currently pays himself 50,000B per month and still makes a profit after all his other expenses. I do not know this person that well, so I do not know if what he is telling me is BS.

 

2. I have spent a lot of time in the go go bars (strictly for research purposes only) and it appears to me that you have to be there at all times to ensure the staff are working and that the customers are happy - same same my country (but different - TIT).

 

3. I do not have any Thai friends, or friends in Patts - got the idea from a go go girl that I know. She has just opened up a bar, thanks to her sponsor - when I say thanks to her sponsor, this is a bot off topic but I'll explain.

 

He met her earlier this year. Moved her into his condo and began sponsoring. Sadly for him, she used to tell her friends that she had to go to Monkey House (gaol) every time he visited - I think you all know whats coming. They split up a few weeks back and she bought this bar on the strength of it - and yes she was still working at the go go bar when he was not in Thailand. I feel sorry for the guy (an ozzie) - but they did win the Tour de France, and Casey Moaner won in the USA (Moto GP) yesterday.

 

I'm a big believer in tam dee dai dee, tham chua dai chua (you do good deeds, good deeds come back to you - you do bad deeds, bad deeds come back to you) so lets hope the universal balance is restored and the poor guy gets a tick in the win coloumn soon.

 

4. I've never run a bar, but I have run my own business.

 

5. I don't know any BIB's, or officials.

 

 

I really need to hear from ferangs that run their own bars and can give me useful tips on start up costs, ongoing costs, BIB payments, average utility costs etc etc.....

 

So far, from what I've read I'm very much errrrrrring on the side of caution.

[Balla055]

I don't know anything about opening up a gogo. But some things I would consider are hiring a mamasan first, you've got to get a good one you can trust. Maybe a manager too, also must be trustworthy. And I personally don't trust any Thai with all the bullshit I've seen. Then the rest of the staff, and the girls. Girls will usually follow a mamasan. So if a good mamasan brings her girls then that's good. I would imagine the rent would be insanely high, anywhere near Walking St. You've got to put in the time in the bar yourself. Every night. Just look at all the other bars or gogos owned by farang, the owner is in there almost every night, for a good amount of time. Then the BiB, don't know how much the payoff is, but you better pay or you end up in prison and will pay more. Yes, you are putting your freedom at stake because you will be running a whorehouse. You cannot own more than half the bar, only 49% of it, 51% must be Thai owned. Of course you will put it in a company name, but then you can't own more than half of that either, only a Thai can. So either way somewhere you will be giving away over half your investment to a Thai. I'm not sure how the other farang bar owners do it, but they must have someone they can trust or they are all risking the chance getting screwed by a Thai. I personally wonder if the Thai government didn't create the 49% law to give poor Thais a chance to obtain free lazy big money by cheating and scamming farang. They are given controlling interest for nothing. Of course you can split that up into smaller percentages amongst different Thais. But still, what's from them getting together to take all your investment? Thailand is not friendly towards Farang. I don't even like to call Thailand the Land of Smiles. Behind all those smiles is deception and lies.

[QuotaMan]

I don't know anything about opening up a gogo. But some things I would consider are hiring a mamasan first, you've got to get a good one you can trust. Maybe a manager too, also must be trustworthy. And I personally don't trust any Thai with all the bullshit I've seen. Then the rest of the staff, and the girls. Girls will usually follow a mamasan. So if a good mamasan brings her girls then that's good. I would imagine the rent would be insanely high, anywhere near Walking St. You've got to put in the time in the bar yourself. Every night. Just look at all the other bars or gogos owned by farang, the owner is in there almost every night, for a good amount of time. Then the BiB, don't know how much the payoff is, but you better pay or you end up in prison and will pay more.

 

I have no clue as to running a business but this is sound advice.

 

This guy also has good pointers:

 

http://lulu-superstar.blogspot.com/

 

I would never do any business in Thailand without consulting a professional attorney based there, to make sure everything is in place and my investments protected.

 

Just from reading the various complaints here from BM's about their experiences in bars and go go's, I think one of the most important and obvious things is to find a good mama-san and staff to run the business. A good mamasan will have a good stable of girls, a bad one will be sure to 'inspire' complaints commonly found on PA (stuffed check bin, pushy servers/girls, BWA/bar girlz with attitude, etc.). The key is to find that good mamasan, how they find and hire these without a lot of prior connections in Thailand I have no idea. I doubt they have classified ads for these things.

[pubstud]

To each his own but I can hardly think of anything I'd dislike to do more with my life than own a bar in Thailand. For it to work you have to be on deck as much as possible, drinking and entertaining your regular customers, so chronic alcoholism is as serious occupational hazard. Then the sleeze you must deal with - the corrupt cops, the lying scheming bargals and their pimp Thai boyfriends. Then if you do everything right and make it a success the Thais get pissed and try to fuck you up and scuttle your business. If you have a Thai wife and start to monkey around with any of the go-go gals then she gets pissed and puts some weed in your room and phones the cops; or she pours shampoo or the bathroom floor so you slip on your ass and end up in hospital. Nah, think I'll give it a miss...

[andrew]

I'm thinking about buying a bar and relocating to Patts.

Wrong succession. Go there first, strike up useful contacts, get ropes amongst Thais, collect as much info as it possible.. It won't take long to realize how difficult and thankless and dodgy this occupation is.

[randomuser]

It's hard to say, how long would be the life expectancy for an average beer bar in Pattaya under the same management and ownership. Two years? Three years?

 

But, if we are talking about the newcomers, it's presumably not more than one year, even less. Right now, around my location on Soi Buakhao, I've seen lot of bar owners giving up during the last year. Some of them couldn't run the business even more than 3 months.

 

The most common mistakes they made include:

 

1. No attractive ladies or no ladies available at all;

 

2. Trying to set up or offer something too original, like cocktail lounge, exotic beverages or food etc;

 

3. Bad location, especially if there were no bars before and/or around;

 

4. Dreaming too much about regular customers and/or their own friends;

 

5. Family and/or financial matters.

 

First of all, this is Pattaya and nobody is coming to sit in your bar for a drink only. If a farang is looking for a beer, he's looking for ladies' company altogether. Of course, not for sex always, but you couldn't underestimate this part of your business.

 

Secondly, try to set up your bar into the mainstream. Don't make anything too original, especially if you are a newcomer. Yes, if you are living here more than three years, you can try something different, but even in this case, don't go too far from the common.

 

Location is very important indeed. You have to be very cautious establishing a bar in place where previously was a laundry service and no bars exist around.

 

Regular customers are like fertilizer for every business. But how and why they are coming? If your bar is outside from the main entertainment area, only the local people are your hope. How many potential customers are living around? And, again, don't dream too much about your friends from your country, especially if you have only a bar and no accommodation to offer.

 

Last but not least, the family matters. As a rule, you are going to make the bar business together with your Thai wife/girlfriend, aren't you? If there appears the slightest misunderstanding or mistrust between you and your consort, you are lost.

 

Bottom line: expect no profit for the first year.

 

 

More info found here...

 

 

http://lulu-superstar.blogspot.com/

[osiboy]

dont do it !!,....... simples ,..... you answered your own question at the start........."why are so many for sale?", ive had a few businesses in thailand , ... i turned 2 around in Phuket, they were bars, i was eventually 'tucked up' by a thai partner , i now have a spa / beauty salon, only needed to invest £1,500 , and though it does'nt make much of a profit , it keeps the wife occupied and gives us a home too, i can only advise that you take your time , go and rent first to live in pattaya for as long as is needed, many places i know for @ 5000b pm and they're good value 7000 with a motorbike !, but ,as you may have seen this advise before, NEVER INVEST MORE THAN YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOOSE , .... this is great advise, so if you are determined to invest get a figure in your head first , but dont expect to make money, unless you have a unique idea its very hard to make a profit without some good "thai connections".......whatever you do , chok dee !

[osiboy]

It's hard to say, how long would be the life expectancy for an average beer bar in Pattaya under the same management and ownership. Two years? Three years?

 

But, if we are talking about the newcomers, it's presumably not more than one year, even less. Right now, around my location on Soi Buakhao, I've seen lot of bar owners giving up during the last year. Some of them couldn't run the business even more than 3 months.

 

The most common mistakes they made include:

 

1. No attractive ladies or no ladies available at all;

 

2. Trying to set up or offer something too original, like cocktail lounge, exotic beverages or food etc;

 

3. Bad location, especially if there were no bars before and/or around;

 

4. Dreaming too much about regular customers and/or their own friends;

 

5. Family and/or financial matters.

 

First of all, this is Pattaya and nobody is coming to sit in your bar for a drink only. If a farang is looking for a beer, he's looking for ladies' company altogether. Of course, not for sex always, but you couldn't underestimate this part of your business.

 

Secondly, try to set up your bar into the mainstream. Don't make anything too original, especially if you are a newcomer. Yes, if you are living here more than three years, you can try something different, but even in this case, don't go too far from the common.

 

Location is very important indeed. You have to be very cautious establishing a bar in place where previously was a laundry service and no bars exist around.

 

Regular customers are like fertilizer for every business. But how and why they are coming? If your bar is outside from the main entertainment area, only the local people are your hope. How many potential customers are living around? And, again, don't dream too much about your friends from your country, especially if you have only a bar and no accommodation to offer.

 

Last but not least, the family matters. As a rule, you are going to make the bar business together with your Thai wife/girlfriend, aren't you? If there appears the slightest misunderstanding or mistrust between you and your consort, you are lost.

 

Bottom line: expect no profit for the first year.

 

 

More info found here...

 

 

http://lulu-superstar.blogspot.com/

this is great advise,.......... DONT DO IT !, is basically the answer , thailand is not a good place to invest , any fall out with family or the natives and you loose ,....period !

[osiboy]

Thanks for all the replies - answers to some of your questions as follows:

 

1. I do know a ferang that owns a go go bar on WS, he currently pays himself 50,000B per month and still makes a profit after all his other expenses. I do not know this person that well, so I do not know if what he is telling me is BS.

 

2. I have spent a lot of time in the go go bars (strictly for research purposes only) and it appears to me that you have to be there at all times to ensure the staff are working and that the customers are happy - same same my country (but different - TIT).

 

3. I do not have any Thai friends, or friends in Patts - got the idea from a go go girl that I know. She has just opened up a bar, thanks to her sponsor - when I say thanks to her sponsor, this is a bot off topic but I'll explain.

 

He met her earlier this year. Moved her into his condo and began sponsoring. Sadly for him, she used to tell her friends that she had to go to Monkey House (gaol) every time he visited - I think you all know whats coming. They split up a few weeks back and she bought this bar on the strength of it - and yes she was still working at the go go bar when he was not in Thailand. I feel sorry for the guy (an ozzie) - but they did win the Tour de France, and Casey Moaner won in the USA (Moto GP) yesterday.

 

I'm a big believer in tam dee dai dee, tham chua dai chua (you do good deeds, good deeds come back to you - you do bad deeds, bad deeds come back to you) so lets hope the universal balance is restored and the poor guy gets a tick in the win coloumn soon.

 

4. I've never run a bar, but I have run my own business.

 

5. I don't know any BIB's, or officials.

 

 

I really need to hear from ferangs that run their own bars and can give me useful tips on start up costs, ongoing costs, BIB payments, average utility costs etc etc.....

 

So far, from what I've read I'm very much errrrrrring on the side of caution.

for an existing gg bar start up costs will not be too big , they usually come with all fix/fit , ..as far as i can remember when i had a thai partner in my Phuket biz the biggest cost would have been the work/business/company permit , but it was so corrupt there , i got it for cash at about 10% of the cost, should have been about 300,000B, ....... this is why you need thai contacts , this was 10 years ago tho , so,,. depending on the size of the bar and location , as far as i know BIB payments for gg bars start @ 10,000b pm +(or was it 5?}, but thats only from one owner, you only need to ask one yourself , .......if you have 2m B + To invest i think i can give you a garanteed return on your investment , and you can do it anywhere ...honest!!,.....if i had 2m now i would do it too as you can do it wherever u like ,.. do you have a thai g/f or wife ? where are you living now ? uk ?